Few will be saved?

[Marvin Knox]

.......Not only would the multitude not enter in, but many rejecting the gate, would desire to enter into the Kingdom and not to be able. And, moreover, when once the master of the house has risen up, and the door was shut, it would be too late. He would say unto them, 'I know you not, or whence you are". [DARBY]

I agree.

Jesus Christ and His righteousness is the narrow gate to salvation. We must be hidden in the cleft of the Rock when we see God. Those who attempt to enter into God's presence based on their own righteousness will be burned with unquenchable fire.

Multitudes were unable to enter in because they did not have faith that God was able to deliver them from the enemy.

Faith is the "assurance" of the hope of salvation. It is not the hope of salvation itself.

One must believe that Jesus is able to keep what we have entrusted to Him against the day of judgment. Anything less is not true faith.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I think it means that of everybody who will ever live and die from the beginning of time until the apocalypse, only a minority will go to Heaven.

It's just that simple.

And when we look around and see all the people who have styled the Bible to mean what they want it to, Christs words on that add up pretty well.

Get serious and make it, don't, and don't.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Here they are for all to see. They are obviously not the same. One has to do with God agreeing to a certain plan of salvation. The other has to do with God agreeing with sin.
Jason0047 said: ↑
But wouldn't God have to agree with your idea or plan of salvation that says you can sin again in the future and yet still be saved?
Marvin said: Yes.
Jason0047 said: ↑
Would not God have to agree with sin in order for this plan of salvation to work?
Marvin said: No.

Not sure how you don't get it. They are the same question in essence. Agreeing with a plan of salvation that makes for an allowance for sin is God agreeing with sin. This would mean God would have to save man knowing that he is going to sin and turn a blind eye. It is not a plan of salvation that leads men into righteousness but into continued sin. Seeing God is holy and just, He cannot agree with man's thinking that He can sin again as a part of salvation. God cannot agree with sin, so your idea of a plan of salvation is flawed. Yes, God can forgive us if we sin, but this is with the intent that God wants to reform us. This is with the intent that we are forsaking our sin and not admitting that we will sin again.

God's decision will depend on which persons have their life hidden in Jesus Christ and which are presenting their own righteousness as a means of commending themselves to God for salvation.

There is none good but God. Any good a believer does is by the Lord Jesus working in them. A believer cooperates with the Lord and the good work He wants to do in them. It's Syngeristic, but the Lord gets all the glory because it is God who ultimately is doing the good through a believer. So your idea that I am trying to save myself by my own good deeds alone is misguided.

"The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’ I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.” Luke 18:11-14

Yes, it was wrong for the Pharisee to judge the Tax Collector who was repenting of his sins that he was struggling with. The problem in the Parable of the Tax Collector is that the Pharisee was not repenting of his sins like the Tax Collector. The point is not so as to remain in sin. How so? Well, if the Lord was teaching us to remain in our sins, then that would be wrong to think that. God always wants us to live holy and upright. The Pharisee did not repent (ask forgiveness of his sins), which is where faith begins or starts. A new believer admits their sins and they seek to overcome them. If a believer sees a fellow brother struggle with their sin (that they are confessing), they will seek to help them overcome it.

In 1 John 5:16-17 we see that we are to pray for a fellow believer who is commiting a sin that does not lead unto death (i.e. confessed sin) so as to get them to have life (victory over their sin). In other words, we are to bear one another's burdens and thuse fulfill the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2).

The Pharisee was not doing this. He was not seeking to help the Tax Collector overcome his sin. Then again, the Pharisee was not repenting of his own sin to begin with like the Tax Collector. Therein was his problem. He did not admit his sins before God and cry out for mercy. But nowhere is the Parable of the Tax Collector saying that this is a picture of the entire life of a believer. In fact, we know that such is not the case because 2 Corinthians 7:1 says, "...let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."

As I said before -
"I sincerely wish you all the best with your religion."

And you are not answering all of the verses I brought forth for you.
This shows me that what your are teaching here is not true and cannot be found within the Scriptures.

 

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

Yes, I got that from the start - it was obvious what you were posting. And it is false - it is directly opposed to His Word.

Look, I can pull out more quotes, and overlook your evading my hard questions....


But, when the time comes (which may be any day now), and you are trembling in abject terror because you have some balances not cleared... then what respite will you have?

I will end this here, on this, as you have ignored my hard questions, consistently, and just provide a gentle reminder to study closely the book of Jonah. And meditate on it. Then, you will see what I am saying.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Look, I can pull out more quotes, and overlook your evading my hard questions....

"more" ??
As far as I remember, you never once quoted anything that supports your posts.

 

[Marvin Knox]

.......Agreeing with a plan of salvation that makes for an allowance for sin is God agreeing with sin. This would mean God would have to save man knowing that he is going to sin and turn a blind eye.......

Here you have demonstrated the vast difference between our two religions.

You fail to see that God's only "allowance for sin" is God crushing His own Son precisely because of our sins which He took upon Himself.

You fail to see that God's saving men by taking all of their sins upon Himself and pouring out His unmitigated wrath on Himself is not, as you charge, "turning a blind eye to sin".

It is quite the opposite in fact - just as our two religions are opposites when all is said and done.

You cannot be justified before God by keeping the law - whether written on tablets of stone or in our hearts via our conscience.

While obeying God by keeping the law is commendable in many ways - trying to obey in order to achieve salvation is not commendable in any way whatsoever.

The moment you fail in one area you have failed in all areas. That's why it's so far from true faith in Christ's work at Calvary that it is an entirely different way of achieving salvation than the scriptures present to us.

To preach a gospel which presents a path to salvation by trying to totally overcome sin in order to be acceptable in God's sight is preaching another gospel altogether from the one delivered to me.

It may or may not be true that your walk with the Lord is closer than mine and it may or may not be true that my walk with the Lord is closer than yours.

But what is patently clear is that your religion is diametrically opposed to mine.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You cannot be justified before God by keeping the law - whether written on tablets of stone or in our hearts via our conscience.

ohoh....
here's
what
God's Word Says Plainly:

Romans 2:13-15Tree of Life Version (TLV)

13 For it is not the hearers of Torah who are righteous before God; rather, it is the doers of Torah who will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the Torah, do by nature the things of the Torah, they are a law to themselves even though they do not have the Torah. 15 They show that the work of the Torah is written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts switching between accusing or defending them

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Here you have demonstrated the vast difference between our two religions.

You fail to see that God's only "allowance for sin" is God crushing His own Son precisely because of our sins which He took upon Himself.

You fail to see that God's saving men by taking all of their sins upon Himself and pouring out His unmitigated wrath on Himself is not, as you charge, "turning a blind eye to sin".

It is quite the opposite in fact - just as our two religions are opposites when all is said and done.

First, nowhere did I say that we are not saved by Jesus Christ's death. You are falsely assuming that. I believe we are Initially and Ultimately Saved by Jesus Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension (after Jesus told Mary not to touch Him). I believe Christ paid for the sins of the entire world, but man has to accept that free love gift by faith to be initially saved. Second, only past sin is cleansed (2 Peter 1:9) when a person admits they are a sinner and asks Jesus to forgive them of their sins in response to hearing the Holy Scriptures (Romans 10:13) (John 3:16) (Along with believing the gospel as per 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

The reason why the sacrifice is applied to a person initially is because they acted righteously by asking God for forgiveness. Those who do not act righteously by asking Jesus to forgive them of their sins will not make it. Present and future sin is not automatically paid for. A person has to continue in Christ and allow His good works to flow through their lives by faith in Him and His Word. Planning to sin again is the wrong heart attitude to have because God cannot agree with our thinking that we can sin again. Yes, God can forgive us if we do sin again, but the point is that you cannot have the mindset that you will be a slave to sin in this life with the thinking you are saved no matter what. We are told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. But yes, I believe we are ultimately saved by Christ's sacrifice, as well. For if a believer sins again, do they go out and do a good work to get clean? No, by no means. They confess their sins to Jesus to be forgiven and to be cleansed of all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). However, make no mistake about it; Justification (which is a foundational part of the salvation process) is not in conflict with Sanctification or holy living (Which is also a part of the salvation process).

You cannot be justified before God by keeping the law - whether written on tablets of stone or in our hearts via our conscience.

Faith that produces works (or obedience) brings life;
Meaning, faith without works is dead (See James 2:17).
Obedience without faith does not bring life.
Remember, Romans 9:32 says,
"Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone."

Also, the Pharisees ignored the weightier matters of the Law like justice, love, mercy, and faith (Matthew 23:23) (Luke 11:42).

Outward obedience without faith surely brings death just as much as disobedience; But obedience to God's laws by faith in walking by the Spirit brings life; And it is God who causes us to keep His commands (Ezekiel 36:26-27).

James says we are justified by works (See James 2:24).
This of course would be the "work of faith" (See 1 Thessalonians 1:3).
This of course would be the Lord working in a believer (Philippians 2:13).

But Paul was speaking of being justified by keeping the written Law of Moses because:

#1. It is a Covenant that is no longer binding. Christ nailed to the cross those ordinances that were against us. This would be the ceremonial laws (like the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, the dietary laws, the laws on animal sacrifices, etc.) and the judicial (civil) laws. However, Christ did not nail to the cross God's Eternal Moral Laws (like "Do not murder," "Do not covet," "Do not steal," etc.). God's Eternal Morals existed even before the written Law.

#2. The Jews turned the Law into a distorted system of salvation (Whereby they ignored the weightier matters of the Law like faith, justice, love, and mercy).​

In fact, if we are not justified by any law then this means you are not saved by keeping the law or the command given to us in 1 John 3:23 (cf Acts of the Apostles 16:31).

While obeying God by keeping the law is commendable in many ways - trying to obey in order to achieve salvation is not commendable in any way whatsoever.

Well, this is backwards thinking to what Christ taught. For Jesus said,

"...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

The moment you fail in one area you have failed in all areas. That's why it's so far from true faith in Christ's work at Calvary that it is an entirely different way of achieving salvation than the scriptures present to us.

James was talking about the breaking of the Royal Law, which is to love your neighbor. The context was having respect of persons to believers who were better dressed over those believers who were poor. James essentially says a person breaks the whole law if they were to do that (i.e. to have respect of persons). For it is the Law of love. John says if you hate your brother, you are like a murderer and no eternal life abides in you (1 John 3:15).

Paul says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness, they are proud and they know nothing (See 1 Timothy 6:3-4). James says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble (James 4:6).

To preach a gospel which presents a path to salvation by trying to totally overcome sin in order to be acceptable in God's sight is preaching another gospel altogether from the one delivered to me.

Paul desired to make the Gentiles obedient as a part of fully preaching the gospel.

Romans 15:18-19 says,
18 "For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ has not accomplished through me, in word and deed, to make the Gentiles obedient ----
19 in mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God, so that from Jerusalem and round about to Illyricum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. (NKJV).​

Sanctificaiton of the Spirit (i.e. a process to make a believer live holy) and the belief of the truth is a part of the call of the gospel of salvation.

13 "...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, " (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).​

The righteousness of God is revealed in the gospel of Christ; For it teaches that the just shall live by faith and that the wrath of God is against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who hold the truth in unrighteousness (sin).

Romans 1:16-18
16 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;”​

So as you therefore have received Christ Jesus, so then walk in Him.

Colossians 2:6-7 says,
6 "As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith,as ye have been taught,”​

It may or may not be true that your walk with the Lord is closer than mine and it may or may not be true that my walk with the Lord is closer than yours.

But what is patently clear is that your religion is diametrically opposed to mine.

I realize that we believe very differently.
I am praying that the Scriptures I have shown to you will be sown in your heart and produce good fruit.

Anyways, may the Lord's love shine upon you.
And may you please be well.

Sincerely,

~ Jason.

 

[disciple1]

What did Jesus mean when he said "few will be saved?" There are billions of Christians out there! Christianity is the largest religion in the world! So surely many will be saved? What are we missing? Discuss.

Proverbs chapter 10 verse 12
Love covers all wrongs.

Don't store up money, have a little extra, if you think you might need more get a credit card or two.


Matthew chapter 25 verses 31-46
When the Son of Man comes" in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. he will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me. then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and got visit you? The King will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me. Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.They also will answer, Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you? He will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me. Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Dear Marvin:

I also wanted to say that we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH.

Whatsoever is not of the faith is sin (Romans 14:23).
Sin is not of the faith.
Sin is transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4).
So how can we have grace if we are not living out our faith?
Ephesians 2:8-9 says we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH.

The Bible says there is a work of faith that we do (1 Thessalonians 1:3).

James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17).
James says we are justified by our works (James 2:24).

In other words, you want me to believe that we are saved by grace without faith because you believe that sin (which is not of the faith) can be justified as a part of a believer's life. Granted, I am not saying we cannot be forgiven if we sin. But to think we will always be slaves to our sin in this life when the Bible teaches that we can overcome our sin is not right (See 1 Peter 4:1-2, Galatians 5:24, 2 Corinthians 7:1).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Also, to have an assurance in knowing Christ or being found in Him, 1 John 2:3-4 gives us the answer. We can have an assurance in knowing Christ (Who is our salvation and life - 1 John 5:12) if we find that we are keeping his commandments (1 John 2:3-6).

 

[Marvin Knox]

I realize that we believe very differently. I am praying that the Scriptures I have shown to you will be sown in your heart and produce good fruit.

To reiterate again - no one here has or ever would approve of sin in their life after receiving Christ initially.

I believe that you and I will both do our best to refrain from sin and that we will both confess and receive forgiveness if we fail.

I'm assuming we'll both try our utmost to work out our salvation in all of it's various portions throughout our lives.

The question remains in my mind whether your striving will count as trying to earn the salvation which the Lord paid such a great price for - rather than as faith in what He has done.

I may well be wrong about the Lord keeping me saved forever. But I don't see any warnings against my believing that He will being, as it were, "another gospel".

However I cannot say the same for your belief system.

Just as you see strong warnings about not living an obedient life before the Lord -- I see strong warnings about a person trying to be justified before the Lord by doing so.

It's undoubtedly not the best way to put it. But, seriously, I do wish for a good end for you and your view of the salvation process.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

To reiterate again - no one here has or ever would approve of sin in their life after receiving Christ initially.

No one here ? Where is "here" ?
If you mean on this forum, or in the united states, this is wrong dramatically as people will readily (and have often) confessed.

 

[Marvin Knox]

No one here ? Where is "here" ?
If you mean on this forum, or in the united states, this is wrong dramatically as people will readily (and have often) confessed.

By here I mean in this thread in particular.

I would also say the same for "on this forum". Except that there are actual cults and or other religions and even out and out atheists represented in this "Christian" Forum.

Why they are allowed to post here I don't know. But, because they are, I couldn't be expected to know all they have said - which is pretty far out sometimes.

Having said that:

You say that people here have readily and often confessed that they "approve of sin in their life after receiving Christ initially".

Could you provide such a quote for us?
Thanks!

P.S.
Please don't refer to those who believe they are kept eternally by the sealing and intercessory ministry of the Lord. That is not the same as "approving" of sin and everyone knows it.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You say that people here have readily and often confessed that they "approve of sin in their life after receiving Christ initially".

Could you provide such a quote for us?

When available, yes. I put most of them on ignore a number of months ago.

Watch for ones who say they don't have to obey the commandments. That's often a sure sign that they fell guilty inside, due to conscience, or worse - don't feel guilty at all, and think they are saved.....
Likewise their leaders / on television/ media/ books/ pulpits are telling them the same thing, to their downfall and judgment if they do not repent before they die.

There are many other examples fairly often (probably daily if you really look),
perhaps from those who say "Lord, Lord...." but do not know Him nor do what He says to do. (they find out on judgment day)

It was FUTILE to try to debate with them (2 this week told me to put them on ignore and to not reply to their posts any more or they would 'report' me ---- according to some new rules I think ..... no worries, a lot of them are on ignore already )

 

[Marvin Knox]

When available, yes. I put most of them on ignore a number of months ago.

Watch for ones who say they don't have to obey the commandments. That's often a sure sign that they fell guilty inside, due to conscience, or worse - don't feel guilty at all, and think they are saved.....
Likewise their leaders / on television/ media/ books/ pulpits are telling them the same thing, to their downfall and judgment if they do not repent before they die.

There are many other examples fairly often (probably daily if you really look),
perhaps from those who say "Lord, Lord...." but do not know Him nor do what He says to do. (they find out on judgment day)

It was FUTILE to try to debate with them (2 this week told me to put them on ignore and to not reply to their posts any more or they would 'report' me ---- according to some new rules I think ..... no worries, a lot of them are on ignore already )

For what it's worth - all putting people on ignore accomplishes is that you then have no way of knowing if they are talking about you or something you said. Not sure that's a good thing to do. It seems to me that a better way to do it is to let them post to you and then just not reply if it's just more junk.

When you say, "2 this week told me to put them on ignore and to not reply to their posts any more or they would 'report' me" - it actually speaks volumes to me. That sort of thing doesn't usually happen without good reason.

I think I see now where you are are coming from and I disagree with you. IMO it is likely that you are having trouble with your communications with these people you refer to because you are using what we call "straw man" arguments.

For instance - I can't imagine anyone (particularly leaders such as you refer to) who would tell someone that they didn't need to confess and repent of sins when they happen or suffer consequences either in this life or at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

Likewise - if you are equating believing in the eternal security of believers with "approving sin in their life after receiving Christ initially" - you've pretty much shot down any chance for meaningful dialog by making such a ridiculous and blatantly unfair observation.

When you say "have to obey the commandments" - I'd need more information from you as to what the consequences are in your opinion for failing in keeping a commandment.

If you are one of the ones saying that there is loss of salvation until you confess and repent - then I'll just say that you are wrong about that - even though you are apparently in a large company of people who believe that way.

Until joining this forum - I had no idea how many people who claimed Christ as their Savior actually thought that way.

If I've got you right in lumping your belief system in with people like Jason - I won't be arguing things with you much more here.

 

[lismore]

What did Jesus mean when he said "few will be saved?" There are billions of Christians out there! Christianity is the largest religion in the world! So surely many will be saved? What are we missing? Discuss.

Greetings! A thought shared with me was that while many will attend the church barbeque rather fewer will attend the prayer meeting. How many of the billions are born again? I know people who were baptized as babies and do not now believe in God. God Bless

 

[Marvin Knox]

Greetings! ........... I know people who were baptized as babies and do not now believe in God.

Me too - or at least don't believe God for salvation.

Greetings! A thought shared with me was that while many will attend the church barbeque rather fewer will attend the prayer meeting.

I have to admit that I've pretty much left off going to prayer meetings as such.

But I seldom miss a good church barbecue or potluck.

 

[lismore]

What did Jesus mean when he said "few will be saved?" There are billions of Christians out there! Christianity is the largest religion in the world! So surely many will be saved? What are we missing? Discuss.

There is this passage though:

After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands (Revelation 7:9)

So there will be many but still a minority % of the population as a whole I would say.

God Bless

 

[DarkSoul999]

Narrow is the way. Strait (not "straight") is the gate. Matt 7.14

Some believe it is very narrow. A woman leader at the church Bishop Joseph Garlington grew up in said that in her study only about 7 or 8 people from all of time would actually get into heaven. (not even all of the apostles)

I am not sure how that accounts for the "myriads" (tens of thousands) of observant Jewish believers in Acts 21.20; or the crowd that was beyond number in Rev 7.9.

If Jesus bled on the cross for 7 or 8 people then we have some war heroes who are greater than Jesus!

She ought to be laughed out of the building!