My struggle on the Bible's beliefs about homosexuality

[SkyWriting]

Although Paul brought up homosexual practices as his focal point, the real issue is how their hearts turned away from God, they stop giving thanks to God nor believed on Him, relied on theirselves for knowledge, worshipped theirselves, and THEN gave theirselves up to their passions.There was a process, same goes for today. God gave them to their reprobate mind, not because they were abominations, but because they made theirselves to the point of being abominable, they in essence became their own god, conscious is seared, lovers of themselves, void of Holy Spirit. There is no only god besides God. And those that are agreement and support that, are also as guilty.

He was NOT even mentioning sexual orientation.
Paul was referring to promiscuous people having
sex with multiple partners and even multiple genders.
I agree the heart was the problem causing this.

But people not having multiple partners are not included.

 

[redleghunter]

I have to say the below quotes are quite disturbing given the facts already presented:

Jesus did not get married or have children. So he did not sanction any union of any type.

Irrelevant. Jesus as truly man and truly God the Second Person of the Trinity Son of God made the following confirmation on YHWH's design for marriage:

Matthew 19: NKJV
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,' 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

Big bold red letters there. This was God's design from the beginning (Genesis 2:24).

Concrete, concise and no room for ambiguity. That Jesus did not marry or have children has no bearing on the words above as they are God breathed.

Given that He lived a perfect life, He only sanctioned being single.

No he did not.

I don't think he caused anyone to be married, nor promoted it, nor encouraged anyone to. Along with His disiples, He was the greatest discourager of all time. I don't think any person in history has caused more people to remain single.

He confirmed 'what' marriage is (see red bold above). Peter was married and continued to be married. Jesus' followers were both single and married. Your point is invalid.

The next most known situation would be Adam and Eve. That was sanctioned by God and that didn't work out well for the human species condition at all.

Before the fall we have Genesis 2:24 on the union of one man and one woman. That Adam and Eve disobeyed God has nothing to do with YHWH establishing the union of one man and one woman as His creative design.

 

[redleghunter]

My wife teaches toddlers. Some of them are gay and get ostracized by their peers.
It is not a worshiping of creation. Your analysis fails.

How does she know toddlers are homosexual?

 

[SkyWriting]

You try ask the gay man, to give up putting their heart into finding a partner or living out their lifestyles to pursue Christ, and see how much they truly have "love" in their hearts, how much they literally bank on their identity like people bank on food to survive. Some will try to make peace with sin, try to compromise, try in their heart to plead with God to bypass it, like "pleasseee Lord, let me not suffer", some will just be rebellious, hate God, defend it to the death. They will try to find loopholes to life. There is no loophole, but does not mean we cannot overcome, that's where Jesus' death and resurrection comes in.

Stop bringing sexual orientation into the problem.
The problem is fornication, both different and same gender.

 

[Almost there]

My wife teaches toddlers. Some of them are gay and get ostracized by their peers.

They are pre-pubescent. They are not sexual yet.

 

[SkyWriting]

How does she know toddlers are homosexual?

They are pre-pubescent. They are not sexual yet.

Some other teachers are also gay and she has had decades
of experience with both gay co-workers and children.
Are you thinking a gay teacher would not recognise a gay child?
Grown ups and women can spot very subtle personality
traits. My wife being Special-Ed is practiced in the most
subtitle observations.

Oh.....sorry.....the clearer answer is they are born that way
and it's not a decision.

 

[SkyWriting]

Before the fall we have Genesis 2:24 on the union of one man and one woman. That Adam and Eve disobeyed God has nothing to do with YHWH establishing the union of one man and one woman as His creative design.

I was playing devils advocate on that one.

 

[DeaconDean]

My wife teaches toddlers. Some of them are gay and get ostracized by their peers.
It is not a worshiping of creation. Your analysis fails.

According to you, not according to scriptures.

"Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen." -Rom. 1:25 (KJV)

"οἵτινες μετήλλαξαν τὴν ἀλήθειαν τοῦ θεοῦ ἐν τῷ ψεύδει, καὶ ἐσεβάσθησαν καὶ ἐλάτρευσαν τῇ κτίσει παρὰ τὸν κτίσαντα, ὅς ἐστιν εὐλογητὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας: ἀμήν." -Rom. 1:25 (GNT)

"ἐσεβάσθησαν"

"adoration, to feel dread of a thing; to venerate, adore, worship"

The New Analytical Greek Lexicon, Wesley J. Perschbacher, Editor, Hendrickson Publishing, Peabody, Mass., 01962, Copyright 1990, "σεβάζομαι", p. 367

That is what the apostle Paul said, they worshiped and served the creation rather then the Creator.

Now you may argue with me, but you cannot argue with the Word of God.

And technically, since you identify as a "Non-Denominational", you are not allowed to debate any answer given you here. You may in your area, but not here.

As a matter of fact, when in the same sentence Paul also uses "εὐλογητὸς" (blessed) it means that God alone is "worthy of being worshipped".

"εὐλογητὸς"

"worthy of praise or blessing, blessed"

Ibid, p. 181

John Gill comments saying:

"Romans 1:25

Who changed the truth of God into a lie
Not the truth of the Gospel, which they were unacquainted with; but that which might be known of God as true, and was known of them by the light of nature; or the true God himself, whom they "changed into a lie"; by ascribing to false deities, which were lying vanities, those things which were known of God; and by worshipping them instead of him: for they

worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator;
or "above him" or "against him", in opposition to him, or "besides him", others along with him; or neglecting him, and not worshipping him at all; which is aggravated in that what they worshipped was a creature, either of their own, or of God's making, and whom they neglected was the Creator of them:

who is blessed for ever, Amen;
is blessed in himself, and the fountain of all blessedness to his creatures; which is so glaring a truth, that everyone ought to say and set his "Amen" to it."

Source

Sorry, in light of scripture, you argument falls apart.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[SkyWriting]

Meanwhile, why have you not answered my questions?

I do not recall that thread. But I'll check into it.

Senate Candidate Expects His Wife to Fix Him Dinner Every Night

Edit: I did just post a response there.

 

[SkyWriting]

According to you, not according to scriptures.

My wife is an expert in irregular child development.

Scripture only covers adult normal-physiological diseases.

 

[SkyWriting]

And technically, since you identify as a "Non-Denominational", you are not allowed to debate any answer given you here. You may in your area, but not here.

Perhaps the forum rules have been updated since you last read them.

 

[DeaconDean]

Perhaps the forum rules have been updated since you last read them.

Nope!

Perhaps you should re-read them!

"Community Rules
All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules. In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against its theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic."

Source

The same rule is in place for the Non-Denom area, btw.

Non-Denom is not a Fundamentalist!

As of right now, you don't have a leg to stand on.

And I'm also sorry, but the scriptures are very clear on just what position God says about this issue.

Sorry.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[redleghunter]

Nope!

Perhaps you should re-read them!

"Community Rules
All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules. In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against its theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic."

Source

The same rule is in place for the Non-Denom area, btw.

Non-Denom is not a Fundamentalist!

As of right now, you don't have a leg to stand on.

And I'm also sorry, but the scriptures are very clear on just what position God says about this issue.

Sorry.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Thanks for the reminder. I could not find the fellowship section of this faith group. If you have a link, I will add it to my bookmark to remind folks in the future as well.

Thanks

 

[PeaceByJesus]

I do not recall that thread. But I'll check into it.

Edit: I did just post a response there.

Where? The question was,

Why not just come right out and admit you do not believe the Bible is the word of God (I means, making the inspired writer Paul guilty of sin based on what he wrote is already manifesting this) and that the prohibitions against homosexual relations are not valid, and thus the condemnation of it is wrong, but that acceptance should be promoted. What's to hide?

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Enter through the narrow gate instead:

So if you who are evil know how to give good gifts
to your children, how much more will your Father
in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!
In everything, then,
do to others as you would have them do to you.
For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.
Enter through the narrow gate.

If it fails the equal standing test, it fails.
Enter through the narrow gate.

Which is that of taking another text in isolation in order to ascribe a meaning that if foreign to Scripture in teaching what "do to others as you would have them do to you" means, as was explained and ignored, except by this damnable wresting of Scripture. (cf. 2 Peter 3:16)

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Yes,
it negates the positional distinction between genders.
As well as 20 or so other supporting passages.
Let me preface....some of my neighbors are women:
What Does the Bible Say About How To Treat Your Female Neighbors?

According to His word, and not by isolationist eisegesis of it.

So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. (Ephesians 5:28)

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. (1 Corinthians 11:3)

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing [as a normative role manifesting true faith], if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. (1 Timothy 2:11-15)

 

[PeaceByJesus]

God only partially or randomly deals with sin in this world?
Nope. That idea fails.
God sent His Son to handle all sin, and Jesus did just that.
There are no left-over sins scattered about that Jesus misses
and the Father mops up.

You are contradicting yourself in contradiction to Scripture and logic, as is your norm. It was your charge that "God does not punish sinful behavior. You must live with it as is. That is not punishment.
If God did punish sinners the world would be a just place," and being shown that God does punish sinful behavior, but not to the effect that the world is a just place, you next assert that Jesus has handled all sin, which is simply not logical reasoning, since the issue was God not punishing sin in the way you required in order for this world to be a just place.

I think you are wasting some of our time with your nonsensical reasoning and assertions.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Jesus did not get married or have children. So he did not sanction any union of any type. .

Which is simply more perverse illogical reasoning. Choosing not to be married is not saying the martial union is not sanctioned, unless the latter is taught as the reason for the former. But instead, the Lord actually affirmed marriage, and specified it was opposite genders whom God put together, and strongly restricted the putting asunder of the bond.

Thus your continued attempts to invoke Scripture for support continually results in your sophistry being exposed.

 

[lismore]

I have struggled in how the Bible views homosexuality.

Hello. You have to also remember how much God loves homosexual people. Romans 5:8 tells us that while we were still sinners Christ died for us. God puts a spotlight on the sin, but he loves the person. God Bless You

 

[SkyWriting]

Which is that of taking another text in isolation in order to ascribe a meaning that if foreign to Scripture in teaching what "do to others as you would have them do to you" means, as was explained and ignored, except by this damnable wresting of Scripture. (cf. 2 Peter 3:16)

I agree it has been ignored for ages. I am sorry for making
your "damnable" claim a difficult one. It may be too liberal
to quote so much scripture.

1. In everything, then,
2. do to others as you would have them do to you.
3. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.
4. Enter through the narrow gate.

1. Apply this to everything
2. How to handle all situations with all others
3. Why this is the foundation under every other scripture
4. What will be the results?

Four parts set in a variety of scripture by different authors:

Matthew 22:39
And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Romans 13:9
For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Leviticus 19:16-18
You shall not go around as a slanderer among your people, and you shall not stand up against the life of your neighbor: I am the Lord. “You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him. You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.

Luke 10:29
But he, desiring to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

Leviticus 19:13
“You shall not oppress your neighbor or rob him. The wages of a hired servant shall not remain with you all night until the morning.

Luke 10:27
And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.”

Mark 12:31
The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Luke 6:31
And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.

Galatians 6:10
So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith.

Psalm 15:1-3
A Psalm of David. O Lord, who shall sojourn in your tent? Who shall dwell on your holy hill? He who walks blamelessly and does what is right and speaks truth in his heart; who does not slander with his tongue and does no evil to his neighbor, nor takes up a reproach against his friend;

Romans 13:10
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Matthew 19:19
Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Romans 15:2
Let each of us please his neighbor for his good, to build him up.

Galatians 5:14
For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Proverbs 14:21
Whoever despises his neighbor is a sinner, but blessed is he who is generous to the poor.

John 15:13
Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.

James 1:27
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

Romans 15:1
We who are strong have an obligation to bear with the failings of the weak, and not to please ourselves.

Philippians 2:4
Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.

Luke 6:38
Give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”

1 John 3:17
But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him?

Galatians 6:2
Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

Matthew 25:35-40
For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ ...

Proverbs 19:17
Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.

Acts 20:35
In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

Proverbs 22:9
Whoever has a bountiful eye will be blessed, for he shares his bread with the poor.

James 2:14-17
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

John 15:12
“This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

Matthew 5:42
Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

Romans 12:13
Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality.

Proverbs 3:27
Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due, when it is in your power to do it.

Luke 3:10-11
And the crowds asked him, “What then shall we do?” And he answered them, “Whoever has two tunics is to share with him who has none, and whoever has food is to do likewise.”

Luke 12:33-34
Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

1 Timothy 5:8
But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Romans 12:10
Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor.

James 2:8
If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

Proverbs 3:29
Do not plan evil against your neighbor, who dwells trustingly beside you.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Zechariah 8:17
Do not devise evil in your hearts against one another, and love no false oath, for all these things I hate, declares the Lord.”

Proverbs 3:28
Do not say to your neighbor, “Go, and come again, tomorrow I will give it”—when you have it with you.

Leviticus 19:18
You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.