Millennial Considerations

[Davy]

The fact of animal blood sacrifice for sin as seen throughout Ezekiel chapters 40-46 alone proves your future millennial temple false, animal sacrifice was "Abolished" at the cross of calvary.

Ezekiel chapter 40-46 represents the Zerubbabel 2nd temple 536BC, where the blood sacrificial system for "SIN" was seen, prior to the perfect sacrifice on calvary of my Lord Jesus Christ.

Ezekiel 40:1-4 clearly teaches Ezekiel received the vision in the 25th year of the babylonian captivity. In verse 4 he was instructed to tell the house of Israel in the captivity what he saw, 45 years later the Jews returned to Jerusalem and built the Zerubbabel 2nd temple 536BC, Prophecy "Fulfilled"!

The vision was given to Ezekiel in a time when they were still under the old covenant sacrifices. And that involved the operations with the temple, so naturally they are mentioned. But I don't believe for the future those are literal, but spiritual, meaning our love for The Father and The Son, which is how the NT doctrine of our sacrifices is meant.

 

[BABerean2]

Jesus was The Christ even before... He was born in the flesh of Mary's womb. Since He is God The Son, He has always been The King also.

But like Apostle Paul showed, Jesus must reign over the wicked first before the real end will come, meaning the Rev.20 thousand years is actually a part of this present world, just in a different dimension on earth.

You might make that work if your cut the following out of your Bible.

2Th 1:7　 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,　
2Th 1:8　 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:　
2Th 1:9　 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;　
2Th 1:10　 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.　


When does the fire come?

.

 

[Davy]

You might make that work if your cut the following out of your Bible.

2Th 1:7　 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,　
2Th 1:8　 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:　
2Th 1:9　 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;　
2Th 1:10　 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.　


When does the fire come?

.

You shouldn't ever confuse God's consuming fire that will occur at Christ's coming on the "day of the Lord" with the "lake of fire" the wicked go into after God's future GWT Judgment.

The 2 Pet.3:10 consuming fire on the "day of the Lord" will cleanse the earth's surface of man's works. it will end this present flesh world age.

 

[Truth7t7]

Like I said, the Ezekiel temple layout is way... different:

Like I said Ezekiel chapters 40-46 is the Zerubbabel 2nd temple, And Ezekiel 47:12 represents the eternal kingdom as seen in Revelation 22:1-5 same river and tree of life

 

[Truth7t7]

The vision was given to Ezekiel in a time when they were still under the old covenant sacrifices. And that involved the operations with the temple, so naturally they are mentioned. But I don't believe for the future those are literal, but spiritual, meaning our love for The Father and The Son, which is how the NT doctrine of our sacrifices is meant.

You dont believe the animal blood sacrifice for sin seen in Ezekiel chapters 40-46 is literal, just a symbolic representation?

Looks like a run from the truth presented, in complete desparation to keep your 1000 year earthly kingdom alive

The reason you see animal blood sacrifice for "SIN" is because Ezekiel chapters 40-46 is nothing more than the Zerubbabel 2nd temple 536BC before the cross of calvary.

 

[Davy]

You dont believe the animal blood sacrifice for sin seen in Ezekiel chapters 40-46 is literal, just a symbolic representation?

Looks like a run from the truth presented, in complete desperation to keep your 1000 year earthly kingdom alive

The reason you see animal blood sacrifice for "SIN" is because Ezekiel chapters 40-46 is nothing more than the Zerubbabel 2nd temple 536BC before the cross of calvary.

It's dimensions and layout do not fit any previously temple built in Jerusalem. The Ezekiel 40-48 chapters are all timing after the end of this present world at Ezekiel 39. The 48th chapter is especially about God's future Eternal Kingdom.

The sacrifices from an OT era look would be seen as literal. But from a NT era look, they are spiritual...

1 Peter 2:5
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
KJV

 

[BABerean2]

You shouldn't ever confuse God's consuming fire that will occur at Christ's coming on the "day of the Lord" with the "lake of fire" the wicked go into after God's future GWT Judgment.

The 2 Pet.3:10 consuming fire on the "day of the Lord" will cleanse the earth's surface of man's works. it will end this present flesh world age.

Based on what you said above, you believe that 2 Peter 3:10-13 occurs at Christ's Second Coming.

Now we are making progress.

.

 

[Davy]

Based on what you said above, you believe that 2 Peter 3:10-13 occurs at Christ's Second Coming.

Now we are making progress.

.

Not so fast.

Only these verses are accomplished on "the day of the Lord" when Jesus returns...

2 Peter 3:10-12
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
KJV

And by the way. The KJV word "elements" there does NOT... mean earthly matter in the Greek manuscripts.

 

[Truth7t7]

It's dimensions and layout do not fit any previously temple built in Jerusalem. The Ezekiel 40-48 chapters are all timing after the end of this present world at Ezekiel 39. The 48th chapter is especially about God's future Eternal Kingdom.

The sacrifices from an OT era look would be seen as literal. But from a NT era look, they are spiritual...

1 Peter 2:5
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
KJV

Ezekiel 39:23-28 is showing that the Lord let Israel be carried away in the babylonian captivity, and how they returned from the enemies land.

its not the end of the world, as you claim

Ezekiel chapters 40-46 is the Zerubbabel 2nd temple 536BC.

Ezekiel 47:12 is the eternal kingdom, river and tree of life Revelation 22:1-5

 

[seventysevens]

It means the nations without Christ will be in the spiritual body too. There is not going to be one group in resurrection bodies walking around on earth while another group is still in their flesh bodies

I asked this before but you did not answer ,

How are you getting the idea that the dead in Rev 20 verse 5 are not dead in the grave?

Verse 4 and 5 both have people that are dead , verse 4 are those who are in Christ and they live to reign with Christ during the 1000 years as verse 5 says the rest of those that are dead do not live til after the 1000 years are finished

This be like having a basket of apples and you take some and serve them with a meal and the rest of the apples in the basket remain in the basket.

It seems it be wiser to compare verse 5 with verse 4 spoken in the same breath than to compare verse 5 with a book that was written about 45 years prior to when the book of revelation was written
I do not find any scripture that says that people who have lived without Christ receive an immortal body before the GWT judgment
Paul says in 1 Corin says that only those who have Christ receive an immortal body

what scripture shows those without Christ get an incorruptible body?
1 Cor 15
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.

56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Truth7t7]

Not so fast.

Only these verses are accomplished on "the day of the Lord" when Jesus returns...

2 Peter 3:10-12
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
KJV

And by the way. The KJV word "elements" there does NOT... mean earthly matter in the Greek manuscripts.

Davy your now a bible translator in the Greek?

elements doesnt mean earthly matter?

Your spend a great deal of time in denial of the plain and simple scripture.

 

[DavidPT]

The tares are about the unawares crept in of the Book of Jude. And those do represent a certain enemy against Christ. Jesus showed them coming to worship at the feet of His elect in the future thousand years (Rev.3:9).

Apparently the following in Isaiah 60 is referring to the same events as Revelation 3:9.

Isaiah 60:14 The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.


And by comparing Isaiah 60 to Revelation 21-22, guess where it places this thousand years as taking place? Within the new heavens and new earth.

 

[DavidPT]

Davy your now a bible translator in the Greek?

elements doesnt mean earthly matter?

Your spend a great deal of time in denial of the plain and simple scripture.

Can you provide at least one verse where stoicheion is used, where it means earthly matter in that verse? Not meaning the verses in 2 Peter 3 though, since those are the verses in question. Meaning other verses in order for one to determine whether or not stoicheion can sometimes be understood as meaning earthly matter.

 

[Truth7t7]

Apparently the following in Isaiah 60 is referring to the same events as Revelation 3:9.

Isaiah 60:14 The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.


And by comparing Isaiah 60 to Revelation 21-22, guess where it places this thousand years as taking place? Within the new heavens and new earth.

The word thousand represents the eternal realm, and the tribulation saints seen in Revelation 20:1-6 will come out of the future 42 month tribulation, the eternal New Heaven and Earth takes place after the future tribulation, at the second advent, resurrection, final judgment.

The non literal 1000 years in the Lords spiritual is taking place now, in the spiritual realm.

 

[DavidPT]

The word thousand represents the eternal realm, and the tribulation saints seen in Revelation 20:1-6 will come out of the future 42 month tribulation, the eternal New Heaven and Earth takes place after the future tribulation, at the second advent, resurrection, final judgment.

The non literal 1000 years in the Lords spiritual is taking place now, in the spiritual realm.

You're intelligent, right? To me you come off as highly intelligent. With that in mind---till the thousand years should be fulfilled(teleo)---until the thousand years were finished(teleo)----And when the thousand years are expired(teleo). What part of the Greek word teleo are you not grasping? Seriously. Edited to add the following.

If you are correct that a thousand years and eternity are one and the same, that means the above would be meaning the following as well------till the eternity should be fulfilled---until eternity was finished----And when eternity is expired. In one of these posts somewhere you suggested I should just throw in the towel and give up, pretty much meaning it is a lost cause for me to continue concluding what I do. If anyone should throw in the towel, if this post isn't a good example of who that should be, then I don't know what to tell you.


teleo
from teloV - telos 5056; to end, i.e. complete, execute, conclude, discharge (a debt):--accomplish, make an end, expire, fill up, finish, go over, pay, perform.

 

[BABerean2]

Not so fast.

Only these verses are accomplished on "the day of the Lord" when Jesus returns...

2 Peter 3:10-12
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
KJV

And by the way. The KJV word "elements" there does NOT... mean earthly matter in the Greek manuscripts.

Am I missing something here when it says the earth will be burned up?

Is there anything in the Greek that I am missing?

Have you ever put salt in water and "dissolved" it?


.

 

[DavidPT]

Well, it's actually irrelevant whether Rev 5:10 refers to the new earth or the old earth because either way, we reign on the earth. We are reigning right now, on this earth and we will still reign with him on the new earth.

My main point is that Jesus stays in heaven until the end of the thousand years. We see this in 1 Corinthians 15 and again in Acts 3:21.

1 Corinthians 15
...when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

Acts 3:21
21 Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

But what about the point I made in regards to the souls in Revelation 20:4, that Revelation 20:6 applies to them as well, and that that includes---but they shall be priests of God and of Christ? How is that explained per Amil doctrine?

 

[seventysevens]

Am I missing something here when it says the earth will be burned up?

Is there anything in the Greek that I am missing?

Have you ever put salt in water and "dissolved" it?


.

I put fire in water and it was dissolved as well

 

[Truth7t7]

You're intelligent, right? To me you come off as highly intelligent. With that in mind---till the thousand years should be fulfilled(teleo)---until the thousand years were finished(teleo)----And when the thousand years are expired(teleo). What part of the Greek word teleo are you not grasping? Seriously.


teleo
from teloV - telos 5056; to end, i.e. complete, execute, conclude, discharge (a debt):--accomplish, make an end, expire, fill up, finish, go over, pay, perform.

What part of 2 Peter 3:8 dont you understand?

One day is a thousand years, and a thousand years one day?

is it one day or a thousand years?

or is it a representation of no time in the Lords eternal realm?

Revelation 20:1-6 100% eternal spiritual realm!

angel, heaven, devil, satan, the dead, the souls, God, Christ, no literal earthly time seen there

 

[Truth7t7]

Apparently the following in Isaiah 60 is referring to the same events as Revelation 3:9.

Isaiah 60:14 The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.


And by comparing Isaiah 60 to Revelation 21-22, guess where it places this thousand years as taking place? Within the new heavens and new earth.

Isaiah 60 is in the eternal kingdom. "Clearly"

Revelation 3:9-12 is on this earth during the future tribulation. "Clearly"

Dave I believe you are somewhat savy, why would you deviate from the very clear presentation of scripture presented, that explains simply where the places are?

I believe you are desperately trying to build your teaching, that isn't found in scripture.