Millennial Considerations

[Davy]

Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Based on Acts 2:36 Christ was already both Lord (ruler) and Christ (Messiah) on the Day of Pentecost.



Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

His work was finished at the Cross.
We serve the one who has already won the victory.

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Jesus was The Christ even before... He was born in the flesh of Mary's womb. Since He is God The Son, He has always been The King also.

But like Apostle Paul showed, Jesus must reign over the wicked first before the real end will come, meaning the Rev.20 thousand years is actually a part of this present world, just in a different dimension on earth.

 

[Davy]

I think you need to read Isaiah 66:24 to understand the wicked outside the gates in Revelation 22:15, are burning in the "Eternal Lake Of Fire"

"The Eternal Kingdom"

Ezekiel 47:12 & Revelation 22:1-5 The eternal river and tree of life.

The unbelieving wicked will burn in the "lake of fire", just not until after Jesus has reigned over the nations with "a rod of iron", something He has yet to do.

 

[Davy]

Are you saying that the resurrection of both the just and the unjust is the first resurrection? How is that possible when that resurrection takes place on "the last day"?

No, no, no. The "first resurrection" of Rev.20 is only unto Eternal Life through Christ Jesus. It is the "resurrection of life" of John 5. It is for Christ's elect only at His coming.

But think of it this way. Why even mention a "first" resurrection at all? Why did Rev.20 include the ordinal of a first? That automatically suggests at least one more resurrection LIKE the "first resurrection". And that has to mean another resurrection unto Eternal Life through Christ Jesus. And that's what the 2nd resurrection really is at the end of the thousand years; i.e., it's simply a 'change' of the spiritually dead that believe on Jesus during the thousand years to become joined with Christ's elect at the GWT Judgment. Their names will be found in the book.

When Jesus comes, death is swallowed up in victory and he hands over the kingdom to God the father. (1 Cor 15). Therefore his return can not happen at the start of the thousand years, only at the end because he reigns until death is swallowed up. Plus Acts 3:21 tells us that he stays in heaven until the new earth, so that settles that.

You're misinterpreting Acts 3:21. That is about Christ having ascended to the right hand of The Father during this present world. At His return is when death is swallowed up in victory... for everyone, both the just and the unjust.

But the unjust will still have souls that are liable to perish at the "second death" of Rev.20.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yet Ezekiel 44 shows the unjust dead outside the city being visited by saved relatives. So the "lake of fire" you're trying to move to the time of Christ's coming is not then actually. It doesn't occur until after... God's GWT Judgment.

You have clearly been shown the wicked will be outside the gates in the eternal kingdom as Revelation 22:15 states, as they will be in the eternal lake of fire as Isaiah 66:24 teaches.

You then alude to Ezekiel chapter 44 trying desperately to keep the dream of a earthly 1000 year kingdom alive, with the assumption chapter 44 represents this kingdom?

Ezekiel chapter 40-46 represents the Zerubbabel 2nd temple 536BC, where the blood sacrificial system for "SIN" was in operation, prior to the perfect sacrifice on calvary of my Lord Jesus Christ.

Ezekiel 40:1-4 clearly teaches Ezekiel received the vision in the 25th year of the babylonian captivity. In verse 4 he was instructed to tell the house of Israel in the captivity what he saw, 45 years later the Jews returned to Jerusalem and built the Zerubbabel 2nd temple 536BC, Prophecy "Fulfilled"!

 

[Davy]

That's not what the book says. It says the thousand years ends at his second coming.

1 Corinthians 15
then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

See, when he comes, then the end will come and he hands over the kingdom. In other words, the thousand year reign ends. Also it says he reigns until he has put death under his feet. So we know death is destroyed at the end of his thousand year reign, and this "end of death" is the second resurrection.

It all happens at the end.

The thousand years of Rev.20 is actually on the tail end of this world. The difference is that at Christ's coming in our near future, we all will be in spiritual bodies on earth. Right after the GWT Judgment is when God will make the new heavens and a new earth.

 

[Truth7t7]

The unbelieving wicked will burn in the "lake of fire", just not until after Jesus has reigned over the nations with "a rod of iron", something He has yet to do.

The wicked will burn in the lake of fire at the return of Jesus Christ, as Matthew 25:41 clearly teaches, there will be no temporary 1000 year to follow the eeturn of Jesus Christ with the holy angels.

 

[Davy]

You have clearly been shown the wicked will be outside the gates in the eternal kingdom as Revelarion 22:15 states, as they will be in the eternal lake of fire as Isaiah 66:24 teaches.

You then alude to Exlzekiel chapter 44 trying desperately to keep the dream of a earthly 1000 year kingdom alive, with the assumption chapter 44 represents this kingdom?

Ezekiel chapter 40-46 represents the Zerubbabel 2nd temple 536BC, where the blood sacrificial system for "SIN" was seen, prior to the perfect sacrifice on calvary of my Lord Jesus Christ.

Ezekiel 40:1-4 clearly teaches Ezekiel received the vision in the 25th year of the babylonian captivity. In verse 4 he was instructed to tell the house of Israel in the captivity what he saw, 45 years later the Jews returned to Jerusalem and built the Zerubbabel 2nd temple 536BC, Prophecy "Fulfilled"!

No, Ezekiel 40-48 are all still future timing to us. Those events have never... happened, even as one can easily compare the previous temple layouts with the dimensions of the one in the Book of Ezekiel and know the difference. And Ezekiel 47 is included with that time from Ezekiel 40.

 

[DavidPT]

Rev 5 doesn't say anything about the thousand years, does it? I believe that to be a reference to the new earth because Rev 22 tells us that the righteous will reign on the new earth.

You are correct about the last sentence. As to the first sentence though---well let's do some comparing.


Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

We have one verse saying this---And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. While the other verse is saying this---but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


If we put all of this together like such, it might look like this. but they shall be priests of God and of Christ: and shall reign with him a thousand years.----and we shall reign on the earth.

Unless one holds to Catholic dogma of some kind, no non Catholic believer would ever think souls in heaven are performing priestly duties while there. But that would have to be the case if Amil is supposed to be the correct position. Because for one, Revelation 20:6 has to also apply to the souls John initially sees in in Revelation 20:4.

Amil is basically teaching the following then.

and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands----Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


So one is to believe that souls without bodies while in heaven shall be priests of God and of Christ while in that state? If that's not nonsencical, what is it then?

 

[Davy]

The wicked will burn in the lake of fire at the return of Jesus Christ, as Matthew 25:41 clearly teaches, there will be no temporary 1000 year to follow the eeturn of Jesus Christ with the holy angels.

Matt.25 is giving a quick summary. Just Jesus' explanation of the parable of the tares, He did not include every detail of the order of those events.

 

[LastSeven]

The "First Resurrection" seen in Revelation 20:5 will take place on the last day, with all the righteous that will obtain the immortal glorified body, John 6:40

Actually, the book says that the second resurrection takes place on the last day. John 6:40 is a reference to the second resurrection.

The reason we know this is because there can not be a thousand years after the last day, or it wouldn't be the last day.

Also, look at Daniel 12:3.

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

This is clearly a reference to the second resurrection as it includes both the righteous and the wicked, and Daniel is told verse 13 to "rest until the end of days", which means he wont be resurrected until the last day.

 

[Truth7t7]

The thousand years of Rev.20 is actually on the tail end of this world. The difference is that at Christ's coming in our near future, we all will be in spiritual bodies on earth. Right after the GWT Judgment is when God will make the new heavens and a new earth.

You disregard the fact that this existing earth will be dissolved by the Lords fire in judgment at his appearance/return?

2 Peter 3:10-13, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, Luke 17:26-30, Malachi 3:2, Isaiah 24:20

What ya gonna do with all that fire Davy, sweep it under the carpet?

 

[DavidPT]

Matt.25 is giving a quick summary. Just Jesus' explanation of the parable of the tares, He did not include every detail of the order of those events.

Speaking of tares. Anyone that knows anything about agriculture would know that tares resemble wheat in the early stages, and can sometimes be mistaken for wheat. Therefore the tares can't be meaning all of the unsaved in general. It is meaning like the wolves in sheep's clothing, false apostles, etc.

 

[LastSeven]

You are correct about the last sentence. As to the first sentence though---well let's do some comparing.

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

We have one verse saying this---And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. While the other verse is saying this---but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

If we put all of this together like such, it might look like this. but they shall be priests of God and of Christ: and shall reign with him a thousand years.----and we shall reign on the earth.

Well, it's actually irrelevant whether Rev 5:10 refers to the new earth or the old earth because either way, we reign on the earth. We are reigning right now, on this earth and we will still reign with him on the new earth.

My main point is that Jesus stays in heaven until the end of the thousand years. We see this in 1 Corinthians 15 and again in Acts 3:21.

1 Corinthians 15
...when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

Acts 3:21
21 Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

 

[Truth7t7]

The fact of animal blood sacrifice for sin as seen throughout Ezekiel chapters 40-46 alone proves your future millennial temple false, animal sacrifice was "Abolished" at the cross of calvary.

Ezekiel chapter 40-46 represents the Zerubbabel 2nd temple 536BC, where the blood sacrificial system for "SIN" was seen, prior to the perfect sacrifice on calvary of my Lord Jesus Christ.

Ezekiel 40:1-4 clearly teaches Ezekiel received the vision in the 25th year of the babylonian captivity. In verse 4 he was instructed to tell the house of Israel in the captivity what he saw, 45 years later the Jews returned to Jerusalem and built the Zerubbabel 2nd temple 536BC, Prophecy "Fulfilled"!

No, Ezekiel 40-48 are all still future timing to us. Those events have never... happened, even as one can easily compare the previous temple layouts with the dimensions of the one in the Book of Ezekiel and know the difference. And Ezekiel 47 is included with that time from Ezekiel 40.

 

[Davy]

You disregard the fact that this existing eaeth will be dissolved by the Lords fire in judgment at his appearance/return?

2 Peter 3:10-13, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, Luke 17:26-30, Malachi 3:2, Isaiah 24:20

What ya gonna do with all that fire Davy, sweep it under the carpet?

If you believe God's consuming fire Peter was talking about will turn this whole earth into an asteroid belt, then you haven't understood that 2 Peter 3 Scripture from the start of it.

What subject was Peter covering there from the start? Answer: how some are willingly ignorant of previous destructions God has done upon the surface of this earth. And thus they refuse to likewise believe how God will destroy man's works off the surface of this earth once again, but by fire. The word for "elements" in the Greek means 'an order' like a time of man upon this earth. It does not mean earthly matter like atomic elements. God is not going to destroy the whole earth, just cleanse the surface of it like He did before, but with fire this next time.

That event of His consuming fire on earth will end this present flesh age, and will usher us into Christ's future "thousand years" reign over all nations per the Psalms and Revelation 20. It is not going to destroy all souls, nor the spiritual body. Only God's later "lake of fire" event at the end of the thousand years will destroy the spiritual body and soul of the wicked.

 

[Davy]

Speaking of tares. Anyone that knows anything about agriculture would know that tares resemble wheat in the early stages, and can sometimes be mistaken for wheat. Therefore the tares can't be meaning all of the unsaved in general. It is meaning like the wolves in sheep's clothing, false apostles, etc.

The tares are about the unawares crept in of the Book of Jude. And those do represent a certain enemy against Christ. Jesus showed them coming to worship at the feet of His elect in the future thousand years (Rev.3:9).

 

[Davy]

Acts 3:21
21 Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

Again, you're taking that Acts 3:21 verse out of context. It's about Jesus having ascended to The Father and waiting during this present world in the heavenly. The time to begin restoration is not until His second coming, and surely you're not going to try and say that Jesus' 2nd coming has already happened just so you can keep that tradition on that verse.

 

[Truth7t7]

Actually, tk says that the second resurrection takes place on the last day. John 6:40 is a reference to the second resurrection.

The reason we know this is because there can not be a thousand years after the last day, or it wouldn't be the last day.

Also, look at Daniel 12:3.

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

This is clearly a reference to the second resurrection as it includes both the righteous and the wicked, and Daniel is told verse 13 to "rest until the end of days", which means he wont be resurrected until the last day.

John 5:28-29 teaches all that are in the grave shall hear his voice and come forth in this resurrection we see the "Righteous Believer"

John 6:40 states the resurrection of this "Righteous Believer" in John 5:28-29 takes place on the "Last Day"

Yes Daniel will rest until the "End Of Days" because he will be part of this "Last Day" resurrection also.

 

[Davy]

The fact of animal blood sacrifice for sin as seen throughout Ezekiel chapters 40-46 alone proves your future millennial temple false, animal sacrifice was "Abolished" at the cross of calvary.

Ezekiel chapter 40-46 represents the Zerubbabel 2nd temple 536BC, where the blood sacrificial system for "SIN" was seen, prior to the perfect sacrifice on calvary of my Lord Jesus Christ.

Ezekiel 40:1-4 clearly teaches Ezekiel received the vision in the 25th year of the babylonian captivity. In verse 4 he was instructed to tell the house of Israel in the captivity what he saw, 45 years later the Jews returned to Jerusalem and built the Zerubbabel 2nd temple 536BC, Prophecy "Fulfilled"!

Like I said, the Ezekiel temple layout is way... different:

 

[Truth7t7]

Speaking of tares. Anyone that knows anything about agriculture would know that tares resemble wheat in the early stages, and can sometimes be mistaken for wheat. Therefore the tares can't be meaning all of the unsaved in general. It is meaning like the wolves in sheep's clothing, false apostles, etc.

There ya go again Dave, creating three groups.

"The tares can't be meaning all the unsaved in general"

Wheat/Righteous

Wolves/Intermediate State

Tares/satanist, witches, athiest

You had to add your private interpretation of wolves this time to reach your three groups

100% The Roman Catholic Doctrine Of Purgatory, three different groups in the eternal state.

Possibly if we pay the church for masses and prayers, we can save the intermediate state in limbo ?