Doctrines of Devils?

[Goatee]

Always best not to post on something that may be beyond your understanding.

 

[amariselle]

Always best not to post on something that may be beyond your understanding.

Incredible.

Please refrain from assuming what is or is not "beyond my understanding."

Insulting my intelligence to prove your point is hardly helpful.

Since it seems you are set on doing so, I will not be responding to your comments further.

God bless.

 

[Goatee]

Incredible.

Please refrain from assuming what is or is not "beyond my understanding."

Insulting my intelligence to prove your point is hardly helpful.

Since it seems you are set on doing so, I will not be responding to your comments further.

God bless.

Sorry, I didn't mean to be insulting in any way. I apologise.

 

[Aseyesee]

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained." 1 Timothy 4:1-6

If the Bible says that forbidding to marry and commanding that people "abstain" from meats are "doctrines of devils", why do so many Christians accept these restrictions (often commanded and imposed by church leadership) as actually from God Himself?

Thoughts?

 

[Phantasman]

Okay, let's try this. Why are you quoting non-Scriptural, non-canonical books? Are you not Sola Scriptura? How can claim to be Sola Scriptura and still quote non canonical books?



How many people were in the Upper Room on the day of Pentecost? My Bible says in Acts 1:15 “And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)” Now there is no list of the names of the people there, is there? (That is, in Scripture) How do you know that Luke was NOT there. show me one place where the Bible--not the non-canonical books, just the Bible--says that Luke was NOT THERE

Just as a question. Don't you realize that Luke WROTE the book of Acts?




I guess things have just rolled along with nothing coming against you, ever. You've never been dumped, you've never lost your temper at anyone. You haven't even torn up a photo of someone you know that you stopped loving, Right?

I have known people that when frustrated, throw and break things. Some of those people are even Calvinists. Does that mean that they have lost their salvation, or were never really saved? You and I both know better. Temper tantrums happen to everbody.

Well, this is Pope Martin having a bad day. I've read about popes who had former popes dug up, dressed in full vestments, sat in a chair so that everyone could see what was going on, and read excommunications over the dead body, then had it burned and the ashes sprinkled on the Tiber.

I've never said that every pope was a lovely man. Some were really rotten guys. But you must remember that the Pope is not infallible, unless, standing in the Seat of Peter, he speaks on matters of faith and morals, with the agreement of the bishops of the Church. He is just as apt to make a mistake in math as the next guy.

BTW, you call yourself a Christian Seeker, and yet you are trying to lecture ME on Christianity. That doesn't work. Not here, not anyplace. Once you have lived MY life, walked in my shoes for a couple of decades, then, maybe, you are allowed to criticize my walk with Christ.

My appologies if you feel I am lecturing (you or anyone)

Okay, let's try this. Why are you quoting non-Scriptural, non-canonical books? Are you not Sola Scriptura? How can claim to be Sola Scriptura and still quote non canonical books?



How many people were in the Upper Room on the day of Pentecost? My Bible says in Acts 1:15 “And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)” Now there is no list of the names of the people there, is there? (That is, in Scripture) How do you know that Luke was NOT there. show me one place where the Bible--not the non-canonical books, just the Bible--says that Luke was NOT THERE

Just as a question. Don't you realize that Luke WROTE the book of Acts?




I guess things have just rolled along with nothing coming against you, ever. You've never been dumped, you've never lost your temper at anyone. You haven't even torn up a photo of someone you know that you stopped loving, Right?

I have known people that when frustrated, throw and break things. Some of those people are even Calvinists. Does that mean that they have lost their salvation, or were never really saved? You and I both know better. Temper tantrums happen to everbody.

Well, this is Pope Martin having a bad day. I've read about popes who had former popes dug up, dressed in full vestments, sat in a chair so that everyone could see what was going on, and read excommunications over the dead body, then had it burned and the ashes sprinkled on the Tiber.

I've never said that every pope was a lovely man. Some were really rotten guys. But you must remember that the Pope is not infallible, unless, standing in the Seat of Peter, he speaks on matters of faith and morals, with the agreement of the bishops of the Church. He is just as apt to make a mistake in math as the next guy.

BTW, you call yourself a Christian Seeker, and yet you are trying to lecture ME on Christianity. That doesn't work. Not here, not anyplace. Once you have lived MY life, walked in my shoes for a couple of decades, then, maybe, you are allowed to criticize my walk with Christ.

My apologies if you feel I am lecturing you (or anyone). I merely debate views with my own views from study and prayer. I know the Orthodox as I was a follower for 25 years.

I do not subscribe to the books gathered by the Catholics as the "word of God". The ideas and words conflict with the Gospel teaching from the Truth (Christ Jesus). I ask questions many don't (or can't) answer. But I know the answer before I ask the question. I want others to question themselves. This leads one to find answers. Not provide answers of others (such as Priests or Creeds).

The Gospel leads to life. I am a seeker of Gospel knowledge only. Every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, which I believe, came only from Jesus Christ.

 

[Phantasman]

Despite my efforts to clarify that this is not a thread about Catholicism in particular, it has turned into one.

I personally am finished addressing posts that are specifically about the Catholic Church. (Which some chose to focus on and bring up in this thread).

I've addressed that specific subject repeatedly now. Although I am not surprised this came up, it is not the intended purpose or point of this thread.

I'm not surprised. The Catholics created the Nicene Creed and the Bible. The forum is based on controversy of that very ideology. I believe most Orthodox Christians come here for one of two reasons. To learn of maybe something they don't have, or to defend what they believe they have.

 

[Noxot]

meat and marriage are symbols speaking of the same thing - the heavenly union and the feast of everlasting joy.

 

[Phantasman]

The Holy Spirit is always referred to as "He" in Scripture.

I have absolutely no idea what strange ideology you have become entangled in. It does sound like some form of goddess worship/the divine feminin.

Scary (and completely contrary to Scripture) also that you would say "Eve's wisdom saved us." It was Eve who was directly tempted by the serpent in the garden and gave the fruit to her husband Adam.

As I said, I do not know what kinds of ideology you're involved in, but you're statements above are very worrisome.

My beliefs should be "troublesome" to the Orthodox. I went through the "disturbance" and am better for it. It opened my eyes. Orthodoxy is hard to break from, kind of like the movie the Matrix. When you see the whole picture, those things clinging to the Gospel message that don't belong, fall by the wayside. Knowledge is freedom.

(2) Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the All."- Gospel of Thomas.

You are trying to mix physical gender with spiritual, which is genderless.

If Jesus had come as a female, would the patriarchs had accepted the Truth? If Jesus said the Holy Spirit was his mother, would the men have accepted it? Patriarchy was so strict, women couldn't even own land.

And since the Bible books date no earlier than 400AD, and was held only by the Catholics in Latin for 800 years, do you believe patriarchs wouldn't translate to their favor?

Latin uses spirit as masculine. Aramaic uses spirit as feminine. Jesus never spoke Latin.

There are some Christian churches (see below) who teach that the Holy Spirit is feminine based on the fact that both feminine nouns and verbs, as well as feminine analogies, are thought to be used by the Bible to describe the Spirit of God in passages such as Genesis 1:1-2, Genesis 2:7, Deut. 32:11-12, Proverbs 1:20, Matthew 11:19, Luke 3:22, and John 3:5-6. (This includes the Eastern Orthodox Church, which continues the traditions of the early church of the Apostles). These are based on the grammatical gender of both the nouns and verbs used by the original authors for the Spirit, as well as maternal analogies used by the prophets and Jesus for the Spirit in the original Bible languages.

There are biblical translations where the pronoun used for the Holy Spirit is masculine, in contrast to the gender of the noun used for spirit in Hebrew and Aramaic.[1] In Aramaic also, the language generally considered to have been spoken by Jesus, the word is feminine. However, in Greek the word (pneuma) is neuter.[1] Most English translations of the New Testament refer to the Holy Spirit as masculine in a number of places where the masculine Greek word "Paraclete" occurs, for "Comforter", most clearly in the Gospel of John, chapters 14 to 16.[24] These texts were particularly significant when Christians were debating whether the New Testament teaches that the Holy Spirit is a fully divine hypostasis, or some kind of created force. However, since Jesus didn't teach the Jewish people in Greek but in Aramaic, which portrays the word "Spirit" as feminine, and since the Greek word for "Spirit" is masculine by contrast, the masculine terminology is likely due to linguistic limitations and inconsistency in translation work

As far as Eve, the gift of the spirit (from the Father) came from the Tree of Knowledge. Adam had never been given a spirit, just a soul. Jesus says that the spirit is what "makes us alive" and through the spirit we "will not taste death" if we follow him. The serpent was correct, the false god proven wrong. The "other" Gospels follow this, as well as the Canon Gospels and Paul.

 

[amariselle]

My beliefs should be "troublesome" to the Orthodox. I went through the "disturbance" and am better for it. It opened my eyes. Orthodoxy is hard to break from, kind of like the movie the Matrix. When you see the whole picture, those things clinging to the Gospel message that don't belong, fall by the wayside. Knowledge is freedom.

(2) Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the All."- Gospel of Thomas.

You are trying to mix physical gender with spiritual, which is genderless.

If Jesus had come as a female, would the patriarchs had accepted the Truth? If Jesus said the Holy Spirit was his mother, would the men have accepted it? Patriarchy was so strict, women couldn't even own land.

And since the Bible books date no earlier than 400AD, and was held only by the Catholics in Latin for 800 years, do you believe patriarchs wouldn't translate to their favor?

Latin uses spirit as masculine. Aramaic uses spirit as feminine. Jesus never spoke Latin.

There are some Christian churches (see below) who teach that the Holy Spirit is feminine based on the fact that both feminine nouns and verbs, as well as feminine analogies, are thought to be used by the Bible to describe the Spirit of God in passages such as Genesis 1:1-2, Genesis 2:7, Deut. 32:11-12, Proverbs 1:20, Matthew 11:19, Luke 3:22, and John 3:5-6. (This includes the Eastern Orthodox Church, which continues the traditions of the early church of the Apostles). These are based on the grammatical gender of both the nouns and verbs used by the original authors for the Spirit, as well as maternal analogies used by the prophets and Jesus for the Spirit in the original Bible languages.

There are biblical translations where the pronoun used for the Holy Spirit is masculine, in contrast to the gender of the noun used for spirit in Hebrew and Aramaic.[1] In Aramaic also, the language generally considered to have been spoken by Jesus, the word is feminine. However, in Greek the word (pneuma) is neuter.[1] Most English translations of the New Testament refer to the Holy Spirit as masculine in a number of places where the masculine Greek word "Paraclete" occurs, for "Comforter", most clearly in the Gospel of John, chapters 14 to 16.[24] These texts were particularly significant when Christians were debating whether the New Testament teaches that the Holy Spirit is a fully divine hypostasis, or some kind of created force. However, since Jesus didn't teach the Jewish people in Greek but in Aramaic, which portrays the word "Spirit" as feminine, and since the Greek word for "Spirit" is masculine by contrast, the masculine terminology is likely due to linguistic limitations and inconsistency in translation work

As far as Eve, the gift of the spirit (from the Father) came from the Tree of Knowledge. Adam had never been given a spirit, just a soul. Jesus says that the spirit is what "makes us alive" and through the spirit we "will not taste death" if we follow him. The serpent was correct, the false god proven wrong. The "other" Gospels follow this, as well as the Canon Gospels and Paul.

The "Gospel of Thomas" is a non-Canonical (Gnostic) "gospel". It is with good reason it is not included in the Bible.

As for the last part of what you wrote, you have seriously deviated from the Biblical Christian faith. The serpent was a deceiver. You are bordering on some form of Luciferianism to even suggest that the serpent is the one that was correct, and that God was wrong to forbid Adam and Eve to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

I think you may also need to re-read the rules of this forum.

 

[Monk Brendan]

The verses that are the subject of this entire thread.

Then list them, please.

I've read the whole thread , every post, and none of the Scriptures that I have read cast any sort of insight on the Calvinist point of view. Maybe I'm stupid, or maybe none of the Catholics in the world are "ELECT," but I'm betting that Calvin has done a great job of brainwashing his followers, and their followers, etc.

 

[amariselle]

Then list them, please.

I've read the whole thread , every post, and none of the Scriptures that I have read cast any sort of insight on the Calvinist point of view. Maybe I'm stupid, or maybe none of the Catholics in the world are "ELECT," but I'm betting that Calvin has done a great job of brainwashing his followers, and their followers, etc.

Since when were we discussing Calvinism and the "Elect"? That is not what this thread is about.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Eve's wisdom saved us. Patriarchy is what will destroy us.

Eve's "wisdom" got us into the problems we are in. If she had not started embroidering the truth, the devil would not have had to foothold.

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

BOOM! All God had told Adam was don't eat from the tree, but Eve embroidered it, saying we can't touch the tree. From there, it was just satan telling the truth. You won't die. If you eat, you will know good from evil. Then God is there with the whistle, "everybody out of the pool! You messed up. Get to the showers and go!"

 

[Monk Brendan]

Since when were we discussing Calvinism and the "Elect"? That is not what this thread is about.

Oh, that's right. We were discussing "doctrines of demons."

But even if you did not mention the Catholics by name, it was very clear to me (and most of the other Catholics participating) that you were casting aspersions on the Catholic Church, of which you know nothing, as you have repeatedly show us in this thread.

 

[Monk Brendan]

I do not subscribe to the books gathered by the Catholics as the "word of God". The ideas and words conflict with the Gospel teaching from the Truth (Christ Jesus). I ask questions many don't (or can't) answer. But I know the answer before I ask the question. I want others to question themselves. This leads one to find answers. Not provide answers of others (such as Priests or Creeds).

If you know the answers before you ask, then you are close minded, to say the least. As far as the Catholic Church goes, it did not gather books and label them "word of God" The various Early Church leaders did that, and once they had decided which of the books had indeed been inspired by the Holy Spirit, they made a list of them.

Now, if you have rejected Orthodoxy, then you don't belong on this forum at all. This is Discussion and Debate (Christians only). What you are doing is wasting my time.

 

[amariselle]

Oh, that's right. We were discussing "doctrines of demons."

But even if you did not mention the Catholics by name, it was very clear to me (and most of the other Catholics participating) that you were casting aspersions on the Catholic Church, of which you know nothing, as you have repeatedly show us in this thread.

Here's the opening post again:

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained." 1 Timothy 4:1-6

If the Bible says that forbidding to marry and commanding that people "abstain" from meats are "doctrines of devils", why do so many Christians accept these restrictions (often commanded and imposed by church leadership) as actually from God Himself?

Thoughts?

You may also want to go read the numerous posts I made clarifying that this is NOT a thread about the Catholic Church.

 

[Monk Brendan]

You may also want to go read the numerous posts I made clarifying that this is NOT a thread about the Catholic Church.

I've read the whole thread, dear. The only church that almost ALL Protestants point their fingers at and say, "they follow doctrines of devils" is the Catholic Church. Not even Mormons, JW's, followers of Mary Baker Eddy, or EGW get the same attention. So easy squeasy. For some reason, they all get a pass, and I can't say a thing about them. But anyone can say anything about Catholics, and not only is it allowed, it is almost always a "featured" post. But if I or anyone else on the fora defend the Church, bad things happen.

(ooops! I'm not supposed to criticize the staff, am I?)

 

[Goatee]

I've read the whole thread, dear. The only church that almost ALL Protestants point their fingers at and say, "they follow doctrines of devils" is the Catholic Church. Not even Mormons, JW's, followers of Mary Baker Eddy, or EGW get the same attention. So easy squeasy. For some reason, they all get a pass, and I can't say a thing about them. But anyone can say anything about Catholics, and not only is it allowed, it is almost always a "featured" post. But if I or anyone else on the fora defend the Church, bad things happen.

(ooops! I'm not supposed to criticize the staff, am I?)

This is how it comes across to me too. I see so much Catholic bashing.

 

[Monk Brendan]

You may also want to go read the numerous posts I made clarifying that this is NOT a thread about the Catholic Church.

Here is the THIRD post of the thread.

I wonder the exact same thing.

In the 11th century, a certain high ranking church official issued a decree requiring all church leaders to be celibate

Abstinence is one of our oldest Christian traditions. From the first century, the day of the crucifixion has been traditionally observed as a day of abstaining from flesh meat (“black fast”) to honor Christ who sacrificed his flesh on a Friday.

Up until 1966 the law of a certain church group prohibited the eating of meat on all Fridays throughout the entire year.

Now, in the 11th century, there were NO Protestant Churches. There were Eastern Christian Churches (of various flavors) But in the west, only ONE, The Roman Catholic Church. So if a Protestant is making a point about a high ranking church official in the 11th century, he is talking about the Roman Catholic Church.

Now, why do you deny that this thread is anti-Catholic when the 3rd post is highly anti-Catholic? And it went downhill from there.

This is how it comes across to me too. I see so much Catholic bashing.

Here is another witness. I am not the only one.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Duplicate Post.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

This is how it comes across to me too. I see so much Catholic bashing.

. I

Perhaps no worries. I am another witness of the doctrines of demons, not being restricted only to the catholic church.

Since everything is supposed to be tested, according to God's Word,
and not believed nor accepted unless it passes the tests (of Scripture),

just lump the whole world in one big basket, and all the religious groups all together, until
they can be tested, one by one, until one or more, if any , emerges clean and right and true to Scripture ,
which is what God's People are supposed to be/do/ stay.....