God Protects The Believer During The Great Tribulation

[Riberra]

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

that verse says that the dragon is angry at people who kept God as their savoir -that refused to serve the dragon

How do you derive from that verse that
no one from the beginning of the GT would not take 60 seconds and cry out to God and ask for forgiveness of their sins and repent and ask Jesus to be their Lord and savoir?

Where do you find something in the whole Revelation 12 Chapter saying that a group of believers have been taken out of the Earth -BEFORE- that Satan was cast out of Heaven ?

 

[seventysevens]

Where do you find something in the whole Revelation 12 Chapter saying that a group of believers have been taken out of the Earth -BEFORE- that Satan was cast out of Heaven ?

I did not say anything about Rev 12 until you just brought it up

 

[Riberra]

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

that verse says that the dragon is angry at people who kept God as their savoir -that refused to serve the dragon

How do you derive from that verse that
no one after the start of the GT would not take 60 seconds and cry out to God and ask for forgiveness of their sins and repent and ask Jesus to be their Lord and savoir?

DO NOT UNDERSTAND THAT I SAID I REFER TO PEOPLE WHO ARE BORN AGAIN BEFORE THE GT BEGINS

You said that will be sinners who will convert during the TRIBULATION.

 

[seventysevens]

You said that will be sinners who will convert during the TRIBULATION.

How do you derive from that verse in Rev12
that no one after the start of the GT would not take 60 seconds and cry out to God and ask for forgiveness of their sins and repent and ask Jesus to be their Lord and savoir?

 

[Riberra]

How do you derive from that verse in Rev12
that no one after the start of the GT would not take 60 seconds and cry out to God and ask for forgiveness of their sins and repent and ask Jesus to be their Lord and savoir?

Read Revelation 9:20 who will happen many months before that Satan will be Cast out of Heaven and you will see that the Tribulation will not convert the SINNERS.

Revelation 9:20
20 And the rest of mankind, who were not killed with these plagues, repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and the idols of gold, and of silver, and of brass, and of stone, and of wood; which can neither see, nor hear, nor walk: 21 and they repented not of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

 

[seventysevens]

Read Revelation 9:20 who will happen many months before that Satan will be Cast out of Heaven and you will see that the Tribulation will not convert the SINNERS.

Revelation 9:20
20 And the rest of mankind, who were not killed with these plagues, repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and the idols of gold, and of silver, and of brass, and of stone, and of wood; which can neither see, nor hear, nor walk: 21 and they repented not of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

and the rest of the men.......
Enduring to the end would apply to anyone in the GT time period , do you think God would only seal 144000 Jews and kill all the rest ? and if everyone repented of their sin would not be killed - so how do you determine who will not repent during the GT and determine that God would not listen to them if they repented of their sin when in fact many times in revelation Jesus says outright to repent of their sins and if they repent they will be saved even though they will have to endure the GT till the end because they are already in it

It says this after a lot of the harsh things happen during this time ...then people who refuse to repent will not repent , some people will realize they need God and others will be so hardened of heart that out of rebellion even though they know what is happening will continue in their rebellion but that does not say that from the start of the GT that no one would repent

What do you think the purpose of the Two Witnesses is for if no one could possibly repent after the GT begins ?

 

[Riberra]

What do you think the purpose of the Two Witnesses is for if no one could possibly repent after the GT begins ?

They don't want to repent ....

The work of the 2 Two Witnesses will only make the sinners more angry...

Revelation 11:7-10
10 And they that dwell on the earth rejoice over them, and make merry; and they shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwell on the earth.

 

[seventysevens]

They don't want to repent ....

How can you say that absolutely no one will repent , that is an awful lot to assume about , that is like saying that you know someone else's heart that you never met and claim they will not repent , I'm sure that many will not repent but to say no one will - is at best far-fetched

The work of the 2 Two Witnesses will only make the sinners more angry...

yea they have hot cattle prod poking at people saying take that and that and you drop and give me 50 one handed pushups
That does not even sound reasonable that God would send Two witnesses to prophecy for no purpose , it far more reasonable that they are telling sinners to repent and what will happen if they don't , so God would know some people will repent or he would not send them at all , I know many will not repent but God is the one who say he will leave the 99 sheep to go seek after the 1 lost sheep and bring him back
Then there are 144000 , they have a purpose , if all they would do is hang out with the rest of folks they would not need a special seal to protect them

 

[Riberra]

How can you say that absolutely no one will repent , that is an awful lot to assume about , that is like saying that you know someone else's heart that you never met and claim they will not repent , I'm sure that many will not repent but to say no one will - is at best far-fetched

If Revelation 9:20-21 who is what Jesus said will happen -that the sinners will NOT REPENT [during the tribulation] whatever plagues are send to them- ...then NOTHING will convince you that the Tribulation will not produce new believers.

 

[seventysevens]

If Revelation 9:20-21 who is what Jesus said will happen -that the sinners will NOT REPENT whatever plagues are send to them- ...then NOTHING will convince you that the Tribulation will not produce new believers.

Revelation 9
20 And the rest of the men which were not killed...
Point has been made a few times now that God sends Two witnesses and 144000 special sealed Jews FOR A PURPOSE
You refuse to address these with a real level of sensibility
SEEMS THAT YOU WONT ACCEPT THE IDEA THAT JESUS SAY THAT HE LOVES ALL PEOPLE
God does these things for a reason -not just to fill words on a page , you are making assumptions that are not backed up by scripture

 

[Riberra]

Revelation 9
20 And the rest of the men which were not killed...
Point has been made a few times now that God sends Two witnesses and 144000 special sealed Jews FOR A PURPOSE
You refuse to address these with a real level of sensibility
SEEMS THAT YOU WONT ACCEPT THE IDEA THAT JESUS SAY THAT HE LOVES ALL PEOPLE
God does these things for a reason -not just to fill words on a page , you are making assumptions that are not backed up by scripture

The offer to repent and turn to God will still be open ...

but obviously the sinners during the tribulation will not repent as per Revelation 9:20-21.

 

[seventysevens]

The offer to repent and turn to God will be still open ....but obviously they will not repent as per Revelation 9:20-21.

Seems likely that at the beginning of the GT when the bad things begin to happen there will be some people who will wise up and repent , then after they have verses say that ...the rest of them , no specifics given .... yes the farther on into the GT happens the less likely any more would repent as , if they hadn't yet they not likely to do so ..but that does not say in any way that at any time from the beginning of the GT no one would repent , if no one at all would do so - God will know ahead of time as he knows everyone's heart and if no one would repent he would not go through the process of sending Two Witnesses and 144000 specially marked Jews
In Sodom God said he would spare the cities if he found like 10 people worth saving and said he found no such righteous , If God is sending these special Two Witnesses and 144000 , simple reasoning indicates God knows some people will repent

 

[Blade]

You know where I get stuck is. Well Jesus told me "Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you." He also said to me "greater is He that is in you then He that's in the world". The 12.. came back saying even the demons are subject unto us.

Now when have read Rev.. after Chapter 4.. I dont see the CHURCH talked about until? I also read "And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations." Now if this is just.. in this world I have no problem. Even still there is no demon no fallen angel that will EVER have power over me. God is not going to take Christ or His sweet sweet Holy Spirit out of me. So.. as long as I am on this earth.. Satan can not have ANY power over me. That means that AntiChrist has to bow to the GOD IN YOU. He has no choice. Every demon ever fallen angel can not stand against ONE believer.

Yet some really believe he has more power than Christ in you. Did not Jesus say.. I am in the Father and the Father in me and I am in you. Christ said He and the Father are one. Does not this as He said make US ONE with Him? "Caught up" will happen. Your my personal belief about that is NOT His word nor what will happen. There will be a voice shout trump dead will rise and we will then go with them to meet Christ not on this earth but in the air to be with Him forever. Just as the angels said just after He went up. He will come back the same way, to get His Church.

The word says there is something/He that restrains the lawless one. SOMETHING right now has so much POWER that Satan can not since JESUS left come out in the open. Sin will again reach the Father and the time of the Gentiles will be over. The restrainer will let the lawless one free. Something that had more power then the lawless one is gone. So then the way it was.. will be again. Satan will be out in the open and as it was before Christ there will be lying wonders.

Jesus said He was coming back to Get us. As some said.. there is no "PRE RAPTURE" Nor is there "MID or POST RAPTURE". But.. there is a "CAUGHT UP". A prophet once said he didnt follow the "pre trib". Yet said if it does happen. I am ready now. That is a very wise man. See its written. Just WHEN is not. So.. I am ready now. This is the day He is coming. Man I have no clue whats going to happen 1 min from now for me. So.. I watch TODAY! If you are not..you don't believe He will not make you go. You will get the desire what you believe. You BELIEVE you will stay..you will be here.

Like its wrong to believe to watch now. As they did. Paul never told them in his 1st letter.. guys let it go.. it will never happen in your life time.. its at the end.. so COMFORT one another with these words? HUH? No.. He is coming..Paul then tells them how.. so comfort one another with these words. HE IS COMING! For me no pre no mid no post. He is coming. I am ready NOW! There is no time with Him. Its now.. this is what I believe. Sorry.. I am no writer.. I try..forgive me

 

[Riberra]

In Sodom God said he would spare the cities if he found like 10 people worth saving and said he found no such righteous , If God is sending these special Two Witnesses and 144000 , simple reasoning indicates God knows some people will repent

The possibility to repent will be there.....but obviously THe Bible tell us that the sinners will NOT WANT to repent.
Revelation 9:20-21.

 

[Riberra]

You know where I get stuck is. Well Jesus told me "Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you." He also said to me "greater is He that is in you then He that's in the world". The 12.. came back saying even the demons are subject unto us.

Now when have read Rev.. after Chapter 4.. I dont see the CHURCH talked about until? I also read "And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations." Now if this is just.. in this world I have no problem. Even still there is no demon no fallen angel that will EVER have power over me. God is not going to take Christ or His sweet sweet Holy Spirit out of me. So.. as long as I am on this earth.. Satan can not have ANY power over me. That means that AntiChrist has to bow to the GOD IN YOU. He has no choice. Every demon ever fallen angel can not stand against ONE believer.

Yet some really believe he has more power than Christ in you.

Thus if you belong to God you have more power than him[Antichrist]and you will be able to overcome him when he will be revealed ...no need for a supposed rapture before the Tribulation....

Here what God say:
Revelation 12:11
11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony; and they loved not their life even unto death.

Revelation 17:8
Those whose names are written in the Book of Life will NOT WORSHIP THE BEAST NOR TAKE HIS MARK.


Matthew 16:25
If you try to hang on to your life, you will lose it. But if you give up your life for my sake, you will save it.

Matthew 24:13
13 But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.

 

[DavidPT]

Yes I will

You have had since before Thanksgiving Day to find one scripture that says outright the Born again believers who are alive Before the GT begins will Have to go through it ;
but yet even now you Fail to find even one scripture that says that

All the scriptures that say outright we are not going to suffer wrath , but yet you insist that we will , while you can make silly statements you simply cannot prove what you insist to be true - you follow a falsehood , you follow a false mentality thinking you must suffer and God will protect you through the GT , you make these assumptions simply because some people have convinced you that you are required to do something that God has said you won't be doing
If you had any way to prove what you say - you would have shown it by now , so you Claim I can't do it but you can't prove that claim to be true

All this time since Thanksgiving and you still cannot find the scripture that proves that we have to go through the GT

You just don't see that I have waited this long to prove the point that what you claim about having to go through the GT is false - giving you much time to research and find the truth - but since you are dedicated to a false teaching and brainwashed you won't spend any of this time to seek the Facts of Gods word , because you closed your mind to the possibility you won't look for the facts of truth - the same reason that the Jews used to crucify Jesus - the same reason why some people will go through the GT

The GT is not the wrath of God though. God's wrath comes after the time of the GT.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

satan of course is not God, and that this verse indicates the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath. This great wrath leads to the GT. The GT is the wrath of satan.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

This says----and went to make war with the remnant of her seed---apparently connected with the following----power was given unto him to continue forty and two months(Revelation 13:5)-----And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them(Revelation 13:7)

BTW, do you not see what Revelation 12:17 plainly says? and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Do you not see that it says?---and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Who besides a member of His body could possibly have the testimony of Jesus Christ? An unbelieving Jew perhaps? I don't think so. An atheist perhaps? I don't think so. One can't be a part of His body and not be part of the NT church. Yet another passage that proves the NT church is still present on the earth during the GT.

 

[seventysevens]

The possibility to repent will be there.....but obviously THe Bible tell us that the sinners will NOT WANT to repent.
Revelation 9:20-21.

You can believe that if you want to , I disagree scripture does not indicate that no one repented , after the 144000 are named -9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

They repented and scripture does not say that they repented before the GT as no reference to any believers before the GT begins are even mentioned -to say they are from before the GT is simply an assumption not supported by scripture , and to say the believers in Rev20 are from before the GT began would again be nothing more than an assumption , all the assumption to satisfy the idea that ALL born again believers MUST go through the GT to satisfy the notion that -that is how ALL believers must be tested is again nothing more than assumption that goes against what the scripture teaches
There are many many scriptures that have to be tossed out to comply with what you believe in order for things to happen as you believe it will
as it is called The assumed assumption doctrine

 

[Riberra]

You can believe that if you want to , I disagree scripture does not indicate that no one repented , after the 144000 are named -9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

The problem for your pre -tribulation rapture doctrine ,is that all those who are part of the group that John saw in Heaven are DEAD BELIEVERS...Revelation 7:9-16

 

[seventysevens]

The GT is not the wrath of God though. God's wrath comes after the time of the GT.

That is your first error because it definitely IS the beginning of Gods wrath , wrath is Anger and God is angry with people who have rejected Christ , so God sends satan to be the false
messiah so that those who reject Christ believe the false messiah is God , just as in the manner that Jesus spoke of a woman about to give birth , birth pangs come and then increase in the intensity of pain and then come more often and continues that way until the birth is achieved
but you can believe pink elephants dance in circles if you want , it matters not to me what you believe

 

[seventysevens]

The problem for your pre -tribulation rapture doctrine ,is that all those who are part of the group that John saw in Heaven are DEAD BELIEVERS...

Dead people don't get raptured
only the living
like the Two witnesses