My YEC Evidence Challenge

Subduction Zone

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And you asked for how atom bombs explode, and he gave you a video of atom bombs exploding. What's your problem?
Well to be honest he asked how hydrogen exploded, but that was a hydrogen bomb.

dad no he screwed up and has too much pride to even admit an error in the smallest of things. Even though he is amazingly wrong about anything to do with the sciences he will never admit that.
 
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Kylie

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God. He said there is no other name under heaven given among men whereby we need to be saved.

And that's God? You know that it comes from the German word Gott, which actually has a pagan origin.

Or is it Jehovah? Or Elohim? You know that Elohim has the same origin as the word Allah? In fact, Allah is just the Arabic word for God.

Name one in the bible and we can talk.

Catholics believe that the Pope is the leader of Christians, based upon the Bible passage Matthew 16:18 "And I tell you that you are Peter, will not overcome it." So Jesus named Peter the first Pope.

I don't think they say Jesus is their God actually.

No, but they still revere him as a prophet. So what? There are lots of differences between the Abrahamic religions, but they are still all worshiping the exact same God, whether you like it or not.

The old testament and Psalms are about Jesus you know. He is the God of the OT also. Gong.

That's your opinion. Unless you are declaring yourself the foremost authority on Christianity, I am under no obligation to accept your claim when there are a ton of people who disagree with you - many of whom know a lot more about Christianity than you do.
 
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dad

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And you asked for how atom bombs explode, and he gave you a video of atom bombs exploding. What's your problem?
In other words, even atoms have energy, like stars, and they are smaller, in case you missed the point.
 
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dad

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And that's God? You know that it comes from the German word Gott, which actually has a pagan origin.

Or is it Jehovah? Or Elohim? You know that Elohim has the same origin as the word Allah? In fact, Allah is just the Arabic word for God.
Jesus' Dad.


Catholics believe that the Pope is the leader of Christians, based upon the Bible passage Matthew 16:18 "And I tell you that you are Peter, will not overcome it." So Jesus named Peter the first Pope.
Jesus was the rock on which the church was founded, and that was NOT the church system!

No, but they still revere him as a prophet. So what?
If He was a mere prophet He was a liar and a fake.
There are lots of differences between the Abrahamic religions, but they are still all worshiping the exact same God, whether you like it or not.
Absurd, Jesus is the God of Abraham. There is no other God and no other name to be saved. Period.


That's your opinion. Unless you are declaring yourself the foremost authority on Christianity, I am under no obligation to accept your claim when there are a ton of people who disagree with you - many of whom know a lot more about Christianity than you do.
No one knows Jesus is not God or that Muslims do not know Jesus as God. Why kid yourself?
 
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Kylie

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In other words, even atoms have energy, like stars, and they are smaller, in case you missed the point.

No they don't! The stars are in a different state and you don't know what they are and you don't know if they have energy or not! Stop thinking you can tell me anything about the stars!
 
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Kylie

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Jesus' Dad.

So God is Jesus, and he is also Jesus' dad. Gotcha.

So God got Mary pregnant with himself?

Jesus was the rock on which the church was founded, and that was NOT the church system!

Lots of people disagree with you.

But, oh, I forgot, you are the highest authority in the world on Christianity, aren't you. So terribly sorry.

If He was a mere prophet He was a liar and a fake.

Dude, I don't care. You are wrong about this. Muslims worship the same God you do. Deal with it.

Absurd, Jesus is the God of Abraham. There is no other God and no other name to be saved. Period.

Since you seem to think that evidence from the Bible is the only thing that matters, show me where Abraham worshiped Jesus specifically.

No one knows Jesus is not God or that Muslims do not know Jesus as God. Why kid yourself?

What in the world are you going on about. You need to learn that your opinion on religion is not the high authority that you seem to think it is. Your opinion just isn't that important to anyone except yourself.
 
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dad

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No they don't! The stars are in a different state and you don't know what they are and you don't know if they have energy or not! Stop thinking you can tell me anything about the stars!
Sarcasm. That's a start.
 
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dad

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So God is Jesus, and he is also Jesus' dad. Gotcha.
The Father Son and Holy Ghost are what God is. Jesus created the world. The Holy Spirit is also called 'His spirit'. Human minds are too small to grasp the fullness of what God is I guess.
So God got Mary pregnant with himself?
See what I mean!?

Lots of people disagree with you.
Long as they do it quietly I guess they are safe. If they raise a peep here I might shed some light on their position.
But, oh, I forgot, you are the highest authority in the world on Christianity, aren't you. So terribly sorry.
Scripture is the highest authority on Christ. If most christians had a familiarity with the word and a good heart, they would be in good shape.
Muslims worship the same God you do.
No. Certainly not. That I can say for sure.


Since you seem to think that evidence from the Bible is the only thing that matters, show me where Abraham worshiped Jesus specifically.
Abraham offered his son over near mount Moriah. God offered His son there also. Jesus said He is the God of the Living, and was there before Abraham. Abraham was a shadow or picture of how God gave His son.

You need to learn that your opinion on religion is not the high authority that you seem to think it is.
I am not religious, and don't even go to church. Why would I want to be some authority on religion?

"
Let’s start with the obvious: Christians believe Jesus is God, but the Quran is so opposed to this belief that it condemns Jesus worshipers to Hell (5.72). For Christians, Jesus is certainly God, and for Muslims Jesus is certainly not God. How can it be said that Christians and Muslims worship the same God? This fact alone is enough to settle the matter, but at the very least, no one should argue as Volf has that “there isn’t any theological justification” for believing Christians and Muslims worship different Gods. There certainly is, and it is the obvious position when we consider the person of Jesus.

Another difference between the Islamic God and the Christian God that is quite personal to me is his Fatherhood. According to Jesus, God is our Father, yet the Quran very specifically denies that Allah is a father (112.1-4). In fact, in 5.18, the Quran tells Muslims to rebuke Jews and Christians for calling God their loving Father because humans are just things that God has created.

The same is the case when we consider the doctrine of the Trinity. Islam roundly condemns worship of the Trinity (5.73), establishing in contrast its own core principle: Tawhid, the absolute oneness of God. Tawhid specifically denies the Trinity, so much so that it is safe to say the doctrine of God in Christianity is antithetical to the doctrine of God in Islam. Not just different but completely opposed to one another.

There is much more to be said about the differences between the Christian God and the Muslim God, but this much can already be said with confidence: the Christian God, both in terms of what he is (Triune) and who he is (Father, Son, and Spirit) is not just different from the Muslim God; He is fundamentally incompatible. According to Islam, worshiping the Christian God is not just wrong; it sends you to Hell. They are not the same God."

Do Muslims and Christians Worship the Same God? | RZIM
 
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dad

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No one claimed that. You asked how. Under conditions of very high temperature and pressure hydrogen fuses. Just like we would find in a star.
In your dreams of what is in a star. You don't know the mass or size or distances for stars. You don't know their origins. You just thought you did. It is just faith based from the start to the end and every step in between.

The idea stars are like the sun and a certain distance and size is the first error. We do not know that. As for the sun, what is actually inside and how it works we don't know. The bible says the sun will go out. Dark. For days. If your theories about what the sun was were correct that could not happen.
 
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Subduction Zone

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In your dreams of what is in a star. You don't know the mass or size or distances for stars. You don't know their origins. You just thought you did. It is just faith based from the start to the end and every step in between.


Wrong again dad, you don't know the mass, size, or distance to stars. Just because you do not know something does not mean that others do not know something. Scientists have supported their claims with evidence that puts them beyond a reasonable doubt. All you can do is to demand that a group of scientifically illiterate people somehow got the start of the universe and our Earth right without any reliable evidence.
 
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dad

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Wrong again dad, you don't know the mass, size, or distance to stars.
You don't. Try to show the cosmic ladder rungs and we'll see.
I don't care if you wish to accept that the far universe is the same and time exists the same and etc, by blind faith. Unlike you I can talk about it. I know what I believe and can defend it.
Scientists have supported their claims with evidence that puts them beyond a reasonable doubt.
Sorry. I know better. Empty indefensible claims have no place here.

All you can do is to demand that a group of scientifically illiterate people somehow got the start of the universe and our Earth right without any reliable evidence.
For atheists, I have no intention of demanding they believe anything. I only ask that their beliefs be supported clearly, and that the poor fairy tale believing folks admit they really do not know at all. This I demand.


For lurkers here is a good example of the fairy tale collage that has masqueraded as science for a long time now.

"
an average-sized star [this is based on so called distances that involve beliefs that time exists homogeneously in all the universe] in our galaxy, the Milky Way, it has the mass [this also is based on same as above] of 2 with 30 zeros after it in kilograms, with 1 kilogram equaling just over 2.2 pounds. That kind of mass results [the kind of mass based on above premises] in a tremendous gravitational force and a colossal amount of gravitational pressure in the core of the sun, to the tune of over 500 billion pounds per square inch. With that kind of pressure the temperature at the core [that kind is not proven or knowable, but based on a belief system only]of the sun exceeds 27 million degrees. There’s even more gravitational pressure and even higher temperatures in more massive stars. [Size and distance and mass wholly based on the unsupportable belief time is the same there]

Because of this tremendous heat, hydrogen atoms in the inner core of stars are zipping along at incredible speeds [all based on the same belief] and slamming into each other with incredible violence. [over great time that has not been observed, the few smashes we see or think we see involve great time also. it makes a difference what size and speed something hitting something else has. Ifa tennis ball smashed into earth, or Mars smashed into earth there is a big difference]] By their very nature, hydrogen atoms tend to be electrically repulsive to each other. They don’t even like to be close. But because the force of these collisions totally overwhelms their atomic independence, they not only bash into each other, they actually fuse together. This is the process of nuclear fusion. It’s like slamming your hands together with such force that they merge, or fuse into one big hand. [yeah right]

Inside the cores of stars, hydrogen atoms are fusing together to form heavier helium atoms. It takes four hydrogen atoms fusing together to form one heavier helium atom, and in the process, energy is produced. That’s the tricky and extremely complicated part of nuclear fusion. It all has to do with Albert Einstein’s famous assertion that energy and mass can be interchanged if you have the right conditions, and those conditions are met in the violent cores of stars. [only in faith based models that take leaps of faith]

The collective radiation from all of these hydrogen atom collisions, in the form of light, heat, gamma rays, and X-rays, slowly makes its way to the outer layer of a star. From there, the radiation travels in all directions from the star at the speed of light, over 186,000 miles per second." [on earth, we see light move in our time zone at that speed. No way to know speeds where stars are, we need distances and etc, which all require time existing there to know]

Sky Watch: Inside the violent core of a star (and our sun) – Twin Cities
 
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Subduction Zone

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You don't. Try to show the cosmic ladder rungs and we'll see.
I don't care if you wish to accept that the far universe is the same and time exists the same and etc, by blind faith. Unlike you I can talk about it. I know what I believe and can defend it.
Sorry. I know better. Empty indefensible claims have no place here.

Gong!! Sorry dad, blind faith is your weakness not mine. And no, you can't defend your beliefs. That is the problem.


For atheists, I have no intention of demanding they believe anything. I only ask that their beliefs be supported clearly, and that the poor fairy tale believing folks admit they really do not know at all. This I demand.

No one is "demanding" that you believe anything. You simple need to be able to support your claims, but then we all now that you can't.

For lurkers here is a good example of the fairy tale collage that has masqueraded as science for a long time now.

"
an average-sized star [this is based on so called distances that involve beliefs that time exists homogeneously in all the universe] in our galaxy, the Milky Way, it has the mass [this also is based on same as above] of 2 with 30 zeros after it in kilograms, with 1 kilogram equaling just over 2.2 pounds. That kind of mass results [the kind of mass based on above premises] in a tremendous gravitational force and a colossal amount of gravitational pressure in the core of the sun, to the tune of over 500 billion pounds per square inch. With that kind of pressure the temperature at the core [that kind is not proven or knowable, but based on a belief system only]of the sun exceeds 27 million degrees. There’s even more gravitational pressure and even higher temperatures in more massive stars. [Size and distance and mass wholly based on the unsupportable belief time is the same there]

Because of this tremendous heat, hydrogen atoms in the inner core of stars are zipping along at incredible speeds [all based on the same belief] and slamming into each other with incredible violence. [over great time that has not been observed, the few smashes we see or think we see involve great time also. it makes a difference what size and speed something hitting something else has. Ifa tennis ball smashed into earth, or Mars smashed into earth there is a big difference]] By their very nature, hydrogen atoms tend to be electrically repulsive to each other. They don’t even like to be close. But because the force of these collisions totally overwhelms their atomic independence, they not only bash into each other, they actually fuse together. This is the process of nuclear fusion. It’s like slamming your hands together with such force that they merge, or fuse into one big hand. [yeah right]

Inside the cores of stars, hydrogen atoms are fusing together to form heavier helium atoms. It takes four hydrogen atoms fusing together to form one heavier helium atom, and in the process, energy is produced. That’s the tricky and extremely complicated part of nuclear fusion. It all has to do with Albert Einstein’s famous assertion that energy and mass can be interchanged if you have the right conditions, and those conditions are met in the violent cores of stars. [only in faith based models that take leaps of faith]

The collective radiation from all of these hydrogen atom collisions, in the form of light, heat, gamma rays, and X-rays, slowly makes its way to the outer layer of a star. From there, the radiation travels in all directions from the star at the speed of light, over 186,000 miles per second." [on earth, we see light move in our time zone at that speed. No way to know speeds where stars are, we need distances and etc, which all require time existing there to know]

Sky Watch: Inside the violent core of a star (and our sun) – Twin Cities

Actually that is a good example of claims that are fully supported by evidence. Totally unlike any of dad's claims. And he just shot himself in the foot so badly that I need to do no more work here.
 
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dad

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Actually that is a good example of claims that are fully supported by evidence. Totally unlike any of dad's claims. And he just shot himself in the foot so badly that I need to do no more work here.
As it stands no one has any handle on whether time exists in the far universe and all claims about stars depend on that. The Standard model depends on that. Nothing is supported by evidence till you deal with it.

If you thought citing a fairy tale summary that offered no support was support, well...toodlelu.
 
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Astrophile

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You don't. Try to show the cosmic ladder rungs and we'll see.
I don't care if you wish to accept that the far universe is the same and time exists the same and etc, by blind faith. Unlike you I can talk about it. I know what I believe and can defend it.
Sorry. I know better. Empty indefensible claims have no place here.

For atheists, I have no intention of demanding they believe anything. I only ask that their beliefs be supported clearly, and that the poor fairy tale believing folks admit they really do not know at all. This I demand.


For lurkers here is a good example of the fairy tale collage that has masqueraded as science for a long time now.

"
an average-sized star [this is based on so called distances that involve beliefs that time exists homogeneously in all the universe] in our galaxy, the Milky Way, it has the mass [this also is based on same as above] of 2 with 30 zeros after it in kilograms, with 1 kilogram equaling just over 2.2 pounds. That kind of mass results [the kind of mass based on above premises] in a tremendous gravitational force and a colossal amount of gravitational pressure in the core of the sun, to the tune of over 500 billion pounds per square inch. With that kind of pressure the temperature at the core [that kind is not proven or knowable, but based on a belief system only]of the sun exceeds 27 million degrees. There’s even more gravitational pressure and even higher temperatures in more massive stars. [Size and distance and mass wholly based on the unsupportable belief time is the same there]

Because of this tremendous heat, hydrogen atoms in the inner core of stars are zipping along at incredible speeds [all based on the same belief] and slamming into each other with incredible violence. [over great time that has not been observed, the few smashes we see or think we see involve great time also. it makes a difference what size and speed something hitting something else has. Ifa tennis ball smashed into earth, or Mars smashed into earth there is a big difference]] By their very nature, hydrogen atoms tend to be electrically repulsive to each other. They don’t even like to be close. But because the force of these collisions totally overwhelms their atomic independence, they not only bash into each other, they actually fuse together. This is the process of nuclear fusion. It’s like slamming your hands together with such force that they merge, or fuse into one big hand. [yeah right]

Inside the cores of stars, hydrogen atoms are fusing together to form heavier helium atoms. It takes four hydrogen atoms fusing together to form one heavier helium atom, and in the process, energy is produced. That’s the tricky and extremely complicated part of nuclear fusion. It all has to do with Albert Einstein’s famous assertion that energy and mass can be interchanged if you have the right conditions, and those conditions are met in the violent cores of stars. [only in faith based models that take leaps of faith]

The collective radiation from all of these hydrogen atom collisions, in the form of light, heat, gamma rays, and X-rays, slowly makes its way to the outer layer of a star. From there, the radiation travels in all directions from the star at the speed of light, over 186,000 miles per second." [on earth, we see light move in our time zone at that speed. No way to know speeds where stars are, we need distances and etc, which all require time existing there to know]

Sky Watch: Inside the violent core of a star (and our sun) – Twin Cities

For me, one of the most appealing arguments for Christianity was the belief in a rational God, a belief that God had created an orderly universe that was obedient to physical laws that were the same everywhere and at all times, and that scientists could use these laws to draw valid conclusions about the universe from Earth-based observations. Using the laws that God had created, scientists could measure the distances of the stars, their surface temperatures and surface gravities, their masses and radii, and even the temperatures and pressures in their cores, and could deduce, from the laws of atomic and nuclear physics, how the stars generated their energy. This, as I say, was an appealing argument, that Christianity, more than any other religion, made it possible to trust the results of scientific research.

Young-earth creationists, on the other hand, and you in particular, appear to live in a nightmare world in which no measurement or calculation can be trusted, and in which even the best-established physical laws can change or be abrogated at a moment's notice. In your world, parallax measurements are impossible, the gas laws that govern the temperature and pressure inside a star do not exist, and the speed of light and the half-lives of radioactive nuclei can change by factors of millions in a few thousand years. How can you live in such a world? How can you believe in, let alone worship, a God who created such a universe, a universe that belongs in the monstrous and fantastic world of Edgar Allan Poe or Grimm's fairy tales. Do you think that scientists, or any rational beings, will believe in this world that you have created?
 
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dmmesdale

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Young-earth creationists, on the other hand, and you in particular, appear to live in a nightmare world in which no measurement or calculation can be trusted, and in which even the best-established physical laws can change or be abrogated at a moment's notice. In your world, parallax measurements are impossible, the gas laws that govern the temperature and pressure inside a star do not exist, and the speed of light and the half-lives of radioactive nuclei can change by factors of millions in a few thousand years. How can you live in such a world? How can you believe in, let alone worship, a God who created such a universe, a universe that belongs in the monstrous and fantastic world of Edgar Allan Poe or Grimm's fairy tales. Do you think that scientists, or any rational beings, will believe in this world that you have created? [/QUOTE] The embolden part is not rational since it is fear based. Scarry things can and do exist and lot of the reaction of people to the presence of God in the Old was based on fear. It scared them to no end.
 
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dad

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For me, one of the most appealing arguments for Christianity was the belief in a rational God, a belief that God had created an orderly universe that was obedient to physical laws that were the same everywhere and at all times, and that scientists could use these laws to draw valid conclusions about the universe from Earth-based observations.
That would make the Scripture wrong though. Why make a god out of some little strawman condition that it must all be the same?

Using the laws that God had created, scientists could measure the distances of the stars, their surface temperatures and surface gravities, their masses and radii, and even the temperatures and pressures in their cores, and could deduce, from the laws of atomic and nuclear physics, how the stars generated their energy. This, as I say, was an appealing argument, that Christianity, more than any other religion, made it possible to trust the results of scientific research.
Is it hard to admit that we don't actually? Maybe it is a lot more interesting that we thought.
Young-earth creationists, on the other hand, and you in particular, appear to live in a nightmare world in which no measurement or calculation can be trusted, and in which even the best-established physical laws can change or be abrogated at a moment's notice.
It can be trusted that God created all things. So what if science had it wrong?
In your world, parallax measurements are impossible, the gas laws that govern the temperature and pressure inside a star do not exist,
A star as big as maybe a basketball? How can we know sizes without knowing time exists? Your whole system is built on assumption after assumption, and no one can deviate from the general premises.

and the speed of light and the half-lives of radioactive nuclei can change by factors of millions in a few thousand years.
Not really. Maybe it was never the way you thought.

How can you live in such a world? How can you believe in, let alone worship, a God who created such a universe, a universe that belongs in the monstrous and fantastic world of Edgar Allan Poe or Grimm's fairy tales. Do you think that scientists, or any rational beings, will believe in this world that you have created?
I am happy the future will be different. I am glad death will be no more. I have no problem knowing Eden was different than today. I am happy lins will eat grass in the millennium. I am happy a moon sized golden city will gracefully come down to earth, and not smash into it as it would if current rules existed then. Etc.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
 
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Subduction Zone

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As it stands no one has any handle on whether time exists in the far universe and all claims about stars depend on that. The Standard model depends on that. Nothing is supported by evidence till you deal with it.

If you thought citing a fairy tale summary that offered no support was support, well...toodlelu.
Once again dad, that is just you.

Just because you do not have a handle on an idea does not mean that everyone has that problem.

And please, we all know who believes in "a fairy tale" here.

If you can get over your fear I will gladly help you to understand the concept of evidence. Then you might not make such gross errors in your responses to others.
 
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Astrophile

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That would make the Scripture wrong though. Why make a god out of some little strawman condition that it must all be the same?

Why would the belief that God had created an orderly universe make the Scripture wrong? Many scientists have carried out their research in the belief that the universe is governed by divinely appointed laws and that they are thinking God's thoughts after Him.

The embolden part is not rational since it is fear based. Scary things can and do exist and lot of the reaction of people to the presence of God in the Old was based on fear. It scared them to no end.
Is it hard to admit that we don't actually? Maybe it is a lot more interesting that we thought.
It can be trusted that God created all things. So what if science had it wrong?
A star as big as maybe a basketball? How can we know sizes without knowing time exists? Your whole system is built on assumption after assumption, and no one can deviate from the general premises.

Not really. Maybe it was never the way you thought.

You and dad are saying that the God that you worship, a God who is good, who cannot lie, who created a very good world and who so loved the world that he gave his Son to save the world, created a capricious and unpredictable universe, a terrifying universe without laws, in which no measurement or calculation can be trusted, and where everything is subject to change at the whim of the creator. Fear is the only rational response to such a universe and such a God.

I am happy the future will be different. I am glad death will be no more. I have no problem knowing Eden was different than today. I am happy lions will eat grass in the millennium. I am happy a moon sized golden city will gracefully come down to earth, and not smash into it as it would if current rules existed then. Etc.

What will happen in the future is not the issue, and you might want to read Revelation chapters 6-20 before you start talking about lions eating grass and about a moon-sized golden city. We have to live in the universe as it is now, and the universe that you appear to believe in would be one in which science is impossible.
 
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