Do we need the law to stay righteous?

[Blood Bought 1953]

Romans 2:6-7 clearly, and I mean clearly, declares that eternal life goes to those who persist in pursuing good.

Test test. Y iPad is fried

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Test test. Y iPad is fried

My post have not been getting through. If I try to fix a typo everything erases.. I have to keep these posts short..I spend hours typing and everything va is he’s
See what I mean? Iwillpost in s ippets

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

My post have not been getting through. If I try to fix a typo everything erases.. I have to keep these posts short..I spend hours typing and everything va is he’s
See what I mean? Iwillpost in s ippets

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

You are evading, and tossing in a little pontificating to boot.

Make your case! Don't preach. How does Romans 4:24 teach that what we are imputed with is specifically the Righteousness of God or Jesus, and not a general status of Righteousness that is accorded to defendant's in lawcourts when they are acquitted.

When OJ Simpson was deemed to be "innocent" in his trial, whose "righteousness" did he get.

No one's of course.

OJ Simpson and sinners are not equivalent comparisons. You refuse to see that. OJ Simpson was acquitted, found not guilty. He did not need anyone to stand in for him.

Mankind on the other hand, was found guilty and given the death sentence.Lord Jesus saw our guilt and died IN OUR PLACE , to satisfy our death sentence. He took our sin upon Himself and gave us His righteousness. If you do not believe this, I would like to know how are YOU are you made righteous? Do YOU even need Lord Jesus?

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Expos. We are in agreement the man who is saved....the man that believes Paul’s Gospel will find himself fulfilling this or any other command....hope this goes through..would be a shame for these masterpiece. Posts. To be lost. Haha. e

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Paul teaches us those Christians who will receive eternal life or not.


5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath. Romans 2:5-8


Read it -

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath.

JLB

Paul’s Gospel in itself reveals who will be saved....those that BELIEVE it. Faith plus nothing......Paul refers to
His Gospel as “ by which You are SAVED.

In time that Believer. Will FIND. Himself doing any and all things required. I can’t repair typos. Sorry. e er he

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

And you are misrepresenting me as well! I have clearly stated that it is the indwelling Spirit, not moral self-effort that produces saving good works.

Wait a minute! There are NO saving good work other than believing on the one our Father has sent. You say you you don't have the righteousness of God the Son, and that is the indwelling Holy Spirit. So how am I misrepresenting you? You are convoluting in your quote above. OK, Maybe I am just misunderstanding what you are saying. How can you say you have the indwelling Holy Spirit but you don't have His righteousness?

 

[faroukfarouk]

Wait a minute! There are NO saving good work other than believing on the one our Father has sent. You say you you don't have the righteousness of God the Son, and that is the indwelling Holy Spirit. So how am I misrepresenting you? You are convoluting in your quote above. OK, Maybe I am just misunderstanding what you are saying. How can you say you have the indwelling Holy Spirit but you don't have His righteousness?

Romans 5.21 says 'grace reigns through righteousness'; but this is not the same as saying that the New Testament believer is back under the law again. Romans begins and ends with references to 'the obedience of faith'; 'obedience to the faith'. In obedience, we can rejoice in Christ as those who are under grace, not legal bondage.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Paul’s Gospel in itself reveals who will be saved....those that BELIEVE it. Faith plus nothing......Paul refers to
His Gospel as “ by which You are SAVED.

In time that Believer. Will FIND. Himself doing any and all things required. I can’t repair typos. Sorry. e er he

The Believer will be lead by the HolySpirit to o do all things that are required by God for salvation.His Word is at stake.God.God Add Add the promise. Sorry.
God made the promise to save....to put it crudely ,, the monkey is on Gods back. If the Bible says we must elite e
Sorry. If we must believe Paul’s Gospel and then go to the top of t. mt Everest....God will get us there.hope this gets through g. God bless

 

[Doug Melven]

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

It looks like you are saying Christ saved us, but now in order to get that eternal life we need to persist in doing good.
This only would I learn from you, are you so foolish having begun in the Spirit, are you now made perfect by the flesh? Galatians 3:1-3 paraphrase.
God saved us, He has a plan for us. He has specific good works for us to do.
When He says He will render to us according to our deeds, He cannot be referring to salvation, but He is talking about rewards. Believers get rewards, unbelievers go to a different place and get indignation and wrath.
Believers have not been delivered from wrath by Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 1:10

Yes I think each person will be rewarded for their deeds. The unregenerate have a different judgment to attend than the the Christian. John 5:24 says the Christians has passed the judgment the wicked will attend. My opinion is the judgment of the Christian will be more like a roll call and reward for their good works.

Yes, what he said.

I never denied this. But you appear to deny Romans 2:6-7 where Paul clearly links how we live with final destiny.

I affirm both the John text AND the Romans 2 text. I will need to post more to explain.

For the present, do you affirm the correctness of Romans 2:6-7. If so, please explain how Paul is doing something other than saying that how we live matters into salvation.

How we live CANNOT matter into salvation.
If it did then our salvation would be up to us and the eternal life He gave us as a gift would no longer be eternal.
Perfection would have to be maintained all the time. James says if you break one commandment you broke all of them. If you tell a little white lie ( a man-made definition to make it seem not so bad) you are guilty of all of God's commandments. James said to him that knows to do good and does it not to him it is sin. What would happen to a person that didn't do what he knew to do and before he had a chance to repent, he died?
Remember, he is guilty of breaking all of God's commands at that point.
That is why I love Micah 6:8
He has shown you O man what is good and what does the LORD require of you but to do justly, to love mercy and to walk humbly with thy God.
We really need mercy for when we don't do the other 2 things in this verse.

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

Righteousness we get is the Righteousness of God or Jesus. Of course, God is the SOURCE of the righteous status we are imputed with. But I see no Biblical case that God sees is as possessing Jesus's righteousness.

"Christ in you, the hope of glory" Colossians 1:26-27...something is being revealed...within...at first dimly (in the mirror) then face to face...and we will know as fully as we have always been known...
1 Corinthians 13:12

As surely as Jesus was a son of God...Romans 8:29 For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.

...we will be like Him...But it is not something we can reveal/cause to be known by our 'self'...for only HE can reveal and overcome the darkness...the process taking place within us by faith (believing His promises to be true and possible by the power of Christ)...the same spirit that raised Jesus from the grave...lives in us...but first the other seed has to die/duality end ...but each man in his own order/turn
1 Corinthians 15:22-23

The law written upon our hearts...not tablets of stone...internal/inner truth being revealed...a son of God in spirit and in Truth....

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

Mankind on the other hand, was found guilty and given the death sentence.Lord Jesus saw our guilt and died IN OUR PLACE , to satisfy our death sentence. He took our sin upon Himself and gave us His righteousness.

Hmmmm....we are to take up our cross, follow Him...The Way...the door (back) to all that Adam lost in the fall...Alpha and Omega, First and Last Adam...Beginning and the end (of our faith...) Truth being revealed withing...duality - carnal/spirit...one must die for the other to live...

John 14:5 “Lord,” said Thomas, “we do not know where You are going, so how can we know the way?” 6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

John 10:9 I am the gate. If anyone enters through Me, he will be saved. He will come in and go out and find pasture.

John 12:24 Truly, truly, I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a seed; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. 25 Whoever loves his life will lose it, but whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life...

Matthew 16:23 But Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me. For you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men.” 24 Then Jesus told His disciples, "If anyone would come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me. 25 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.…

 

[expos4ever]

OJ Simpson and sinners are not equivalent comparisons. You refuse to see that. OJ Simpson was acquitted, found not guilty. He did not need anyone to stand in for him.

Forget the analogy then. Do you have any knowledge of how the Hebrew lawcourt worked? Stated simply, the judge imputes a status of righteousness to whichever of two parties (accuser, defendant) is deemed to be in the right.

The judge simply declares that this person is "righteous" - "in the right". There is no issue of the judge saying this party "you have been imputed with my righteousness" or "you have been imputed with God's righteousness".

The person is simply declared to be "in the right". It is abundantly clear that one can be declared "in the right" without having to be considered as possessing someone else's righteousness".

We should not have to talk about this - it's obvious.

Mankind on the other hand, was found guilty and given the death sentence.Lord Jesus saw our guilt and died IN OUR PLACE , to satisfy our death sentence. He took our sin upon Himself and gave us His righteousness. If you do not believe this, I would like to know how are YOU are you made righteous? Do YOU even need Lord Jesus?

You are simply assuming that we are given Jesus's righteousness.

How do you that Jesus's blood does not simply wash away our sin, making us "righteous" in the sense of being cleansed.

You cannot possibly miss the following explanation: If you are clean, and get washed, you become clean without, repeat without getting someone else's cleanliness.

If you deny this, you are not being honest - it's obvious to even a child. So an honest person knows that cleanliness can be acquired without being given someone else's cleanliness.

Why not righteousness, then?

 

[expos4ever]

Expos. We are in agreement the man who is saved....the man that believes Paul’s Gospel will find himself fulfilling this or any other command....hope this goes through..would be a shame for these masterpiece. Posts. To be lost. Haha. e

Agree! Agree!

 

[expos4ever]

Wait a minute! There are NO saving good work other than believing on the one our Father has sent.

You must deal with this text from Romans 2, and I will not stop reminding you until you do:

who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;

Now then: what is Paul saying here?

How can you say you have the indwelling Holy Spirit but you don't have His righteousness?

Surely you must know what I will say. I could ask you this: if you have the indwelling Spirit of God, how do you not also have the Spirit's sinless perfection? Clearly, the Christian has the indwelling Spirit. And it is equally clear that we do not necessarily inherit all the attributes of the Spirit.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Forget the analogy then. Do you have any knowledge of how the Hebrew lawcourt worked? Stated simply, the judge imputes a status of righteousness to whichever of two parties (accuser, defendant) is deemed to be in the right.

The judge simply declares that this person is "righteous" - "in the right". There is no issue of the judge saying this party "you have been imputed with my righteousness" or "you have been imputed with God's righteousness".

The person is simply declared to be "in the right". It is abundantly clear that one can be declared "in the right" without having to be considered as possessing someone else's righteousness".

We should not have to talk about this - it's obvious.


You are simply assuming that we are given Jesus's righteousness.

How do you that Jesus's blood does not simply wash away our sin, making us "righteous" in the sense of being cleansed.

You cannot possibly miss the following explanation: If you are clean, and get washed, you become clean without, repeat without getting someone else's cleanliness.

If you deny this, you are not being honest - it's obvious to even a child. So an honest person knows that cleanliness can be acquired without being given someone else's cleanliness.

Why not righteousness, then?

If you have the indwelling Holy Spirit then you have His Righteousness! I don't see why you cannot accept this.Salvation is a supernatural gift of God. Not of works lest any any man should boast about something he did not work to get. Stop trying to make it mundane.

 

[expos4ever]

"Christ in you, the hope of glory" Colossians 1:26-27...something is being revealed...within...at first dimly (in the mirror) then face to face...and we will know as fully as we have always been known...
1 Corinthians 13:12

Where does this text say we get Christ's righteousness?

Yes, it it says we have "Christ in us".

But, using your logic, we would possess all the other attributes of Jesus.

Was the universe created through you as it was through Jesus? Why not, given that Christ is "in" you?
Does God see you as having died to save humanity? Why not, given that Christ is "in" you?

 

[expos4ever]

If you have the indwelling Holy Spirit then you have His Righteousness!

Where is your Biblical proof? Clearly you must understand that you DO NOT have the sinless perfection of the Holy Spirit.

So why do we get the "righteousness" of the Spirit and NOT the sinlessness?

Answer the question, please.

I don't see why you cannot accept this.Salvation is a supernatural gift of God. Not of works lest any any man should boast about something he did not work to get. Stop trying to make it mundane.

Are you dishonest, or have you overlooked the fact that at least twice I have clearly stated that it is the Holy Spirit that produces the good works. So how am I in a position to boast?

You must deal with this text from Romans 2, and I will not stop reminding you until you do:

who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;

Now then: what is Paul saying here?

You need to answer - I will keep asking.

 

[expos4ever]

Handmaid, you must deal with Romans 2. Just as I must deal with Ephesians 2 "it's not of works" statement. Since I debate fairly, I will address your text - please address mine.


Here is Ephesians 2:8-9 from the NASB:

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that (Y)no one may boast.

In verse 9, the writer is denying the salvific power of doing the works of Law of Moses, and not that of the more general category of “good works”.

A point of method: It simply will not do to declare up front that the writer is talking about good works here. That begs the question, since the term “works” is not qualified by the term “good” or anything else that would rule out the possibility that the “works” of the Law of Moses is the subject. The fair-minded reader needs to ask which of the following views makes more sense given both the local context and the broader context of the whole letter:

1. The salvific power of doing good works is being denied;

2. The salvific power of doing the works of the Law of Moses is being denied.

Explanation 2 is the one that makes sense in light of what the writer goes on to say in verse 11.

Proceeding to an examination of Ephesians 2:11 and following, the author uses the "therefore" to show us that he is now going to fill out the implications of his denial of salvation by “works”

Therefore remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

The writer is clearly now talking about the Jew-Gentile divide, and how the actions of Jesus have brought Jew and Gentile together. Doing the works of Law of Moses, of course, is what demarcates Jew from Gentile in terms of covenant membership and shuts the Gentile out of citizenship in Israel. The writer continues:

14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations

How much more clear could the writer be? What has divided the Jew from the Gentile and been the barrier? Good works? Obviously not, both Jew and Gentile are on “the same side” of any good works barrier (first 20 or so verses of Romans 3). It is doing the works of Law of Moses, of course, that is the very thing that the Jew might otherwise boast in and which is now being declared to not be salvific.

 

[expos4ever]

How we live CANNOT matter into salvation.

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Nothing personal, but I will go with Paul.