Are women treated unfairly in the Bible?

[JRichard68]

This may not be a debate, but first time poster here and I'm curious on your thoughts. Please feel free to move if need be.

Struggling a lot in my marriage, was getting pastoral counseling through our church. I've always been a Christian, but not much of a Bible reader. Recently I've rectified that. I was honestly shocked at how women were treated in the Bible. And how they are commanded to behave.

I won't get into details except to say during our counseling sessions, I have repeatedly been told to submit, Ephesians 5, yada yada. I have done that. My husband was told to work on some things and he didn't. I showed frustration in a session and was told, "You should be grateful your husband is coming home every night. That he's not with other women."

I spent 2 days after hearing this pouring over every time women were mentioned in the Bible. My takeaway is a complete challenge to my faith. I do not see love for women in the Bible. I see women offered up to be raped, women held as "less than", and told to submit at all times, even when husbands are cruel or unfair. It appears to me that a suffering woman is pleasing to God. So that is my debate question: Is a suffering woman pleasing to God? Is that His desire?

I know I'm late in posting, but I wanted to comment that much of what you might have heard about marriage, the role of women, submission, etc. is a rather skewed view of what's actually taught. If you're being told that a 1st century Christian ethic can be brought forward into the 21st, without a consideration of the culture and environment of that time, then you're probably being led wrong. Let's start with everyone's favorite, Ephesians 5. Vs. 21 gives an explicit command for Christians to "submit to one another out of reverence for Christ". That's the foundation. The word "submit" in vs. 22 actually isn't in the Greek - it's brought forward from vs. 21. So Paul's direction for husbands and wives draws from vs. 21 and his command to submit to one another.

You'll also notice (and some husbands don't) that the instructions for husbands to wives takes up much more space on the page. "Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it". Again - foundation. How do husbands do that?

...husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body.

Now, I don't know about anyone else, but that's a huge responsibility. And the more husbands occupy their mind with how "well" their wives are submitting and following the directions to women, the less they are occupied with their own responsibility. And that's not loving one's wife as Christ loved the church. Christ "gave Himself". He did confront sin, but did it in mercy and forgiveness.

I would suggest a study of women in the bible, and especially their role in the early church. And I would also examine a bit more about the culture at the time these instructions were written. Sometimes they were written to address a specific problem, such as a wife living with an unbeliever, or disruptions in church assemblies. It's also okay to examine the historical understanding of these passages. Get some context other than what you're being told. Invest in a good bible commentary to help understand these things. This is one I use that is excellent. Very straightforward, but full of information that breaks down culture, context, and meaning:

IVP Bible Background Commentary, The: New Testament: Craig S. Keener: 9780830824786: Books - Amazon.ca

Hope this helps!

 

[Kit Sigmon]

I know that God isn't pleased, if He was He wouldn't
of taken on flesh, to redeem us...not just men...women and men.

All of us be sinners in need of a Savior.
None of us asked Him to do that for us, He stepped up and said
I will make a way for mankind to be redeemed...saved.

Yes, the Bible reports of the wickedness that is on the earth and is
still here and is increasing...but glory to God it will not be so forever.
There is coming a day when all this will be over.
No more pain, no more suffering for anybody, no more sin, no more
death, no more devil...the former things will be over/done with.

I know what it is to suffer... I know what is to be treated unfairly,
I know what is to be in a bad marriage, I know what it is to be
poor and grow up in a racist society...I'm a black woman.

I know what it is to be rely upon God to establish me in a better
place when everything be stacked against me because those around
me don't like the color of my skin.

God has shown me love, compassion, He restores my soul when people
and circumstances were overwhelming me so that I couldn't see
straight.
He gave me a hope and a future, when those around me
plotted against me and tried to prevent me from getting better jobs,
I've been set up many times, falsely accused but none of that kept me
from gaining the victory and being able to attain a better job and have
a blessed life and an increased faith in God and abiding in HIs love and
in His Word.

Things in this life are temporary, they don't last forever.
Jesus said that in this world we will have troubles, but take heart He
overcame!
Remember, Jesus suffered greatly in this life too, He wasn't spared.

suffering...the apostles suffered:
1 Corinthians 4:9-16
"For it seems to me that God has displayed us apostles at the end of the procession, like prisoners appointed for death.
We have become a spectacle to the whole world, to angels as well as to men."

We are fools for Christ, but you are wise in Christ.
We are weak, but you are strong.
You are honored, but we are dishonored.

To this very hour we are hungry and thirsty, we are poorly clad, we are
brutally treated, we are homeless.
We work hard with our own hands.
When we are vilified, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it;
when we are slandered, we answer gently.
Up to this moment we have become the scum of the earth,
the refuse of the world.

I am not writing this to shame you, but to warn you as my beloved children.
Even if you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.
Therefore I urge you to imitate me.

 

[dysert]

I'd like to add my two cents to the thread. Although I realize I'm rather late, and the OP may have stopped reading this. And in case it matters, I'm a guy.

The Bible simply records what happened. It does not necessarily endorse what happened. Solomon had hundreds of wives, but nowhere does it say that God was pleased with that. The ancient Israelites lived under kings, but God wasn't pleased with that. Lot offered his daughters, but the Bible doesn't endorse that. Etc.

When we go to the NT, we come across a verse that almost everyone overlooks: Eph. 5:21 -> "submitting to one another in the fear of God." In a marriage relationship, the proper attitude is that we submit to each other. The wife is not the submitter and the husband the overlord. We submit to each other, and furthermore, husbands have the responsibility of loving their wives like Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it. Husbands are to love sacrificially.

To the OP, if you're being abused, get out. There's no excuse for abuse, and the Bible doesn't endorse it. Again, the Bible simple records what happened for better or for worse. It's not always teaching what *should* happen.

I would also suggest that you find another counselor. This one seems to be doing more harm than good. Btw, in case you didn't realize it, counseling will only do any good if both parties are into it. If you drag your husband into a counseling session that he doesn't want to go to, you might was well stay home and save your money.

 

[OzSpen]

This may not be a debate, but first time poster here and I'm curious on your thoughts. Please feel free to move if need be.

Struggling a lot in my marriage, was getting pastoral counseling through our church. I've always been a Christian, but not much of a Bible reader. Recently I've rectified that. I was honestly shocked at how women were treated in the Bible. And how they are commanded to behave.

I won't get into details except to say during our counseling sessions, I have repeatedly been told to submit, Ephesians 5, yada yada. I have done that. My husband was told to work on some things and he didn't. I showed frustration in a session and was told, "You should be grateful your husband is coming home every night. That he's not with other women."

I spent 2 days after hearing this pouring over every time women were mentioned in the Bible. My takeaway is a complete challenge to my faith. I do not see love for women in the Bible. I see women offered up to be raped, women held as "less than", and told to submit at all times, even when husbands are cruel or unfair. It appears to me that a suffering woman is pleasing to God. So that is my debate question: Is a suffering woman pleasing to God? Is that His desire?

justme,

When you were counselled to submit to your husband, what did the pastoral counsellor say to your husband about his responsibility in the marriage?

Eph 5:21-31 (NIV) states:

21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh” (emphasis added).​

The word 'submit' does not appear in v. 22. It is assumed as a continuation from v. 21.

This passage teaches on the responsibilities of believer to believer (submission), wife to husband (submission), and husband to wife (love her as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her).

Would you have any difficulty submitting to your husband who loved you in this way? He would not abuse you in any way - physically, emotionally, verbally, etc. If there is any such abuse, it needs to be corrected through forgiveness and a commitment to change by husband and/or wife.

The portion of the sentence I struggle with most is that latter part of v. 24: 'wives should submit to their husbands in everything'.

'When a believing husband loves his wife in this fashion [as Christ loved the church] obedience from the side of the believing wife will be easy. He will not be abusing her or doing that for which Christ would not be pleased' (Hendriksen, Ephesians, p. 250).​

As a long-term professional counsellor (now retired) as a Christian, for Christian couples I would not deal with Eph 5 from only one side. Submission of the wife is conditional on the husband loving his wife unconditionally (as Christ loved the church).

A wife who is being abused by her husband needs to seek safety from that mistreatment. Women's shelters in my country are designed to provide shelter from abusing husbands. There should be safe houses in churches that could assist these people so that a Christian woman can seek shelter in a house associated with a church other than the one she has been attending.

Oz

 

[LinkH]

This may not be a debate, but first time poster here and I'm curious on your thoughts. Please feel free to move if need be.

Struggling a lot in my marriage, was getting pastoral counseling through our church. I've always been a Christian, but not much of a Bible reader. Recently I've rectified that. I was honestly shocked at how women were treated in the Bible. And how they are commanded to behave.

I won't get into details except to say during our counseling sessions, I have repeatedly been told to submit, Ephesians 5, yada yada. I have done that. My husband was told to work on some things and he didn't. I showed frustration in a session and was told, "You should be grateful your husband is coming home every night. That he's not with other women."

If your husband was sitting right there, that sounds like a very strange comment to make in front of him, as if it is setting him a very low bar, as if it is almost normal to cheat. Of course, I wasn't privy to the conversation or the context.

I spent 2 days after hearing this pouring over every time women were mentioned in the Bible. My takeaway is a complete challenge to my faith. I do not see love for women in the Bible. I see women offered up to be raped, women held as "less than", and told to submit at all times, even when husbands are cruel or unfair. It appears to me that a suffering woman is pleasing to God. So that is my debate question: Is a suffering woman pleasing to God? Is that His desire?

As far as submission goes, Christians are told to submit to governing authorities. They can be cruel and unfair, and there are examples of it. Nebucadnezzer unfairly had the three Hebrews thrown in the fire for not committing idolatry. That doesn't mean that was an example to follow. I can't think of examples of more than a couple of examples of husbands treating wives cruelly.

There was one woman who was offered up to be raped. She either quarrelled with her Levite husband or cheated on him. He went to get her from her father's house, and spent the night in a Benjamite city on the way home. A stranger took them in for the night. The city-dwellers demanded their host send the man out so they could sodomize him. For whatever reason, the Levite thought he should throw his wife/concubine out. Maybe it was because he thought, as a Levite, he had to stay ritually poor. If she'd cheated, maybe he was still bitter about that.

But is this an example to follow? Is it presented that way? He was angry about what happened when the woman was raped to death. He chopped her body up and sent it to different leaders in Israel. But notice in his story, he leaves the part out about throwing her out to the rapists. Maybe he was ashamed of it. I don't think Israelites who read this story would have thought this was the right thing to do.

In the case of Lot offering his daughters, this could have been some kind of offer that wouldn't have been taken seriously, like in Abraham's negotiations with a Hittite who offered him the land for free. But one was supposed to protect guests, possibly over ones own household. He did not give his daughters to the crowd.

The theme of suffering that is pleasing God is a much more common than women suffering that pleases God. I can't find any women who were crucified on a cross in the Bible. I don't read about any women being sawed in two for prophesying unpopular messages. Lots of bad stuff happened to men.

The accounts of Christ dying on the cross don't mean it is acceptable to crucify innocent people on crosses. The Levite and his concubine passage isn't there to teach men to give their women up to be raped, either.

The Bible does tell wives to submit to their husbands. The Bible also tells wives to 'reverence' their husbands. The word there could be translated 'fear' and is used in reference to the fear of the Lord. You should treat your husband with respect. But what are men supposed to do? The Bible tells men to love their wives as Christ loved the church. Jesus died for the church. That's a pretty big responsibility as well.

 

[GirdYourLoins]

As a husband I can say that what OzSpen said is correct. The wife is called to submit to the husband but the husband is also called to love the wife as Christ loved the Church and as their own body. If a husband is doing this he would not be abusing her.

There are a couple of other points i want to make about the depiction of women in the Bible. The first is that a lot of what people see as being treated unfairly is in fact the opposite. As with the scripture on "an eye for an eye" it is a limitation where the treatment is being limited. In a fallen world where women were being treated poorly, God gave consequences to that. The OP mentioned women being offered for rape, but God gave consequences to that. I cant remember specific verses atm, but I am sure He said that if a man rapes a woman he should take her as his wife. He was saying that if a man did this despicable thing he must take responsibility for it. It was not saying it was ok to do it, but was a limitation to say he couldnt just walk away from her. IN the same way, culturally, if someone lost an eye they would kill the person who did it. God said they shouldn't go any further than like for like, its a limitation.

Then in the New Testament God took it further. He commanded that men should love their wives. My understanding of the biblical use of the word love is more than just a gooey feeling, its a choice about how to treat that person, hence love your neighbour as yourself is fairly easy as its a choice to treat them as you would yourself. In the same way, when it says a husband should love their wife it means he should treat her correctly, as he would want to be treated himself. There is also another aspect to it, the man is responsible for the families spiritually. This is something often taken out of modern marriages, especially if the husband isnt saved.

Finally, God created men and women differently and we have different roles in the family. This needs to be understood by both sides and allow the man to be a man and the woman to be a woman. The husband and wife are different but equal in a marriage. Modern society tries to say that women are better than men in some aspects such as being more loving and caring but equal to men in every other way. This twisting of the roles of men and women is demeaning to men (by saying women are more loving but men are not better at anything) and in my opinion causes a lot of the problems in marriages these days.

In order for Christian marriage to work both sides need to understand their role and act in accordance with scripture.

 

[toLiJC]

This may not be a debate, but first time poster here and I'm curious on your thoughts. Please feel free to move if need be.

Struggling a lot in my marriage, was getting pastoral counseling through our church. I've always been a Christian, but not much of a Bible reader. Recently I've rectified that. I was honestly shocked at how women were treated in the Bible. And how they are commanded to behave.

I won't get into details except to say during our counseling sessions, I have repeatedly been told to submit, Ephesians 5, yada yada. I have done that. My husband was told to work on some things and he didn't. I showed frustration in a session and was told, "You should be grateful your husband is coming home every night. That he's not with other women."

I spent 2 days after hearing this pouring over every time women were mentioned in the Bible. My takeaway is a complete challenge to my faith. I do not see love for women in the Bible. I see women offered up to be raped, women held as "less than", and told to submit at all times, even when husbands are cruel or unfair. It appears to me that a suffering woman is pleasing to God. So that is my debate question: Is a suffering woman pleasing to God? Is that His desire?

both men and women have been treated unfairly, men have been betrayed to become and be arrogant and aggressive instead of being true men, women have been betrayed to bear the mark of being gullible, tempting, misleading and awkward instead of being prudent and helpful, and the system of spiritual lawlessness/wickedness is precisely the one that has caused this, manifesting in the form of ostensibly sacred religions - billions of people have been betrayed to be affected/possessed by demons/devilish spirits, may the true One free/deliver people from evil

Blessings

 

[CrystalDragon]

I disagree.

Exactly why? I'm curious.

 

[CrystalDragon]

I'd like to add my two cents to the thread. Although I realize I'm rather late, and the OP may have stopped reading this. And in case it matters, I'm a guy.

The Bible simply records what happened. It does not necessarily endorse what happened. Solomon had hundreds of wives, but nowhere does it say that God was pleased with that. The ancient Israelites lived under kings, but God wasn't pleased with that. Lot offered his daughters, but the Bible doesn't endorse that. Etc.

When we go to the NT, we come across a verse that almost everyone overlooks: Eph. 5:21 -> "submitting to one another in the fear of God." In a marriage relationship, the proper attitude is that we submit to each other. The wife is not the submitter and the husband the overlord. We submit to each other, and furthermore, husbands have the responsibility of loving their wives like Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it. Husbands are to love sacrificially.

To the OP, if you're being abused, get out. There's no excuse for abuse, and the Bible doesn't endorse it. Again, the Bible simple records what happened for better or for worse. It's not always teaching what *should* happen.

I would also suggest that you find another counselor. This one seems to be doing more harm than good. Btw, in case you didn't realize it, counseling will only do any good if both parties are into it. If you drag your husband into a counseling session that he doesn't want to go to, you might was well stay home and save your money.

Regarding "it does not necessarily endorse what happened", Numbers 31 states that Moses claimed to be speaking for God and said for the Israelites to kill all the men and all the women who had slept with a man, but to keep the virgin women for themselves. Sounds explicitly like rape to me.

So either God did endorse such things and explicitly command it. Or Moses lied that God said that but God gave no indication that Moses was lying.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

only if you're a feminist seeking autonomous power and supreme authority.

outside of that, the scriptures place great value on women and demands that a man lay down his very life for her benefit.

 

[HeLeadethMe]

I'm sorry that you are dealing with marriage issues. I know that's really hard.

One thing about the Bible...God doesn't pull any punches. It is told how it happened. Lot offered up his daughters not because it was pleasing to God, but rather it was because he had grown that corrupt living in Sodom. It is not just suffering/exploited women who are mentioned in the Bible. Some men who died for the sake of the the Gospel: Stephen, James, Antipas, John the Baptist, Abel (who was the first, killed because his sacrifice was pleasing to God and Cain's was not accepted), and so many of the Old Testament prophets were mistreated and killed.

There are also women of power and women of honor mentioned in the Bible. Deborah the judge, Anna the prophetess, Esther, Ruth, Mary, the mother of Jesus, Mary Magdalene, Sarah, Hannah, The 5 daughters of Zelophead, Priscilla, Miriam, who was also a prophetess...and there are more!

I think what it boils down to is trust. Trust Him no matter what it looks like.

As far as submission goes, it doesn't mean you have to be anyone's doormat. It doesn't mean you don't have a voice. Saving a marriages takes both of you. If your husband isn't willing to do his part, it certainly makes saving the marriage more difficult.

Can I ask whether you have any biblical reference for saying that Lot was corrupt......the only one that I'm aware of is where it speaks of Lot being vexed in his righteous soul because of the depravity, not being influenced by it..........it is because of this that he attracted the favour of God in rescuing he and his family out of Sodom when time came to judge it. If he had been corrupted by living in Sodom, he would have been judged with them.

 

[Albion]

Struggling a lot in my marriage, was getting pastoral counseling through our church. I've always been a Christian, but not much of a Bible reader. Recently I've rectified that. I was honestly shocked at how women were treated in the Bible. And how they are commanded to behave.

I won't get into details except to say during our counseling sessions, I have repeatedly been told to submit, Ephesians 5, yada yada. I have done that. My husband was told to work on some things and he didn't. I showed frustration in a session and was told, "You should be grateful your husband is coming home every night. That he's not with other women."

I am inclined to disagree about women being treated unfairly in the Bible, but the counselor was badly misinformed about the Bible's teaching on that submission matter.

 

[Truthfrees]

This may not be a debate, but first time poster here and I'm curious on your thoughts. Please feel free to move if need be.

Struggling a lot in my marriage, was getting pastoral counseling through our church. I've always been a Christian, but not much of a Bible reader. Recently I've rectified that. I was honestly shocked at how women were treated in the Bible. And how they are commanded to behave.

I won't get into details except to say during our counseling sessions, I have repeatedly been told to submit, Ephesians 5, yada yada. I have done that. My husband was told to work on some things and he didn't. I showed frustration in a session and was told, "You should be grateful your husband is coming home every night. That he's not with other women."

I spent 2 days after hearing this pouring over every time women were mentioned in the Bible. My takeaway is a complete challenge to my faith. I do not see love for women in the Bible. I see women offered up to be raped, women held as "less than", and told to submit at all times, even when husbands are cruel or unfair. It appears to me that a suffering woman is pleasing to God. So that is my debate question: Is a suffering woman pleasing to God? Is that His desire?

no for sure not

the mistreatment of women was done by men, not God

God/Jesus/the Holy Spirit have never mistreated a woman

look at how Jesus treated women - always with respect/care

Jesus is the exact representation of God : Hebrews 1:3, Colossians 1:15

look to Jesus to find out how God feels about women

SUBMIT
1. equally to each other - Ephesians 5:21
2. wives submit and husbands sacrificially love - Ephesians 5:25-29

men are to act toward their wives as Jesus acted toward the church - He gave His life to save the church

1 Timothy 5:8 says that a man who does not look after his family is worse than an unbeliever

if a husband is mistreating his wife and children he is not acting like a believer and is certainly not acting like Christ

what can you do about that?

pray and find out what God says to you TRUSTING that God's command is for the husband to love you like Christ loved the church

never think God says/allows for men to mistreat their wives/children

there are a lot of hard to understand scriptures so that is why looking at how Jesus acted/spoke is the best way to interpret scripture/God's intent/will

praying for you my dear sister

 

[Truthfrees]

Can I ask whether you have any biblical reference for saying that Lot was corrupt......the only one that I'm aware of is where it speaks of Lot being vexed in his righteous soul because of the depravity, not being influenced by it..........it is because of this that he attracted the favour of God in rescuing he and his family out of Sodom when time came to judge it. If he had been corrupted by living in Sodom, he would have been judged with them.

the fact that Lot chose to live in a wicked city is proof that it didn't vex him enough to stay far away from evil

if he had a purely righteous soul, he would have moved to a righteous city

why would the bible say Lot had a righteous soul?

was it because compared to the wicked people in Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot was righteous?

was it because as Jesus said to His disciples "your spirit is willing but you flesh is weak" meaning Lot's flesh was not righteous even if his soul was?

imo, something was wrong with Lot in some way for him to choose to live in such a wicked city

he KNEW it was wicked because he warned the angels/strangers to NOT stay outside overnight

Lot knew they would come to harm if he didn't take them into his house

in any case, choosing to offer his daughters to the mob was not a righteous thing to do

if he loved his daughters he would have offered himself to the mob, just as Jesus offered Himself for us

even non-christian firemen and soldiers risk their lives to save others

so there is no excuse for any man to save himself at the expense of his wife or children

 

[Adstar]

I have big issues with the Old Testament. Lot offering the raping of his daughter? God allowing the soldiers to take the young women (I think we know what for).

It also does not scream of love to me. If God wants everyone, why does He want to harm someone? It does not make sense to my brain, as simple as it may be.

Lot was a human being who had faults.. Lot was not God and God never praised Lot for offering his daughters to be raped... Indeed the Angels who came to Lot prevented it from happening and struck the men with blindness to prevent them from breaking into Lots house...

Also do you a scriptural reference for God allowing the soilders to take the young woman ?

 

[Truthfrees]

Regarding "it does not necessarily endorse what happened", Numbers 31 states that Moses claimed to be speaking for God and said for the Israelites to kill all the men and all the women who had slept with a man, but to keep the virgin women for themselves. Sounds explicitly like rape to me.

So either God did endorse such things and explicitly command it. Or Moses lied that God said that but God gave no indication that Moses was lying.

you need to read further to see that the captured virgins were to be taken as wives - not sex slaves

and as a wife they had rights equal to any other woman

Deuteronomy 21:10- Deuteronomy 25:19

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

This may not be a debate, but first time poster here and I'm curious on your thoughts. Please feel free to move if need be.

Struggling a lot in my marriage, was getting pastoral counseling through our church. I've always been a Christian, but not much of a Bible reader. Recently I've rectified that. I was honestly shocked at how women were treated in the Bible. And how they are commanded to behave.

I won't get into details except to say during our counseling sessions, I have repeatedly been told to submit, Ephesians 5, yada yada. I have done that. My husband was told to work on some things and he didn't. I showed frustration in a session and was told, "You should be grateful your husband is coming home every night. That he's not with other women."

I spent 2 days after hearing this pouring over every time women were mentioned in the Bible. My takeaway is a complete challenge to my faith. I do not see love for women in the Bible. I see women offered up to be raped, women held as "less than", and told to submit at all times, even when husbands are cruel or unfair. It appears to me that a suffering woman is pleasing to God. So that is my debate question: Is a suffering woman pleasing to God? Is that His desire?

I once struggled with this very thing. And I began to dig into scripture on what God required of me to walk, truly, as a godly wife. It is something that God must reveal to us and once we seek and find that Truth, amazing things happen...by the grace of God. So many times, we THINK we are doing it God's way, but until HE reveals it in LIGHT it can bring us much suffering...and suffering in scripture was not just for women...the whole of Israel suffered many things...even Jesus learned obedience by what He suffered...and ALL things work together for good...and if we learn by our sufferings...mourning is turned to joy...

The first thing that the LORD cleared up for me was "household of God' and HIS order...which is God, Christ, husband then wife. Our covering of our head...and coming into alignment with God's plan in honouring our husband...which comes down to truly honouring God's ways. A great example in the Old Testament is the story of Abigail and Nabal in 1 Samuel 25. She was a godly wife and Nabal was a tyrant.

We do not have the power to change another person. We do have the onus of finding out what God's ways are and walk in them. When we come into this alignment, there is the promise of peace with our enemies (and HIS peace passeth all understanding of the human mind...)and that came to be an amazing truth to grab hold of and things within my home changed. For God promises many things by His grace when we find HIS will and walk in it...like the godly wife might save her unbelieving husband without SAYING A WORD...but by her actions (according to God's way)..."Blessed is the peacemaker..."

My unbelieving/atheist husband is now a believer...and I never preached a word...but God revealed Himself to my husband...after I learned The Way I was to walk according to the Lord, a godly wife...by the power of Christ.

Seek HIS way and HE will provide the power/grace to walk in it, thereby bringing amazing peace to your household.

 

[HeLeadethMe]

This really spoke to me. Really, truly. I appreciate all of you so much. I am going to watch the suggested videos and books. It is a difficult time, but I can feel the love here, and I thank you for it!!! A few of you said some things that really spoke to me. I'm still learning how to ise this forum. I yrie2d to pm a few of you to say thank you, but I couldn't figure it out *hides head in shame* It is so hard to admit faith is faltering. I mean, I believe God is real...but it has been eye opening for me lately and I'm trying to deal with that. Much love, justme

It really is an encouragement to know that we are all given a cross to carry in some form or other in following Jesus, for the perfecting of our faith.......like Peter, whose faith was also tried and Jesus prayed for his faith not to fail.......and who later wrote to be not surprised at the painful trial......this is normal for believers......the Lord chastising who He LOVES as sons. So maybe read 1 and 2 Peter for encouragement too. Most churches have lost so many precious truths of the gospel, you probably won't find much help in churches these days, sadly, sister. But keep looking to Jesus, get your roots down deep in HIM....He is our faithful Shepherd, leading and guiding us through the dangers, toils and snares.......He is the anchor of our faith truly. The Lord bless and keep you.

 

[Zoii]

Zoii, is this the same Jack Schaap that was accused of the following? If so, I'd be questioning just how much I'd be listening to his......*ahem*....preaching about men's leadership over women. And I'm guessing that in this instance....we can say God "did" something about it, one way or another.

Former Pastor Jack Schaap Blames Affair With Teen on Personal Problems

Jack Schaap Sentenced: Indiana Pastor Gets 12 Years For Sexual Relationship With Teen Parishioner | HuffPost

Jack Schaap wants sentence overturned

Yes he is and I agree... my point is he using bible quotes to illustrate his dispicable view of women... that you can quote the bible to demonstrate such abominable view of women is exactly my point.... and yes he was convicted of paedophilia but he had a very large following of people who agreed with his views. And I can post many other pastors who say the same thing... all based on bible quotes

 

[Archivist]

If a counselor tells you thank you should be thankful that your husband comes home to you every night, that is a sign that you need to find a new counselor. The one you have is just plain wrong. Your husband married you and promised to forsake all others. He is supposed to come home to you every night.

My girlfriend and I are equals in our relationship. Neither of us is in charge. We discuss matters and compromise when we disagree. Neither of us is the boss.

If you are in an abusive relationship get out. No man has any right to abuse his wife.

Do not use Lot or Moses or David as examples of how men are to behave towards women. Look to Jesus.