My struggle on the Bible's beliefs about homosexuality

[redleghunter]

The problem is the sin nature. Most people who have not accepted Lord Jesus as their Lord and Savior do not recognize that they are sinners because they think they are good.They do not acknowledge the sin nature inherited through Adam, and they do what is right in their own eyes.
Proverbs 30:12 There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.

Jesus did say the Holy Spirit would convict us of sin:

John 16: New King James Version (NKJV)

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

 

[Almost there]

I have struggled in how the Bible views homosexuality. I struggle to find or believe it is a sin. I feel as if I were to believe that homosexuality is wrong, then I am truly am homophobic. However, if I were to believe that there are people who are gay who wants to change but cannot because of any beliefs or interpretations of the Bible. Can gay people truly change? While I do have this struggle, I do or did believe at one time that it was a sin. It is as if some people pick on or make fun of homosexuals. Should I struggle with this? I know it is strange, but if someone were to ask me why they should live and love as they please.

They are in love, as far as husbands or wives go. Then how can that be wrong. If I were to believe that homosexuality is a sin, then how should or would explain why to him or her? These questions are just about homosexuality for now. I am not a homosexual, but I find homosexuality should not be about punishing people or believing it is about vile affections, but it clearly states that in the Bible. However, was Paul wrong or have I been guilty of misinterpreting those verses pertaining to homosexuality?

The spirit and the flesh are constantly battling each other. Each of us has different battles, though. For homosexuals, the battle regardins sex is just more obvious. Sin is sin. Practicing homosexuals are no more "worse" than heterosexuals that sleep around or live with someone out of wedlock. One sin is just more "acceptable" to our culture.

Personally, I accept neither as "A-ok". Sin is sin.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Regarding - sex gender according to God - and I quote:
A 46, XY disorder of sex development (DSD) is a condition in which an individual with one X chromosome and one Y chromosome in each cell , the pattern normally found in males, have genitalia that is not clearly male or female.
Ambiguous genitalia
Sexual development in children with disorders of sex differentiation
With so many stages of sex development, there are a lot of opportunities for a fetus to take a path that not typical for a boy or a girl. When an atypical path of development is taken, the resulting condition is known as a “disorder of sexual development.”
There are several ways this can happen:

• • Some disorders are genetic (chromosome variations).
  • Some are present at birth (congenital) but not genetic.
  • Some are variations in psychosocial development.
  • DSDs can also be idiopathic, meaning they have no identifiable cause.

Disorders of Sexual Differentiation | Symptoms and Causes | Boston Children's Hospital

Instead of the myth that all men are created men and all women are women and must be mated with the opposite gender, I'm going to toss out that bagage and go with Children's Hospital on this one. I think they are more hands-on experienced with real situations.

Regarding - sex gender according to God - and I quote:

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Genesis 1:27)

And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. (Genesis 2:23-24)

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. (Genesis 1:31)

And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. (Matthew 19:4-6)

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5:12)

For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. (Romans 8:20-21)

Thus what God created was not genetic abnormalities, and a creature subject to death, but which were a result of the Fall, as are perverse desires in scope or degree, as said. Moreover, what makes a person male or female, and the degree of complementarity btwn them goes beyond genitalia (even brains are different).

The fact that in very rare instances people are born with genetic abnormalities or more commonly, perverse desires, in no way contradicts how God created them, and while adaptations can be made in the case of deformities in order to accomplish proper behavior, having perverse desires - whether by nature or nurture (and the latter of which i think can result in actual changes in the brain) - does not justify acting them out.

And of course, the tactic of using extreme exceptions to the norm in attempting to justify acting immoral is no more valid than using rape to justify the whole practice of abortion. While there can be a few challenges cases as regards genitalia, and which also can relate to the bathroom issue, we are dealing with the reality that male and female are distinctively different yet complimentary by design, and gender dysphoria as well as same-sex attraction is a disorder, to be dealt with compassionately but in no way sanctioning the disorder, any more than with those who feel sexually attracted to animals over humans.

So I'm going to toss out your baggage and go with God on this one. I think He has more hands-on experience with creating man and authority in defining morality than Children's Hospital. Or you.

 

[redleghunter]

And of course, the tactic of using extreme exceptions to the norm in attempting to justify acting immoral is no more valid than using rape to justify the whole practice of abortion.

A sage observation. It is the same as saying since robberies occur why have laws against stealing.

 

[Goatee]

And genetic abnormalities too?
When an atypical path of development is taken, the resulting condition is known as a “disorder of sexual development.”
There are several ways this can happen:

• Some disorders are genetic (chromosome variations).
• Some are present at birth (congenital) but not genetic.
• Some are variations in psychosocial development.

Disorders of Sexual Differentiation | Symptoms and Causes | Boston Children's Hospital

Covers for satan twisting someones mind.

 

[SkyWriting]

Covers for satan twisting someones mind.

From Boston Children's Hospital?
You think they are into that?
"U.S. News & World Report has named us the number-one pediatric hospital in the United States."
"In the John F. Enders Pediatric Research Laboratories, named for the Boston Children's researcher and Nobel Prize recipient who cultured the polio and measles viruses, hundreds of laboratory researchers and physician investigators search for answers to some of the most perplexing diseases."

 

[SkyWriting]

Thus what God created was not genetic abnormalities,

But that's what we have now...so we can't recreate the Garden. We are LOCKED out of the Garden.

God now provides us with sex chromosome disorders.
In humans this may refer to:

• 45, X, also known as Turner syndrome
• 45,X/46,XY mosaicism
• 46, XX/XY
• 47, XXX, also known as Triple X syndrome and trisomy X
• 47, XXY, also known as Klinefelter syndrome
• 47, XYY, has normal phenotype
• 48, XXXX
• 48, XXXY
• 48, XXYY
• 49, XXXXY
• 49, XXXXX
• XX gonadal dysgenesis
• XY gonadal dysgenesis
• XX male syndrome

Human Chromosomal Abnormalities: Sex Chromosome Abnormalities

When a Person Is Neither XX nor XY, Male nor Female, Q&A with Geneticist Eric Vilain

 

[SkyWriting]

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Genesis 1:27)

And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. (Genesis 2:23-24)

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. (Genesis 1:31)

And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. (Matthew 19:4-6)

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5:12)

Yes, that was before sin altered the entire cosmos.
That is not no more.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Paul failed to treat people as he himself would wish to be treated.

What Does the Bible Say That Paul Ignores About How To Treat Your Neighbor?

Just how do imagine that? The second great commandment presupposes a moral foundation upon which yuou can judge correctly just what you should have done unto you.

And thus the second great commandment comes after the first, and to love God with all your being means to love the revelation of Himself and His will, and thus love His word, and which means you will love what He loves and hate what He hates. And which mean that what you would done to you will be in accordance with that, which means you want God's word to be upheld above all, and will want to be corrected when wrong and helped to to be right, and even be condemned rather than offend God and lead others astray, which is part of what Paul did.

And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. (Ephesians 5:11)

Open rebuke is better than secret love. (Proverbs 27:5)

Before I was afflicted I went astray: but now have I kept thy word. (Psalms 119:67)

It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Corinthians 5:1-5)

Thus if Paul had not condemned what God only condemns and nowhere sanctions, then Paul would be guilty of disobeying the commandments of love of God and of others, in that order and what this entails.

You for your part, are guilty of condemning the just and thus condemning God by charging Paul with teaching contrary to what God teaches love for others entails.

He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the Lord. (Proverbs 17:15)

 

[Goatee]

Transgender hype is mostly modern. Kids get it from their peers. TV, internet etc.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Yes, that was before sin altered the entire cosmos.
That is not no more.

That is absurd. The Lord Jesus Himself specified that it was opposite genders that God joined in marriage, and also restricted the laws on divorce based on Genesis, and the nature of man has not changed since then. Also, the later laws against same sex relations and those with animals go back to Genesis.

Moreover, the only thing that changed was that of more restrictions, that of forbidding sexual relations btwn near kin, as a result of the effects of the Fall.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Transgender hype is mostly modern. Kids get it from their peers. TV, internet etc.

Which can be very profitable.
School Agrees to Pay $800,000 After Transgender Student Born Female Is Denied Use of Boys' Bathrooms

 

[PeaceByJesus]

I have struggled in how the Bible views homosexuality. I struggle to find or believe it is a sin. I feel as if I were to believe that homosexuality is wrong, then I am truly am homophobic. However, if I were to believe that there are people who are gay who wants to change but cannot because of any beliefs or interpretations of the Bible. Can gay people truly change? While I do have this struggle, I do or did believe at one time that it was a sin. It is as if some people pick on or make fun of homosexuals. Should I struggle with this? I know it is strange, but if someone were to ask me why they should live and love as they please.

They are in love, as far as husbands or wives go. Then how can that be wrong. If I were to believe that homosexuality is a sin, then how should or would explain why to him or her? These questions are just about homosexuality for now. I am not a homosexual, but I find homosexuality should not be about punishing people or believing it is about vile affections, but it clearly states that in the Bible. However, was Paul wrong or have I been guilty of misinterpreting those verses pertaining to homosexuality?

The "love sanctions all" is nowhere sanctioned by God as regards sexual partners. You might as well argue that marriage is superfluous since all that matters in love is some mutual affection, and that even "open marriages" should be sanctioned. Again, one may love their pet goat and see mutual feelings, but that will not make it right. God is your creator, who made us sexual beings, and has a higher purpose than simply sexual unions.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

But that's what we have now...so we can't recreate the Garden. We are LOCKED out of the Garden.

God now provides us with sex chromosome disorders.
In humans this may refer to:

• 45, X, also known as Turner syndrome
• 45,X/46,XY mosaicism
• 46, XX/XY
• 47, XXX, also known as Triple X syndrome and trisomy X
• 47, XXY, also known as Klinefelter syndrome
• 47, XYY, has normal phenotype
• 48, XXXX
• 48, XXXY
• 48, XXYY
• 49, XXXXY
• 49, XXXXX
• XX gonadal dysgenesis
• XY gonadal dysgenesis
• XX male syndrome

Human Chromosomal Abnormalities: Sex Chromosome Abnormalities

When a Person Is Neither XX nor XY, Male nor Female, Q&A with Geneticist Eric Vilain

Wrong again. God does not provide us with sex chromosome disorders, except as a punitive sentence for man's sins, as is the case with HIV, in which about 80% of new cases are btwn MSM (at great cost to treat). We both benefit as well as suffer from the actions of others, as God did not any man an island to himself.

Moreover, that there is debate as to what the basis is for determining whether one is either male or female simply does not justify asserting there is neither.

You may seek to blame God, or justify homosexual relations based upon the effects of the Fall, but what it does is manifests your reliance upon sophistry.

Why not just come right out and admit you do not believe the Bible is the word of God (I means, making the inspired writer Paul guilty of sin based on what he wrote is already manifesting this) and that the prohibitions against homosexual relations are not valid, and thus the condemnation of it is wrong, but that acceptance should be promoted. What's to hide?

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

The sins noted were promiscuity. In the O.T. gay men were noted for that but women
did not obviously sleep around with other women, so were not listed as a problem.

Do you really believe that women did not sleep with other women in the OT. Solomon had seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines who all were human and had normal (and perhaps abnormal) sexual appetites, drives, and proclivities. How do you think they dealt with that?

 

[SkyWriting]

Do you really believe that women did not sleep with other women in the OT. Solomon had seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines who all were human and had normal (and perhaps abnormal) sexual appetites, drives, and proclivities. How do you think they dealt with that?

What I believe is that all scripture writers used obvious examples of sinful behavior that were know to be detrimental to society. Men got called out for having extramarital affairs and promiscuous homosexual behavior. But the reprimands are intended to point to promiscuity and any sex outside of a committed relationship. For this reason women did not get called out for having same sex relations simply becasue women are were more discrete and caused virtually no damage to other women. As compared to men anyway.

The lack of condemnation for lesbians points out that the problem noted was not same sex relations but promiscuity and fornication.

 

[SkyWriting]

Wrong again. God does not provide us with sex chromosome disorders, except as a punitive sentence for man's sins,

God does not punish sinful behavior. You must live with it as is.
That is not punishment.
If God did punish sinners the world would be a just place
and we would be happy living here.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

What I believe is that all scripture writers used obvious examples of sinful behavior that were know to be detrimental to society. Men got called out for having extramarital affairs and promiscuous homosexual behavior. But the reprimands are intended to point to promiscuity and any sex outside of a committed relationship. For this reason women did not get called out for having same sex relations simply becasue women are were more discrete and caused virtually no damage to other women. As compared to men anyway.

The lack of condemnation for lesbians points out that the problem noted was not same sex relations but promiscuity and fornication.

Hmm, that is interesting. Help me be clear on your p.o.v.
Are you saying that sex between lesbians in a committed relationship get a pass?

 

[SkyWriting]

Moreover, that there is debate as to what the basis is for determining whether one is either male or female simply does not justify asserting there is neither.

Oh, I would never say such a thing. But I read it and would like to believe it.

27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Not my assertion.

Joel 2:29
"Even on the male and female servants I will pour out My Spirit in those days.

Romans 3:22
And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no distinction,

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commandments is what matters.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free, and we were all given one Spirit to drink.

Galatians 3:26
You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

28"It will come about after this That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind;
And your sons and daughters will prophesy,

 

[SkyWriting]

The spirit and the flesh are constantly battling each other. Each of us has different battles, though. For homosexuals, the battle regardins sex is just more obvious. Sin is sin. Practicing homosexuals are no more "worse" than heterosexuals that sleep around or live with someone out of wedlock.

Actually, the old testament is not blatant clear on premarital sex.
But promiscuity is the problem.