What Does Aionios Mean in Matthew 25:46 and 2 Thessalonians 1:9? (part 1)

[ClementofA]

Does insisting aionios life means eternal life lead to a denial of the Trinity & the Deity of Christ? See below:

Your entire argument fails right here and crashes to the ground

Eternal [aionios] life is Jesus Christ . He is the life and eternal life as scripture says and he is forever and eternal and everlasting in His being. And all believers have eternal life "abiding" in them, as they abide in Jesus Christ for he is eternal life.

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us 3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ."( 1 John 1:1-3 KJV)

Notice the "eternal [aionios] life" life is Jesus Christ.

"11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal [aionios] life, and this life is in his Son."( 1 John 5:11 KJV)

"20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal [aionios] life."(1 John 5:20 KJV)

Eternal [aionios] life is actually Jesus Christ himself and if he is in us we are in Him which is eternal [aionios] life.

and so those who wilfully sin and do such things as this

"15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal [aionios] life abiding in him."( 1 John 3:15 KJV)

These no longer have eternal life (Jesus Christ ) abiding in them. Notice that Jesus Christ (eternal life) is in a person or not. It is not an age as some make it in many instances but actually Jesus Christ himself. This could be the reason why some don't understand this and teach heresy because Jesus Christ ( eternal life ) is not in them . I would say to all to read this and consider,

"5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"(2 Cor 13:5 KJV)

2 Corinthians 13:3
"Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you."

Context determines the meaning of a word. The same word can have more than one, or even many, meanings in different contexts.

So, to illustrate, if aionion means "eternal" in one context, it can mean a finite age or ages, epoch, era, millennium, lifetime, 3 days, long time, lasting, etc, in other passages.

In order to refute universalism you need to prove the word aionion means "eternal" when speaking of punishment. Arguing that it means "eternal" in regards to life proves nothing.

Universalists mostly agree that aionion sometimes means "eternal" & at others times it doesn't. Call that position A. And the following position B:

Some universalists, however, argue that in Scripture aionion never means eternal & that it always refers to an age, ages or a period of time that is finite. For more on that view see, for example, points 8 & 9 at posts 130 & 131 at:

What is the 2nd Death? (Annihilationsim vs. Eternal Torment)


Which leads us to the passage you refer to, 1 Jn.1:2, & the interpretation of the aforementioned "position B". It says Christ is life aionion, as 1 Jn.1:2 is to be understood. That doesn't mean that is everything Christ is. Christ is much more than that. After the aions end He will still be life, just as He was during the aions. He is both the life eonian and more than life eonian. He is life during the eons and life after the eons. So to say Christ is eonian life does not prove aionion means eternal. In fact, since the aions end, according to Scripture (Heb.9:26; 1 Cor.10:11), the eonian times (Titus 1:2, etc) must also end, as must eonian punishment (Mt.25:46). But since Christ & the saints will have immortality, incorruption, etc, their life will be endless.

BTW it's impossible for "life eonian" to be endless in the past because the eonian times had a beginning (Titus 1:2; Rom.16:25; 2 Tim.1:9). Are you going to argue that Christ had a beginning, too?

Christ Himself connected eonian life with the eon to come (Mk.10:30; Lk.18:30), yet Scripture speaks of multiple eons (ages) to come (Eph.1:21; 2:7; Lk.1:33; Rev. 22:5). So eonian life there can be understood to be restricted to a finite eon.

"In the Gospels there are instances where the substantive aion and the adjective aionios are juxtaposed or associated in a single image or utterance (most directly in Mark 10:30 and Luke 18:30). This obvious parallel in the Greek is invisible in almost every English tanslation" (p.540, The New Testament: A Translation, by EO scholar David Bentley Hart, 2017).

Considering Lk.18:30 above, ECF John Chrysostom limits aionios to a specific age of finite duration:

"For that his[Satan's] kingdom is of this age,[αἰώνιος] i.e., will cease with the present age[αιώνι] ..." (Homily 4 on Ephesians, Chapter II. Verses 1-3).

CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 4 on Ephesians (Chrysostom)

Also another Early Church Father by the name of Origen spoke of what is "after" and "beyond" aionios life. As a native Greek speaker & scholar he knew the meaning of the word:

"...in the one who drinks of the water that Jesus gives leaps into eternal life. And after eternal life, perhaps it will also leap into the Father who is beyond eternal life." (Comm. in Io 13.3)


N.T. Wright is considered to be a leading NT scholar & his translation renders "life aionios" as "the life of God's coming age" (1 Jn.1:2, NTE). Compare:

Weymouth New Testament
the Life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness, and we declare unto you the Life of the Ages which was with the Father and was manifested to us--

Young's Literal Translation
and the Life was manifested, and we have seen, and do testify, and declare to you the Life, the age-during, which was with the Father, and was manifested to us --

And the life was manifested, and we have seen and are testifying and reporting to you the life eonian which was toward the Father and was manifested to us. (CLV)

And, the Life, was made manifest, and we have seen, and are bearing witness, and announcing unto you, the Age-abiding Life, which, indeed, was with the Father, and was made manifest unto us; (Ro)

(and the life was manifested, and we have seen, and we bear testimony, and we declare to you the life the age-lasting, which was with the Father, and was manifested to us (Diaglott Greek-English interlinear)

...the AIONIAN LIFE...(Diaglott margin)

and announce to you the life of the Age...(The NT: A Translation, by EO scholar David Bentley Hart, 2017).

Indeed the Chayyei [Olam] was manifested, and we have seen it and we give solemn eidus (witness of testimony) and we proclaim to you the Chayyei Olam which was alongside with HaAv [Yochanan 1:1-4,14] and made hisgalus (appearance of, exposure of in revelation) to us [Shlichim]. (OJB)

Speaking of OLAM, we now turn to Dan.12:2-3, which also supports the above position:

The context suggests the view that both the life & the punishment referred to in v.2 are of finite duration (OLAM), since v.3 speaks of those who will be for OLAM "and further".

2 From those sleeping in the soil of the ground many shall awake, these to eonian life and these to reproach for eonian repulsion." 3 The intelligent shall warn as the warning of the atmosphere, and those justifying many are as the stars for the eon and further." (Dan.12:2-3, CLV)

The Hebrew word for eonian (v.2) & eon (v.3) above is OLAM which is often used of limited durations in the OT. In verse 3 of Dan. 12 are the words "OLAM and further" showing an example of its finite duration in the very next words after Dan. 12:2. Thus, in context, the OLAM occurences in v.2 could also both be understood as being of finite duration.

Additionally, the early church accepted the following Greek OT translation of the Hebrew OT of Dan. 12:3:

καὶ οἱ συνιέντες ἐκλάμψουσιν ὡς ἡ λαμπρότης τοῦ στερεώματος καὶ ἀπὸ τῶν δικαίων τῶν πολλῶν ὡς οἱ ἀστέρες εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας καὶ ἔτι[and further]

Notice the words at the end saying KAI ETI, meaning "and further" or "and still" or "and yet" & other synonyms.

eti: "still, yet...Definition: (a) of time: still, yet, even now, (b) of degree: even, further, more, in addition." Strong's Greek: 2089. ἔτι (eti) -- still, yet

εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας καὶ ἔτι means "into the ages and further" as a translation of the Hebrew L'OLAM WA ED[5703, AD]

So this early church Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures agrees with the above translation (& those below) using the words "and further", "futurity", "beyond" & similarly.

3 and·the·ones-being-intelligent they-shall- warn as·warning-of the·atmosphere and·ones-leading-to-righteousness-of the·many-ones as·the·stars for·eon and·futurity (Dan. 12:3, Hebrew-English Interlinear)
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/dan12.pdf

2 and, many of the sleepers in the dusty ground, shall awake,—these, [shall be] to age-abiding life, but, those, to reproach, and age-abiding abhorrence;
3 and, they who make wise, shall shine like the shining of the expanse,—and, they who bring the many to righteousness, like the stars to times age-abiding and beyond. (Dan. 12:2-3, Rotherham)

2 And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to life age-during, and some to reproaches—to abhorrence age-during.
3 And those teaching do shine as the brightness of the expanse, and those justifying the multitude as stars to the age and for ever*. (Dan. 12:2-3, YLT)
* for "for ever" Young of YLT says substitute "age during" everywhere in Scripture: http://heraldmag.org/olb/Contents/bibles/ylt.pdf

Dan. 12:2-3 was the only Biblical reference to "life OLAM" Jesus listeners had to understand His meaning of "life aionios"(life OLAM) in Mt.25:46 & elsewhere in the New Testament.

Verse 3 speaks of those justifying "many". Who are these "many"? The same "many" of verse 2, including those who were resurrected to "shame" & "contempt"? IOW the passage affirms universalism?

 

[LoveofTruth]

Recently I’ve spent a fair bit of time interacting with some of my brothers and sisters in Christ who are Universalists. I’ve read some of their material, including one of the best books supporting their view. I have engaged with them in debates on forums. The Universalists I’ve been engaging with are Christians who believe Jesus is the only way to salvation. They realize that many people die without accepting Jesus. They agree with other Christians that these unbelievers will be resurrected to face judgment. But they believe the purpose of that judgment, and of the suffering the unrighteous will endure, is to lead them to accept Christ. These Universalists believe that everyone eventually will accept Christ and be released from their time of judgment in the lake of fire and be accepted into God’s eternal kingdom.

There are many arguments for and against Universalism. Not only are there many arguments, there are many types of arguments. Some of the arguments are based on theological principles, others on philosophical reasoning, and still others on the interpretation of specific passages and verses. Of course, many arguments are a mix of theology, philosophy, and exegesis.

In this article I am going to focus on two verses and one key word. These two verses, if read and interpreted at face value, decisively refute Universalism. Here are those two verses with the key word highlighted:

CSB Matthew 25:46 "And they will go away into eternal (aionios) punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

CSB 2 Thessalonians 1:9 These will pay the penalty of eternal (aionios) destruction from the Lord's presence and from His glorious strength​

If the punishment of the unrighteous is eternal, then Universalism is not true. Likewise, if the unrighteous suffer destruction which is eternal, then of course they will not be saved.

The Universalist response to this evidence which is fatal to their view is to argue that aionios should not be translated “eternal”. Their arguments may be convincing to some, but they are not convincing to me. But I don’t expect you to just take my word for it. I will try to explain the evidence which shows that in the context of Matthew 25:46 and 2 Thessalonians 1:9, the many different teams of translators who chose “eternal” or “everlasting” to translate aionios were correct to do so. Beginning in Part 2 of this post, I will try to explain the weaknesses and errors I see in the Universalist counterarguments. This topic is by nature a bit technical, but I think I can explain it in a way that will make sense even if you’ve never been blessed with the opportunity to study Greek or linguistics.

1. Defining Aionios

Most words have a range of meaning. Words tend to have several different precise meanings which are all related. This can be easily seen by looking at a good English dictionary.

Consider the verb “fly”. It has a number of related meanings (this list is not complete):

1. To move through the air by means of wings
Birds fly south in winter.
2. To move or travel by air
We flew to Seattle for vacation.
3. To pilot an aircraft or spacecraft
The crew flew from New York to Mexico City.
4. To rise in or be carried through the air by the wind
Dust and pollen flew through the air.
5. To float or flutter in the air
Pennants flying from buildings.
6.To pass by swiftly
The vacation flew by.
7. To cause to float of flutter in the wind
Fly a kite.
(These definitions and sentences are taken from The American Heritage Student Dictionary, 1998, Houghton Milton, pg. 393).​

You’ll notice that for each definition of “fly” the dictionary included a sample sentence. Gathering real life examples of sentences spoken or written by native speakers of a language is one of the main ways a lexicographer (a person who makes a dictionary) determines the various definitions of words. The range of meaning of aionios in the New Testament can be determined using this method. Some words are not used frequently enough in the New Testament to determine their meaning, and in these cases it is necessary to look for examples in Greek outside the New Testament from as close to the same time and location as the Biblical authors as possible. Fortunately, aionios occurs 71 times in the New Testament. This is enough data to come up with a good list of definitions. Later we will consider some examples from outside the New Testament.

1.1 Defining aionios using New Testament examples

We will want to choose examples where the meaning is obvious. There are some sentences where the meaning is not obvious. For example:

ESV Jn. 6:47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal (aionios) life.​

If this sentence is taken all by itself, out of context, there is not enough in the sentence to determine what aionios means. We might guess that it is something good, but it could mean “good”, “happy”, “safe”, “successful”, “fruitful”, “meaningful”, or many other things. Thankfully, as we’ll soon see, there are other sentences where the meaning of aionios is quite obvious.

Just as there were multiple, related meanings of “fly”, we will see some related meanings for aionios. Specifically, we will see a slight difference in meaning depending on whether the sentence using aionios is (1) looking forward in time, (2) back in time, or (3) at the whole of time, both forward and backward.

1.1.1. New Testament verses where aionios is looking forward in time.

ESV Rom. 2:7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal (aionios) life;​

In this example aionios life is seen to be equivalent to immortality. Since immortality means never dying, aionios life is life that never ends. Here we see one common meaning:

aionios: that which continues in time without ever ending, eternal

There are other verses where this definition is equally clear:

ESV Jn. 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal (aionios) life.​

Because having aionios life is the opposite of perishing, it stands to reason that this means life which never ends.

ESV 2 Cor. 4:18 as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal (aionios).​

Here aionios is seen to be the opposite of transient. The Greek word translated “transient” is proskairos and means “of what continues for a limited time” (from the Friberg Greek Lexicon). So, aionios refers to things which do not continue only for a limited time.

We are truly blessed to have such clear examples of the meaning of aionios when looking forward in time in the New Testament. Aionios life is immortal life, it is the life of one who does not perish, and aionios is the opposite of something lasting for a limited time. In other words, all those Bible translation teams for all the various translations used widely by Christians got it right. Aionios does in fact mean eternal.

Because the specific uses of aionios we are concerned with (Matthew 25:46 and 2 Thessalonians 1:9) look forward in time, we might stop here. But let’s briefly look at the other two related meanings of aionios which are found in the New Testament.

1.1.2. New Testament verses where aionios is looking back in time.

There are just three verses in the New Testament where aionios is used in a setting which is looking backwards into time as opposed to looking forward or looking at all time. Here they are. I’ve included two translations of each:

CSB Romans 16:25 Now to Him who has power to strengthen you according to my gospel and the proclamation about Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept silent for long ages (kronos aionios)

ESV Romans 16:25 Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages (kronois aionion)

CSB 2 Timothy 1:9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began (pro kronon aionion).

ESV 2 Timothy 1:9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began (pro kronon aionion),

CSB Titus 1:2 in the hope of eternal life that God, who cannot lie, promised before time began (pro kronon aionion).

ESV Titus 1:2 in hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began (pro kronon aionion)

Note: Greek words change their endings depending on their grammatical use in a sentence, as some English words do (i.e., sent and send). Thus, “aionion” in the sentences above is the same Greek word as “aionios” and “kronon” is the same as “kronos.”​

.
Those who have studied the phrases in these passages have seen two possibilities.

1. When only looking backward in time, aionios may be used to refer to a very long but limited period of time . The main argument for this is that the Greek preposition pro usually means “before” when referring to time. Kronos means time. It appears impossible for anything to happen “before eternity past”, therefore it is reasoned that aionios here cannot literally mean “without beginning”, but must mean something like “going way back”.

A second argument in favor of this view is that in Titus 1:2 it is said that God “promised”. Promises are usually made to someone who can hear them, which would seem to imply that someone (like Adam or perhaps Abraham) is in mind. If this is true, aionios obviously cannot be referring to eternity past, since no one existed in eternity past accept God.

2. The above argument initially sounds airtight, and when I started researching this issue I thought it was probably correct, although it produced a definition for aionios from three verses looking back in time which did not seem neatly symmetrical to the definitions for aionios which are clearly seen in the many verses which look forward in time or look at all time. It turns out that there is evidence to support the possibility that even in these three verses, aionios, means “without beginning”, and is referring to what we call “eternity past”.

The phrase pro kronon aionion may be an idiomatic way of saying “from all eternity past”. Consider a similar phrase in Jude 1:25:

CSB Jude 1:25 to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, power, and authority before all time (pro pantos tou aionos), now and forever. Amen.​

It will help to realize that aionos is the plural of the noun aion, not a form of the adjective aionios. A word for word literal translation of pro pantos tou aionos would be “before all the ages”. Surely Jude did not intend to leave a gap in time here so that God received glory before the all ages, then there is a gap during the past ages up until “now” when He starts to receive glory again. Jude seems to be using pro pantos tou aionos here to include all time in the past. It seems that pro kronon aionion could be used in a similar way meaning “throughout all past time back into eternity”.

As far as God making a promise in Titus 1:2, it is possible to make a promise to one’s self about something you intend to later do for someone else. In God’s case, such a “promise” would be 100% certain to later be fulfilled, and would later be revealed to us. Concerning Titus 1:2, Henry Alford makes precisely this same argument:

promised from eternal ages (the very distinct use of πρὸ χρόνων αἰωνίων in 2 Timothy 1:9, where the meaning ‘from ancient times’ is precluded, should have kept Commentators from endeavouring to fix that sense on the words here. The solution of the difficulty, that no promise was actually made till the race of man existed, must be found by regarding, as in 2 Tim. l. c., the construction as a mixed one,—compounded of the actual promise made in time, and the divine purpose from which that promise sprung, fixed in eternity. Thus, as there God is said to have given us grace in Christ from eternal ages, meaning that the gift took place as the result of a divine purpose fixed from eternity, so here He is said to have promised eternal life from eternal ages, meaning that the promise took place as the result of a purpose fixed from eternity. (from Alford, Henry. "Commentary on Titus 1:2". Greek Testament Critical Exegetical Commentary. https:Titus 1 Commentary - Greek Testament Critical Exegetical Commentary. 1863-1878.)​

My conclusion is that when looking back in time, aionios might refer to “a very long time ago”, but more likely refers to “a time without beginning, from eternity past”. Even if it refers to “a very long time ago”, this meaning of a long, but limited time is ONLY found in passages looking back in time in the New Testament, never in passages looking forward in time.

1.1.3. New Testament verses where aionios is looking at all time

Where aionios refers to God, or God’s purposes, it is most likely and natural that it means “time without beginning and without end”. Here are some examples:

ESV Rom. 16:26 but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith—

CSB Hebrews 9:14 how much more will the blood of the Messiah, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works to serve the living God?​

1.1.4. Conclusion from the examples we have looked at

Aionios means:

1. “for time without end,” “continuing for all eternity,” “permanent,” “never ending,” “eternal” when referring to the future.
2. either “for a long time into the past,” or, more likely “from time without beginning,” “from eternity past,” when referring to the past.
3. “for all eternity,”,when referring to God, looking both back in time to eternity past and forward to eternity future.​

Looking at all the uses of aionios in the New Testament, I cannot find a single sentence where the definitions given above are not an excellent fit.

1.2 Defining aionios using Greek lexicons

By looking at sample sentences from the New Testament, we have just done some of the work which is done by those who make Greek lexicons. Of course, the people who make Greek lexicons are experts at this type of work, so we will want to compare our conclusions with theirs. The Lexicons I use most frequently are: (1) The Friberg Greek Lexicon, (2) Thayer Greek Lexicon, and (3) Danker Lexicon (these three I have as part of the BibleWorks program), and (4) A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature which is often referred to as BDAG. I did not cherry-pick these lexicons. They are honestly the ones I most frequently use. Many scholars consider BDAG to be the “gold standard”.

All four of these lexicons agree very closely with the definitions we found above by looking at example sentences. That’s not surprising since they are looking at the same sentences in the New Testament! Here’s a summary of their definitions. For two of the lexicons I provide summaries because the full entries are long, but I encourage you to look and see for yourself that I have not left out any part of an entry that is contrary to the definitions given above:

1.2.1 The Friberg Lexicon

The Friberg Lexicon entry:

αἰώνιος, ον (sometimes ος, ία, ον) eternal, everlasting, opposite πρόσκαιρος (temporary, transitory); (1) of God without beginning or end, eternal (RO 16.26); (2) without beginning (RO 16.25); (3) without end, everlasting (2C 5.1); (4) neuter singular αἰώνιον as an adverb for all time, forever ​

1.2.2 A Summary of Thayer’s definitions

1. without beginning or end, that which always has been and always will be
2. without beginning
3. without end, never to cease, everlasting:​

1.2.3 Danker’s Lexicon Entry

αἰώνιος, α, ον [αἰών] – 1. ‘relating to a period of time extending far into the past’, long ages ago Ro 16:25. In 2 Ti 1:9; Tit 1:2 the prep. πρό invites the rendering before time began. – 2. ‘relating to time without boundaries or interruption’, eternal Ro 16:26; Hb 9:14. – 3. relating to a period of unending duration’, permanent, lasting Lk 16:9; 2 Cor 5:1; Hb 5:9. ​

1.2.4 A Summary of BDAG’s Entry

αἰώνιος
1. without beginning
2. without beginning or end
3. without end​

1.2.5 Other Lexicons

I was greatly encouraged that my favorite Lexicons unanimously came up with the same list of definitions for aionios which I find by looking at examples in the New Testament. But “Mark’s favorite lexicons” are not the only legitimate sources to check. There are some lexicons and other reference sources which give meanings which support the Universalist view. Some of these lexicons and sources may have been produced by Universalists or others with an axe to grind, but at least one well known lexicon gives an entry which could support the Universalist view.

The Liddel-Scott lexicon, which is available on the very helpful Perseus website, includes the following entry:

αἰώνιος
also α, ον Pl. Ti.37d, Ep.Heb.9.12:—lasting for an age ( αἰών 11), perpetual, eternal (but dist. fr. ἀΐδιος, Plot.3.7.3), μέθη​

“Lasting for an age” is precisely the definition which many Universalists argue for. But on closer inspection, Liddel-Scott’s definition does not appear to be well supported. As far as I can tell, the only New Testament example given is from Hebrew 9:12. Let’s look at that verse, which does use the word aionios:

CSB Hebrews 9:12 He entered the most holy place once for all, not by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own blood, having obtained eternal (aionios) redemption.​

It’s hardly obvious that in this sentence aionios means merely “lasting for an age” instead of “lasting forever”. In fact, most of us hope that our redemption does last forever, and the teaching of scripture strongly supports this hope.

correction: In comment #3, ClementofA correctly notes that I missed some New Testament references in Liddel-Scott. I don't have a hard copy of that Lexicon, and I suspect that I only saw part of the entry on my screen. This is a helpful correction. Thanks! However, the other New Testament references also do not include any examples where aionios is looking towards the future and is not referencing something which reasonably could be eternal. In fact, there are no New Testament examples like that. I've checked every one.
When Universalists quote various sources and references concerning aionios, I recommend you ask this question: What sample sentences from the New Testament are given to support aionios referring to a limited time period going into the future? Even lexicons can be wrong.

1.3 Bible Translations

It’s very likely that every Bible translation which you have ever owned or heard preached from translates aionion as “eternal” or “everlasting” in Matthew 25:46. The view I’m arguing for basically says that your English translation in this case is correct.

Here are some of the well-known translations where you will find the phrase “eternal punishment” or “everlasting punishment”: American Standard Version, Christian Standard Bible, English Standard Bible, King James Version, New American Standard, New English Translation, New International Version, New King James Version, New Living Translation, New Revised Standard Version, and the Revised Standard Version.

Are there any translations which support the Universalist view? Yes. Most of them you have probably never heard of, and perhaps for good reason! One you may have heard of is Young’s Literal Translation:

YLT Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'​

At least Young is consistent! He has both the punishment of the unrighteous and the life of the righteous only lasting for an undefined “age”. He translates aionios in John 3:16 the same way:

YLT John 3:16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.​

Young’s translation is just plain wrong in the way it translates aionios. What does “age-during” even mean? It’s terrible English and it’s a terrible translation. Even for a “literal translation”, the phrase “age-during” is just plain wrong as a definition for aionios. Young has probably made the error of basing the meaning of the adjective aionios on its related noun, aion. This error will be examined in part 2 of this post.

In part 1, I have tried to define aionios and explain why this definition is correct.

The definition of aionios I have explained here leads to the conclusion that based on Matthew 25:46 and 2 Thessalonians 1:9 those found to be unrighteous on judgment day will experience eternal punishment and specifically eternal destruction. Therefore, they will never enter God’s kingdom and Universalism is false.

Starting in part 2, I will examine Universalist arguments related to the meaning of aionios that oppose my view.

This was initially a post on my blog.

Many good points

 

[LoveofTruth]

Hi Mark,
It seems you've put a good bit of work into this article. I have to say though that I disagree with your conclusion. I don't believe that aionios is properly translated eternal. While I'm not a universalist I do believe that aionios refers to an age.

This understanding of aeons as only age is easily refuted here,

"Your entire argument fails right here and crashes to the ground

Eternal [aionios] life is Jesus Christ . He is the life and eternal life as scripture says and he is forever and eternal and everlasting in His being. And all believers have eternal life "abiding" in them, as they abide in Jesus Christ for he is eternal life.

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us 3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ."( 1 John 1:1-3KJV)

Notice the "eternal [aionios] life" life is Jesus Christ.

"11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal [aionios] life, and this life is in his Son."( 1 John 5:11 KJV)

"20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal [aionios] life."(1 John 5:20 KJV)

Eternal [aionios] life is actually Jesus Christ himself and if he is in us we are in Him which is eternal [aionios] life.

and so those who wilfully sin and do such things as this

"15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal [aionios] life abiding in him."( 1 John 3:15 KJV)

These no longer have eternal life (Jesus Christ ) abiding in them. Notice that Jesus Christ (eternal life) is in a person or not. It is not an age as some make it in many instances but actually Jesus Christ himself. This could be the reason why some don't understand this and teach heresy because Jesus Christ ( eternal life ) is not in them . I would say to all to read this and consider,

"5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"(2 Cor 13:5 KJV)

2 Corinthians 13:3
"Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you.""

 

[LoveofTruth]

Does insisting aionios life means eternal life lead to a denial of the Trinity & the Deity of Christ?

absolutely not

Context determines the meaning of a word. The same word can have more than one, or even many, meanings in different contexts.

Yes i am aware of this. But where it is used in opposition to eternal , everlasting never ending life. This shows that the opposite is outside of Christ and not part of that life and will be lost forever and damned in the lake of fire


One question that should be answered is, how do those who hate God and end up in the lake of fire with the devil and His angels get out of there? How does the devil and all the lost souls get saved? Only in Christ jesus is there salvation and if men believe the gospel on earth and hunger after Gods righteousness to be saved. There is no chance after death. To say, as some might say, that hell and the lake of fire are some kind of purgation and all those there will eventually be saved through it. Is another gospel plain and simple and has some of the most sever warnings against such in scripture. This is a very very serious matter we are discussing.

Its interesting,those who say as I do, that the lost haters of God and enemies of God will be eternally, forever and ever separated from God in the lake of fire warn others of the seriousness of sin and of the danger of another gospel are looked upon with a presumptuous grind by the universalist.For those who believe all will be saved can only warn of a temporary judgement and in the end all will be well, they ignore such warnings of the eternal consequence of sin and unbelief and of another gospel..

Even my warning to the universalist is taken lightly because they don't worry, one day all will be with God in their view. This is wrong and dangerous spiritually.

In order to refute universalism you need to prove the word aionion means "eternal" when speaking of punishment. Arguing that it means "eternal" in regards to life proves nothing.

This has been done often by showing the opposing words in elation to eternal life and everlasting life. Many verses have ben shown by myself and other s in this respect.

And yes the argument that eternal life is JESUS CHRIST himself, does prove a great deal.

Some universalists, however, argue that in Scripture aionion never means eternal & that it always refers to an age, ages or a period of time that is finite. For more on that view see, for example, points 8 & 9 at posts 130 & 131 at:

my argument that Jesus Christ himseflf is ETRNAL LIFE defeat the argument that it only refers to "an age". So lets start with that argument and expose the heretical view that eternal only refers to "an age". Can we agree there for starters?

Which leads us to the passage you refer to, 1 Jn.1:2, & the interpretation of the aforementioned "position B". It says Christ is life aionion, as 1 Jn.1:2 is to be understood. That doesn't mean that is everything Christ is. Christ is much more than that.

Your trying to build a straw man and a fallacious argument. I never said all Christ is is eternal life. You are distracting from the weight of the text quoted and trying to create a sub argument that i never intended and then trying to tear it down. This is very weak.

After the aions end He will still be life, just as He was during the aions. He is both the life eonian and more than life eonian. He is life during the eons and life after the eons. So to say Christ is eonian life does not prove aionion means eternal.

You entirely miss what I was saying and create a false argument in attempt to avoid the issue.

Jesus Christ HIMSELF is eternal life. He is the the LIFE and if any believer is in Christ they have Jesus Christ (Eternal Life) in them . It is not some vague time frame or age. It is the actual person of the Son of God, Jesus Christ in them.
So if a person is saved, they have Jesus Christ (Eternal Life) in them and to die in this belief is everlasting life (Jesus Christ) To live is Christ to die is gain. This is a real presence in them. Eternal life is a presence in this instance.
If they do not have Jesus Christ in them, they abide in death and darkness and are lost and even if a believer or non believer hates his brother he no longer has "eternal life" abiding (remaining, continuing) in him (1 John 3:15 KJV). If they die in this state of not having Jesus Christ (Eternal Life) in them, they will be eternally damned and headed for the lake of fire forever and ever. There is no way (as far as I see in scripture) to have Jesus Christ (Eternal Life) come in them again after death.

Jesus said

John 5:24
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is [presnt tense] passed from death unto life....26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;...29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

Death and damnation is the opposite of this life in Jesus Christ, only "in him" is life. Also notice the future tense here as well,

John 3:36
"He that believeth on the Son hath [present tense] everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not [in the present time and future] see life; but the wrath of God abideth [remains] on him"

This shall not see life shows clearly the endless damnation in judgement and no life in Christ for such people. To say they shall not see life, is the opposite of the universalist who say , "yes all shall see life". The reason they might miss this is because eternal life is Jesus Christ himself in these context. If a man dies outside of Christ and abides not in him he is cast forth as a branch and withered and cast into the fire John 15.

In fact, since the aions end, according to Scripture (Heb.9:26; 1 Cor.10:11), the eonian times (Titus 1:2, etc) must also end, as must eonian punishment (Mt.25:46). But since Christ & the saints will have immortality, incorruption, etc, their life will be endless.

No since Christ is eternal life, those who are in Him are in eternal life. It is not a time frame here. But an never ending forever life in Christ . He is eternal life. To have the Son is to have life. To not have the Son is to not have life and to be in darkness and judgement forever.

BTW it's impossible for "life eonian" to be endless in the past because the eonian times had a beginning

This is a false word as well because Jesus Christ who is "eternal life" was HIMSELF always existing as we read in scripture. He was and is and shall be the Son of God without beginning of days and o rend of life,who is before all things etc Colossians 1, Hebrews 7:3 etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc).

To say that the Son of God who is HIMSELF eternal life is somehow not eternal in times past is a denial of the Son and so these who would say so have not the father (1 John 2:23 KJV) and so deny the second person of the Trinity.

(Titus 1:2; Rom.16:25; 2 Tim.1:9). Are you going to argue that Christ had a beginning, too?

Quite the opposite. I am showing that that is your argument as you deny "eternal life" to be endless in the past. eternal life is Jesus Christ Himself.

Christ Himself connected eonian life with the eon to come (Mk.10:30; Lk.18:30), yet Scripture speaks of multiple eons (ages) to come (Eph.1:21; 2:7; Lk.1:33; Rev. 22:5). So eonian life there can be understood to be restricted to a finite eon.

"But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life."(Mark 10:30 KJV)

30 Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting."(Luke 18:30 KJV)

These two verses simply say that in the world to come, which is a future realm and where Christ is all and in all. They will be in eternal life or in Jesus Christ the Son of God. This life is with the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. Truly our fellowship forever is with the Father and the Son as John said,

"2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us 3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ."(1 John 1:2,3 KJV)

So again you miss the mark and the understanding of eternal life or life everlasting. These two verses do not support your case. That life is in His Son, as we read

1 John 5:20
"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."

This eternal life in Jesus Christ himself is part of knowing God as jesus said

"3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."(John 17:3 KJV)

CHURCH FATHERS:

Sorry, while we may read others and learn from some things they say. I stick with scripture that was given by the Spirit of God and conveyed to the saints. NI do not put men above that which is written. And I do not on any level equate the so called "church fathers" to scripture or equal to it. Jesus said call no man "father", is it possible he was not only referring to the Catholic "fathers" so called, but also to the so called "church fathers"?

 

[ClementofA]

This has been done often by showing the opposing words in elation to eternal life and everlasting life. Many verses have ben shown by myself and other s in this respect.

I read the book Hell on Trial: The Case for Eternal Punishment by Robert Peterson. He makes a solid argument. Would recommend it. He includes this quote from Augustine's City of God,

what a fond fancy is it to suppose that eternal punishment means long continued punishment, while eternal life means life without end, since Christ in the very same passage spoke of both in similar terms in one and the same sentence, "These shall go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into life eternal!" Matthew 25:46 If both destinies are "eternal," then we must either understand both as long-continued but at last terminating, or both as endless. For they are correlative — on the one hand, punishment eternal, on the other hand, life eternal. And to say in one and the same sense, life eternal shall be endless, punishment eternal shall come to an end, is the height of absurdity. Wherefore, as the eternal life of the saints shall be endless, so too the eternal punishment of those who are doomed to it shall have no end.

"This specious argument goes back at least to Augustine. As has long ago been said, however, due to its unreasonableness, it ought never be heard again."

Augustine was rather ignorant of Greek.

For some other parallels in Scripture consider:

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."

1 Cor.15:22 AS in Adam ALL die SO ALSO in Christ shall ALL be made alive.

1 Cor.15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Lamentations 3:22 and 3:31-33, The steadfast love of the Lord NEVER ceases, his mercies NEVER come to an end. . . .Lam.3:31 For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER: 32 For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33 For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the SONS OF MEN.…

David Burnfield makes an interesting point re Matthew 25:46:

"None of the sins listed in [the context of] Matt.25:46 can be considered blasphemy of the Holy Spirit."

He quotes Mt.12:31:

"Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven." (NASB)

And emphasizes the words "any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people".

He then says "If we can believe what Christ tells us, then the 'only' sin that is 'not' forgiven is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit which obviously does not include the sins listed in Matt.25:34-44."

Then he quotes from Jan Bonda's book "The One Purpose of God...":

"Verse...46, in particular, has always been cited as undeniable proof that Jesus taught eternal punishment. Yet it is clear that the sins Jesus listed in this passage do not constitute the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Assuming Jesus did not utter this word with the intention of contradicting what he said moments before [Matt 12:31], we must accept that the sins mentioned in this passage [Matt 25:46] will eventually be forgiven. This means, however strange it may sound to us, that this statement of Jesus about eternal punishment is not the final word for those who are condemned."

(pg 220-221, Patristic Universalism: An Alternative To The Traditional View of Divine Judgement, 2nd ed, 2016, by David Burnfield)

Spirit blasphemy - unpardonable sin

The NT translation of Eastern Orthodox scholar Bentley Hart does not use the words "eternal" or "everlasting" at Mt.25:46, but instead reads "chastening of that Age" & "life of that Age". (The New Testament: A Translation, 2017, Yale University Press).

Many other versions do likewise, as listed here:

Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?

Some literal translations of Mt.25:46 have:

Young‘s Literal Translation: ―punishment age-during.
Rotherham Translation: ―age-abiding correction.
Weymouth Translation: ―punishment of the ages.
Concordant Literal Translation: ―chastening eonian."

eonian, "αἰώνιος...lasting for an age...partaking of the character of that which lasts for an age, as contrasted with that which is brief and fleeting... (also used of past time, or past and future as well) Derivation: from G165;" G166 αἰώνιος - Strong's Greek Lexicon

"2851. kolasis...Short Definition: chastisement, punishment..."

"In the late 2nd century/early 3rd century, Clement of Alexandria clearly distinguished between kólasis and timoria: “For there are partial corrections [padeiai] which are called chastisements [kólasis], which many of us who have been in transgression incur by falling away from the Lord’s people. But as children are chastised by their teacher, or their father, so are we by Providence. But God does not punish [timoria], for punishment [timoria] is retaliation for evil. He chastises, however, for good to those who are chastised collectively and individually” (Strom. 7.16)."

https://afkimel.wordpress.com/2013/09/15/from-here-to-eternity-how-long-is-forever/

The "eternal" (eonian) fire that burned Sodom went out long ago:

Jude 1:7 As Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them in like manner to these committing ultra-prostitution, and coming away after other flesh, are lying before us, a specimen, experiencing the justice of fire eonian."

The fire wasn't eternal & neither is the "eternal fire" or punishment in Mt.25:41,46.

As regards the fate of the Jewish people, earlier in the same gospel of Saint Matthew Jesus' word does correct them re the false teachings of endless torments and annihilation, as follows:

Mt.1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mt.2:6b ...my people Israel.

That includes the murderous Pharisees, Judas Iscariot & all other Jews. And since God is no respecter of person, the Gentiles will also be saved, as the Scriptures reveal.

Considering the Greek word kolasis ("punishment", Mt.25:46, KJV) can refer to a corrective punishment, that should tell the reader of Matthew 25:46 what the possible duration of aionios ("everlasting", KJV) is & that it may refer to a finite punishment. Why? Because since if is corrective, it is with the purpose of bringing the person corrected to salvation. Once saved the person no longer has need of such a punishment & it ends. So it isn't "everlasting". Therefore this passage could just as easily support universalism as anything else.

From a review of a book by Ilaria Ramelli, namely The Christian Doctrine of Apokatastasis: A Critical Assessment from the New Testament to Eriugena (Brill, 2013. 890 pp):

"...in a passage in Origen in which he speaks of “life after aionios life” (160). As a native speaker of Greek he does not see a contradiction in such phrasing; that is because aionios life does not mean “unending, eternal life,” but rather “life of the next age.” Likewise the Bible uses the word kolasis to describe the punishment of the age to come. Aristotle distinguished kolasis from timoria, the latter referring to punishment inflicted “in the interest of him who inflicts it, that he may obtain satisfaction.” On the other hand, kolasis refers to correction, it “is inflicted in the interest of the sufferer” (quoted at 32). Thus Plato can affirm that it is good to be punished (to undergo kolasis), because in this way a person is made better (ibid.). This distinction survived even past the time of the writing of the New Testament, since Clement of Alexandria affirms that God does not timoreitai, punish for retribution, but he does kolazei, correct sinners (127)."

Ilaria Ramelli, The Christian Doctrine of Apokatastasis: A Critical Assessment from the New Testament to Eriugena | Nemes | Journal of Analytic Theology

"Augustine raised the argument that since aionios in Mt. 25:46 referred to both life and punishment, it had to carry the same duration in both cases. However, he failed to consider that the duration of aionios is determined by the subject to which it refers. For example, when aionios referred to the duration of Jonah’s entrapment in the fish, it was limited to three days. To a slave, aionios referred to his life span. To the Aaronic priesthood, it referred to the generation preceding the Melchizedek priesthood. To Solomon’s temple, it referred to 400 years. To God it encompasses and transcends time altogether."

"Thus, the word cannot have a set value. It is a relative term and its duration depends upon that with which it is associated. It is similar to what “tall” is to height. The size of a tall building can be 300 feet, a tall man six feet, and a tall dog three feet. Black Beauty was a great horse, Abraham Lincoln a great man, and Yahweh the GREAT God. Though God is called “great,” the word “great” is neither eternal nor divine. The horse is still a horse. An adjective relates to the noun it modifies. In relation to God, “great” becomes GREAT only because of who and what God is. This silences the contention that aion must always mean forever because it modifies God. God is described as the God of Israel and the God of Abraham. This does not mean He is not the God of Gentiles, or the God of you and me. Though He is called the God of the “ages,” He nonetheless remains the God who transcends the ages."

"In addition, Augustine’s reasoning does not hold up in light of Ro. 16:25, 26 and Hab. 3:6. Here, in both cases, the same word is used twice—with God and with something temporal. “In accord with the revelation of a secret hushed in times eonian, yet manifested now…according to the injunction of the eonian God” (Ro. 16:25, 26 CLT). An eonian secret revealed at some point cannot be eternal even though it is revealed by the eonian God. Eonian does not make God eternal, but God makes eonian eternal. “And the everlasting mountains were scattered.…His ways are everlasting” (Hab. 3:6). Mountains are not eternal, though they will last a very long time. God’s ways however, are eternal, because He is eternal."

Eternity in the Bible by Gerry Beauchemin – Hope Beyond Hell
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

Jude 7 speaks of the fire that destroyed Sodom as an example of "aionion fire" (the same words aionion fire used in Mt.25:41, compare v.46). Did Sodom burn forever?

Philo was contemporary with Christ & we have this translation of his words which use the same words Christ used at Mt.25:46:

"It is better absolutely never to make any promise at all than not to assist another willingly, for no blame attaches to the one, but great dislike on the part of those who are less powerful, and intense hatred and long enduring punishment [kolasis aiónios] from those who are more powerful, is the result of the other line of conduct." Philo: Appendix 2: Fragments

In the year 544 A.D. the emperor Justinian wrote a letter:

"It is conceded that the half-heathen emperor held to the idea of endless misery, for he proceeds not only to defend, but to define the doctrine.2 He does not merely say, "We believe in aionion kolasin," for that was just what Origen himself taught. Nor does he say "the word aionion has been misunderstood; it denotes endless duration," as he would have said, had there been such a disagreement. But, writing in Greek, with all the words of that abundant language from which to choose, he says: "The holy church of Christ teaches an endless aeonian (ateleutetos aionios) life to the righteous, and endless (ateleutetos) punishment to the wicked." If he supposed aionios denoted endless duration, he would not have added the stronger word to it. The fact that he qualified it by ateleutetos, demonstrated that as late as the sixth century the former word did not signify endless duration.

Chapter 21 - Unsuccessful Attempts to Suppress Universalism

If Christ meant "endless" punishment at Mt.25:46, why use the ambiguous aionios? Why not instead use the word aperantos ("endless"; 1 Timothy 1:4)? Or why not use the words "no end" as in Lk1:33b: "And of His kingdom there will be no end"? The answer seems obvious.

Early Church Father universalists who were Greek scholars & many others of the time did not see Mt.25:46 contradicting their belief:

"The first Christians, it will be seen, said in their creeds, "I believe in the æonian life;" later, they modified the phrase "æonian life," to "the life of the coming æon," showing that the phrases are equivalent. But not a word of endless punishment. "The life of the age to come" was the first Christian creed, and later, Origen himself (an Early Church Father universalist) declares his belief in æonian punishment, and in æonian life beyond. How, then, could æonian punishment have been regarded as endless?"

Another Aionios Thread - These Things Go On Forever

"Adolph Deissman gives this account: "Upon a lead tablet found in the Necropolis at Adrumetum in the Roman province of Africa, near Carthage, the following inscription, belonging to the early third century, is scratched in Greek: 'I am adjuring Thee, the great God, the eonian, and more than eonian (epaionion) and almighty...' If by eonian, endless time were meant, then what could be more than endless time?" "

Chapter Nine

"Walvoord appeals to Matthew 25:46 (“And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian,” CV), declaring that if the state of the blessed is eternal, as expressed by this word, there is no logical reason for giving limited duration to punishment."

"This specious argument goes back at least to Augustine. As has long ago been said, however, due to its unreasonableness, it ought never be heard again. From the fact that the life of the just nations and the chastening of the unjust nations are herein described by the same adjective, descriptive of duration, it does not follow that the latter group of nations, therefore, will be subjected to endless punishment. The argument assumes what is at issue by presuming that the life of the just, here, is termed an endless life. Simply because, on certain grounds, the life of those persons comprising the just nations will prove to be endless, it does not follow that the blessing of life afforded here to any such nations is therefore that of endless duration. It is as unreasonable to assume that eonian life doubtlessly signifies endless life as it would be to claim that youthful life actually signifies aged life, simply because our presuppositions and predilections may dictate such a conclusion."

"Professor Tayler Lewis (who was not a universalist) in commenting on what he calls the Olamic or Aeonian words of the Scripture, affirms that “they denote . . . the world [i.e., in the sense of duration] in time, or as a time-existence” (i.e., the “life” of the object thus described or delineated). He insists that these words are, in themselves, wholly indefinite (even though he conceives that, in Matthew 25:46, the scene is one of “finality”). Hence, concerning aiõnios, he states: “It would be more in accordance with the plainest etymological usage to give it simply the sense of olamic or aeonic, or to regard it as denoting, like the Jewish olam habba, the world [i.e., duration] to come."

“ ‘These shall go away into the punishment [the restraint, imprisonment] of the world to come, and these into the life of the world to come.’ That is all we can etymologically or exegetically make of the word in this passage. And so is it ever in the Old Syriac Version [i.e., the Peshito], where the one [i.e., uniform] rendering is still more unmistakably clear: ‘These shall go away to the pain of the olam, and these to the life of the olam’–the world to come.”

"...It is simply contrary to historical fact to suggest that the essence of these time expressions is that of endless duration. As Thomas De Quincey, the nineteenth century essayist and literary critic states: “All this speculation, first and last, is pure nonsense. Aiõnios does not mean ‘eternal,’ neither does it mean of limited duration . . . . What is an aiõn? The duration or cycle of existence which belongs to any object, not individually of itself, but universally, in right of its genius [i.e., inherent nature] . . . . The exact amount of the duration expressed by an aiõn depends altogether upon the particular subject which yields the aiõn.” "

"...Likewise, the Presbyterian Bible scholar, M. R. Vincent, in his extensive note on aiõn/aiõnios states: “Neither the noun nor the adjective, in themselves, carry the sense of endless or everlasting.” "

"...not only Walvoord, Buis, and Inge, but all intelligent students acknowledge that olam and aiõn sometimes refer to limited duration. Here is my point: The supposed special reference or usage of a word is not the province of the translator but of the interpreter. Since these authors themselves plainly indicate that the usage of a word is a matter of interpretation, it follows (1) that it is not a matter of translation, and (2) that it is wrong for any translation effectually to decide that which must necessarily remain a matter of interpretation concerning these words in question. Therefore, olam and aiõn should never be translated by the thought of “endlessness,” but only by that of indefinite duration (as in the anglicized transliteration “eon” which appears in the Concordant Version).

"In this response to your “deeply troubled” encounter with the Concordant Version, I have principally sought not to prove my position, but to open a door to its consideration; a door of further inquiry, with a view toward your attaining an awareness of the grace of God in truth, even as of the purpose of the eons, which He makes in Christ Jesus, our Lord (Eph.3:11). May our God and Father be pleased to use this writing unto such an end."

Eon As Indefinte Duration, Part Three

For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:

Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?

Spirit blasphemy - unpardonable sin

 

[Der Alte]

"...Likewise, the Presbyterian Bible scholar, M. R. Vincent, in his extensive note on aiõn/aiõnios states: “Neither the noun nor the adjective, in themselves, carry the sense of endless or everlasting.” ...

Well Vincent must be a pope who must be obeyed to Universalists even when he is proven wrong from scripture.

Romans 1:20
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [ἀΐ́διος/aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Romans 16:26
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​

In Rom 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, unending etc.
.....In Rom 16:26 Paul refers to God as “aionios,” therefore Paul considers “aidios” and “aionios” to be synonymous. The definition of aidios from Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich Lexicon of NT Greek.

ἀΐδιος, ον,( Hom. Hymns , Hes. +; inscr. ; Wsd 7:26 ; 4 Macc 10:15 ; a favorite w. Phil o: Op. M. 7; 171, Cher. 2; 4; 9, Post. Caini 39, Fuga 173; Jos. , Ant. 4, 178; 17, 152) eternal hJ aj. aujtou` (of God) duvnami" Ro 1:20 (Zoroaster in Philo Bybl. [Euseb., Pr. Ev. 1, 10, 52], 58th letter of Apollonius of Tyana [ Philostrat. I 360, 29 K.] and Sib. Or. 5, 66 qeo;" aj.). zwhv ( Philo , Fug. 97) IEph 19:3; desmoi`" aj. Jd 6 ( PGM 4, 1466 pulwre; kleivqrwn aji>divwn ). M-M. *
A Greek-English Lexicon Gingrich & Danker
​

 

[LoveofTruth]

For some other parallels in Scripture consider:

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."

1 Cor.15:22 AS in Adam ALL die SO ALSO in Christ shall ALL be made alive.

these sections may simply be talking of two specific things. Lets look at them in the actual bible the KJV

"18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."(Romans 5:18 KJV)

"19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."(Romans 5;129 KJV)

"22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."(1 Cor 15:22 KJV)

These verses may simply be saying two things. One that all those who are "IN Christ" and "alive in Christ" shall, (future tense ) be made alive and be justified and made righteous in Christ. Those who are not in Christ will not be alive or justified or made righteous. But will be dead and unrighteous and unjustified forever.

In the second aspect, which may also go along with the first,and that is INFANTS salvation.

When we read "As in Adam all die", this verse also relates to a one day old child who dies, so also in Christ shall infants be made alive through the work of Jesus Christ on the cross and made alive also. They are given the free gift of God's grace and seed, or word and true Light that eightieth every man that cometh into the world (John 1:9). This is the free gift that came upon all men unto justification of life THROUGH the work of Jesus Christ in time on the cross for all men. Jesus spoke of this word of the kingdom sown n the hearts of all men and the effects of the heart on that seed. We also read of this word sown in all in Hebrews 4:12,13.
Paul said that he was alive once without the law (Romans 7:9 KJV) and then the commandment came sin revived (his sin nature was provoked and now revived) and he died (spiritual death, for he didn't at that time die physically). So Paul as an infant and young child was "alive" once. This life is in Christ alone for only in Christ are all made alive. The free gift of God's word, seed true Light came upon all men unto the justification of life being purchased by Christ for all men.

When a child hates the light, then and only then are they condemned as Jesus said in John 3:18-21 KJV.

"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."(John 3:19,20 KJV)


When they hate the light they are condemned. This is because they ave actually done evil they are in ignorance and God winks in this time.. But there is a time when a child has not done evil knowingly we read,

Isaiah 7:16
"For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good,...."


The Light of Christ will reprove all sin and evil and this is the work of the law written in their hearts (Romans 2:14,15) The child is ignorant of many things and alive at one point. But when the commandment comes, or the Light sones and they understand then sin revives and they die.Then, they do evil when their sin nature is revived and the law works wrath this is when they are condemned. Some call it the age of accountability. The exact time is not as clear in this. But They then need to be born again and come to the salvation of Christ and have Christ formed again in them.

In this understanding Jesus Christ is truly the saviour of all men, specially of them that believe. If we include infants in that salvation who came into the world and are alive in Christ at one time.

Where no law is there is no transgression and sin is not imputed where there is no law. Paul said he was alive once without the law. And to them that know to do good and do it not to them it is sin. A child or infant does not know their left hand from their right. So they have not yet transgressed a known law. Sin is transgression of the law.

Yes all infants have a sin nature and they will still die because of the death that came upon all men form Adam. But God is gracious and saves them in Christ by his grace. Otherwise we have to say that a one day old infant who dies will stand before God and he will say to them, "away from me all ye that work iniquity"> Is this what any here can say with clarity? Will not the God of all do what is right?

Jesus spoke of the infants being blessed and of such are the kingdom of God (Mark 10:14).

So both can be true.

1. Only those in Christ can have life and be justified and made righteous.

2. All infants and young children who are in ignorance and have not yet had sin revive and done evil are included in that group.

For truly all have sinned, AND come short of the glory of God. All who have had sin revive have knowingly sinned and done evil, and all infants , though they have not knwingly sinned and done evil still have a sin nature and will die and so fall short of the glory of God. Both groups need a saviour,

So this understanding will stand against the universalist argument also

interestingly this understanding of infant salvation rebuke the Calvinist errors as well in many points But thats a whole different post.

 

[St. John of the Cross]

The word literally means "long lasting". Therefore, it can refer to eternity because eternity is "long lasting" The parallels used in the Bible seals the case that the Lake of fire is eternal.

and swore by him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and what is in it, the earth and what is in it, and the sea and what is in it, that there would be no more delay, ~~ Rev. 10:6


And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever. - Rev 22:5


and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. - Rev. 20 10


And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. - Matt. 25:46


And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting abhorrence. ~ Daniel

 

[ClementofA]

The word literally means "long lasting". Therefore, it can refer to eternity because eternity is "long lasting" The parallels used in the Bible seals the case that the Lake of fire is eternal.

and swore by him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and what is in it, the earth and what is in it, and the sea and what is in it, that there would be no more delay, ~~ Rev. 10:6


And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever. - Rev 22:5


and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. - Rev. 20 10


And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. - Matt. 25:46


And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting abhorrence. ~ Daniel

The word literally means "long lasting". Therefore, it can refer to eternity because eternity is "long lasting" The parallels used in the Bible seals the case that the Lake of fire is eternal.

and swore by him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and what is in it, the earth and what is in it, and the sea and what is in it, that there would be no more delay, ~~ Rev. 10:6


And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever. - Rev 22:5


and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. - Rev. 20 10


And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. - Matt. 25:46


And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting abhorrence. ~ Daniel

Twelve points opposing the opinion that AION is not used of finite time in the Scriptures. The same 12 points showing that even the phrase "into the ages of the ages" is used of finite time in the Bible:

(1) The smoke going up forever and ever (literally, into the ages of the ages, Rev.19:3) is finite in duration. For the fire as the source of the smoke will cease burning after the city is "utterly burned" (Rev.18:8) & "found no more" (18:21). Also the old earth passes away (Rev.21:1), so how would the city continue to smoke "for ever and ever"?

(2) The saints reign for "the ages of the ages" (Rev.22:5). But this is only until all rule & all authority are abolished (1 Cor.15:24). Consequently one interpretation of the phrase "forever and ever" in Rev.22:5 is that it is of finite duration.

(3) Christ reigns "for the ages of the ages" (Rev.11:15). Since His reign is "until" He gives up the kingdom (1 Cor.15:25-26), His reign for "the ages of the ages" is temporary, as is "the ages of the ages" related to it.

(4) Since Scripture teaches universal reconciliaton (e.g. Rev.5:13; Col.1:20), "the ages of the ages" referred to in Rev.20:10 re the torment of the devil cannot be endless. Likewise with other lesser sinners [e.g. humans] that may be punished in the lake of fire (cf. Rev.14:11 which uses a similar phrase, "ages of ages", without the definite article "the").

(5) Comparing Rev.20:10 with Matthew 25:41, Jesus said the future of the devil & his angels is fire aionios (Mt.25:41, 46), mistranslated everlasting or "eternal fire" by pro ECT (eternal conscious torments) Bible versions (e.g. KJV). Fire aionios is also associated with the fire that burnt Sodom (Jude 7). That fire was not eternal, went out long ago, & its effects will last only until Sodom is restored (Ezek 16). Thus there is a Scriptural basis for taking the same phrase, fire aionios, which also occurs at Mt.25:41 & 18:8, as referring to a fire that is of finite duration. Likewise with "into eons of the eons" in Rev.20:10 which also refers to the devil's eonian (Mt.25:41) punishment associated with fire. So the devil's eon related punishment by fire in both Mt.25:41 & Rev.20:10 is finite. Therefore, the period "the eons of the eons" (Rev.20:10) must end. And surely since the devil's torments "into the ages of the ages" end, so do those related to human beings (cf. Rev.14:11; Mt.18:8; 25:41), for the same terminology is applied to them. Moreover, they are less sinful than Satan. If his punishment ends, then why not theirs also? Consequently the mistranslation "forever and ever" in Rev.20:10 & 14:11 refers to a finite period of time, with a beginning and an end.

Summing up the argument:

- eonian fire is finite (Jude 7)
- eonian fire is the devil's punishment (Mt.25:41)
- which is equal to his punishment in Rev.20:10
- therefore his punishment is finite &
- his torment for the eons of the eons is finite &
- the eons of the eons themselves are finite

Regarding Jude 7 the following Interlinear does not say "suffering the vengeance of eternal fire", but the cities are "set forth as an example", "undergoing the penalty of fire aionion":
Jude 1 Interlinear Bible . Similarly, a literal version reads:

7 As Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them in like manner to these committing ultra-prostitution, and coming away after other flesh, are lying before us, a specimen, experiencing the justice of fire eonian." (Jude 7, CLV)

"The destruction of Sodom and the surrounding cities is still apparent to all who visit the region. In this way these cities are experiencing the justice of eonian fire. The fire has long ceased but its effects will remain and testify to God's judgment until the close of this eon, after which Sodom shall return to her former estate (Ezek.16:53-56)" (Concordant Commentary of the New Testament, p.376) Concordant Commentary on the New Testament

"We likewise subscribe to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, who "are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire" (Jude 7). This occurred many centuries ago. How poor a passage to apply to that which is thousands of years hence!"

"The word "set forth" is, literally, "lying before." The term "example" or specimen, is from the word show. These are readily comprehended if we apply them to the sites of Sodom and Gomorrah today. Their destruction was so complete that their exact location is in dispute. Now the preponderance of opinion places them under the shallow end of the Dead Sea. No one can visit this terrible desolation without fully appreciating the force of these words."

"But we are asked to forget this solemn and forceful scene for an "example" which no one can see, and which is not at all "set forth" or "lying before" us. We are asked to forget the fire (Gen.19:24) which destroyed these cities so that the smoke of the plain went up like the smoke of a furnace. The justice or "vengeance" of this fire is all too evident to this very day. It is a powerful reminder of God's judgment which should deter those who are tempted to follow a similar path. This fire is called "eternal." Just now the plain is covered by water, not fire. It was an eonian fire, as is witnessed by its effect for the eon."

"Speaking of Jerusalem, Ezekiel gives us God's thoughts concerning Sodom. "As I live, saith the Lord God, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters." And again, "When I shall bring again their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters...then will I bring again the captivity of thy captives in the midst of them...when thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate" (Ezek.16:48,53,55)."

"2 Peter 2:6 gives a parallel passage, where we read that God condemns the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, reducing them to cinders by an overthrow, having placed them for an example. This is perfectly plain, unless we try to distinguish between the cities and the people, and make conscious cinders suffer from flames beneath the waters of the Dead Sea."

"If the Sodomites were on public exhibition where all could see them suffering in the flames of a medieval hell, we might consider them as set forth as an example, but as no one has ever seen them, and no one can see them, they are no example at all. The cities, however, are lying before us as a specimen of God's eonian justice. The effects of the fire endure for the eon. When Jerusalem is restored, they will be restored."A Reply To “Universalism Refuted” Part Seven

Next we'll look at a 6th case that occurs in the book of Revelation where our phrase "the ages of the ages" is applied to God, either to His glory or living, etc:

(6) The book of Revelation makes several references to God living (or His glory) "for the eons of the eons" (Revelation 1:6, 18; 4:9-10; 5:13; 7:12; 10:6; 15:7). God living "into the eons of the eons" that end no more denies His future endless life than it denies He was living before the times of the eons (1 Cor.2:7; 2 Tim.1:9; Titus 1:2) that He created (Heb.1:2). "The existence of God is not confined to the eons. He made the eons; therefore, He existed before they began." Eons come & go, but He is both before & after them. Similarly, God is living for the present eon, but that doesn't mean He was dead before it, nor that He will be dead when it ends. Likewise He was living for past eons, but that doesn't mean He died when they ended. Likewise with His glory.

His “years shall not come to end” (Psa.102:27).

Further remarks on this point can be found in the following article in the section titled "Living For the Eons of the Eons": Eon As Indefinte Duration, Part Two

So we find the phrases "into ages of ages" & "into the ages of the ages" in 6 category types in Revelation:

- Rev.20:10 the torment of Satan & 2 others
- Rev.14:11 rising smoke of humans tormented
- Rev.19:3 rising smoke of a city burned
- Rev.22:5 saints reigning
- Rev.11:15 Christ reigning
- multiple references to God living or His glory

In at least 5 of the 6 category types above, the vast majority, we have said that the phrase in question is of limited duration. Even if, in the one other case, when the phrase refers to God, it somehow means "forever and ever", e.g. because God is forever, that has no bearing on the other 5 categories which do not connect the phrase with God's life or glory, and do not connect it with something or someone everyone knows is endless.

(7) As documented by scholar Illaria Ramelli, Origen & a number of other early church fathers spoke of an end of all ages & or an end of "ages of ages". See Ramelli's tome below, pages 8-10, 13-14, 112ff, 132, 157-8, 160-1, 167-8, 202. (Ilaria Ramelli, The Christian Doctrine of Apokatastasis: A Critical Assessment from the New Testament to Eriugena (Brill, 2013. 890 pp)
Preview of The Christian doctrine of Apokatastasis : a critical assessment from the New Testament to Eriugena [WorldCat.org]

"In Hom. in Ex. 6,13, similarly, Origen foresees the end of all aeons: “Whenever Scripture says, ‘from aeon to aeon,’ the reference is to an interval of time, and it is clear that it will have an end. And if Scripture says, ‘in another aeon,’ what is indicated is clearly a longer time, and yet an end is still fixed. And when the ‘aeons of the aeons’ are mentioned, a certain limit is again posited, perhaps unknown to us, but surely established by God.” (Ilaria Ramelli, The Christian Doctrine of Apokatastasis, p.161)

"Cf. Apoc. 14:10–11, where the smoke of the tormented sinners rises eis aiônas aiônôn, in saecula saeculorum, which does not self-evidently mean absolutely forever; for Origen,
as we shall see, this will be the time of the aiônes, before the apocatastasis which brings on the aïdiotês. Only the aïdiotês of the universal restoration will be truly forever." (Terms for Eternity: Aionios and Aidios in Classical and Christian Texts, Ilaria Ramelli and David Konstan, 2007, p.69)


continued at:

For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:

 

[St. John of the Cross]

Twelve points opposing the opinion that AION is not used of finite time in the Scriptures. The same 12 points showing that even the phrase "into the ages of the ages" is used of finite time in the Bible:

(1) The smoke going up forever and ever (literally, into the ages of the ages, Rev.19:3) is finite in duration. For the fire as the source of the smoke will cease burning after the city is "utterly burned" (Rev.18:8) & "found no more" (18:21). Also the old earth passes away (Rev.21:1), so how would the city continue to smoke "for ever and ever"?

(2) The saints reign for "the ages of the ages" (Rev.22:5). But this is only until all rule & all authority are abolished (1 Cor.15:24). Consequently one interpretation of the phrase "forever and ever" in Rev.22:5 is that it is of finite duration.

(3) Christ reigns "for the ages of the ages" (Rev.11:15). Since His reign is "until" He gives up the kingdom (1 Cor.15:25-26), His reign for "the ages of the ages" is temporary, as is "the ages of the ages" related to it.

(4) Since Scripture teaches universal reconciliaton (e.g. Rev.5:13; Col.1:20), "the ages of the ages" referred to in Rev.20:10 re the torment of the devil cannot be endless. Likewise with other lesser sinners [e.g. humans] that may be punished in the lake of fire (cf. Rev.14:11 which uses a similar phrase, "ages of ages", without the definite article "the").

(5) Comparing Rev.20:10 with Matthew 25:41, Jesus said the future of the devil & his angels is fire aionios (Mt.25:41, 46), mistranslated everlasting or "eternal fire" by pro ECT (eternal conscious torments) Bible versions (e.g. KJV). Fire aionios is also associated with the fire that burnt Sodom (Jude 7). That fire was not eternal, went out long ago, & its effects will last only until Sodom is restored (Ezek 16). Thus there is a Scriptural basis for taking the same phrase, fire aionios, which also occurs at Mt.25:41 & 18:8, as referring to a fire that is of finite duration. Likewise with "into eons of the eons" in Rev.20:10 which also refers to the devil's eonian (Mt.25:41) punishment associated with fire. So the devil's eon related punishment by fire in both Mt.25:41 & Rev.20:10 is finite. Therefore, the period "the eons of the eons" (Rev.20:10) must end. And surely since the devil's torments "into the ages of the ages" end, so do those related to human beings (cf. Rev.14:11; Mt.18:8; 25:41), for the same terminology is applied to them. Moreover, they are less sinful than Satan. If his punishment ends, then why not theirs also? Consequently the mistranslation "forever and ever" in Rev.20:10 & 14:11 refers to a finite period of time, with a beginning and an end.

Summing up the argument:

- eonian fire is finite (Jude 7)
- eonian fire is the devil's punishment (Mt.25:41)
- which is equal to his punishment in Rev.20:10
- therefore his punishment is finite &
- his torment for the eons of the eons is finite &
- the eons of the eons themselves are finite

Regarding Jude 7 the following Interlinear does not say "suffering the vengeance of eternal fire", but the cities are "set forth as an example", "undergoing the penalty of fire aionion":
Jude 1 Interlinear Bible . Similarly, a literal version reads:

7 As Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them in like manner to these committing ultra-prostitution, and coming away after other flesh, are lying before us, a specimen, experiencing the justice of fire eonian." (Jude 7, CLV)

"The destruction of Sodom and the surrounding cities is still apparent to all who visit the region. In this way these cities are experiencing the justice of eonian fire. The fire has long ceased but its effects will remain and testify to God's judgment until the close of this eon, after which Sodom shall return to her former estate (Ezek.16:53-56)" (Concordant Commentary of the New Testament, p.376) Concordant Commentary on the New Testament

"We likewise subscribe to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, who "are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire" (Jude 7). This occurred many centuries ago. How poor a passage to apply to that which is thousands of years hence!"

"The word "set forth" is, literally, "lying before." The term "example" or specimen, is from the word show. These are readily comprehended if we apply them to the sites of Sodom and Gomorrah today. Their destruction was so complete that their exact location is in dispute. Now the preponderance of opinion places them under the shallow end of the Dead Sea. No one can visit this terrible desolation without fully appreciating the force of these words."

"But we are asked to forget this solemn and forceful scene for an "example" which no one can see, and which is not at all "set forth" or "lying before" us. We are asked to forget the fire (Gen.19:24) which destroyed these cities so that the smoke of the plain went up like the smoke of a furnace. The justice or "vengeance" of this fire is all too evident to this very day. It is a powerful reminder of God's judgment which should deter those who are tempted to follow a similar path. This fire is called "eternal." Just now the plain is covered by water, not fire. It was an eonian fire, as is witnessed by its effect for the eon."

"Speaking of Jerusalem, Ezekiel gives us God's thoughts concerning Sodom. "As I live, saith the Lord God, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters." And again, "When I shall bring again their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters...then will I bring again the captivity of thy captives in the midst of them...when thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate" (Ezek.16:48,53,55)."

"2 Peter 2:6 gives a parallel passage, where we read that God condemns the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, reducing them to cinders by an overthrow, having placed them for an example. This is perfectly plain, unless we try to distinguish between the cities and the people, and make conscious cinders suffer from flames beneath the waters of the Dead Sea."

"If the Sodomites were on public exhibition where all could see them suffering in the flames of a medieval hell, we might consider them as set forth as an example, but as no one has ever seen them, and no one can see them, they are no example at all. The cities, however, are lying before us as a specimen of God's eonian justice. The effects of the fire endure for the eon. When Jerusalem is restored, they will be restored."A Reply To “Universalism Refuted” Part Seven

Next we'll look at a 6th case that occurs in the book of Revelation where our phrase "the ages of the ages" is applied to God, either to His glory or living, etc:

(6) The book of Revelation makes several references to God living (or His glory) "for the eons of the eons" (Revelation 1:6, 18; 4:9-10; 5:13; 7:12; 10:6; 15:7). God living "into the eons of the eons" that end no more denies His future endless life than it denies He was living before the times of the eons (1 Cor.2:7; 2 Tim.1:9; Titus 1:2) that He created (Heb.1:2). "The existence of God is not confined to the eons. He made the eons; therefore, He existed before they began." Eons come & go, but He is both before & after them. Similarly, God is living for the present eon, but that doesn't mean He was dead before it, nor that He will be dead when it ends. Likewise He was living for past eons, but that doesn't mean He died when they ended. Likewise with His glory.

His “years shall not come to end” (Psa.102:27).

Further remarks on this point can be found in the following article in the section titled "Living For the Eons of the Eons": Eon As Indefinte Duration, Part Two

So we find the phrases "into ages of ages" & "into the ages of the ages" in 6 category types in Revelation:

- Rev.20:10 the torment of Satan & 2 others
- Rev.14:11 rising smoke of humans tormented
- Rev.19:3 rising smoke of a city burned
- Rev.22:5 saints reigning
- Rev.11:15 Christ reigning
- multiple references to God living or His glory

In at least 5 of the 6 category types above, the vast majority, we have said that the phrase in question is of limited duration. Even if, in the one other case, when the phrase refers to God, it somehow means "forever and ever", e.g. because God is forever, that has no bearing on the other 5 categories which do not connect the phrase with God's life or glory, and do not connect it with something or someone everyone knows is endless.

(7) As documented by scholar Illaria Ramelli, Origen & a number of other early church fathers spoke of an end of all ages & or an end of "ages of ages". See Ramelli's tome below, pages 8-10, 13-14, 112ff, 132, 157-8, 160-1, 167-8, 202. (Ilaria Ramelli, The Christian Doctrine of Apokatastasis: A Critical Assessment from the New Testament to Eriugena (Brill, 2013. 890 pp)
Preview of The Christian doctrine of Apokatastasis : a critical assessment from the New Testament to Eriugena [WorldCat.org]

"In Hom. in Ex. 6,13, similarly, Origen foresees the end of all aeons: “Whenever Scripture says, ‘from aeon to aeon,’ the reference is to an interval of time, and it is clear that it will have an end. And if Scripture says, ‘in another aeon,’ what is indicated is clearly a longer time, and yet an end is still fixed. And when the ‘aeons of the aeons’ are mentioned, a certain limit is again posited, perhaps unknown to us, but surely established by God.” (Ilaria Ramelli, The Christian Doctrine of Apokatastasis, p.161)

"Cf. Apoc. 14:10–11, where the smoke of the tormented sinners rises eis aiônas aiônôn, in saecula saeculorum, which does not self-evidently mean absolutely forever; for Origen,
as we shall see, this will be the time of the aiônes, before the apocatastasis which brings on the aïdiotês. Only the aïdiotês of the universal restoration will be truly forever." (Terms for Eternity: Aionios and Aidios in Classical and Christian Texts, Ilaria Ramelli and David Konstan, 2007, p.69)


continued at:

For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:

I agree that the literal meaning is long lasting and doesn't have to refer to eternal but long lasting can refer to eternity. Eternity is a long duration or long continuance into the future. Because of these parallels both are eternal:


And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. - Matt. 25:46


And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting abhorrence. ~ Daniel

Since the long lasting life is eternal then the everlasting correction is eternal. Those in the fire are abhorred for all eternity. The gates of the city are open so that the people can go out to look and abhor the dead or lost souls. They aren't included in the new heavens and earth or new world.

“As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure. From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord. “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.” - Isaiah 66

 

[ClementofA]

I agree that the literal meaning is long lasting and doesn't have to refer to eternal but long lasting can refer to eternity. Eternity is a long duration or long continuance into the future. Because of these parallels both are eternal:

John,

Mt.25:46 was addressed in my post #25 of this thread.

And Dan. 12:2-3 in post #21.

God bless.

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

 

[ClementofA]

Quite the opposite. I am showing that that is your argument as you deny "eternal life" to be endless in the past. eternal life is Jesus Christ Himself.

Eternal life (1 Jn.1:2) is aionion life. Aionion is the Greek word that KJV translated "eternal" there.

Scripture teaches the aionion times had a beginning (Titus 1:2; 2 Tim.1:9) & the aions (eons, ages) had a beginning (1 Cor.2:7). Therefore aionion life must have had a beginning. So if you define Christ Himself as aionion life, you are defining Him as having had a beginning. This denies the Trinity and the Deity of Christ. And contradicts your (and my) belief that Christ is God & always was God, just as the Father and the Holy Spirit.

We see here that the "times eonian"(aionion) had a beginning:

in expectation of life eonian[aioniou], which God, Who does not lie, promises before times eonian[aionion], (Titus 1:2, CLV)

before eternal times (Titus 1:2, Greek-English Interlinear, ACVI): Online Parallel Study Bibles

Obviously there cannot be a "before eternal" past time. That would be nonsense. Therefore these "eternal"[aionion/eonian] times must have had a beginning.

Likewise with 2 Tim.1:9,

G4253προG5550χρόνωνG166αιωνίων
.....BEFORE.........TIMES.......AIONION(EONIAN)

"before times of the ages[aionion]":

2 Timothy 1:9 Interlinear: who did save us, and did call with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, that was given to us in Christ Jesus, before the times of the ages,

Who saves us and calls us with a holy calling, not in accord with our acts, but in accord with His own purpose and the grace which is given to us in Christ Jesus before times eonian, (2 Tim.1:9, CLV)

Similarly 1 Cor.2:7 speaks of "before the eons"[aionon], i.e. "before the ages" (NASB).
And Jude 1:25 says "before all the eons"[aionos], i.e. "before all ages" (NIV).

The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

So whatever you think of the "aionios life" in John 1:2, it cannot be eternal in the past and had a beginning.

In fact there is reason to think it refers to life in the age to come (e.g. the millennial age eon) and/or to the following age of the second death in the new earth. Which lasts until death is abolished (1 Cor.15:26) & God becomes "all in all" (v.28), even in all who were in Adam (v.22).

Christ is that life of those ages. Believers obtain it. The wicked do not. Yet eventually all shall be saved (Rom.5:18-19; Rev.5:13, etc).

N.T. Wright is considered to be a leading NT scholar & his translation renders "life aionios" as "the life of God's coming age" (1 Jn.1:2, NTE). Compare:

Weymouth New Testament
the Life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness, and we declare unto you the Life of the Ages which was with the Father and was manifested to us--

Young's Literal Translation
and the Life was manifested, and we have seen, and do testify, and declare to you the Life, the age-during, which was with the Father, and was manifested to us --

And the life was manifested, and we have seen and are testifying and reporting to you the life eonian which was toward the Father and was manifested to us. (CLV)

And, the Life, was made manifest, and we have seen, and are bearing witness, and announcing unto you, the Age-abiding Life, which, indeed, was with the Father, and was made manifest unto us; (Ro)

(and the life was manifested, and we have seen, and we bear testimony, and we declare to you the life the age-lasting, which was with the Father, and was manifested to us (Diaglott Greek-English interlinear)

...the AIONIAN LIFE...(Diaglott margin)

and announce to you the life of the Age...(The NT: A Translation, by EO scholar David Bentley Hart, 2017).

Indeed the Chayyei [Olam] was manifested, and we have seen it and we give solemn eidus (witness of testimony) and we proclaim to you the Chayyei Olam which was alongside with HaAv [Yochanan 1:1-4,14] and made hisgalus (appearance of, exposure of in revelation) to us [Shlichim]. (OJB)

Speaking of OLAM, we now turn to Dan.12:2-3, which also supports the above position:

The context suggests the view that both the life & the punishment referred to in v.2 are of finite duration (OLAM), since v.3 speaks of those who will be for OLAM "and further".

2 From those sleeping in the soil of the ground many shall awake, these to eonian life and these to reproach for eonian repulsion." 3 The intelligent shall warn as the warning of the atmosphere, and those justifying many are as the stars for the eon and further." (Dan.12:2-3, CLV)

The Hebrew word for eonian (v.2) & eon (v.3) above is OLAM which is often used of limited durations in the OT. In verse 3 of Dan. 12 are the words "OLAM and further" showing an example of its finite duration in the very next words after Dan. 12:2. Thus, in context, the OLAM occurences in v.2 could also both be understood as being of finite duration.

Additionally, the early church accepted the following Greek OT translation of the Hebrew OT of Dan. 12:3:

καὶ οἱ συνιέντες ἐκλάμψουσιν ὡς ἡ λαμπρότης τοῦ στερεώματος καὶ ἀπὸ τῶν δικαίων τῶν πολλῶν ὡς οἱ ἀστέρες εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας καὶ ἔτι[and further]

Notice the words at the end saying KAI ETI, meaning "and further" or "and still" or "and yet" & other synonyms.

eti: "still, yet...Definition: (a) of time: still, yet, even now, (b) of degree: even, further, more, in addition." Strong's Greek: 2089. ἔτι (eti) -- still, yet

εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας καὶ ἔτι means "into the ages and further" as a translation of the Hebrew L'OLAM WA ED[5703, AD]

So this early church Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures agrees with the above translation (& those below) using the words "and further", "futurity", "beyond" & similarly.

3 and·the·ones-being-intelligent they-shall- warn as·warning-of the·atmosphere
and·ones-leading-to-righteousness-of the·many-ones as·the·stars for·eon and·futurity (Dan. 12:3, Hebrew-English Interlinear)
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/dan12.pdf

2 and, many of the sleepers in the dusty ground, shall awake,—these, [shall be] to age-abiding life, but, those, to reproach, and age-abiding abhorrence;
3 and, they who make wise, shall shine like the shining of the expanse,—and, they who bring the many to righteousness, like the stars to times age-abiding and beyond. (Dan. 12:2-3, Rotherham)

2 And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to life age-during, and some to reproaches—to abhorrence age-during.
3 And those teaching do shine as the brightness of the expanse, and those justifying the multitude as stars to the age and for ever*. (Dan. 12:2-3, YLT)
* for "for ever" Young of YLT says substitute "age during" everywhere in Scripture: http://heraldmag.org/olb/Contents/bibles/ylt.pdf

Dan. 12:2-3 was the only Biblical reference to "life OLAM" Jesus listeners had to understand His meaning of "life aionios"(life OLAM) in Mt.25:46 & elsewhere in the New Testament.

Verse 3 speaks of those justifying "many". Who are these "many"? The same "many" of verse 2, including those who were resurrected to "shame" & "contempt"? IOW the passage affirms universalism?

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

 

[ClementofA]

“As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure. From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord. “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.” - Isaiah 66

John,

(1) First of all, Isa.66:22-24 makes no mention of what has become of the souls of the "corpses" referred to:

23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

(2) Secondly, nothing in verses 22-24 says verses 23 & 24 refer to the lake of fire or the new earth. Consider Option A at the following re a premillennial take on Isa.65 & 66:

Isaiah 65-66: The Vision (Part 3) - Wasilla Bible Church

(3) I wonder how "corpses" (v.24) would survive in a lake of fire. Or worms (v.24) . OTOH worms could survive in a millennial eon garbage dump called Gehenna. As could "corpses" survive that were in parts of the garbage dump that were not completely consumed by fire.

(4) If it were the new earth, why does verse 23 refer to new moons and the sabbath?

“The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee; but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory” (Isa.60:19)

Rev.21:22 But I saw no temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 And the city has no need for sun or moon to shine on it, because the glory of God illuminates the city, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24 By its light the nations will walk, and into it the kings of the earth will bring their glory.

(5) Even if the reference is to the new earth, if there are still "corpses" of the dead in the lake of fire, how is it that death has already been abolished (1 Cor.15:22-28)?

"Just as surely as the abolition of slavery entails freedom for those formerly enslaved, the abolition of death entails life for those formerly dead."

(6) For an interesting take on our passage, there is this alleged view:

"It is interesting that many of these comments touch on the concept that is well-articulated by C.S. Lewis' mentor, George McDonald, in his sermon, "The Consuming Fire." The concept is that God himself is the consuming fire and he will burn away all our iniquities, including those of Satan, who will emerge from the experience as the purified Lucifer, as he was created to be. This is what is pictured in Isaiah 66:24 where all beings will look upon their old selves as carcasses burning in God's eternally consuming fire. To understand this picture one must realize that the perspective is that of a totally redeemed eternal being looking back on his or her past life and sensing some regret for their own sins."

Origen on the Salvation of the Devil

7) In any case, when death is abolished (1 Cor.15:22-28) & all are made new (Rev.21:5, 5:13), the dead in the second death (lake of fire) will rise back to life "in Christ" & God will be "all in all" (1 Cor.15:22,28). IOW there will be universal salvation of every person that has ever lived since Adam was created.

Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism


v. 49 "For everyone will be salted with fire."

Nothing there says tortures are endless. Instead it refers to a fire and worm. And a fire that is not quenched can end or burn out on it's own, as proven by:

"Let us see how the word "asbestos (unquenchable) was used by the Greeks. Strabo calls it the lamp in the Parthenon, and Plutarch calls the sacred fire of a temple "unquenchable," though they were extinguished long ago. Josephus, the Jewish Priest who saw the destruction of Jerusalem says that the fire on the altar of the temple at Jerusalem was "always unquenchable" abeston aei, yet he was there when the fire on the altar was forever extinguished. Eusibius, the church historian who lived in Constantine's day says that certain martyrs of Alexandria "were burned in unquenchable fire." The fire was put out within an hour! Homer speaks of "unquenchable laughter" asbestos gelos, (Iliad, I: 599)"

Bible Threatening Explained

Nothing here says they stay in Gehenna for endless ages, so can't come out. Neither does it say that while in Gehenna there is no salvation. In the book of Revelation the gates into the city of God are always open. God says He is making "all" new (21:5).

unquenchabe is limited not endless...ancient examples given here:

A key to Universalism

Mark 9:43: "into Gehenna, into the unextinguished fire." First, the word "unquenchable" in the Bible is translated from the Greek word asbestos which simply means "not quenched." In itself, that is not the same as "not ABLE to be quenched" or "unquenchable." It is similar to God's judgments being without appeal "until they have finished all his plans:"

"The fierce anger of the LORD will not diminish until it has finished all his plans. In the days to come, you will understand all this.."(Jer 30:24).

As for an immortal worm that never dies, some ECT commentators say it refers to the immortal soul. ECTers can't agree amongst themselves what it means & Jesus didn't elaborate. In Isaiah 66 the worm is spoken of in the same verse that speaks of "corpses". So, they could be eating dead bodies during the millennial age eon.

"Perhaps unbeknownst to many traditionalists who cite this verse as a challenge to conditionalism, Jesus is quoting Isaiah 66:24 here, in which it is said explicitly that it is
corpses being consumed by fire and maggots—not living beings. Those traditionalists who are aware of this nevertheless insist that the worm is depicted as never dying and the fire as never going out. But this is not what these idioms communicate."

"The phrase “does not die” is used several times in the Hebrew scripture and does not mean will never die (Genesis 42:20; Exodus 30:20; Jeremiah 38:24). It means that someone or something will not die at a particular time or in a particular context."

how do people who believe in eternal torture in fire

So such references could be about eating sinners sins or evil flesh nature till it is gone.




"Interesting aside, for what it may mean to anyone... Maggots are making a comeback in modern medicine. They gently debride wounds in a way no surgeon, however subtle, could possibly achieve. (Medical Maggots™ (maggot therapy, maggot debridement therapy, MDT, biotherapy, biosurgery, biodebridement, larval therapy) | Monarch Labs - Advanced Wound BioSurgery) They nibble away the dead and decaying cells, allowing healthy, new, regenerated cells to thrive instead. Maggots only eat dead tissue, leaving the living tissue to thrive. I think there's a big parallel there, but maybe I'm taking the "book of nature" to extremes. My husband's doctor at Mayo
told me they had them there, available by prescription only--special hygienic ones, of course! :lol: "

"All these things we consider to be bad (by knee-jerk reaction at least) can also be seen as good--judgment, brimstone (aka sulfur & also used in medicine then and now), even maggots. Fire also is used in scripture as symbolic of purification--and we mustn't forget the nature of our God, who is, we're told, "a consuming fire."

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"Now, salt too, just as the divine fire, is associated with the
eschatological test in Mark 9:49, a text I have already analysed, where this fire is presented as purifying and performing the disinfecting function of salt: “all will be salted by this fire,” if they have lost their salt in this life."
(Ilaria Ramelli, The Christian Doctrine of Apokatastasis: A Critical Assessment from the New Testament to Eriugena (Brill, 2013. 890 pp., p.53)

"Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there [Gehenna]
until you have paid up the last cent. The word ―until unmistakably confirms Gehenna is of a limited duration. Once the penalty is exacted, release follows, but not before. Note He addressed these words to a mixed audience of believers and unbelievers (Mt. 5:1;7:28; 8:1). (See also Mt. 18:34-35)." http://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

Jn.1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

4:39 Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman’s testimony, “He told me everything I ever did.” 40 So when the Samaritans came to him, they urged him to stay with them, and he stayed two days. 41 And because of his words many more became believers.
42 They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

 

[Der Alte]

. . . Also another Early Church Father by the name of Origen spoke of what is "after" and "beyond" aionios life. As a native Greek speaker & scholar he knew the meaning of the word:
"...in the one who drinks of the water that Jesus gives leaps into eternal life. And after eternal life, perhaps it will also leap into the Father who is beyond eternal life." (Comm. in Io 13.3) . . .

One again the false teaching of UR rears its ugly head. No matter how many times I correct this false out-of-context "quote" it is posted over and over and over again. This clearly shows how corrupt and bankrupt UR is.
.....Here is the quote from Origen in context.

(18) For, as there, the bridegroom leaps upon souls that are more noble-natured and divine, called mountains, and skips upon the inferior ones called hills, [Song 2:8] so here the fountain that appears in the one who drinks of the water that Jesus gives leaps into eternal life. [John 4:14]
(19) And after eternal life, perhaps it [the fountain vs. 18] will also leap into the Father who is beyond eternal life. For Christ is life but he who is greater than Christ is greater than life.
(20) when the promise to the one who is blessed because he hungers and thirsts for righteousness is fulfilled, then he who drinks of the water that Jesus will give will have the fountain of water that leaps into eternal life arise within him.​

What does Origen say is after or beyond "eternal life?" After the fountain leaps into eternal life PERHAPS it, the fountain, also leaps into the father who is beyond eternal life.
.....Later in the same writing Origen says this about eternal life.

(6o) And he has explained the statement, But “he shall not thirst forever:” as follows with these very words: for the life which comes from the well is eternal and never perishes, as indeed, does the first life which comes from the well,; the life he gives remains. For the grace and the gift of our Savior is not taken away, nor is it consumed, nor does it perish, when one partakes of it. P. 81
Commentary on the Gospel According to John​

Eternal life “never perishes,””remains.””is not taken away,””[is not] consumed,””[does not] perish.”

 

[Der Alte]

. . .
corpses being consumed by fire and maggots—not living beings. Those traditionalists who are aware of this nevertheless insist that the worm is depicted as never dying and the fire as never going out. But this is not what these idioms communicate."...

The Jewish writings the Jewish Encyclopedia, Talmud and Encyclopedia Judaica inform us what those idioms communicate.

(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell (B.M. 83b).
But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [ שׁאול /Sheol]] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according to Isa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).
Link:Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.
During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; see *Moloch). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Gehinnom
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [follower of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]: "And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written [Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more. Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link:Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.​

(3) I wonder how "corpses" (v.24) would survive in a lake of fire. Or worms (v.24) . OTOH worms could survive in a millennial eon garbage dump called Gehenna. As could "corpses" survive that were in parts of the garbage dump that were not completely consumed by fire.

I wonder how the bush survived when Moses saw it burning but not being consumed?

Exodus 3:2
(2) And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.​

And I wonder how Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah survived in the furnace heated 7 times hotter than normal?

Daniel 3:24-25
(24) Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
(25) He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.​

 

[he-man]

Recently I’ve spent a fair bit of time interacting with some of my brothers and sisters in Christ who are Universalists. I’ve read some of their material, including one of the best books supporting their view. I have engaged with them in debates on forums. The Universalists I’ve been engaging with are Christians who believe Jesus is the only way to salvation. They realize that many people die without accepting Jesus. They agree with other Christians that these unbelievers will be resurrected to face judgment. But they believe the purpose of that judgment, and of the suffering the unrighteous will endure, is to lead them to accept Christ. These Universalists believe that everyone eventually will accept Christ and be released from their time of judgment in the lake of fire and be accepted into God’s eternal kingdom.

There are many arguments for and against Universalism. Not only are there many arguments, there are many types of arguments. Some of the arguments are based on theological principles, others on philosophical reasoning, and still others on the interpretation of specific passages and verses. Of course, many arguments are a mix of theology, philosophy, and exegesis.

In this article I am going to focus on two verses and one key word. These two v

I understand your interpretation Mark, though let's consider if there might be another equally reasonable interpretation.

Chrysostom is saying some think of punishment as being PROSKAIROS (for a season), rather than AIONION (eonian, pertaining to an eon or eons, age, [long] lasting).

Chrysostom is arguing that Scripture does not say punishment(chastening or corrective discipline) is only for a season, only for a few months, but that it is EONIAN, lasting for a long time, an epoch, age, or ages, eon or eons.

[BTW, similarly, there was an ancient belief of some of the Jewish Rabbis that those who go to Gehenna come out of it later, one view saying they stay up to 12 months maximum.]

The contrast is between a very short time and a very long time.

If you look in English dictionaries, they also make similar contrasts. They say, for example, that "moment" is the opposite [antonym] of "age", eon, etc.. Just as short is the opposite of long.

So i suggest that Chrysostom, and St Paul, was making a similar contrast, between a momentary or seasonal period of time, and another period of time of relatively great duration.

For a meaning of PROSKAIROS being "for a season":

Strong's Greek: 4340. πρόσκαιρος (proskairos) -- in season, i.e. temporary

"It is often claimed that in 2 Corinthians 4:18, “eonian” (aiõnion) must mean “eternal” because it is set in contrast to the word “temporal,” meaning pertaining to time as opposed to eternity. The Greek word, however, translated “temporal” in the AV (proskaira) has no connection with the word for “time” (chronos); in English form, the Greek is literally TOWARD-SEASON, and means “temporary” or “for [only] a part of a season.”

"Contrastive terms need not be antithetical in meaning. Our Lord deemed it sufficient contrast to compare temporary (i.e., a part of a season) with a single season–less than a year (Matt.13:21). Yet here, in 2 Corinthians 4:18, while the contrast is far greater, it does not follow that it is therefore infinite. The contrast is between our afflictions, which last, so to say, but for a brief “partial season,” and our promised, long-enduring “eonian” glory which lasts throughout the oncoming eons, until the consummation, when God is All in all. The eonian life and glory which is our special portion (cp 1 Tim.4:10b; 2 Tim.2:10,11), no more debars the endless life and glory in which we shall participate as well (cp Luke 1:33b; 1 Thess.4:17b; 1 Cor.15:28), than youthful happiness precludes the happiness of maturity.”

Eon As Indefinte Duration, Part Two
A Reply To “Universalism Refuted” Part Four

"Now, in this passage, Paul is using proskairos and aiónios in contrast with each other. But notice that he is not contrasting time (which would be the word "chronos" in Greek) with timelessness. Instead, he is contrasting two different measures of temporal duration (i.e., two different measures of time). In Matthew 13:21, Christ employs proskairos to denote a relatively short measure of time. It is used in reference to those who hear the gospel and endure in their faith for only "a short while" in contrast to those who, after hearing the word, keep it and go on to produce fruit. Christ is not contrasting a temporary period of time with an endless measure of time; rather, Christ is contrasting a relatively short measure of time which does not result in the production of "fruit" with a relatively longer period of time that does (similarly, in Hebrews 11:25, proskairos is translated "a short season" or "fleeting," and denotes the relatively short-lived enjoyment that sin brings). But the opposite of proskairos isn't endless duration, for proskairos doesn't mean finite duration. Its meaning is clearly relative to whatever is in view. Again, when Christ uses the word in Matt 13:21, he isn't contrasting a person who endures in his faith for a finite period of time with a person who endures in his faith for an infinite period of time; he's contrasting a relatively short period of time with a relatively longer period of time (i.e., relative to a person's mortal lifespan)."

"In the context of 2 Corinthians 4-5, proskairos conveys a relatively short measure of time (i.e., duration confined to a mortal lifetime, during which time one can see and experience one's mortal self "wasting away"). Aiónios, on the other hand, while not meaning endless duration, denotes a much longer duration of time (i.e., the duration of the eons to come, the full length of which is not explicitly revealed in Scripture). So when Paul says that "the things that are seen" are proskairos (i.e., fleeting, or pertaining to a relatively short measure of time) while "the things that are unseen" are aiónios (i.e., pertaining to, or enduring through, the eons to come) he places our present, mortal bodies in the former category of things, and our future, immortal bodies in the latter category of things."

"But why does Paul refer to our immortal bodies as "eonian, in the heavens," since this word does not denote endless duration? It's because he has in view the blessing that will be enjoyed exclusively by believers, prior to the time that Paul calls "the consummation" (i.e., when death is abolished by Christ and all are vivified or "made alive" in him). Paul has in view only those who are members of the body of Christ, and the heavenly allotment they alone will enjoy during these coming eons. This blessing for believers (in which they will enjoy immortality in heaven during the final two eons) is eonian in duration, not "eternal." When the last two eons (the eons of Christ's reign) come to an end, the believer will not lose his immortality. He will continue to live. But his life will, at this time, no longer pertain to (or be enduring through) the eons of Christ's reign. The special, eonian salvation he enjoyed as a result of being in the body of Christ will have come to an end. For at this time, God's "purpose of the eons" will have reached its goal: all people will have been made immortal and saved, and God will be "all in all." "

That Happy Expectation: January 2015

Even if by aionion Chrysostom means eternal in 2 Cor. 4:18, he still uses aionios of a finite duration no longer than an age in his other quote. Which would indicate that, as you yourself evidently agree, words often have a range of meanings. This is what universalists usually say re the word aionios. The question, then, is, what is its meaning, in the range of its possible meanings, in key passages that speak of punishment of the lost after Christ's return.

erses, if read and interpreted at face value, decisively refute Universalism. Here are those two verses with the key word highlighted:

CSB Matthew 25:46 "And they will go away into eternal (aionios) punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

CSB 2 Thessalonians 1:9 These will pay the penalty of eternal (aionios) destruction from the Lord's presence and from His glorious strength​

If the punishment of the unrighteous is eternal, then Universalism is not true. Likewise, if the unrighteous suffer destruction which is eternal, then of course they will not be saved.

The Universalist response to this evidence which is fatal to their view is to argue that aionios should not be translated “eternal”. Their arguments may be convincing to some, but they are not convincing to me. But I don’t expect you to just take my word for it. I will try to explain the evidence which shows that in the context of Matthew 25:46 and 2 Thessalonians 1:9, the many different teams of translators who chose “eternal” or “everlasting” to translate aionios were correct to do so. Beginning in Part 2 of this post, I will try to explain the weaknesses and errors I see in the Universalist counterarguments. This topic is by nature a bit technical, but I think I can explain it in a way that will make sense even if you’ve never been blessed with the opportunity to study Greek or linguistics.

1. Defining Aionios

Most words have a range of meaning. Words tend to have several different precise meanings which are all related. This can be easily seen by looking at a good English dictionary.

Consider the verb “fly”. It has a number of related meanings (this list is not complete):

1. To move through the air by means of wings
Birds fly south in winter.
2. To move or travel by air
We flew to Seattle for vacation.
3. To pilot an aircraft or spacecraft
The crew flew from New York to Mexico City.
4. To rise in or be carried through the air by the wind
Dust and pollen flew through the air.
5. To float or flutter in the air
Pennants flying from buildings.
6.To pass by swiftly
The vacation flew by.
7. To cause to float of flutter in the wind
Fly a kite.
(These definitions and sentences are taken from The American Heritage Student Dictionary, 1998, Houghton Milton, pg. 393).​

You’ll notice that for each definition of “fly” the dictionary included a sample sentence. Gathering real life examples of sentences spoken or written by native speakers of a language is one of the main ways a lexicographer (a person who makes a dictionary) determines the various definitions of words. The range of meaning of aionios in the New Testament can be determined using this method. Some words are not used frequently enough in the New Testament to determine their meaning, and in these cases it is necessary to look for examples in Greek outside the New Testament from as close to the same time and location as the Biblical authors as possible. Fortunately, aionios occurs 71 times in the New Testament. This is enough data to come up with a good list of definitions. Later we will consider some examples from outside the New Testament.

1.1 Defining aionios using New Testament examples

We will want to choose examples where the meaning is obvious. There are some sentences where the meaning is not obvious. For example:

ESV Jn. 6:47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal (aionios) life.​

If this sentence is taken all by itself, out of context, there is not enough in the sentence to determine what aionios means. We might guess that it is something good, but it could mean “good”, “happy”, “safe”, “successful”, “fruitful”, “meaningful”, or many other things. Thankfully, as we’ll soon see, there are other sentences where the meaning of aionios is quite obvious.

Just as there were multiple, related meanings of “fly”, we will see some related meanings for aionios. Specifically, we will see a slight difference in meaning depending on whether the sentence using aionios is (1) looking forward in time, (2) back in time, or (3) at the whole of time, both forward and backward.

1.1.1. New Testament verses where aionios is looking forward in time.

ESV Rom. 2:7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal (aionios) life;​

In this example aionios life is seen to be equivalent to immortality. Since immortality means never dying, aionios life is life that never ends. Here we see one common meaning:

aionios: that which continues in time without ever ending, eternal

There are other verses where this definition is equally clear:

ESV Jn. 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal (aionios) life.​

Because having aionios life is the opposite of perishing, it stands to reason that this means life which never ends.

ESV 2 Cor. 4:18 as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal (aionios).​

Here aionios is seen to be the opposite of transient. The Greek word translated “transient” is proskairos and means “of what continues for a limited time” (from the Friberg Greek Lexicon). So, aionios refers to things which do not continue only for a limited time.

We are truly blessed to have such clear examples of the meaning of aionios when looking forward in time in the New Testament. Aionios life is immortal life, it is the life of one who does not perish, and aionios is the opposite of something lasting for a limited time. In other words, all those Bible translation teams for all the various translations used widely by Christians got it right. Aionios does in fact mean eternal.

Because the specific uses of aionios we are concerned with (Matthew 25:46 and 2 Thessalonians 1:9) look forward in time, we might stop here. But let’s briefly look at the other two related meanings of aionios which are found in the New Testament.

1.1.2. New Testament verses where aionios is looking back in time.

There are just three verses in the New Testament where aionios is used in a setting which is looking backwards into time as opposed to looking forward or looking at all time. Here they are. I’ve included two translations of each:

CSB Romans 16:25 Now to Him who has power to strengthen you according to my gospel and the proclamation about Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept silent for long ages (kronos aionios)

ESV Romans 16:25 Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages (kronois aionion)

CSB 2 Timothy 1:9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began (pro kronon aionion).

ESV 2 Timothy 1:9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began (pro kronon aionion),

CSB Titus 1:2 in the hope of eternal life that God, who cannot lie, promised before time began (pro kronon aionion).

ESV Titus 1:2 in hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began (pro kronon aionion)

Note: Greek words change their endings depending on their grammatical use in a sentence, as some English words do (i.e., sent and send). Thus, “aionion” in the sentences above is the same Greek word as “aionios” and “kronon” is the same as “kronos.”​

.
Those who have studied the phrases in these passages have seen two possibilities.

1. When only looking backward in time, aionios may be used to refer to a very long but limited period of time . The main argument for this is that the Greek preposition pro usually means “before” when referring to time. Kronos means time. It appears impossible for anything to happen “before eternity past”, therefore it is reasoned that aionios here cannot literally mean “without beginning”, but must mean something like “going way back”.

A second argument in favor of this view is that in Titus 1:2 it is said that God “promised”. Promises are usually made to someone who can hear them, which would seem to imply that someone (like Adam or perhaps Abraham) is in mind. If this is true, aionios obviously cannot be referring to eternity past, since no one existed in eternity past accept God.

2. The above argument initially sounds airtight, and when I started researching this issue I thought it was probably correct, although it produced a definition for aionios from three verses looking back in time which did not seem neatly symmetrical to the definitions for aionios which are clearly seen in the many verses which look forward in time or look at all time. It turns out that there is evidence to support the possibility that even in these three verses, aionios, means “without beginning”, and is referring to what we call “eternity past”.

The phrase pro kronon aionion may be an idiomatic way of saying “from all eternity past”. Consider a similar phrase in Jude 1:25:

CSB Jude 1:25 to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, power, and authority before all time (pro pantos tou aionos), now and forever. Amen.​

It will help to realize that aionos is the plural of the noun aion, not a form of the adjective aionios. A word for word literal translation of pro pantos tou aionos would be “before all the ages”. Surely Jude did not intend to leave a gap in time here so that God received glory before the all ages, then there is a gap during the past ages up until “now” when He starts to receive glory again. Jude seems to be using pro pantos tou aionos here to include all time in the past. It seems that pro kronon aionion could be used in a similar way meaning “throughout all past time back into eternity”.

As far as God making a promise in Titus 1:2, it is possible to make a promise to one’s self about something you intend to later do for someone else. In God’s case, such a “promise” would be 100% certain to later be fulfilled, and would later be revealed to us. Concerning Titus 1:2, Henry Alford makes precisely this same argument:

promised from eternal ages (the very distinct use of πρὸ χρόνων αἰωνίων in 2 Timothy 1:9, where the meaning ‘from ancient times’ is precluded, should have kept Commentators from endeavouring to fix that sense on the words here. The solution of the difficulty, that no promise was actually made till the race of man existed, must be found by regarding, as in 2 Tim. l. c., the construction as a mixed one,—compounded of the actual promise made in time, and the divine purpose from which that promise sprung, fixed in eternity. Thus, as there God is said to have given us grace in Christ from eternal ages, meaning that the gift took place as the result of a divine purpose fixed from eternity, so here He is said to have promised eternal life from eternal ages, meaning that the promise took place as the result of a purpose fixed from eternity. (from Alford, Henry. "Commentary on Titus 1:2". Greek Testament Critical Exegetical Commentary. https:Titus 1 Commentary - Greek Testament Critical Exegetical Commentary. 1863-1878.)​

My conclusion is that when looking back in time, aionios might refer to “a very long time ago”, but more likely refers to “a time without beginning, from eternity past”. Even if it refers to “a very long time ago”, this meaning of a long, but limited time is ONLY found in passages looking back in time in the New Testament, never in passages looking forward in time.

1.1.3. New Testament verses where aionios is looking at all time

Where aionios refers to God, or God’s purposes, it is most likely and natural that it means “time without beginning and without end”. Here are some examples:

ESV Rom. 16:26 but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith—

CSB Hebrews 9:14 how much more will the blood of the Messiah, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works to serve the living God?​

1.1.4. Conclusion from the examples we have looked at

Aionios means:

1. “for time without end,” “continuing for all eternity,” “permanent,” “never ending,” “eternal” when referring to the future.
2. either “for a long time into the past,” or, more likely “from time without beginning,” “from eternity past,” when referring to the past.
3. “for all eternity,”,when referring to God, looking both back in time to eternity past and forward to eternity future.​

Looking at all the uses of aionios in the New Testament, I cannot find a single sentence where the definitions given above are not an excellent fit.

1.2 Defining aionios using Greek lexicons

By looking at sample sentences from the New Testament, we have just done some of the work which is done by those who make Greek lexicons. Of course, the people who make Greek lexicons are experts at this type of work, so we will want to compare our conclusions with theirs. The Lexicons I use most frequently are: (1) The Friberg Greek Lexicon, (2) Thayer Greek Lexicon, and (3) Danker Lexicon (these three I have as part of the BibleWorks program), and (4) A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature which is often referred to as BDAG. I did not cherry-pick these lexicons. They are honestly the ones I most frequently use. Many scholars consider BDAG to be the “gold standard”.

All four of these lexicons agree very closely with the definitions we found above by looking at example sentences. That’s not surprising since they are looking at the same sentences in the New Testament! Here’s a summary of their definitions. For two of the lexicons I provide summaries because the full entries are long, but I encourage you to look and see for yourself that I have not left out any part of an entry that is contrary to the definitions given above:

1.2.1 The Friberg Lexicon

The Friberg Lexicon entry:

αἰώνιος, ον (sometimes ος, ία, ον) eternal, everlasting, opposite πρόσκαιρος (temporary, transitory); (1) of God without beginning or end, eternal (RO 16.26); (2) without beginning (RO 16.25); (3) without end, everlasting (2C 5.1); (4) neuter singular αἰώνιον as an adverb for all time, forever ​

1.2.2 A Summary of Thayer’s definitions

1. without beginning or end, that which always has been and always will be
2. without beginning
3. without end, never to cease, everlasting:​

1.2.3 Danker’s Lexicon Entry

αἰώνιος, α, ον [αἰών] – 1. ‘relating to a period of time extending far into the past’, long ages ago Ro 16:25. In 2 Ti 1:9; Tit 1:2 the prep. πρό invites the rendering before time began. – 2. ‘relating to time without boundaries or interruption’, eternal Ro 16:26; Hb 9:14. – 3. relating to a period of unending duration’, permanent, lasting Lk 16:9; 2 Cor 5:1; Hb 5:9. ​

1.2.4 A Summary of BDAG’s Entry

αἰώνιος
1. without beginning
2. without beginning or end
3. without end​

1.2.5 Other Lexicons

I was greatly encouraged that my favorite Lexicons unanimously came up with the same list of definitions for aionios which I find by looking at examples in the New Testament. But “Mark’s favorite lexicons” are not the only legitimate sources to check. There are some lexicons and other reference sources which give meanings which support the Universalist view. Some of these lexicons and sources may have been produced by Universalists or others with an axe to grind, but at least one well known lexicon gives an entry which could support the Universalist view.

The Liddel-Scott lexicon, which is available on the very helpful Perseus website, includes the following entry:

αἰώνιος
also α, ον Pl. Ti.37d, Ep.Heb.9.12:—lasting for an age ( αἰών 11), perpetual, eternal (but dist. fr. ἀΐδιος, Plot.3.7.3), μέθη​

“Lasting for an age” is precisely the definition which many Universalists argue for. But on closer inspection, Liddel-Scott’s definition does not appear to be well supported. As far as I can tell, the only New Testament example given is from Hebrew 9:12. Let’s look at that verse, which does use the word aionios:

CSB Hebrews 9:12 He entered the most holy place once for all, not by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own blood, having obtained eternal (aionios) redemption.​

It’s hardly obvious that in this sentence aionios means merely “lasting for an age” instead of “lasting forever”. In fact, most of us hope that our redemption does last forever, and the teaching of scripture strongly supports this hope.

correction: In comment #3, ClementofA correctly notes that I missed some New Testament references in Liddel-Scott. I don't have a hard copy of that Lexicon, and I suspect that I only saw part of the entry on my screen. This is a helpful correction. Thanks! However, the other New Testament references also do not include any examples where aionios is looking towards the future and is not referencing something which reasonably could be eternal. In fact, there are no New Testament examples like that. I've checked every one.
When Universalists quote various sources and references concerning aionios, I recommend you ask this question: What sample sentences from the New Testament are given to support aionios referring to a limited time period going into the future? Even lexicons can be wrong.

1.3 Bible Translations

It’s very likely that every Bible translation which you have ever owned or heard preached from translates aionion as “eternal” or “everlasting” in Matthew 25:46. The view I’m arguing for basically says that your English translation in this case is correct.

Here are some of the well-known translations where you will find the phrase “eternal punishment” or “everlasting punishment”: American Standard Version, Christian Standard Bible, English Standard Bible, King James Version, New American Standard, New English Translation, New International Version, New King James Version, New Living Translation, New Revised Standard Version, and the Revised Standard Version.

Are there any translations which support the Universalist view? Yes. Most of them you have probably never heard of, and perhaps for good reason! One you may have heard of is Young’s Literal Translation:

YLT Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'​

At least Young is consistent! He has both the punishment of the unrighteous and the life of the righteous only lasting for an undefined “age”. He translates aionios in John 3:16 the same way:

YLT John 3:16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.​

Young’s translation is just plain wrong in the way it translates aionios. What does “age-during” even mean? It’s terrible English and it’s a terrible translation. Even for a “literal translation”, the phrase “age-during” is just plain wrong as a definition for aionios. Young has probably made the error of basing the meaning of the adjective aionios on its related noun, aion. This error will be examined in part 2 of this post.

In part 1, I have tried to define aionios and explain why this definition is correct.

The definition of aionios I have explained here leads to the conclusion that based on Matthew 25:46 and 2 Thessalonians 1:9 those found to be unrighteous on judgment day will experience eternal punishment and specifically eternal destruction. Therefore, they will never enter God’s kingdom and Universalism is false.

Starting in part 2, I will examine Universalist arguments related to the meaning of aionios that oppose my view.

This was initially a post on my blog.

Does insisting aionios life means eternal life lead to a denial of the Trinity & the Deity of Christ? See below:



Context determines the meaning of a word. The same word can have more than one, or even many, meanings in different contexts.

So, to illustrate, if aionion means "eternal" in one context, it can mean a finite age or ages, epoch, era, millennium, lifetime, 3 days, long time, lasting, etc, in other passages.

In order to refute universalism you need to prove the word aionion means "eternal" when speaking of punishment. Arguing that it means "eternal" in regards to life proves nothing.

Universalists mostly agree that aionion sometimes means "eternal" & at others times it doesn't. Call that position A. And the following position B:

Some universalists, however, argue that in Scripture aionion never means eternal & that it always refers to an age, ages or a period of time that is finite. For more on that view see, for example, points 8 & 9 at posts 130 & 131 at:

What is the 2nd Death? (Annihilationsim vs. Eternal Torment)


Which leads us to the passage you refer to, 1 Jn.1:2, & the interpretation of the aforementioned "position B". It says Christ is life aionion, as 1 Jn.1:2 is to be understood. That doesn't mean that is everything Christ is. Christ is much more than that. After the aions end He will still be life, just as He was during the aions. He is both the life eonian and more than life eonian. He is life during the eons and life after the eons. So to say Christ is eonian life does not prove aionion means eternal. In fact, since the aions end, according to Scripture (Heb.9:26; 1 Cor.10:11), the eonian times (Titus 1:2, etc) must also end, as must eonian punishment (Mt.25:46). But since Christ & the saints will have immortality, incorruption, etc, their life will be endless.

BTW it's impossible for "life eonian" to be endless in the past because the eonian times had a beginning (Titus 1:2; Rom.16:25; 2 Tim.1:9). Are you going to argue that Christ had a beginning, too?

Christ Himself connected eonian life with the eon to come (Mk.10:30; Lk.18:30), yet Scripture speaks of multiple eons (ages) to come (Eph.1:21; 2:7; Lk.1:33; Rev. 22:5). So eonian life there can be understood to be restricted to a finite eon.

"In the Gospels there are instances where the substantive aion and the adjective aionios are juxtaposed or associated in a single image or utterance (most directly in Mark 10:30 and Luke 18:30). This obvious parallel in the Greek is invisible in almost every English tanslation" (p.540, The New Testament: A Translation, by EO scholar David Bentley Hart, 2017).

Considering Lk.18:30 above, ECF John Chrysostom limits aionios to a specific age of finite duration:

"For that his[Satan's] kingdom is of this age,[αἰώνιος] i.e., will cease with the present age[αιώνι] ..." (Homily 4 on Ephesians, Chapter II. Verses 1-3).

CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 4 on Ephesians (Chrysostom)

Also another Early Church Father by the name of Origen spoke of what is "after" and "beyond" aionios life. As a native Greek speaker & scholar he knew the meaning of the word:

"...in the one who drinks of the water that Jesus gives leaps into eternal life. And after eternal life, perhaps it will also leap into the Father who is beyond eternal life." (Comm. in Io 13.3)


N.T. Wright is considered to be a leading NT scholar & his translation renders "life aionios" as "the life of God's coming age" (1 Jn.1:2, NTE). Compare:

Weymouth New Testament
the Life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness, and we declare unto you the Life of the Ages which was with the Father and was manifested to us--

Young's Literal Translation
and the Life was manifested, and we have seen, and do testify, and declare to you the Life, the age-during, which was with the Father, and was manifested to us --

And the life was manifested, and we have seen and are testifying and reporting to you the life eonian which was toward the Father and was manifested to us. (CLV)

And, the Life, was made manifest, and we have seen, and are bearing witness, and announcing unto you, the Age-abiding Life, which, indeed, was with the Father, and was made manifest unto us; (Ro)

(and the life was manifested, and we have seen, and we bear testimony, and we declare to you the life the age-lasting, which was with the Father, and was manifested to us (Diaglott Greek-English interlinear)

...the AIONIAN LIFE...(Diaglott margin)

and announce to you the life of the Age...(The NT: A Translation, by EO scholar David Bentley Hart, 2017).

Indeed the Chayyei [Olam] was manifested, and we have seen it and we give solemn eidus (witness of testimony) and we proclaim to you the Chayyei Olam which was alongside with HaAv [Yochanan 1:1-4,14] and made hisgalus (appearance of, exposure of in revelation) to us [Shlichim]. (OJB)

Speaking of OLAM, we now turn to Dan.12:2-3, which also supports the above position:

The context suggests the view that both the life & the punishment referred to in v.2 are of finite duration (OLAM), since v.3 speaks of those who will be for OLAM "and further".

2 From those sleeping in the soil of the ground many shall awake, these to eonian life and these to reproach for eonian repulsion." 3 The intelligent shall warn as the warning of the atmosphere, and those justifying many are as the stars for the eon and further." (Dan.12:2-3, CLV)

The Hebrew word for eonian (v.2) & eon (v.3) above is OLAM which is often used of limited durations in the OT. In verse 3 of Dan. 12 are the words "OLAM and further" showing an example of its finite duration in the very next words after Dan. 12:2. Thus, in context, the OLAM occurences in v.2 could also both be understood as being of finite duration.

Additionally, the early church accepted the following Greek OT translation of the Hebrew OT of Dan. 12:3:

καὶ οἱ συνιέντες ἐκλάμψουσιν ὡς ἡ λαμπρότης τοῦ στερεώματος καὶ ἀπὸ τῶν δικαίων τῶν πολλῶν ὡς οἱ ἀστέρες εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας καὶ ἔτι[and further]

Notice the words at the end saying KAI ETI, meaning "and further" or "and still" or "and yet" & other synonyms.

eti: "still, yet...Definition: (a) of time: still, yet, even now, (b) of degree: even, further, more, in addition." Strong's Greek: 2089. ἔτι (eti) -- still, yet

εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας καὶ ἔτι means "into the ages and further" as a translation of the Hebrew L'OLAM WA ED[5703, AD]

So this early church Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures agrees with the above translation (& those below) using the words "and further", "futurity", "beyond" & similarly.

3 and·the·ones-being-intelligent they-shall- warn as·warning-of the·atmosphere and·ones-leading-to-righteousness-of the·many-ones as·the·stars for·eon and·futurity (Dan. 12:3, Hebrew-English Interlinear)
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/dan12.pdf

2 and, many of the sleepers in the dusty ground, shall awake,—these, [shall be] to age-abiding life, but, those, to reproach, and age-abiding abhorrence;
3 and, they who make wise, shall shine like the shining of the expanse,—and, they who bring the many to righteousness, like the stars to times age-abiding and beyond. (Dan. 12:2-3, Rotherham)

2 And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to life age-during, and some to reproaches—to abhorrence age-during.
3 And those teaching do shine as the brightness of the expanse, and those justifying the multitude as stars to the age and for ever*. (Dan. 12:2-3, YLT)
* for "for ever" Young of YLT says substitute "age during" everywhere in Scripture: http://heraldmag.org/olb/Contents/bibles/ylt.pdf

Dan. 12:2-3 was the only Biblical reference to "life OLAM" Jesus listeners had to understand His meaning of "life aionios"(life OLAM) in Mt.25:46 & elsewhere in the New Testament.

Verse 3 speaks of those justifying "many". Who are these "many"? The same "many" of verse 2, including those who were resurrected to "shame" & "contempt"? IOW the passage affirms universalism?

αιωνιος Matt 25:46 perpetual; 2 Thessolanians 1:9; αιωνιος = Perpetual; LSJ, MIDDLE LIDDELL; THAYER; STRONG'S; LOGEION.UCHICAGO.EDU; αιων = age

 

[LoveofTruth]

To all:

consider

Death and damnation is the opposite of this life in Jesus Christ, only "in him" is life He is eternal life.

Also notice the future tense here as well,

John 3:36
"He that believeth on the Son hath [present tense] everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not [in the present time and future] see life; but the wrath of God abideth[remains] on him"

This shall not see life shows clearly the endless damnation in judgement and that there shall not be life in Christ for such people ever. To say they shall not see life, is the opposite of the universalist who say , "yes all mankind shall see life". For Jesus to speak of their future state and how they shall not see life. This is clearly showing that eternal damnation is forever and none shall see life in there ever. Jesus didn't say, " they shall not see life for a certain time in hell and the lake of fire".

The reason they might miss this is because eternal life is Jesus Christ himself in these context. If a man dies outside of Christ and abides not in him he is cast forth as a branch and withered and cast into the fire John 15.

 

[LoveofTruth]

So if you define Christ Himself as aionion life, you are defining Him as having had a beginning. This denies the Trinity and the Deity of Christ. And contradicts your (and my) belief that Christ is God & always was God, just as the Father and the Holy Spirit.

No it doesn't deny the Trinity and the diety of Christ at all. It simply corrects your misunderstanding of the word and it's usage. I showed clearly that Jesus Christ himself is eternal life and from scripture. And that he is the life and he is without beginning or end and before all things.

Eternal life is Jesus Christ . He is the life and eternal life as scripture says and he is forever and eternal and everlasting in His being. And all believers have eternal life "abiding" in them, as they abide in him.

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal [aionios] life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) 3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ."( 1 John 1:1-3 KJV)

Notice the "eternal life (aeons) life is Jesus Christ.

"11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal [aionios] life, and this life is in his Son."( 1 John 5:11 KJV)

"20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal [aionios] life."(1 John 5:20 KJV)

Again, Eternal life is actually Jesus Christ himself and if he is in us we are in Him which is eternal life.

and so those who wilfully sin and do such things as this no longer have eternal life (Jesus Christ).

"15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."( 1 John 3:15 KJV)

. Notice that Jesus Christ (eternal [aionios] life dwells in a person or not. He is not an age as some make it in many instances but actually Jesus Christ himself. This could be the reason why some don't understand that Jesus Christ (eternal life) is in believers . I would say to all to read this and consider,

"5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"(2 Cor 13:5 KJV)

Also notice the future tense here as well,

John 3:36
"He that believeth on the Son hath [present tense] everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not [in the present time and future] see life; but the wrath of God abideth[remains] on him"

This shall not see life shows clearly the endless damnation in judgement and that there shall not be life in Christ for such people ever. To say they shall not see life, is the opposite of the universalist who say , "yes all mankind shall see life". For Jesus to speak of their future state and how they shall not see life. This is clearly showing that eternal damnation is forever and none shall see life in there ever. Jesus didn't say, " they shall not see life for a certain time in hell and the lake of fire".

Jesus said

John 5:24
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is [presnt tense] passed from death unto life....26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;...29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

 

[St. John of the Cross]

John,

(1) First of all, Isa.66:22-24 makes no mention of what has become of the souls of the "corpses" referred to:

23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

(2) Secondly, nothing in verses 22-24 says verses 23 & 24 refer to the lake of fire or the new earth. Consider Option A at the following re a premillennial take on Isa.65 & 66:

Isaiah 65-66: The Vision (Part 3) - Wasilla Bible Church

(3) I wonder how "corpses" (v.24) would survive in a lake of fire. Or worms (v.24) . OTOH worms could survive in a millennial eon garbage dump called Gehenna. As could "corpses" survive that were in parts of the garbage dump that were not completely consumed by fire.

(4) If it were the new earth, why does verse 23 refer to new moons and the sabbath?

“The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee; but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory” (Isa.60:19)

Rev.21:22 But I saw no temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 And the city has no need for sun or moon to shine on it, because the glory of God illuminates the city, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24 By its light the nations will walk, and into it the kings of the earth will bring their glory.

(5) Even if the reference is to the new earth, if there are still "corpses" of the dead in the lake of fire, how is it that death has already been abolished (1 Cor.15:22-28)?

"Just as surely as the abolition of slavery entails freedom for those formerly enslaved, the abolition of death entails life for those formerly dead."

(6) For an interesting take on our passage, there is this alleged view:

"It is interesting that many of these comments touch on the concept that is well-articulated by C.S. Lewis' mentor, George McDonald, in his sermon, "The Consuming Fire." The concept is that God himself is the consuming fire and he will burn away all our iniquities, including those of Satan, who will emerge from the experience as the purified Lucifer, as he was created to be. This is what is pictured in Isaiah 66:24 where all beings will look upon their old selves as carcasses burning in God's eternally consuming fire. To understand this picture one must realize that the perspective is that of a totally redeemed eternal being looking back on his or her past life and sensing some regret for their own sins."

Origen on the Salvation of the Devil

7) In any case, when death is abolished (1 Cor.15:22-28) & all are made new (Rev.21:5, 5:13), the dead in the second death (lake of fire) will rise back to life "in Christ" & God will be "all in all" (1 Cor.15:22,28). IOW there will be universal salvation of every person that has ever lived since Adam was created.

Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism


v. 49 "For everyone will be salted with fire."

Nothing there says tortures are endless. Instead it refers to a fire and worm. And a fire that is not quenched can end or burn out on it's own, as proven by:

"Let us see how the word "asbestos (unquenchable) was used by the Greeks. Strabo calls it the lamp in the Parthenon, and Plutarch calls the sacred fire of a temple "unquenchable," though they were extinguished long ago. Josephus, the Jewish Priest who saw the destruction of Jerusalem says that the fire on the altar of the temple at Jerusalem was "always unquenchable" abeston aei, yet he was there when the fire on the altar was forever extinguished. Eusibius, the church historian who lived in Constantine's day says that certain martyrs of Alexandria "were burned in unquenchable fire." The fire was put out within an hour! Homer speaks of "unquenchable laughter" asbestos gelos, (Iliad, I: 599)"

Bible Threatening Explained

Nothing here says they stay in Gehenna for endless ages, so can't come out. Neither does it say that while in Gehenna there is no salvation. In the book of Revelation the gates into the city of God are always open. God says He is making "all" new (21:5).

unquenchabe is limited not endless...ancient examples given here:

A key to Universalism

Mark 9:43: "into Gehenna, into the unextinguished fire." First, the word "unquenchable" in the Bible is translated from the Greek word asbestos which simply means "not quenched." In itself, that is not the same as "not ABLE to be quenched" or "unquenchable." It is similar to God's judgments being without appeal "until they have finished all his plans:"

"The fierce anger of the LORD will not diminish until it has finished all his plans. In the days to come, you will understand all this.."(Jer 30:24).

As for an immortal worm that never dies, some ECT commentators say it refers to the immortal soul. ECTers can't agree amongst themselves what it means & Jesus didn't elaborate. In Isaiah 66 the worm is spoken of in the same verse that speaks of "corpses". So, they could be eating dead bodies during the millennial age eon.

"Perhaps unbeknownst to many traditionalists who cite this verse as a challenge to conditionalism, Jesus is quoting Isaiah 66:24 here, in which it is said explicitly that it is
corpses being consumed by fire and maggots—not living beings. Those traditionalists who are aware of this nevertheless insist that the worm is depicted as never dying and the fire as never going out. But this is not what these idioms communicate."

"The phrase “does not die” is used several times in the Hebrew scripture and does not mean will never die (Genesis 42:20; Exodus 30:20; Jeremiah 38:24). It means that someone or something will not die at a particular time or in a particular context."

how do people who believe in eternal torture in fire

So such references could be about eating sinners sins or evil flesh nature till it is gone.




"Interesting aside, for what it may mean to anyone... Maggots are making a comeback in modern medicine. They gently debride wounds in a way no surgeon, however subtle, could possibly achieve. (Medical Maggots™ (maggot therapy, maggot debridement therapy, MDT, biotherapy, biosurgery, biodebridement, larval therapy) | Monarch Labs - Advanced Wound BioSurgery) They nibble away the dead and decaying cells, allowing healthy, new, regenerated cells to thrive instead. Maggots only eat dead tissue, leaving the living tissue to thrive. I think there's a big parallel there, but maybe I'm taking the "book of nature" to extremes. My husband's doctor at Mayo
told me they had them there, available by prescription only--special hygienic ones, of course! :lol: "

"All these things we consider to be bad (by knee-jerk reaction at least) can also be seen as good--judgment, brimstone (aka sulfur & also used in medicine then and now), even maggots. Fire also is used in scripture as symbolic of purification--and we mustn't forget the nature of our God, who is, we're told, "a consuming fire."

Login

"Now, salt too, just as the divine fire, is associated with the
eschatological test in Mark 9:49, a text I have already analysed, where this fire is presented as purifying and performing the disinfecting function of salt: “all will be salted by this fire,” if they have lost their salt in this life."
(Ilaria Ramelli, The Christian Doctrine of Apokatastasis: A Critical Assessment from the New Testament to Eriugena (Brill, 2013. 890 pp., p.53)

"Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there [Gehenna]
until you have paid up the last cent. The word ―until unmistakably confirms Gehenna is of a limited duration. Once the penalty is exacted, release follows, but not before. Note He addressed these words to a mixed audience of believers and unbelievers (Mt. 5:1;7:28; 8:1). (See also Mt. 18:34-35)." http://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

Jn.1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

4:39 Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman’s testimony, “He told me everything I ever did.” 40 So when the Samaritans came to him, they urged him to stay with them, and he stayed two days. 41 And because of his words many more became believers.
42 They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

1). the text never says that the dead become part of "all mankind" in the new heavens and earth.

2) The text says it's the new heavens and earth. The sun, moon, and stars exist there only their light is not needed because the glory of God outshines them.


“As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure. From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord. “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.” - Isaiah 66

3)Dead bodies isn't literal for the New Testament tells us:

O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? - Rom 7:24

4) Death is destroyed in the lake of fire along with the dead bodies. The lake of fire is the second death. All death is separated from life in the new heavens and earth. Death is eternal separation.

 

[ClementofA]

[snip]

(19) And after eternal life, perhaps it will also leap into the Father who is beyond eternal life. For Christ is life but he who is greater than Christ is greater than life.

[snip]​

I like how unis hold up Origen as a poster boy for ECF universalism but when something Origen says contradicts universalism, as does Comm John 13:60, they have all kinds of arguments why Origen is wrong. This is trying to eat your cake and have it too.

What contradiction? There's no contradiction to universalism there.

Origen makes it clear that "eternal fire" (Mt.25:46) is remedial, corrective & temporary:

"Chapter 10. On the Resurrection, and the Judgment, the Fire of Hell, and Punishments."

"1. But since the discourse has reminded us of the subjects of a future judgment and of retribution, and of the punishments of sinners, according to the threatenings of holy Scripture and the contents of the Church's teaching— viz., that when the time of judgment comes, everlasting fire, and outer darkness, and a prison, and a furnace, and other punishments of like nature, have been prepared for sinners— let us see what our opinions on these points ought to be."

"...nevertheless in such a way, that even the body which rises again of those who are to be destined to everlasting fire or to severe punishments, is by the very change of the resurrection so incorruptible, that it cannot be corrupted and dissolved even by severe punishments. If, then, such be the qualities of that body which will arise from the dead, let us now see what is the meaning of the threatening of eternal fire."

"...And when this dissolution and rending asunder of soul shall have been tested by the application of fire, a solidification undoubtedly into a firmer structure will take place, and a restoration be effected."

[De Principis Book 2]

CHURCH FATHERS: De Principiis, Book II (Origen)

There is no contradiction! In 13:19 there was one speculative comment "after [eternal life,] perhaps it will also leap into the Father." In 13:60 Origen makes five definitive, NOT speculative, statements about eternal life. "eternal life," "[1] never perishes,""[2]remains.""[3]is not taken away,""[4] is not consumed,"[5] does [not] perish."

If you say [a] "it looks like it will rain today, maybe it will rain" & then say "it won't rain today", then [c] you are contradicting yourself. Both statements cannot be true.

As to aionios life, if it refers to life during the aions and, as Origen says, the aions end, then when all will leap into the Father, who is "beyond eternal life", then it "remains" & is "not taken away" during the aions. It isn't "consumed" but, as Origen said "leaps" into the Father who is "beyond eternal life". Notice BTW that it doesn't say "maybe" the Father is "beyond eternal life", but that He - is - "beyond eternal life".

"And after eternal life, perhaps it will also leap into the Father who is beyond eternal life".

The word "perhaps" is related to the "it will also leap", whatever "it" refers to. Not to the statement before which definitively speaks of there being an "after eternal life", nor to the phrase after it, "beyond eternal life".

What is the Greek word for "never" in "never persishes"? In some bible translations it involves a deceptive rendering of the word aion which means literally eon, not "never". So your opinion about what Origen said in section 60 can be easily explained away. And be in harmony with what he said earlier in statements about after/beyond "eternal life".

.....It appears to me that "pope" Ramelli is pushing her agenda and ignoring everything in Origen which contradicts her.

What gives you that idea & why speak of her as pope? She has read Origen in the original Greek & Latin. You haven't. She is a partistic scholar, especially of Origen. You are not.

Where can I review the complete text of Origen Comm John to verify that the alleged quotes are correct?

As you've been previously informed, this is where i got the Greek text of Origen that i posted:

TLG - Home

Go to the same source from which you quoted all the Greek in the other thread. The Greek for comm John 13:60 will be right there.

I may do that. Although when i checked last year most texts of Origen were unavailable in the ancient koine Greek language.

Not relevant! I don't see any Greek here. What exactly do you think this proves?

It opposes your opinions based on English translations alone, such as in section 60 above & your claims re Origen's "definition" of aion & aionios as "eternal". And it opposes your claims that the definition of aion/ios & olam in the Scriptures is "eternal" & always means "eternal" except when used in hyperbole.

Clearly your arguments don't have even half a leg to stand on.

Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

Universalism – The Truth Shall Make You Free

Eternity in the Bible by Gerry Beauchemin – Hope Beyond Hell


-----------------------

Then De Principiis contradicts commentary on John.

How is that?

Since you do not know what "it" refers to how can you cite this paragraph as evidence of anything? Try reading the paragraph in-context at your link maybe you will understand it then. I suggest you read para.18

Whatever "it" refers to doesn't change the fact of Origen speaking of "after eternal life" and "beyond eternal life", which was supported also by:

Evagrius's Kephalaia Gnostika

Evagrius's Kephalaia Gnostika: A New Translation of the Unreformed Text from ...
By Ilaria L.E. Ramelli (pages 10- 11)

Where again Origen refers to what is after eternal life, as well as after "the ages", beyond "ages of the ages" [often mistranslated forever & ever] and all ages.

Further re Origen & aionios:

"That threats of aionios punishment are helpful for those immature who abstain from evil out of fear and not for love is repeated, e.g. in CC 6,26: "it is not helpful to go up to what will come beyond that punishment, for the sake of those who restrain themselves only with much difficulty, out of fear of the aionios punishment"; Hom. in Jer. 20 (19), 4: for a married woman it is better to believe that a faithless woman will undergo aionios punishment and keep faithful, rather than knowing the truth and becoming disloyal;" (p.178-9).

Ilaria Ramelli, The Christian Doctrine of Apokatastasis: A Critical Assessment from the New Testament to Eriugena (Brill, 2013. 890 pp.)

CHURCH FATHERS: Contra Celsus, Book VI (Origen)
CHURCH FATHERS: Contra Celsus, Book VI (Origen)

Furthermore re Origen & aionios, Origen makes it clear that "eternal fire" (Mt.25:46) is remedial, corrective & temporary:

"Chapter 10. On the Resurrection, and the Judgment, the Fire of Hell, and Punishments."

"1. But since the discourse has reminded us of the subjects of a future judgment and of retribution, and of the punishments of sinners, according to the threatenings of holy Scripture and the contents of the Church's teaching— viz., that when the time of judgment comes, everlasting fire, and outer darkness, and a prison, and a furnace, and other punishments of like nature, have been prepared for sinners— let us see what our opinions on these points ought to be."

"...nevertheless in such a way, that even the body which rises again of those who are to be destined to everlasting fire or to severe punishments, is by the very change of the resurrection so incorruptible, that it cannot be corrupted and dissolved even by severe punishments. If, then, such be the qualities of that body which will arise from the dead, let us now see what is the meaning of the threatening of eternal fire."

"...And when this dissolution and rending asunder of soul shall have been tested by the application of fire, a solidification undoubtedly into a firmer structure will take place, and a restoration be effected."

[De Principis Book 2]

CHURCH FATHERS: De Principiis, Book II (Origen)

Links to the Works of Origen in English, Greek, and Latin
Links to the Works of Origen in English, Greek, and Latin

And yet more re Origen & aion/ios:

"Origen, the greatest exegete of the early Church, was well aware of the polysemy of aión and its adjectival forms. In Hom. in Ex. 6.13 he writes: “Whenever Scripture says, ‘from aeon to aeon,’ the reference is to an interval of time, and it is clear that it will have an end. And if Scripture says, ‘in another aeon,’ what is indicated is clearly a longer time, and yet an end is still fixed. And when the ‘aeons of the aeons’ are mentioned, a certain limit is again posited, perhaps unknown to us, but surely established by God” (quoted in Ramelli, The Christian Doctrine of Apokatastasis, p. 161). And Comm. in Rom. 6.5: “In Scriptures, aión is sometimes found in the sense of something that knows no end; at times it designates something that has no end in the present world, but will have in the future one; sometimes it means a certain stretch of time; or again the duration of the life of a single person is called aión” (quoted in Ramelli, p. 163).

Sometimes Eternity Ain’t Forever: Aiónios and the Universalist Hope

Origen did NOT say there was a beyond eternal life.

He did. You saw the English translation saying so. And the Greek as well. Sorry to disappoint you, but the vast majority of people are not going to be kept alive only to be tortured forever by Love Omnipotent.

I couldn't find it at TLG.

Did you pay for the service?

If most texts of Origen were unavailable how were you able to copy from Origen's commentary on John?

John's commentary of the portion i quoted was available. AFAIK the site has many Greek works, but no Latin. Much of what Origen wrote is in Latin.