Are there different definitions of the "once saved, always saved" doctrine?

[Brokenhill]

.
If it is understood, God Created everything, what would make you think He didn't Create evil as well.

God placed in the Garden The Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, if God did not create evil then where did it come from, God had the knowledge of Good and Evil.

I keep saying it but nobody listens.

God gave DOMINION to mankind through Adam, within that Dominion rests the ability to make choices, Free Will is not an entity unto itself, that is the reason your cannot find it mentioned even once in the Bible, it is part and parcel of Dominion.

Mankind has Dominion, and therein lies the ability to make choices, mankind has this ability in order for him to be able to chart the course of his life, it does not apply to anything else.

Mankind does not possess the ability to chose to do Good or Evil (Sin) as we think of Free Will Choices, he is a slave to sin he is sold under sin, he has a sin Nature and will always sin until he is Freed From Sin, he does not have the ability to resist sin it's what we do as human beings.

If mankind has this Free Will, why then does it take so many people years before they finally do come to the knowledge of God?

It isn't by their Free Will, it is because God Draws them by His Spirit, and then by the Grace of God he receives his Salvation, it isn't a choice which God offers to man, it is a Gift of God to man.

Before a person is Saved, and becomes a Believer, he is a Slave unto Sin, after he is Saved, being born unto God, he is a Slave unto God and Jesus.

The term "free will" doesn't have to appear in scripture specifically...what we call "free will" is clearly displayed in scripture in so many places. As I quoted Joshua who said "choose you this day whom you will serve..." Or if we look at Adam and Eve, God clearly gave them a choice to heed His voice or listen to the serpent's.

Why does it take some so long to come to the knowledge of God? Easy.
1. There aren't enough people preaching the Gospel relative to the vast amount of people on teh planet.
2. Romans 1:18-23 "...men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness..." They don't want to even think about life after death because they're too busy filling their bodies up with the lusts of the eyes/flesh/pride of life.

 

[JIMINZ]

God said that there was conditions for receiving the gift AND keeping the gift, as previously shown.

And where is the Scripture verse for that statement?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

.
OK, tell me the question that I apparently haven't answered.

AND while your at it, answer this question for me.


The question being, if a Believer is Dead to Sin, how then does a Believer Sin?

Both Paul and Peter say We Are Dead to Sin.

Romans 6:2
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:11
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Well, you are not reading these verses in context. Being dead to sin is in reference to having the power to overcome sin in our lives. For Paul says in Romans 13,

"But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof." (Romans 13:14).

6 "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Romans 6:6-7).

This is talking about how a saint has the power to be dead to sin by the fact that they can abide in Christ and His good ways and not have a desire to sin anymore like an unbeliever. This is so that the body of sin might be destroyed so that we should not serve sin. Meaning, we will stop sinning and we will not serve sin in our body. For Jesus died once and during the time Jesus was alive here on this Earth He lived unto God. Scripture says we are to imitate Christ. We are to also live unto God. We see a parallel of this in the life of Jesus in verse 10.

"For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God." (Romans 6:10).

If it's not clear enough, Paul says we are not to let sin reign in our mortal body and obey the lusts thereof.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." (Romans 6:12-14).

Sin shall not have dominion or control over us because we are under grace and not law. While under the Old Law, you could be stoned if you disobeyed God's Law. But while under grace, sin does not have dominion over you in the same way.

"Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." (Romans 6:18).

You became servants of righteousness. For Paul says, "even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness." (Romans 6:19).

And here is the part of Romans 6 that makes the point even more clear.

20 "For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? (Romans 6:20-21).

It says when we were servants of sin, we were free from righteousness ..... (of) .... what fruit you had then in those things that you are now ashamed. Fruit of what? The fruit of sin. The fruit of sin is the actual results of physically sinning! So it is talking about sinning physically.

1 Peter 2:24
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Again, "being dead to sins" is talking about how we are forgiven of our past sins through Christ and we now are free from the effects of being controlled by sin like an unbeliever.

Again, as I said before we are to imitate Christ. For the context says,

"For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps." (1 Peter 2:21).

So how can we follow in Christ's steps if we are turning God's grace into a license to sin?
Jesus never thought that way.

Here is another one.

1 "Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God." (1 Peter 4:1-2).

Did you catch that? It says we should no longer live the rest of our time to the lusts of the flesh, but to the will of God. For he (anyone) who has suffered in the flesh (for God's cause) has ceased from sin (Meaning, they have overcome or stopped sinning).

 

[JIMINZ]

Well, you are not reading these verses in context. Being dead to sin is in reference to having the power to overcome sin in our lives. For Paul says in Romans 13,

"But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof." (Romans 13:14).

6 "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Romans 6:6-7).

This is talking about how a saint has the power to be dead to sin by the fact that they can abide in Christ and His good ways and not have a desire to sin anymore like an unbeliever. This is so that the body of sin might be destroyed so that we should not serve sin. Meaning, we will stop sinning and we will not serve sin in our body. For Jesus died once and during the time Jesus was alive here on this Earth He lived unto God. Scripture says we are to imitate Christ. We are to also live unto God. We see a parallel of this in the life of Jesus in verse 10.

"For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God." (Romans 6:10).

If it's not clear enough, Paul says we are not to let sin reign in our mortal body and obey the lusts thereof.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." (Romans 6:12-14).

Sin shall not have dominion or control over us because we are under grace and not law. While under the Old Law, you could be stoned if you disobeyed God's Law. But while under grace, sin does not have dominion over you in the same way.

"Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." (Romans 6:18).

You became servants of righteousness. For Paul says, "even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness." (Romans 6:19).

And here is the part of Romans 6 that makes the point even more clear.

20 "For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? (Romans 6:20-21).

It says when we were servants of sin, we were free from righteousness ..... (of) .... what fruit you had then in those things that you are now ashamed. Fruit of what? The fruit of sin. The fruit of sin is the actual results of physically sinning! So it is talking about sinning physically.



Again, "being dead to sins" is talking about how we are forgiven of our past sins through Christ and we now are free from the effects of being controlled by sin like an unbeliever.

Again, as I said before we are to imitate Christ. For the context says,

"For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps." (1 Peter 2:21).

So how can we follow in Christ's steps if we are turning God's grace into a license to sin?
Jesus never thought that way.

Here is another one.

1 "Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God." (1 Peter 4:1-2).

Did you catch that? It says we should no longer live the rest of our time to the lusts of the flesh, but to the will of God. For he (anyone) who has suffered in the flesh (for God's cause) has ceased from sin (Meaning, they have overcome or stopped sinning).

.
Therefore are you saying, you have not put on Christ, you are not in the Spirit. AND you cannot profess.

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ:
nevertheless I live;
yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:
and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

How does a Believer Put On Christ?

 

[SBC]

I partially agree.

Even if I claim my free 2017 Chevy Corvette...that doesn't mean I can't give it to my friend instead 3 years later. Or what if I illegally park my Corvette, and it gets toed away by the City's authority? That would be a better analogy to salvation, because if you pay the repo man/towing company and take whatever driving course needed to reacquire your car, then they give it back (similar to repentance).

Once again, you used no scripture.

God said that there was conditions for receiving the gift AND keeping the gift, as previously shown.

The analogy was about taking something offered to you for you.

Jesus offered His body ONCE and for all the world to have Life .

John 6:51
Heb 10:10

Of course there are conditions for receiving the gift - which was my point.

The gift of Salvation is not forced on you you have to take it.

Of course you have To Believe....unless you somehow think you are opting to receive a gift from something you Do Not believe exists.

ONCE you receive the gift you cannot lose it.

If you don't ONCE receive the gift...you lose it, or otherwise lose your opportunity to receive the gift....

Have you never noticed people going to church for years believing, following along,
Then going to an alter call?

What do you think they are doing at the alter call ?

They are asking God to receive the gift of Salvation.

What do you think they were doing for years BEFORE they went to an alter call and asked to receive the gift?

Do you think they were Saved?
They weren't.

Do you think they were learning about God?
Deciding if they truly believe in their heart?
Increasing in faith?
They were.

Do you think at any time they could stop believing, stop following, lose their faith, depart the faith, fall from faith?
They can.

And? Have they received Salvation?
No. They put themselves in jeopardy of losing their Salvation BY departing from, falling away from Faith. By their own decision to stop believing.

All the Scriptures that talk about Losing ones Salvation is talking about men who have Never received the Gift.

And the urgency to receive the Gift...
Is stress For Every individual
Because....Individuals Do Not know when they are going to Die.
And once a man Dies he has Lost his opportunity To Receive Salvation.

So IF you don't want to Lose your Salvation...
Then take it... Receive it...And ONCE Received it is yours To Keep FOREVER.
There is then no jeopardy of Losing it.

ONCE you have received Salvation....
Why concern yourself or compare yourself with Scriptures that do not apply to you?

When Scripture is teacing men to get on the ball and receive their Salvation before they lose it.....Why would those warnings Apply to a man Who has already Received His Salvation?

Scripture is written For Everyone.
Yet YOU are not everyone described in Scripture. YOU have to figure out which Scriptures APPLY to you and which ones Do Not Apply. And Why.

IF Scripture says...hey IF believe in God IN your heart, and then call out to HIM and Tell Him you Believe IN Him... YOU Will Be Saved.

Well? How does All the Scriptures talking about dying IN Sin, Losing Salvation, being separated from God, etc. then apply TO YOU?

They don't.
Just like the Scriptures that talk about being With the Lord FOREVER do not apply to a man WHO has NOT been Saved.

To determine IF Scripture Applies to You, an individual, IS soley dependent on what YOU do or do not do.

I chose to Receive Salvation.
I am not in jeopardy of Losing it.

All the Scriptures that talk about and warn about an individual losing their Salvation...
Have no application whatsoever to me.

God Bless
SBC

 

[SBC]

SEVER:
verb (used with object)
1. to separate (a part) from the whole, as by cutting or the like.
2. to divide into parts, especially forcibly; cleave.
3. to break off or dissolve (ties, relations, etc.).
4. Law. to divide into parts; disunite (an estate, titles of a statute, etc.).
5. to distinguish; discriminate between

"You have bene severed from Christ" means that you WERE WHOLE WITH CHRIST, and now you are DIVIDED.

This is simple lanquage!
The Greek work is "apo", defined by Thayer as "of local separation; of separation of a part from the whole". Look it up in an interlinear Bible.

But once again, I partially agree with you. You're right--I chose to believe in God the Father and in Jesus the Son. But I can also choose to deny them in the future:

2 Timothy 2:11-13
"11 It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;
12 If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;
13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself."

He's talking to believers! People who have made a true commitment already!

1)
Natural men produce seed...
Natural men fertilize a female seed
In a female tube.
They it drops down to the womb.
Bingo the woman is conceived ie pregnant.
The Thing in the womb grows...
1) dependent on the females LIFE,
Which is HER Blood.
2) the Thing Being Formed IS a Body,
Being Formed By God.

It is man who provides the seed.
It is woman that shares her life Blood.
It is God who provides the Body.

When the Thing exits the womb, it is Severed from the Mothers life Blood.
And receives Gods Breath of Life.
Now the Thing called Born Alive is its own individual living earthly Thing in the likeness of its seed provider....its Natural daddy.

I wasn't naturally born With God or Of God.
I didn't come out of God, come from His Seed. He Formed me out of Dust Of the Earth.
I was not with Him, nor severed From Him.

I had To learn About God. Then I had to decide IF I believed In Him. Then I had to decide IF I wanted To COMMIT myself To Him and His Authority and His Power.

Well that IS what I chose.... and there Is No Severing possible thereafter of me From the Lord or the Lord From me.

Key word COMMIT. That is the turning point that makes any severing Impossible.

The Division is not about a man committed to Christ then being separated from Christ.

The Division IS ....
Men committed to God and With Him
And
Men NOT committed to God and against Him

Endure to the End?

End of what?
My natural life-span?
Me wondering If Gods Power is Great enough to Keep me Committed?

Why would such a warning Apply to me?
It doesn't.

However it would very easily Apply to someone WHOSE Faithfulness IS maintained BY obedience TO the LAW.

Um.....like a Jew!

OT Jewish men were Saved by maintaining their obedience To Jewish Law till their death.

Did Jesus destroy Their Law so that they continuing to obey their Law (till their own death) would be for naught? No.

Do I do what They do? No.

I accept Jesus fulfilled Their Law. I am not subject to what they believe is unfulfilled prophecy...as they still are Enduring and waiting for their Law To Be fulfilled and accomplished.

I already have received my Salvation.
It doesn't matter on which moment I die,
And there IS no question IF I endured Keeping my Faith By having continually been in obedience to Jewish laws.

God Bless
Merry Christmas
SBC

 

[omega2xx]

.
I'm not arguing a theological point, I'm asking a question about what Scripture says.

The question being, if a Believer is Dead to Sin, how then does a Believer Sin?

Both Paul and Peter say We Are Dead to Sin.

Romans 6:2
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:11
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Peter 2:24
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being deadto sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

I misread your post. Sorry. Good question.

"Death in those verses is not literal. The analogy is that dead men can't do anything. Those truly born again are dead to the desire to sin. Our heart's desire is to be 100% obedient and God looks on the heart, not on the outward appearance.

Consider Rom 7:25: Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand, I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

Jesus also died to sin(Rom 6:10) and we know that He never sinned.

 

[SBC]

Are you really saying you never sin any more?

Absolutely!

Of course I must add, my not sinning Any More,
Is NOT to my credit.

All Credit IS soley Attributed To Gods Power within me.

So how about You?

Do You have Gods Power within you Keeping You Free from Sin?

Or do you teach you have Gods Power within you, but that Gods Power fails you...and you still sin?
Do you claim to have His Power within you,
But yet you still deny believing in Him? You speak Against His Word? You still doubt Him?

Or do you think Sin Is some kind of transgression or trespass you might commit against another person ?

It isn't.

Only God forgives Sin.
Sin is a transgression Against God.
God Forgives Sin Against Him, For the Sin Against Him OF DISBELIEF!
And For you corrupting Your soul that is in your corrupt Disbelieving Body.

It IS God that requires a man To Believe In Him and Commit To Him, and Give ones Life To Him, To receive Forgiveness and Full Faithfulness To Him,From Him.

How can You Sin Against Another person?
Were you required To Believe In other people, Commit and Give your Life To Other People?
Taught That other People can spiritually Kill your body of Sin? That other People can restore and Save your soul? Taught that other People can give you Gods Seed and thus Birth you a New spirit ? Taught that other People's spirit enters you and Keeps you Faithful To Them?

ONCE a man commits to God in TRUE heartfelt Belief....what God has promised He causes To Be effected.

It is a permanent Everlasting FOREVER relationship Between that man and God.
And THAT Man Is FREED From Sin. FREED From Ever Again STANDING Against God.
That man Can Never Again Sin.

What does That bonded relationship between one man And God have to do with that man and his relationships with other men?
Nothing.

God Bless
Merry Christmas
SBC

 

[omega2xx]

While I could be wrong, by what he has said so far, he appears to be teaching hardcore OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved). He is more than likely saying that when he physically sins, he does not sin on a spiritual level because Jesus paid for his sins past, present, and future. However, this false belief is condemned in 1 John 1:8 (of course). For the proper course of action to deal with sin so as to remain forgiven is to confess sin (1 John 1:9).

Since I have only read on of his post and I misread it, I can't comment on what he may be saying in his others.

OSAS is clearly taught in many verseshil 2:6, Heb 12:2, I Pet 1:23, Rom 8:1, Jn 3:18, Jn 5:24, and Jn 6:37-40. There are others but these will be enough for you to study and consider what they are teaching.

 

[SBC]

I misread your post. Sorry. Good question.

"Death in those verses is not literal. The analogy is that dead men can't do anything. Those truly born again are dead to the desire to sin. Our heart's desire is to be 100% obedient and God looks on the heart, not on the outward appearance.

Consider Rom 7:25: Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand, I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

Jesus also died to sin(Rom 6:10) and we know that He never sinned.

Men born of God, TRUE, Their Desire To Deny God, Stand Againt God Is squashed, removed, kaput!

However A mans desire to fornicate, to open a can of whoop [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] against another man, to Keep that extra money when a checkout clerk makes an error, or tell a little White Lie... IS not squashed, removed, kaput!

Men's Carnal MIND is still active....and Still steeped in knowledge OF HOW TO play all the little deceptive tricks To benefit Themselves.

It is not Gods JOB to prevent a man from making stupid choices.

God simply provides a Saved and Born Again man With the Tools to make good choices.

It is The mans choice To Use the so provided Tools...or not.

God does Not make a man listen To the Spirit of God , in the mans new spirit in his new heart.

That Is entirety up to the man to act and Do according to what God is teaching the mans spirit.... or ignore his spirit and instead act and do what his Carnal Mind is telling him to act and do.

And bummer....for the man who elects to ignore his spirit and follow his Mind and the consequences HE has to thereafter deal with.

Scripture is full of warnings to walk in the spirit, supersede the thoughts and actions of your mind, with the thoughts of you new spirit, in you new heart.

That is the mans JOB, not Gods.
That is the man using what God has provided the man, for the man to Change the DESIRES of "his own mind" to become LIKE Christ's Mind.

It's a process, an effort, an awareness, to make ones Mind be told...eh NO....you are not top dog anymore...the spirits thoughts now rule above all the little tricky and corrupt ideas you can conjure up.

Rom 12:2

God Bless
Merry Christmas
SBC

 

[omega2xx]

By your false accusation that I continually declare how much I sin, I am going to assume you believe that a believer can sin and still be saved. Is that correct? Please define for me what morality is? Also, how can God agree with a plan of salvation that violates His moral laws of goodness? Can God agree with sin? Surely not. God is holy, just, good, and loving.

Jesus' death paid for all of our sins, but it did not remove our sin nature. As long as we have a sin nature we will continue to sin. Less than before our conversion, but we will sin nevertheless.Heb 7:25---If we no longer sin, why is it necessary for Jesus to continually intercede for us?

 

[omega2xx]

Absolutely!

Of course I must add, my not sinning Any More,
Is NOT to my credit.

All Credit IS soley Attributed To Gods Power within me.

So how about You?

Do You have Gods Power within you Keeping You Free from Sin?

Or do you teach you have Gods Power within you, but that Gods Power fails you...and you still sin?
Do you claim to have His Power within you,
But yet you still deny believing in Him? You speak Against His Word? You still doubt Him?

Or do you think Sin Is some kind of transgression or trespass you might commit against another person ?

It isn't.

Only God forgives Sin.
Sin is a transgression Against God.
God Forgives Sin Against Him, For the Sin Against Him OF DISBELIEF!
And For you corrupting Your soul that is in your corrupt Disbelieving Body.

It IS God that requires a man To Believe In Him and Commit To Him, and Give ones Life To Him, To receive Forgiveness and Full Faithfulness To Him,From Him.

How can You Sin Against Another person?
Were you required To Believe In other people, Commit and Give your Life To Other People?
Taught That other People can spiritually Kill your body of Sin? That other People can restore and Save your soul? Taught that other People can give you Gods Seed and thus Birth you a New spirit ? Taught that other People's spirit enters you and Keeps you Faithful To Them?

ONCE a man commits to God in TRUE heartfelt Belief....what God has promised He causes To Be effected.

It is a permanent Everlasting FOREVER relationship Between that man and God.
And THAT Man Is FREED From Sin. FREED From Ever Again STANDING Against God.
That man Can Never Again Sin.

What does That bonded relationship between one man And God have to do with that man and his relationships with other men?
Nothing.

God Bless
Merry Christmas
SBC

You need to study, not just read Romans 7, which includes the following

7:14 - For we KNOW that the law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage of sin.

7:15 - For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but and doing he very thing I hate.

7:18 - For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is in my flesh; for the willing is present, but the doing of the good is not.

It seems that Paul continued to sin, but maybe, you are more spiritual than he was.

 

[omega2xx]

Men born of God, TRUE, Their Desire To Deny God, Stand Againt God Is squashed, removed, kaput!

However A mans desire to fornicate, to open a can of whoop [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] against another man, to Keep that extra money when a checkout clerk makes an error, or tell a little White Lie... IS not squashed, removed, kaput!

Men's Carnal MIND is still active....and Still steeped in knowledge OF HOW TO play all the little deceptive tricks To benefit Themselves.

It is not Gods JOB to prevent a man from making stupid choices.

God simply provides a Saved and Born Again man With the Tools to make good choices.

It is The mans choice To Use the so provided Tools...or not.

God does Not make a man listen To the Spirit of God , in the mans new spirit in his new heart.

That Is entirety up to the man to act and Do according to what God is teaching the mans spirit.... or ignore his spirit and instead act and do what his Carnal Mind is telling him to act and do.

And bummer....for the man who elects to ignore his spirit and follow his Mind and the consequences HE has to thereafter deal with.

Scripture is full of warnings to walk in the spirit, supersede the thoughts and actions of your mind, with the thoughts of you new spirit, in you new heart.

That is the mans JOB, not Gods.
That is the man using what God has provided the man, for the man to Change the DESIRES of "his own mind" to become LIKE Christ's Mind.

It's a process, an effort, an awareness, to make ones Mind be told...eh NO....you are not top dog anymore...the spirits thoughts now rule above all the little tricky and corrupt ideas you can conjure up.

Rom 12:2

God Bless
Merry Christmas
SBC

God doesn't not need to make a man listen to Him, Those truly born again will do it automatically. Then when we, like Paul do the very things we hate, God give us a way o be clean again I Jn 1:9. You might also pray about understanding I Jn 1:8.

 

[SBC]

Jesus' death paid for all of our sins, but it did not remove our sin nature.

Disagree.

There IS Nothing Whatsoever Of my Natural self that Can Ever Again Stand Against Belief In God.

Heb 7:25---If we no longer sin, why is it necessary for Jesus to continually intercede for us?

Can't say for Jason...

But for me? That doesn't Apply to me.
I don't have a middle man Jesus interceding,
Asking the Father Anything on my behalf.

Jesus "used" to intercede on my behalf...
But no more.

I went Through Jesus and reached Christ...my Lord, my God...

So now my communication Is directly with my God, Who Is Christ, Lord God Almighty.

I used to ... do what John 16:23 says.

But no more...Because My Day has already come to pass in the day I went through Jesus to confess Belief and He The Christ accepted my confession and Changed me.

Now John 16:26 Applies to me. My communication is Directly To my God, Christ the Lord, and His name JESUS, that is the Name Above All others.

Phi 2:9

God Bless
SBC

 

[SBC]

You need to study, not just read Romans 7, which includes the following

7:14 - For we KNOW that the law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage of sin.

7:15 - For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but and doing he very thing I hate.

7:18 - For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is in my flesh; for the willing is present, but the doing of the good is not.

It seems that Paul continued to sin, but maybe, you are more spiritual than he was.

Nope. It is Paul speaking about the warring that goes on between the minds desires and the hearts desires. What I just posted about.

It's your Job to make your mind listen to you heart.

Paul is simply telling you in his words HOW Difficult, and frustrating, it is to accomplish.

You are basically having a WAR with yourself... Your Mind and Your spirit.

And each Thing... trying to convince the other to relent and do what IT desires.

Already told you, it's Hard... If Paul's rendition better suits you, that's fine...

However it seems neither Paul's words or mine have succeeded in helping you to understand it is not about him Sinning, but rather about the constant Minds desires warring against the constant Hearts desires.

Paul speaks of Also what a relief when our physical body dies and we no longer have to deal with the Carnal mind trying to convince the heart to relent and go along with the minds desires.

God Bless
SBC

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus' death paid for all of our sins, but it did not remove our sin nature. As long as we have a sin nature we will continue to sin. Less than before our conversion, but we will sin nevertheless.Heb 7:25---If we no longer sin, why is it necessary for Jesus to continually intercede for us?

You are implying a lot by just one verse here. Does His forever living to intercede for us mean that it will help to save those saints who do occasionally struggle with sin until they overcome in this life? Or does it mean that He will intercede for them even while they murder, rape, commit adultery as a way of life?

You have to compare Scripture with Scripture.

The Bible teaches that we can overcome serious sin in this life. But that is a topic for another thread.

 

[SBC]

God doesn't not need to make a man listen to Him, Those truly born again will do it automatically. Then when we, like Paul do the very things we hate, God give us a way o be clean again I Jn 1:9. You might also pray about understanding I Jn 1:8.

Automatically you loved you enemies?
Wow that's awesome.

I didn't.

My mind was still saying...pfft. My enemies cause me grief...Thieves have stolen from me and done nothing to return my things or apologize or compensate.

However It was my heart that was saying forgive them, don't worry about the things Lost, but rather be thankful for the Permanent things from the Lord that can Never be Lost or taken from me by Any man.

What do you mean...saying...to me
1 John 1:9 ?

Are you wondering IF I have been Saved and Born Again ?

I think I have already been pretty clear that I have.

So what is your point with saying to me
1 John 1:9 ?

Is it your belief that is temporary and requires repeating?

Like Saved unsaved Saved unsaved... Born again unborn Born Again unborn....
Where is that taught?

and what is your point of saying to me
1 John 1:8 ?

Did you read something of me claiming To HAVE no sin? WHERE?

Please explain your purpose of telling me those scriptures.

God Bless
SBC

 

[omega2xx]

Automatically you loved you enemies?
Wow that's awesome.

I didn't.

My mind was still saying...pfft. My enemies cause me grief...Thieves have stolen from me and done nothing to return my things or apologize or compensate.

However It was my heart that was saying forgive them, don't worry about the things Lost, but rather be thankful for the Permanent things from the Lord that can Never be Lost or taken from me by Any man.

What do you mean...saying...to me
1 John 1:9 ?

Are you wondering IF I have been Saved and Born Again ?

I think I have already been pretty clear that I have.

So what is your point with saying to me
1 John 1:9 ?

Is it your belief that is temporary and requires repeating?

Like Saved unsaved Saved unsaved... Born again unborn Born Again unborn....
Where is that taught?

and what is your point of saying to me
1 John 1:8 ?

Did you read something of me claiming To HAVE no sin? WHERE?

Please explain your purpose of telling me those scriptures.

God Bless
SBC

If you say you are saved, I accept that you are.

The Scrippture Iq

 

[omega2xx]

Automatically you loved you enemies?
Wow that's awesome.

I didn't say you obeyed them, but you certainly know that God said you should.

I didn't.

Then you are being disobedient.

My mind was still saying...pfft. My enemies cause me grief...Thieves have stolen from me and done nothing to return my things or apologize or compensate.

However It was my heart that was saying forgive them, don't worry about the things Lost, but rather be thankful for the Permanent things from the Lord that can Never be Lost or taken from me by Any man.

The do what God commands us to do---Forgive them.

What do you mean...saying...to me 1 John 1:9 ?

It seemed appropriate for this discussion.

Are you wondering IF I have been Saved and Born Again ?

No.

I think I have already been pretty clear that I have.

Someone saying they are saved does not mean they are. However I will take your word that you are.

Is it your belief that is temporary and requires repeating?

Like Saved unsaved Saved unsaved... Born again unborn Born Again unborn....
Where is that taught?

???

and what is your point of saying to me
1 John 1:8 ?

Did you read something of me claiming To HAVE no sin? WHERE?

It seemed to me that is what you were saying. I am not going to backtrack and find what you said.

Please explain your purpose of telling me those scriptures.

God Bless
SBC

I don't know what you know and they seemed be appropriate to what you said.


Have a + day.

 

[omega2xx]

You are implying a lot by just one verse here. Does His forever living to intercede for us mean that it will help to save those saints who do occasionally struggle with sin until they overcome in this life? Or does it mean that He will intercede for them even while they murder, rape, commit adultery as a way of life?

It means He will speak to God about your sins.

You have to compare Scripture with Scripture.

Of course

The Bible teaches that we can overcome serious sin in this life. But that is a topic for another thread.

It does not.