What is the purpose of the thousand-year reign of Christ?

[DavidPT]

If you don't believe the unsaved are resurrected also on the day of Jesus' return, then you stand in contradiction to what He taught in John 5:28-29:

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

By that our Lord Jesus revealed that BOTH resurrections will occur at the same time of His second coming.

In 1 Cor.15:53, Paul uses four different Greek words for the change he spoke of; "corruptible", "incorruption", "mortal", and "immortality" are four different Greek words in the NT manuscripts, and have four different meanings.

In a nutshell, those who have done evil will be given resurrected bodies too. Afterall, that is the meaning of "the resurrection of damnation".

So what's the difference between them and those of us who belong to Christ Jesus? Well, what was the difference our Lord Jesus showed Nicodemus about being saved? and according to Paul with his idea of those in Christ becoming a "new creature"?

Maybe you can then answer when the remnant in Rev 19:21 are also resurrected at His coming, the fact the remnant are still alive until Jesus kills them per that verse. When the 7th trumpet sounds, is Rev 19:21 meaning before it sounds, or after it has sounded? Not interested in any of this nonsense that all of these events occur in this same twinkling of an eye mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:52. That's a convenient interpretation that does not have to deal with any chronology of these events. As if there is no chronology of any kind, though we know there clearly is, the fact the dead rise first, followed by those still alive meeting them in the air---that shows a chronology of events, yet none of these things also take into account the beast and it's armies in Rev 19.

 

[DavidPT]

Not really correct. We cannot leave off other Scripture which declares where our Lord Jesus and His elect are coming at His return. Acts 1 and Zechariah 14 reveal our Lord Jesus returning to this earth, specifically to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem where He ascended from. Zechariah 14 is also specific that He brings all the saints with Him there when He comes.

What your preachers apparently have not shown you is how God's Word reveals the saints that have already died return with Jesus in the clouds, and then those of us still alive on earth are then "caught up" to them (1 Thess.4), and then we all together go to Jerusalem on earth, where our Lord Jesus' feet will touch down upon the Mount of Olives (Zech.14).

In other words, we are NOT... going to live in the clouds with the earth then being destroyed. Those sensationalist preachers you're listening to are filling you with their own doctrines of men (apparently the one Darby began in 1830's Britain).

I agree with you here.

Consider what our Lord Jesus said in John 5:28-29 about those who did evil being also resurrected on that same day as those of the resurrection of life.

So why don't I also agree with you here?

Your position to me is somewhat confusing.

 

[Davy]

Maybe you can then answer when the remnant in Rev 19:21 are also resurrected at His coming, the fact the remnant are still alive until Jesus kills them per that verse. When the 7th trumpet sounds, is Rev 19:21 meaning before it sounds, or after it has sounded? Not interested in any of this nonsense that all of these events occur in this same twinkling of an eye mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:52. That's a convenient interpretation that does not have to deal with any chronology of these events. As if there is no chronology of any kind, though we know there clearly is, the fact the dead rise first, followed by those still alive meeting them in the air---that shows a chronology of events, yet none of these things also take into account the beast and it's armies in Rev 19.

The error many make is by not fully understanding what Paul taught about the change at the twinkling of an eye for those still alive on earth is not just for His Church only. Apostle Paul was pulling from Isaiah 25 about death being swallowed up in victory, and it applies to all nations on earth, not just the saints still alive. The difference is the wicked will still have mortal souls that are still liable to the "second death", which is the casting into the "lake of fire" at the end of the 1,000 years.

On the day our Lord Jesus returns, which is the day of The Lord per the OT prophets and Christ's Apostles, God's consuming fire is going to usher all alive on earth into the spiritual age of Christ's future Kingdom reign on earth, the "thousand years" of Rev.20, Ezek.40-47, Zech.14, Rev.22:14-15.

 

[Davy]

I agree with you here.
....

So why don't I also agree with you here?

Your position to me is somewhat confusing.

I think you actually mean what our Lord Jesus said there in John 5:28-29 is confusing you. He is saying the resurrection of damnation will occur on that same timing when the resurrection of life occurs, which is on the day of His coming. But of course that is not what the majority teach from Scripture. Instead the majority think the resurrection of damnation will occur at the end of the "thousand years" of Rev.20. Those John 5:28-29 reveals different.

 

[Davy]

Not dealing with what you originally said, are you?---Ok. Good night.

My last post dealt with what you had declared, and why I pointed you to Scripture like Acts 1 and Zech.14 about where Jesus will return to when He comes, bringing all the saints with Him. And I also pointed to what you said about the 1,000 years, which was what my post about the John 5:28-29 verses was about.

But you failed to address... any of those Scriptures.

 

[DavidPT]

I think you actually mean what our Lord Jesus said there in John 5:28-29 is confusing you. He is saying the resurrection of damnation will occur on that same timing when the resurrection of life occurs, which is on the day of His coming. But of course that is not what the majority teach from Scripture. Instead the majority think the resurrection of damnation will occur at the end of the "thousand years" of Rev.20. Those John 5:28-29 reveals different.

It seems to me you are placing the thousand years into the future, if I have been understanding you correctly. And if so, it also seems to me that your interpretation of John 5:28-29 is in direct conflict with your position on the thousand years, and the fact Rev 20 very clearly states that the rest of the dead lived not again until after the thousand years are finished. Obviously that has to mean they remain dead during the thousand years.

 

[Davy]

It seems to me you are placing the thousand years into the future, if I have been understanding you correctly. And if so, it also seems to me that your interpretation of John 5:28-29 is in direct conflict with your position on the thousand years, and the fact Rev 20 very clearly states that the rest of the dead lived not again until after the thousand years are finished. Obviously that has to mean they remain dead during the thousand years.

You apparently don't understand who those "dead" of Rev.20:5 are, and instead have latched onto a pop flesh doctrine of man. The majority don't understand who those "dead" really are either, so you're not alone in that.

What our Lord Jesus said in John 5:28-29 is that BOTH resurrection types occur on the SAME DAY of His return.

What that means is that we all... must agree with our Lord Jesus on that, and... we must interpret other Scripture about the wicked dead in comparison with that. That stands as a direct statement by our Lord Jesus, not a parable, not a metaphor, etc. And when He gives direct statements like that, it serves as an anchor point in Scripture. And the Bible student is then faced with a choice to... either accept what He said and grow in understanding of His Word, or... disregard it in favor of some popular doctrine of men.

The John 5:28-29 verses are very obvious as to the timing. There's only one time event when all in the graves will hear Christ's voice and come out to their respective resurrection type. It's at Christ's return in our near future. And that... is when Christ's "thousand years" reign with His elect will begin.

 

[DavidPT]

You apparently don't understand who those "dead" of Rev.20:5 are, and instead have latched onto a pop flesh doctrine of man. The majority don't understand who those "dead" really are either, so you're not alone in that.

What our Lord Jesus said in John 5:28-29 is that BOTH resurrection types occur on the SAME DAY of His return.

What that means is that we all... must agree with our Lord Jesus on that, and... we must interpret other Scripture about the wicked dead in comparison with that. That stands as a direct statement by our Lord Jesus, not a parable, not a metaphor, etc. And when He gives direct statements like that, it serves as an anchor point in Scripture. And the Bible student is then faced with a choice to... either accept what He said and grow in understanding of His Word, or... disregard it in favor of some popular doctrine of men.

The John 5:28-29 verses are very obvious as to the timing. There's only one time event when all in the graves will hear Christ's voice and come out to their respective resurrection type. It's at Christ's return in our near future. And that... is when Christ's "thousand years" reign with His elect will begin.

John 5:28-29 doesn't say when this takes place, but that it takes place. Rev 20 fills in the when. The resurrection unto life is meaning the first resurrection. The resurrection unto damnation is meaning when the rest of the dead live again. Rev 20 places the first resurrection at the beginning of the thousand years. It places the resurrection of the rest of the dead after the the thousand years have finished. Your interpretation of John 5:28-29 contradicts that if you place the thousand years after Christ has returned. If you instead had placed the thousand years prior to Christ's return, such as Amils do, maybe then your interpretation of John 5:28-29 could possibly work.

 

[BABerean2]

John 5:28-29 doesn't say when this takes place, but that it takes place. Rev 20 fills in the when. The resurrection unto life is meaning the first resurrection. The resurrection unto damnation is meaning when the rest of the dead live again. Rev 20 places the first resurrection at the beginning of the thousand years. It places the resurrection of the rest of the dead after the the thousand years have finished. Your interpretation of John 5:28-29 contradicts that if you place the thousand years after Christ has returned. If you instead had placed the thousand years prior to Christ's return, such as Amils do, maybe then your interpretation of John 5:28-29 could possibly work.

The when is found in Revelation 11:18.

 

[Davy]

It seems to me you are placing the thousand years into the future, if I have been understanding you correctly. And if so, it also seems to me that your interpretation of John 5:28-29 is in direct conflict with your position on the thousand years, and the fact Rev 20 very clearly states that the rest of the dead lived not again until after the thousand years are finished. Obviously that has to mean they remain dead during the thousand years.

Well, that's an interpretation, but not the reality of it at all. I accept the John 5:28-29 Scripture by our Lord Jesus as... written. That means without any bias of man's doctrines about the "dead" of Rev.20.

When brethren ought to be understanding that John 5:28-29 Scripture in conjunction with what Apostle Paul taught about the resurrection in 1 Cor.15 and 2 Cor.5 and 1 Thess.4, and from the prophets like Isaiah 25, etc., they instead allow men's doctrine about a Scripture like Rev.20 to change the meaning of what Paul and God's prophets, and our Lord Jesus taught (like the John 5:28-29 example).

That's where the conflict with John 5:28-28 comes from.

John 5:28-29 is hard-linked to the event of our Lord Jesus' 2nd coming on the day of The Lord. The idea of all in the graves hearing His voice is about the shout on the last trump...

1 Thess 4:16
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
KJV

Thus there's no mistaking the timing of the John 5:28-29 event of those in the graves hearing His voice on the last day of this world. Nor should there be any mistaking there that He linked the resurrection with that shout, because Apostle Paul taught the same thing.

Paul just didn't make direct statements of how the wicked dead will be raised on that day of the resurrection also. But our Lord Jesus did, and it's that John 5:28-29 Scripture.

 

[Riberra]

The when is found in Revelation 11:18.

1 Corinthians 15:23
23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ's, at his coming =Revelation 20:4-6


All those [good or bad]not part of Revelation 20:4-6.
John 5:28
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, = Revelation 20:11-15

 

[Davy]

1 Cor.15 and especially Isaiah 25 where Apostle Paul was pulling from about death being swallowed up in victory, is not just for Christ's Church.

In 1 Cor.15:49 Paul showed us that as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Have the wicked also borne the image of the earthy? Yes. is there a resurrection for the wicked also? Yes, as per our Lord Jesus in John 5:28-29.

Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
KJV

Jesus said that to the Church at Philadelphia. That will only occur during His future thousand years reign with His elect per Rev.20. The "synagogue of Satan" represent the flesh servants of the devil here on earth. So no way can those ever said to be of Christ's Church. Nor or they of true orthodox Judah, for Jesus says they only "say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie", meaning they are false Jews, pointing to the old Canaanite nations that crept in among Judah long ago.

Yet, there they are, bowing at the feet of Christ's elect, in worship. They wouldn't be worshiping Christ's elect either, but obviously our Lord Jesus Who will be standing next to His elect Church in that future time. Those will include the "resurrection of damnation" Jesus mentioned in John 5:28-29.

 

[BABerean2]

1 Corinthians 15:23
23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ's, at his coming =Revelation 20:4-6


All those [good or bad]not part of Revelation 20:4-6.
John 5:28
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, = Revelation 20:11-15

Keep skipping over "the nations" and "wrath" and "the time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18 and maybe you can make the above work.

Also, keep trying to claim that the signs in the sun, moon, and stars in the Olivet Discourse have nothing to do with Revelation chapter 6.
Maybe very few people know that the moon does not give its light during a blood moon.

Maybe nobody will notice that Christ returns in Revelation 16:15-16 and also in chapter 19...

If you do all of the above, maybe you can convince at least a few people that the Book of Revelation is in chronological order.



.

 

[Riberra]

1 Cor.15 and especially Isaiah 25 where Apostle Paul was pulling from about death being swallowed up in victory, is not just for Christ's Church.

BUT Each in his OWN ORDER...

1 Corinthians 15:23
23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ's, at his coming =Revelation 20:4-6


All those [good or bad]not part of Revelation 20:4-6.
John 5:28
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, = Revelation 20:11-15

 

[Riberra]

If you do all of the above, maybe you can convince at least a few people that the Book of Revelation is in chronological order.

Only the first part of Revelation 12 is about history lesson....That is needed to tell us about the conflict betwen Jesus [God]and Satan...that conflict will include the remnant of the Woman seed [Christians]...that Satan will be ALLOWED to physically overcome us.

 

[Davy]

BUT Each in his OWN ORDER...

1 Corinthians 15:23
23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ's, at his coming =Revelation 20:4-6


All those [good or bad]not part of Revelation 20:4-6.
John 5:28
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, = Revelation 20:11-15

You have left out a major part of the John 5 Scripture just to try and prove a doctrine that goes directly against those Scriptures...

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

If that "resurrection of life" has to wait until the Rev.20:11 verse, then that would mean there is no Church ruling with Christ for that thousand years.

You're not thinking.

 

[Riberra]

You have left out a major part of the John 5 Scripture just to try and prove a doctrine that goes directly against those Scriptures...

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

If that "resurrection of life" has to wait until the Rev.20:11 verse, then that would mean there is no Church ruling with Christ for that thousand years.

You're not thinking.

But you are the one who chose to ignore that Revelation 20:4-6 is about the RESURRECTION of those who will rule with Christ during a thousand years.
Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Davy]

But you are the one who chose to ignore that Revelation 20:4-6 is about the RESURRECTION of those who will rule with Christ during a thousand years.
Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

No, I don't ignore the Rev.20:4-6 Scripture. That's about the elect of Christ's Church who will reign with Him for the thousand years. But who... are they reigning over for that thousand years? The nations and... the "resurrection of damnation".

So what's going on? We know the "resurrection of damnation" are not in Heaven then, but on earth. And Jesus showed they are there during that thousand years by the John 5:28-29.

I have to keep bringing up the John 5:28-29 Scripture because many here refuse to recognize what it declares about the wicked dead being resurrected at the same time as the dead in Christ, on the day of Jesus' return.

 

[Riberra]

No, I don't ignore the Rev.20:4-6 Scripture. That's about the elect of Christ's Church who will reign with Him for the thousand years. But who... are they reigning over for that thousand years?

Upon those that will be left alive in a mortal body

Zechariah 14 give more details.

The nations and... the "resurrection of damnation".

So what's going on? We know the "resurrection of damnation" are not in Heaven then, but on earth. And Jesus showed they are there during that thousand years by the John 5:28-29.

I have to keep bringing up the John 5:28-29 Scripture because many here refuse to recognize what it declares about the wicked dead being resurrected at the same time as the dead in Christ, on the day of Jesus' return.

In John 5:28-29 there is no mention of the Coming of Jesus....

 

[Davy]

Since John 5:28-29 shows the "resurrection of damnation" will occur on the same day as the "resurrection of life" when Jesus returns, then who are the "dead" in Rev.20:5?

If you understand John 5:28-29, then one cannot say the wicked dead are only raised at the end of the Rev.20 thousand years.