God Protects The Believer During The Great Tribulation

[Riberra]

You should try reading the bible , you might learn something
Jesus the pre-trib guru - yep

If you think that Jesus have promised a pre-trib rapture He would have not said

Matthew 24:13
13 But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.

 

[Oldmantook]

I never use a term of "tribulation saints" that is where you make assumptions as foolish as what you say now

Did I say that you use the term??
It is a fact that pretribbers by necessity have to believe in tribulation saints (those who come to faith during the tribulation) since they believe that the church is raptured prior to the pretribulation. Who is making foolish assumptions as that is a fact.

 

[seventysevens]

The abomination who caused the DESOLATION was when the ROMANS destroyed Jerusalem and the TEMPLE and killed millions of Jews in 70 AD.

as another shall take place since Jesus has not yet returned - you simply don't understand that 95% of Matt24 is Jesus answering the question asked of him pertaining to His -Jesus return to earth . AFTER Jesus said the temple will be destroyed He answered the question of ..... "what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
Obviously this means Jesus return to earth since he was on earth when he told this to his disciples
Matt24 verse 4 on through the chapter Jesus tells a descriptive detail answer to that question. You should read it again

 

[Riberra]

as another shall take place since Jesus has not yet returned - you simply don't understand that 95% of Matt24 is Jesus answering the question asked of him pertaining to His -Jesus return to earth . AFTER Jesus said the temple will be destroyed He answered the question of ..... "what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
Obviously this means Jesus return to earth since he was on earth when he told this to his disciples
Matt24 verse 4 on through the chapter Jesus tells a descriptive detail answer to that question. You should read it again

Yes Jesus will return on the Earth AFTER THE TRIBULATION and Jesus said also that those who will endure unto the End [which is His Coming]will be saved.

Matthew 24:13
13 But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.


Where do you find the text saying that Jesus will take the believers out of the Earth BEFORE the Tribulation ?Show us the verses and the Chapter where Jesus say that.

 

[Truth7t7]

How then these verses will refer to?
1 Thessalonians 4:13
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words.
The Day of the Lord
5 Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief. For you are all children of light, children of the day. We are not of the night or of the darkness. So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, are drunk at night. But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation. For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him. Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing.

1 Corinthians 15:51
Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.

Jude 14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,

If there is no pre trib rapture, why will God caught us up His children in the air? Then who do you think the saints referred to in Jude 14 that will come with the Lord? If there is no pre trib, why He has to come back with the saints? Does that mean that saints will meet the Lord Jesus Christ in the air and go back then and step on in Mt. Olives?

I do believe what Daniel prophesied in Daniel 9
The Seventy Weeks
“Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place. Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

God has 1 week (7 years) to deal with the people of Israel. Not including the church age believers who are mentioned in the bible as saints. Thus, I believe that while God deals with the Israel for 7 years, the saints will be having judgment before the Bema seat of Christ.
2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

And I believe that the judgment seat of Christ is different from the White Throne judgment.

It is OK that we may have different views. What is important still is our relationship with God.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 is the second advent and "Last Day" Resurrection of the believer, as Jesus Christ taught in John 6:40

Jesus Christ will return with the angels in the final judgment, eternal life, eternal kingdom.

Matthew 25:31-46

Verses 31-32 Jesus returns with the angels, nations gathered before the throne.

Verse 34 The eternal kingdom presented to the righteous.

Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the eternal lake of fire.

Verse 46 The righteous obtain eternal life, and enter the eternal kingdom in verse 34.

You Quote 1 Corinthians 15:51, as you disregard 1 Corinthians 15:54, this event takes place as "Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory" THE END!

Those who claim a Pre-Trib rapture, do no more than "Misrepresent" the second coming and "Last Day" resurrection as this rapture.

The Ole Bait And Switch Trick!

There will be no Pre-Trib rapture of the believer, a false teaching invented by John N. Darby 1830's, and propagated by C.I. Scofield's 1909 reference bible.

Jesus Christ Is Lord

Truth7t7

 

[seventysevens]

Yes Jesus will return on the Earth AFTER THE TRIBULATION and Jesus said also that those who will endure unto the End [which is His Coming]will be saved.

Matthew 24:13
13 But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.
Where do you find the text saying that Jesus will take the believers out of the Earth BEFORE the Tribulation ?Show us the verses and the Chapter where Jesus say that.

I will be giving that exactly , but as I have asked multiple times for any post trib supporter to provide one scripture that declares that a Born-again Christian who is living on earth immediately before the Great Trib begins will be required to go through the Great trib - that's all I ask- if you think we are required to go through this testing it should be easy to find scripture that states it outright- IF you find that scripture, then I can change my mind - Can you handle this Challenge ?

The Great Trib is designed for people who have rejected Jesus - same reason why the (instead of Christ) AC is sent BY GOD Himself as in satan declaring that he is God - so that those who reject the truth Jesus will believe a lie -satan

The only reason you will see any scripture of martyrs during the Great trib is because they were not Born again believers before the Great Trib began or they were people who professed they were and yet still fell victim into a sinful life that is not worthy of God -this is why scripture speak to Christians in churches to repent of their sinful deeds and sinful lifestyles; this is why God tell us to be ready at all times to be worthy and ready because at a moment you think not Jesus cometh

 

[DavidPT]

I will be giving that exactly , but as I have asked multiple times for any post trib supporter to provide one scripture that declares that a Born-again Christian who is living on earth immediately before the Great Trib begins will be required to go through the Great trib - that's all I ask- if you think we are required to go through this testing it should be easy to find scripture that states it outright- IF you find that scripture, then I can change my mind - Can you handle this Challenge ?

The Great Trib is designed for people who have rejected Jesus - same reason why the (instead of Christ) AC is sent BY GOD Himself as in satan declaring that he is God - so that those who reject the truth Jesus will believe a lie -satan

The only reason you will see any scripture of martyrs during the Great trib is because they were not Born again believers before the Great Trib began or they were people who professed they were and yet still fell victim into a sinful life that is not worthy of God -this is why scripture speak to Christians in churches to repent of their sinful deeds and sinful lifestyles; this is why God tell us to be ready at all times to be worthy and ready because at a moment you think not Jesus cometh

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Clearly, until a time and times and the dividing of time, this is meaning the 42 month reign of the beast as per Revelation 13. The text says---and shall wear out the saints of the most High-----and they shall be given into his hand

Daniel 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

This says---and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. Clearly meaning the saints of the most high, the same ones mentioned in verse 25. Pretribbers apparently interpret verse 22 to be meaning-----and judgment was given to those left behind after the rapture of the church who become saints of the most High during the tribulation; and the time came that these same tribulation saints possessed the kingdom. BTW look at what all has to be added to that verse in order for it to agree with Pretrib.

Rather than-----and judgment was given to the church of the most High; and the time came that the church possessed the kingdom.


Not only that, the fact Daniel 7:25 tells us the saints of the most High, the little horn shall wear them out, and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time, this requires they already have to be saints of the most High before these things take place, and that there will obviously be numerous saints of the most High at the time, likely in the millions, and they all somehow becoming saints of the most High after the alleged rapture of the church, this doesn't cut it, thus doesn't
explain it.

 

[seventysevens]

Elementary simple Watson - don't make assumptions that just because you see the word saints that it means a Born-Again Christian that has accepted Jesus gift of eternal life because Jesus died on the cross .

First you must recognize that for thousands of years there were OT saints like Abraham ,Issac , Jacob, Moses , That are not born again Christians , they are Israeli or Jewish saints long before Jesus was born .
Yes in context there is a difference between the Christian Church which began After Jesus came

Notice
Gods words declare that Israel will be reborn as a nation
God will gather the Israeli descendants back to the land of reborn Israel
The false messiah will rule in Israel
the temple will be in Israel
war of Armageddon will be in Israel territory
God brings down enemies of Israel down from the north of Israel
the GT will be centered in Israel -
The Jewish Remanent are in Israel, there are millions right now
The Covenant with be focused on peace and safety of Israel
Covenant broken at 3.5 years then those in Judea -Israel shall flee to the mountains
comprende?
Just assuming you see the word saints as Christians is not considering that the original writing focuses on Israeli/Jewish people and does not state they are born again Christians as the focus of the GT is on Jewish people who profess to belong to God but yet Reject Jesus as messiah , some will convert to accept Jesus during the GT and many will not
Feel free to try again

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Clearly, until a time and times and the dividing of time, this is meaning the 42 month reign of the beast as per Revelation 13. The text says---and shall wear out the saints of the most High-----and they shall be given into his hand
Daniel 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
This says---and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. Clearly meaning the saints of the most high, the same ones mentioned in verse 25. Pretribbers apparently interpret verse 22 to be meaning-----and judgment was given to those left behind after the rapture of the church who become saints of the most High during the tribulation; and the time came that these same tribulation saints possessed the kingdom. BTW look at what all has to be added to that verse in order for it to agree with Pretrib.
Rather than-----and judgment was given to the church of the most High; and the time came that the church possessed the kingdom.
Not only that, the fact Daniel 7:25 tells us the saints of the most High, the little horn shall wear them out, and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time, this requires they already have to be saints of the most High before these things take place, and that there will obviously be numerous saints of the most High at the time, likely in the millions, and they all somehow becoming saints of the most High after the alleged rapture of the church, this doesn't cut it, thus doesn't
explain it.

 

[DavidPT]

Just assuming you see the word saints as Christians is not considering that the original writing focuses on Israeli/Jewish people and does not state they are born again Christians as the focus of the GT is on Jewish people who profess to belong to God but yet Reject Jesus as messiah , some will convert to accept Jesus during the GT and many will not
Feel free to try again

Look at how bizarre your reasoning is here. Those Jews during Jesus' time, and shortly after His time, the ones that converted to Christianity, I doubt that you would claim that this did not then make them part of the church. So that means, assuming you are correct here, some will convert to accept Jesus during the GT, that would make them part of the church the same way it makes any unbelieving Jew part of the church once that unbelieving Jew becomes a believer of Jesus Christ.

And while you are correct about what saints meant prior to the first coming, that doesn't matter though, because in Daniel 7 the saints are clearly meaning a time post the first coming of Christ. That makes them of the church then. Deny it all you want since that's the only way you can supposedly make Pretrib work. It shows you seem to have little interest in what the truth of this actually might be, but seem more interested in you being right no matter what. Maybe it's that pride thing getting in your way that you are always applying to others but not to yourself as well.

 

[seventysevens]

Still you failed - the purpose of the GT is to test those who have rejected Christ - It is Christ who brings on the GT - ever hear of - "ye are not of this world but have been set apart" we are not appointed to suffer wrath - that means literally NOT suffer wrath -
There is a difference between the Church and OT saints
but they ultimately become of the same family of God
Just as there is a difference between the Jews and Gentiles as the Gentiles joined only as a result of the Jews denying Christ that the Gospel of Christ went out to the Gentiles ----if the Jews had not rejected Christ things could have been different result

Jesus sends satan as the fake Christ to cause people who reject Him that shall believe the lie of satan that he is God - It is part of Gods wrath on those who reject Him that he sends the AC/satan pretending to be God

You still cannot find any scripture that says that born-again Christians who are alive before the GT begins will be required to go through it
Your pride is your stumbling point - because you can't find a scripture that shows this ,
you are brainwashed into thinking that Christians must suffer just as those who God has intended to suffer because of the people Reject him

A. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

B. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Look at how bizarre your reasoning is here. Those Jews during Jesus' time, and shortly after His time, the ones that converted to Christianity, I doubt that you would claim that this did not then make them part of the church. So that means, assuming you are correct here, some will convert to accept Jesus during the GT, that would make them part of the church the same way it makes any unbelieving Jew part of the church once that unbelieving Jew becomes a believer of Jesus Christ.

And while you are correct about what saints meant prior to the first coming, that doesn't matter though, because in Daniel 7 the saints are clearly meaning a time post the first coming of Christ. That makes them of the church then. Deny it all you want since that's the only way you can supposedly make Pretrib work. It shows you seem to have little interest in what the truth of this actually might be, but seem more interested in you being right no matter what. Maybe it's that pride thing getting in your way that you are always applying to others but not to yourself as well.

 

[Riberra]

I will be giving that exactly ,

I know before hand that you won't ....

--Everybody can read the whole Matthew 24 Chapter and see by themselve that Jesus have never said that He will take the believers out of the Earth BEFORE the Tribulation.

If it was so He would not have said
Matthew 24:13
13 But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.

Again --->for those of you who have been fooled by false teachers :

Being SAVED does NOT MEAN "being taken out of the Earth before the tribulation."

Being SAVED mean that you will not End into the Lake of Fire like the unrepentant sinners Revelation 20:15.

Revelation 20:15
15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[seventysevens]

Yes I will

You have had since before Thanksgiving Day to find one scripture that says outright the Born again believers who are alive Before the GT begins will Have to go through it ;
but yet even now you Fail to find even one scripture that says that

All the scriptures that say outright we are not going to suffer wrath , but yet you insist that we will , while you can make silly statements you simply cannot prove what you insist to be true - you follow a falsehood , you follow a false mentality thinking you must suffer and God will protect you through the GT , you make these assumptions simply because some people have convinced you that you are required to do something that God has said you won't be doing
If you had any way to prove what you say - you would have shown it by now , so you Claim I can't do it but you can't prove that claim to be true

All this time since Thanksgiving and you still cannot find the scripture that proves that we have to go through the GT

You just don't see that I have waited this long to prove the point that what you claim about having to go through the GT is false - giving you much time to research and find the truth - but since you are dedicated to a false teaching and brainwashed you won't spend any of this time to seek the Facts of Gods word , because you closed your mind to the possibility you won't look for the facts of truth - the same reason that the Jews used to crucify Jesus - the same reason why some people will go through the GT

I know before hand that you won't ....

--Everybody can read the whole Matthew 24 Chapter and see by themselve that Jesus have never said that He will take the believers out of the Earth BEFORE the Tribulation.

If it was so He would not have said
Matthew 24:13
13 But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.

Again --->for those of you who have been fooled by false teachers :

Being SAVED does NOT MEAN "being taken out of the Earth before the tribulation."

Being SAVED mean that you will not End into the Lake of Fire like the unrepentant sinners Revelation 20:15.

Revelation 20:15
15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Riberra]

Yes I will

You have had since before Thanksgiving Day to find one scripture that says outright the Born again believers who are alive Before the GT begins will Have to go through it ;
but yet even now you Fail to find even one scripture that says that

We are not appointed to suffer the Wrath of GOD ....which is to being cast into the lake of Fire.

Revelation 20:15

Now if you don't know what the WRATH OF GOD is about.
Revelation 14:9-12
9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, If any man worshippeth the beast and his image, and receiveth a mark on his forehead, or upon his hand, 10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints, they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

13 And I heard the voice from heaven saying, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from henceforth: yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors; for their works follow with them.

 

[seventysevens]

We are not appointed to suffer the Wrath of GOD ....which is to being cast into the lake of Fire.

Revelation 20:15

You actually think that all the plagues in the book of Revelation is not wrath? You have a LOT to learn
the lake of fire is the end result of Gods wrath -if God simply wanted to instead of his wrath he could just remove people off the planet and toss them into the lake of fire
, but His wrath of showing His Power will be remembered in detail , just as the scars in Jesus body - he could remove them but he keeps them as a reminder of what actually took place

 

[Riberra]

You actually think that all the plagues in the book of Revelation is not wrath? You have a LOT to learn
the lake of fire is the end result of Gods wrath -if God simply wanted to instead of his wrath he could just remove people off the planet and toss them into the lake of fire
, but His wrath of showing His Power will be remembered in detail , just as the scars in Jesus body - he could remove them but he keeps them as a reminder of what actually took place

View attachment 217808 View attachment 217809 View attachment 217810

The WRATH OF GOD will be poured out in the 7 VIALS OF THE WRATH OF GOD
Revelation 16 TO AVENGE THE BLOOD OF THE CHRISTIANS .....READ YOUR BIBLE A LITTLE.

 

[seventysevens]

The WRATH OF GOD will be poured out in the 7 VIALS OF THE WRATH OF GOD
Revelation 16 TO AVENGE THE BLOOD OF THE CHRISTIANS .....READ YOUR BIBLE A LITTLE.

IT ALL STARTS WITH GOD SENDING THE AC TO CAUSE PEOPLE WHO REJECT CHRIST SO THEY WILL BELIEVE A LIE THAT GOD HAS COME TO THEM
READ YOUR BIBLE -IT IS GODS WRATH THAT PUNISHES PEOPLE WHO REJECT CHRIST AND CHOOSE TO LIVE AS THEY WANT TO IN WHATEVER SINFUL MANNER THEY CHOOSE
READ ALL OF THE BIBLE

2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.

8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.

9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.

10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

 

[Riberra]

IT ALL STARTS WITH GOD SENDING THE AC TO CAUSE PEOPLE WHO REJECT CHRIST SO THEY WILL BELIEVE A LIE THAT GOD HAS COME TO THEM
READ YOUR BIBLE -IT IS GODS WRATH THAT PUNISHES PEOPLE WHO REJECT CHRIST AND CHOOSE TO LIVE AS THEY WANT TO IN WHATEVER SINFUL MANNER THEY CHOOSE
READ ALL OF THE BIBLE

Revelation 12:17 is about when Satan will be cast out of Heaven....that is when the 42 months reign of the Beast will begin Revelation 13....Do you see that those who keep the testimony of Jesus are THERE Revelation 12:17 ....they are NOT NEW BELIEVERS.

Revelation 12:17 is the text who prove that the CHRISTIANS ALIVE have not been removed out of the Earth.

 

[seventysevens]

Revelation 12:17 is about when Satan will be cast out of Heaven....that is when the 42 months reign of the Beast will begin Revelation 13....Do you see that those who keep the testimony of Jesus are THERE Revelation 12:17 ....they are NOT NEW BELIEVERS.

How do you define NEW BELIEVERS ?

 

[Riberra]

How do you define NEW BELIEVERS ?

You said that will be sinners who will convert to Jesus while the Beast will be in power.

Revelation 12:17 is the proof that you are wrong....and prove that the CHRISTIANS will not be removed out of the Earth .

Now your turn,
SHOW US THE VERSES WHERE JESUS SAID THAT HE WILL REMOVE THE BELIEVERS OUT OF THE EARTH BEFORE THE TRIBULATION ?

 

[seventysevens]

You said that will be sinners who will convert to Jesus while the Beast will be in power.

Revelation 12:17 is the proof that you are wrong....and prove that the CHRISTIANS will not be removed out of the Earth .

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

that verse says that the dragon is angry at people who kept God as their savoir -that refused to serve the dragon

How do you derive from that verse that
no one after the start of the GT would not take 60 seconds and cry out to God and ask for forgiveness of their sins and repent and ask Jesus to be their Lord and savoir?

DO NOT UNDERSTAND THAT I SAID I REFER TO PEOPLE WHO ARE BORN AGAIN BEFORE THE GT BEGINS