My struggle on the Bible's beliefs about homosexuality

PeaceByJesus

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Nope!

Perhaps you should re-read them!

"Community Rules
All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules. In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against its theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic."

Source

The same rule is in place for the Non-Denom area, btw.

Non-Denom is not a Fundamentalist!

As of right now, you don't have a leg to stand on.

And I'm also sorry, but the scriptures are very clear on just what position God says about this issue.

Sorry.

God Bless

Till all are one.
So considering the manner of reasoning we have seen thus far, why do you think the poster should see any contradiction with the rule forbidding posters debating issues or teaching against the theology of this Fundamentalist Christian faith group, and him saying such heresies or nonsense as,

1. "No committed relationships are a problem. Except for children too young to make good decisions on sex" (in response to the question," "sex between lesbians in a committed relationship get a pass?).

2. "Paul failed to treat people as he himself would wish to be treated" (in response to the question, "was Paul wrong or have I been guilty of misinterpreting those verses pertaining to homosexuality?").

3. "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. So, God does not see genders. People do see genders and they dream up all kinds of rules.. (in response to the question, So "do you believe lesbianism is condoned? Yes or No?").

4. "Jesus did not get married or have children....He only sanctioned being single."

?
 
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PeaceByJesus

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I agree it has been ignored for ages. I am sorry for making
your "damnable" claim a difficult one. It may be too liberal
to quote so much scripture.

1. In everything, then,
2. do to others as you would have them do to you.
3. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.
4. Enter through the narrow gate.

1. Apply this to everything
2. How to handle all situations with all others
3. Why this is the foundation under every other scripture
4. What will be the results?


Four parts set in a variety of scripture by different authors:
You may imagine this somehow sanctions homosexual unions and the abrogating of positional/functions distinctions btwn male and female, but your argument is just as bankrupt as before. Since, as patiently explained and ignored, the 1st great commandment comes before the 2nd, and provides the revelation which determines just how you should want yourself treated, and thus how to treat others.

And which means, among other things, condemning what God condemns, our own sins and those of others, including homosexual relations, while seeking the salvation of sinners.

But why waste time with you when you do not even belong on this forum, and continue to manifest you are not fit for meaningful debate? Are you here to provoke others with your absurd statements and get the page count up?
 
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SkyWriting

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You may imagine this somehow sanctions homosexual unions and the abrogating of positional/functions distinctions btwn male and females, but it is just as bankrupt as before. Since, as patiently explained and ignored, the 1st great commandment comes before the 2nd, and provides the revelation which determines just how you should want yourself treated, and thus how to treat others.

And which means, among other things, condemning what God condemns, our own sins and those of others, including homosexual relations, while seeking the salvation of sinners.

But why waste time with you when you do not even belong on this forum, and continue to manifest you are not fit for meaningful debate? Are you here to provoke others with your absurd statements and get the page count up?
No, my goal is to provide others with the foundation that scripture provides.
It remains consistent in all threads.

1. In everything, then,
2. do to others as you would have them do to you.
3. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.
4. Enter through the narrow gate.

1. Apply this to everything
2. How to handle all situations with all others
3. Why this is the foundation under every other scripture
4. What will be the results?

This removes all gender bias and discrimination from Christianity.
I do this becasue I love God first.
You can;t get any more fundamental than For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses,
but
grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.


I encourage people to ignore my conclusions and hold fast
to the scripture provided.
 
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SkyWriting

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But why waste time with you when you do not even belong on this forum, and continue to manifest you are not fit for meaningful debate?

Your conclusion is worthy of debate.
 
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PeaceByJesus

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No, my goal is to provide others with the foundation that scripture provides.
It remains consistent in all threads.

1. In everything, then,
2. do to others as you would have them do to you.
3. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.
4. Enter through the narrow gate.

1. Apply this to everything
2. How to handle all situations with all others
3. Why this is the foundation under every other scripture
4. What will be the results?

This removes all gender bias and discrimination from Christianity.
I do this becasue I love God first.
You can;t get any more fundamental than For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses,
but
grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.


I encourage people to ignore my conclusions and hold fast
to the scripture provided.
Which is just as delusional as before. Love for God means believing what He teaches, which, among other teachings you deny, very clearly teaches positional/functional distinctions btwn male and female, and all your vain isolationist eisegesis cannot change it.

Bye.
 
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DeaconDean

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So considering the manner of reasoning we have seen thus far, why do you think the poster should see any contradiction with the rule forbidding posters debating issues or teaching against the theology of this Fundamentalist Christian faith group, and him saying such heresies or nonsense as,

1. "No committed relationships are a problem. Except for children too young to make good decisions on sex" (in response to the question," "sex between lesbians in a committed relationship get a pass?).

2. "Paul failed to treat people as he himself would wish to be treated" (in response to the question, "was Paul wrong or have I been guilty of misinterpreting those verses pertaining to homosexuality?").

3. "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. So, God does not see genders. People do see genders and they dream up all kinds of rules.. (in response to the question, So "do you believe lesbianism is condoned? Yes or No?").

4. "Jesus did not get married or have children....He only sanctioned being single."

?

In the first place, the thread was directed at "homosexual" activity.

That I deal with by showing scriptures.

I did not specifically use the passage from Leviticus, but I did start with the New Testament.

Secondly, rule site-wide state "address the post, not the poster".

That is what I did.

Thirdly, I stated the position of the rules for this area, Non-Denominational by definition is not and cannot be called be confused or tied to Fundamentalism.

Fourthly, only one believe do some Non-Denoms share with Fundamentalists:

A Fundamentalist Christian is a born again believer in Lord Jesus Christ who:
  1. Maintains an immovable allegiance to the inerrant, infallible, and verbally Inspired Bible;
  2. Believes whatever the Bible says is so;
  3. Judges all things by the Bible, and is judged only by the Bible, aka - "Sola Scriptura";
Source

"We believe that Bible is the word of God, inspired by the Holy Spirit, and the only authoritative and infallible rule of Christian faith and practice."

Non-Denominational Statement of Purpose

By rule, by truth, by self-identification, that poster claims for themselves to be : "non-Denominational", and therefore, by rule, not allowed to debate here.

In the fifth place, I addressed the OP, not that poster. That poster, than attacked me and what the scripture says.

I have done everything "by-the-book".

Since they obviously chose to disregard what scripture says in regards to "homosexuality", a reminder of the rules was needed.

Now if their view of scripture is called into question, then start another thread.

Otherwise, I have provided the correct exegesis of the scriptures.

I have fulfilled my duty in regards to the topic of this thread.

And besides, it is also clear fo0r their viewpoint, how they pick and choose, and interpret scripture to suit their viewpoint, any further debate would be useless, even futile. So why bother?

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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DeaconDean

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I encourage people to ignore my conclusions and hold fast to the scripture provided.


upload_2018-1-31_6-43-57.jpeg


Which is very, very funny considering the scriptures I provided prove you wrong.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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SkyWriting

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DeaconDean

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It took me decades to see the meaning.
I don't expect any quick change.

Reminder:

"Community Rules
All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules. In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against its theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic."

Statement of Purpose for the Fundamentalist Area

Non-Denom is not Fundamentalist.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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DeaconDean

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There is one "golden rule" that is being forgotten here.

"For I am the Lord, I change not;" -Mal. 3:6 (KJV)

If, God does not change, and IF you actually believe that the scriptures are God's Word for man, as penned by the Prophets and Apostles, under inspiration of the Holy Spirit. the Mal. 3:6 must apply to His word as well.

If what Paul wrote nearly 2000 years meant what it did then, it still means the same thing today. As I have shown.

So who changed?

If it was God, He lies and so does His word. Thus making His word and Him, unreliable.

That only leaves us one avenue to pursue.

Not only has man changed, but man is changing His word as well.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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SkyWriting

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Reminder:

"Community Rules
All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules. In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against its theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic."

Statement of Purpose for the Fundamentalist Area

Non-Denom is not Fundamentalist.

God Bless

Till all are one.


"Thus a Fundamentalist can be from quite a few Protestant denominations,
even nondenominational. " - Statement of Purpose for the Fundamentalist Area

I hvae no poerblm wtih ppoele not being
albe to see puacitalrr wettrin mesegsas
in suctrpire. Peploe ee waht tehy wsih to
see. Me incueldd.
 
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SkyWriting

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There is one "golden rule" that is being forgotten here.

Golden Rule

Jump to: TopicalLibrarySubtopics

Matthew 7:12
Therefore all things whatever you would that men should do to you, do you even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
(Topicalbible.org)

Luke 6:31
And as you would that men should do to you, do you also to them likewise.

Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

James 2:8
If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you do well:

Matthew 7:1-5
Judge not, that you be not judged.

Leviticus 19:18
You shall not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.

Mark 12:31
And the second is like, namely this, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
 
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SkyWriting

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If what Paul wrote nearly 2000 years meant what it did then, it still means the same thing today. As I have shown.

Paul was the "chief of all sinners" and said he was "the worst."

His advice was/is subject to examination by all Bereans of faith.

10 As soon as night had fallen, the brothers sent Paul and Silas away to Berea. On arriving there, they went into the Jewish synagogue.
11 Now the Bereans were more noble-minded than the Thessalonians,for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if these teachings were true.
 
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DeaconDean

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"Thus a Fundamentalist can be from quite a few Protestant denominations,
even nondenominational. " - Statement of Purpose for the Fundamentalist Area

I hvae no poerblm wtih ppoele not being
albe to see puacitalrr wettrin mesegsas
in suctrpire. Peploe ee waht tehy wsih to
see. Me incueldd.

A Fundamentalist Christian is a born again believer in Lord Jesus Christ who:
  1. Maintains an immovable allegiance to the inerrant, infallible, and verbally Inspired Bible;
  2. Believes whatever the Bible says is so;
  3. Judges all things by the Bible, and is judged only by the Bible, aka - "Sola Scriptura";
  4. Affirms the foundational truths of the historic Christian Faith:
    a. The doctrine of the Trinity
    b. The incarnation, virgin birth, substitutionary atonement, bodily resurrection, ascension into Heaven, and Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ
    c. The new birth through regeneration of the Holy Spirit
    d. The resurrection of saints to life eternal
    e. The resurrection of the ungodly to final judgment and eternal death
    f. The fellowship of the saints, who are the body of Christ;
  5. Practices fidelity to that faith, and endeavors to preach it to every creature;
  6. Exposes and separates from all ecclesiastical denial of that Faith, compromise with error, and apostasy from the Truth; and
  7. Earnestly contends for the Faith once delivered.
  8. Therefore, Fundamentalism is a militant orthodoxy with a soulwinning zeal. While Fundamentalists may differ on certain interpretations of Scripture, we join in unity of heart and common purpose for the defense of the Faith and the preaching of the Gospel, without compromise or division.
- Statement of Purpose for the Fundamentalist Area

Lets compare.

A few things to know about non-denominational Christians:
  • A non-denominational Christian church is one that is autonomous and not under a central authority (i.e. governing board, Magesterium, Patriarchs) on matters of doctrine, ordination, policy or discipline. They may, however, be part of an association to share resources.
  • We believe that Bible is the word of God, inspired by the Holy Spirit, and the only authoritative and infallible rule of Christian faith and practice.
  • We believe in the Triune nature of God (Trinitarianism) and therefore the topic of non-Trinitarianism may not be discussed in this forum. Please discuss this topic in the Controversial Theology forum.
  • We believe the only true basis of Christian fellowship is Christ's (agape) love, which is greater than differences one may possess, and without which we have no right to claim ourselves Christians.
  • Salvation is by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ who died for our sins and rose again, providing eternal redemption to those who believe. It is not by our works or works of the law. (Eph 2: 8-9)
  • Since salvation is by grace, promotion of the doctrine of salvation by works and Saturday (seventh-day) worship is not allowed. Please discuss these topics in Sabbath and The Law forum.
-Non-Denomionational Statement of Purpose

I see quite a few differences.

Most especially here:

"compromise with error"

And here:

"and the only authoritative and infallible rule of Christian faith and practice."

It is very clear what the scriptures, and God's position is on this topic. And clearly, one of us, does not follow this.

And it isn't me!

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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SkyWriting

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A Fundamentalist Christian is a born again believer in Lord Jesus Christ who:
  1. Maintains an immovable allegiance to the inerrant, infallible, and verbally Inspired Bible;
  2. Believes whatever the Bible says is so;
  3. Judges all things by the Bible, and is judged only by the Bible, aka - "Sola Scriptura";
  4. Affirms the foundational truths of the historic Christian Faith:
    a. The doctrine of the Trinity
    b. The incarnation, virgin birth, substitutionary atonement, bodily resurrection, ascension into Heaven, and Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ
    c. The new birth through regeneration of the Holy Spirit
    d. The resurrection of saints to life eternal
    e. The resurrection of the ungodly to final judgment and eternal death
    f. The fellowship of the saints, who are the body of Christ;
  5. Practices fidelity to that faith, and endeavors to preach it to every creature;
  6. Exposes and separates from all ecclesiastical denial of that Faith, compromise with error, and apostasy from the Truth; and
  7. Earnestly contends for the Faith once delivered.
  8. Therefore, Fundamentalism is a militant orthodoxy with a soulwinning zeal. While Fundamentalists may differ on certain interpretations of Scripture, we join in unity of heart and common purpose for the defense of the Faith and the preaching of the Gospel, without compromise or division.
- Statement of Purpose for the Fundamentalist Area

Lets compare.

A few things to know about non-denominational Christians:
  • A non-denominational Christian church is one that is autonomous and not under a central authority (i.e. governing board, Magesterium, Patriarchs) on matters of doctrine, ordination, policy or discipline. They may, however, be part of an association to share resources.
  • We believe that Bible is the word of God, inspired by the Holy Spirit, and the only authoritative and infallible rule of Christian faith and practice.
  • We believe in the Triune nature of God (Trinitarianism) and therefore the topic of non-Trinitarianism may not be discussed in this forum. Please discuss this topic in the Controversial Theology forum.
  • We believe the only true basis of Christian fellowship is Christ's (agape) love, which is greater than differences one may possess, and without which we have no right to claim ourselves Christians.
  • Salvation is by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ who died for our sins and rose again, providing eternal redemption to those who believe. It is not by our works or works of the law. (Eph 2: 8-9)
  • Since salvation is by grace, promotion of the doctrine of salvation by works and Saturday (seventh-day) worship is not allowed. Please discuss these topics in Sabbath and The Law forum.
-Non-Denomionational Statement of Purpose

I see quite a few differences.

Most especially here:

"compromise with error"

And here:

"and the only authoritative and infallible rule of Christian faith and practice."

It is very clear what the scriptures, and God's position is on this topic. And clearly, one of us, does not follow this.

And it isn't me!

God Bless

Till all are one.

So you are under the illusion that anyone who has a different
view from yours is excluded. I am familiar with that goal.
 
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DeaconDean

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Paul was the "chief of all sinners" and said he was "the worst."

His advice was/is subject to examination by all Bereans of faith.

10 As soon as night had fallen, the brothers sent Paul and Silas away to Berea. On arriving there, they went into the Jewish synagogue.
11 Now the Bereans were more noble-minded than the Thessalonians,for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if these teachings were true.

And the scriptures say:

"Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;" -Rom. 1:24-28 (KJV)

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind," -1 Cor. 6:9 (KJV)

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." -Lev. 18:22 (KJV)

And Paul also wrote:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" -2 Tim. 3:16 (KJV)

That is what your, the scriptures "chief sinner" said.

Isaiah said:

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" -Isa. 5:20 (KJV)

And what is really scary here, is what is being promoted which again, goes against what Paul told Timothy was to come:

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." 2 Tim. 4:2-4 (KJV)

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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DeaconDean

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So you are under the illusion that anyone who has a different
view from yours is excluded. I am familiar with that goal.

No, I have provided scripture to back my point of which, you clearly say is irrelevant.

Yet here in this area, scripture is #1 priority.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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DeaconDean

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10 Things Everyone Should Know About a Christian View of Homosexuality

By Glenn Stanton

1. All humans are simultaneously sinful and loved.
All people, regardless of their story, are deeply and unconditionally loved by God, each created with profound dignity and worth, not one more than another. This is more than mere religious happy talk — it's truth whether one is gay, straight, or otherwise. But, all people are also stricken with a terminal illness: sin. Everyone. No exceptions and to the same degree. Our sin demands our repentance and needs forgiveness, and God's love and grace are where we find both. This is basic Christianity and the great equalizer of all people.

2. Jesus wasn't silent on homosexuality.
Some claim Jesus never said anything about homosexuality and therefore is neutral on the topic. Not true. Jesus was unequivocal in saying that to understand marriage and the sexual union, we must go back to the beginning and see how God created humanity and to what end. (See Matthew 19 and Mark 10.) Jesus holds up the creation story in Genesis not as a quaint Sunday school lesson, but as authoritative — reminding us that God created each of us male and female, each for the other. And the sexual union that God created and ordains is for husband and wife to come together in physical union, one flesh.

3. There is only one option.
Both Jesus and all of scripture approve of no other sexual union than that between a husband and wife. This is the uncontested historical teaching of Judaism and Christianity, and it is not something that true Christianity is free to adjust with the times. Yes, concubines and multiple wives are found in the Bible, but doesn't make them "biblical." In fact, they violate the Genesis narrative Christ points us to.

4. Male and female complete God's image on earth.
It is not just mere "traditionalism" that makes sex-distinct marriage the norm for Christians. It is a common grace God has given to all peoples at all times that is rooted in deeper theological reasons. The first chapter of the Jewish and Christian scriptures tells us that humanity is uniquely created to show forth the image of God in the world — to make visible the invisible. God does this not just in generic, androgynous humanity, but through two very similar but distinct types of humans: male and female. They are human universals, not cultural constructs.

When God said that it "is not good that the man be alone" (Genesis 2:18) he wasn't lamenting that Adam didn't have a buddy or was just lonely. He was saying that the male could not really know himself as male without a human "other" who equally shared his humanity but was meaningfully distinct right down to every bit of her DNA. The same is true for her in Adam. Taoists understand this in that the Yin cannot be Yin without its corresponding and contrasting Yang. In both Jewish and Christian belief, both male and female become fully human in their correspondence and contrast with one another. This does not happen solely in marriage, but it does happen most profoundly and mysteriously in marriage.

5. Sex is indeed about babies.

It is a new and culturally peculiar idea that human sexuality is all about intimacy and pleasure, but not necessarily babies. Babies and reproduction matter. And sure, while not every male/female sexual engagement is toward the end of procreation — intimacy and pleasure matter as well — it has been the overwhelming norm and desire in nearly all marital relationships throughout time. That some couples are infertile either by age or incapability does not diminish or challenge this reality. Infertility is the vast exception for male/female couples. It is the fact of same-sex unions, a human cul-de-sac. Heterosexual union reaches into and creates the next generation. To establish a sexual relationship without any interest in or openness to babies is contrary to God's intention for such relationships.

6. Children have a right to a mother and father.

Every person ever born can track his origin to a mother and a father. There are no exceptions, including those artificially produced. This was the first command God gave to the first two humans: to come together and bring forth the coming generations of new divine image-bearers. Nearly all cultures in all places in the world at all historical times hold as fundamental that every child should be loved and raised by a mother and father. The UN Convention on the Rights of the Child recognizes a mother and father as a basic right of every child.

7. Same-sex attraction is not a sin.

To be human is to have a disordered sexuality. You do. I do. Everyone does. We all have some manner of sexual drive that compels us to disobey God's design for sexuality. But, while temptation is universal, it's different from sin. Scripture tells us that Jesus was tempted in all ways as we are, but did not sin (see Hebrews 4:15). Sexual sin is giving in to that desire in either mind or body. Faithful Christian discipleship cannot avoid temptation, but it strives to resist and master it with God's help. Doing so is not sin, but obedience and dependence upon Christ.

Many are indeed same-sex attracted, but live obediently within a Christian sexual ethic. It can be difficult, as it is for heterosexuals who are required to live in celibacy. Christianity requires that we each subjugate our sexual (and many other) desires to our faith commitment — and countless same-sex attracted believers do so willingly and joyfully.

8. Sexual intimacy is not a right.
Every Christian has limitations placed on his sexuality. For married Christians, it is exclusive to one's spouse. For single, engaged, and divorced Christians, it is abstinence, no exceptions. Is it unfair for so many to be forced into a life that cannot know the wonder and beauty of physical intimacy just because marriage is not an option for them? Is it fair for a Christian to be stuck in a loveless marriage? Christians have long understood that fairness is not really the question. Sex is not a right, but a gift — and the giver knows what is best for us.

9. Rewriting God's rules is never an option.
One of the marks of a Christian is his or her desire to be obedient to Christ's teaching. Certainly most of us would like to rewrite the scriptures to make life easier. I would change where Christ says that lust is the same as doing the deed. Christianity is a demanding faith. The scriptures define and change us, not the other way around. A biblical sexual ethic does not, indeed cannot, change with the times.

10. People are more than their sexuality.
To identify people by their sexuality is to reduce people to their sexuality. Every individual is so much more. A person's inherent and undeniable value is rooted in his membership in humanity, not his particularity, sexual or otherwise. To advocate for extending rights to someone based in particular and occasionally mutable desires, relationships, and behaviors — as important as they might be to the individual — is actually a violation of the principle of universal human rights.

Source

What is also important, is to go back and re-state one point:

2. Jesus wasn't silent on homosexuality.
Some claim Jesus never said anything about homosexuality and therefore is neutral on the topic. Not true. Jesus was unequivocal in saying that to understand marriage and the sexual union, we must go back to the beginning and see how God created humanity and to what end. (See Matthew 19 and Mark 10.) Jesus holds up the creation story in Genesis not as a quaint Sunday school lesson, but as authoritative — reminding us that God created each of us male and female, each for the other. And the sexual union that God created and ordains is for husband and wife to come together in physical union, one flesh.

Nuff said.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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