Are women treated unfairly in the Bible?

[Justmeoverhere]

This may not be a debate, but first time poster here and I'm curious on your thoughts. Please feel free to move if need be.

Struggling a lot in my marriage, was getting pastoral counseling through our church. I've always been a Christian, but not much of a Bible reader. Recently I've rectified that. I was honestly shocked at how women were treated in the Bible. And how they are commanded to behave.

I won't get into details except to say during our counseling sessions, I have repeatedly been told to submit, Ephesians 5, yada yada. I have done that. My husband was told to work on some things and he didn't. I showed frustration in a session and was told, "You should be grateful your husband is coming home every night. That he's not with other women."

I spent 2 days after hearing this pouring over every time women were mentioned in the Bible. My takeaway is a complete challenge to my faith. I do not see love for women in the Bible. I see women offered up to be raped, women held as "less than", and told to submit at all times, even when husbands are cruel or unfair. It appears to me that a suffering woman is pleasing to God. So that is my debate question: Is a suffering woman pleasing to God? Is that His desire?

 

[brinny]

This may not be a debate, but first time poster here and I'm curious on your thoughts. Please feel free to move if need be.

Struggling a lot in my marriage, was getting pastoral counseling through our church. I've always been a Christian, but not much of a Bible reader. Recently I've rectified that. I was honestly shocked at how women were treated in the Bible. And how they are commanded to behave.

I won't get into details except to say during our counseling sessions, I have repeatedly been told to submit, Ephesians 5, yada yada. I have done that. My husband was told to work on some things and he didn't. I showed frustration in a session and was told, "You should be grateful your husband is coming home every night. That he's not with other women."

I spent 2 days after hearing this pouring over every time women were mentioned in the Bible. My takeaway is a complete challenge to my faith. I do not see love for women in the Bible. I see women offered up to be raped, women held as "less than", and told to submit at all times, even when husbands are cruel or unfair. It appears to me that a suffering woman is pleasing to God. So that is my debate question: Is a suffering woman pleasing to God? Is that His desire?

I would encourage you to keep delving, sister. There's women throughout the Bible, for instance Deborah, who was a judge, and others who were highly respected and were leaders. Reading about Deborah might be a good start.

Welcome to CF.

 

[Zoii]

Ive read the same passages and to me they are from an old world and totally out of touch and unacceptable. If this is how marriage is suppose supposed to be id gladly be single and have my children minus the guy.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I was honestly shocked at how women were treated in the Bible. And how they are commanded to behave.

You don't have to do what YHWH (SOVEREIGN PERFECT CREATOR)
says to do.
YHWH in His Wisdom put in His Word what happens to men, women, and children
if they do what He says,
and if they don't.

Most men, women, and children never care for God's Word, and are never saved.

 

[CrystalDragon]

This may not be a debate, but first time poster here and I'm curious on your thoughts. Please feel free to move if need be.

Struggling a lot in my marriage, was getting pastoral counseling through our church. I've always been a Christian, but not much of a Bible reader. Recently I've rectified that. I was honestly shocked at how women were treated in the Bible. And how they are commanded to behave.

I won't get into details except to say during our counseling sessions, I have repeatedly been told to submit, Ephesians 5, yada yada. I have done that. My husband was told to work on some things and he didn't. I showed frustration in a session and was told, "You should be grateful your husband is coming home every night. That he's not with other women."

I spent 2 days after hearing this pouring over every time women were mentioned in the Bible. My takeaway is a complete challenge to my faith. I do not see love for women in the Bible. I see women offered up to be raped, women held as "less than", and told to submit at all times, even when husbands are cruel or unfair. It appears to me that a suffering woman is pleasing to God. So that is my debate question: Is a suffering woman pleasing to God? Is that His desire?

That's one of the many reasons I doubt the Bible. It doesn't treat women as we'd expect from an all-loving God. But perfectly what we'd expect from a tribal, strictly patriarchal society who saw women as inferior.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Is a suffering woman pleasing to God? Is that His desire?

Greetings, JustMe, and welcome to our Forum.

I feel your pain on this, but let me first answer by telling you that our God very much loves those who are wiling to suffer for His sake, no matter who they are. And when it comes to those faithful women of God who have remained obedient in their marriages to less then honorable men, women who have devoted themselves to prayer and holiness in the sight of God, many will be surprised about just how many of them are seated on thrones in eternity, and rule over the entire body of Christ forever because they proved themselves to be the most faithful.

That having been said, be encouraged. No, women are NOT to be doormats, they are to be honored. No, they are not to be seen as second class believers, and no a married Christian woman is not to simply be grateful that her husband is not sleeping around. That's quite frankly so disgusting that I have a hard time believing they would have told you that.

The issue of women in the Bible is an extremely lengthy one, and I couldn't answer those questions unless you asked about a specific passage. But if you and your husband must go to counsellors, pray God provides you with someone who is worth hearing, and doesn't make excuses for sin and ignorance.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

This may not be a debate, but first time poster here and I'm curious on your thoughts. Please feel free to move if need be.

Struggling a lot in my marriage, was getting pastoral counseling through our church. I've always been a Christian, but not much of a Bible reader. Recently I've rectified that. I was honestly shocked at how women were treated in the Bible. And how they are commanded to behave.

I won't get into details except to say during our counseling sessions, I have repeatedly been told to submit, Ephesians 5, yada yada. I have done that. My husband was told to work on some things and he didn't. I showed frustration in a session and was told, "You should be grateful your husband is coming home every night. That he's not with other women."

I spent 2 days after hearing this pouring over every time women were mentioned in the Bible. My takeaway is a complete challenge to my faith. I do not see love for women in the Bible. I see women offered up to be raped, women held as "less than", and told to submit at all times, even when husbands are cruel or unfair. It appears to me that a suffering woman is pleasing to God. So that is my debate question: Is a suffering woman pleasing to God? Is that His desire?

Hi Justmeoverhere,

I can imagine this must be frustrating for you. Especially, when men in a local church try to upend your value and position as a woman standing before God. Before you get to the point that you want to crumple it all up and slam dunk it in the trash-bin, I'd like to suggest that you do some studying that may give you a better, yet still biblical place to stand (and without at the same time going to the other extreme of 2nd Wave or 3rd Wave Feminist liberalism).

There are many books out there you can choose to study which challenge the deficiencies in theology that some churches hold pertaining to women's status in marriage, home and church. So, it's up to you to find and study these. But if there is one book I would recommend as an initial read, it is the following:

I Suffer Not A Woman: Rethinking 1 Timothy 2:11-15 in Light of Ancient Evidence - by Richard Clark Kroeger & Catherine Clark Kroeger.

Also, here is a website supported by these same scholars (it even has a 'bookstore' section for further scholarly study, as well as some articles to read):
Home | CBE International [Christians for Biblical Equality]

I hope this helps.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[2PhiloVoid]

This may not be a debate, but first time poster here and I'm curious on your thoughts. Please feel free to move if need be.

Struggling a lot in my marriage, was getting pastoral counseling through our church. I've always been a Christian, but not much of a Bible reader. Recently I've rectified that. I was honestly shocked at how women were treated in the Bible. And how they are commanded to behave.

I won't get into details except to say during our counseling sessions, I have repeatedly been told to submit, Ephesians 5, yada yada. I have done that. My husband was told to work on some things and he didn't. I showed frustration in a session and was told, "You should be grateful your husband is coming home every night. That he's not with other women."

I spent 2 days after hearing this pouring over every time women were mentioned in the Bible. My takeaway is a complete challenge to my faith. I do not see love for women in the Bible. I see women offered up to be raped, women held as "less than", and told to submit at all times, even when husbands are cruel or unfair. It appears to me that a suffering woman is pleasing to God. So that is my debate question: Is a suffering woman pleasing to God? Is that His desire?

...and the answer to your question(s) is: no, the suffering of women at the hands of men is not pleasing to God, nor is it His desire. We can see this in the care that Jesus took to include women as active participants in His ministry when He began to set up the Kingdom; we even see some of this in the Old Testament in that God used faithful women like Deborah to lead the nation of Israel out of oppression from other peoples.

This is a short answer, I know. But, it is an initial thought to spark your thinking and your power in Christ to prevent men--even 'Christian' men from subjugating you. It's one thing to be a woman of Christ and to fulfill a chosen role to further the Kingdom, further your family, your career, your place as mother and wife, but it is altogether another thing to be subjected to the inconsistencies and oppression of bad theology that some men make use of.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[Justmeoverhere]

I would encourage you to keep delving, sister. There's women throughout the Bible, for instance Deborah, who was a judge, and others who were highly respected and were leaders. Reading about Deborah might be a good start.

Welcome to CF.

Hello! I'm not saying there's not women in the Bible. They are there. The ratio is a little off. I just don't care for this example because when you bring up the multitudes of Bible passages that talk about the treatment of women, people say, "Oh! But what about those 3 or 4 women (okay, maybe a dozen) in the Bible? They had honor! They had the ear of men. They were powerful." Well... good for those few women. They were obviously born in the right families, in the right places, at the right times to be given the "rights" that they were. I think it's reading too much into the Bible to say, "But...but...Deborah, and Mary, and Esther." If a few women born years (centuries) apart, have some impact, I'm not surprised.

My feelings lately are really challenging my faith and making me question if I want a relationship to a Creator who doesn't seem to care about me, as an entire gender. A Creator that prefers I suffer.

 

[Justmeoverhere]

Ive read the same passages and to me they are from an old world and totally out of touch and unacceptable. If this is how marriage is suppose supposed to be id gladly be single and have my children minus the guy.

This is where I struggle, because the common belief is that the Bible and God is unchanging. So He wants this for women?

 

[brinny]

Hello! I'm not saying there's not women in the Bible. They are there. The ratio is a little off. I just don't care for this example because when you bring up the multitudes of Bible passages that talk about the treatment of women, people say, "Oh! But what about those 3 or 4 women (okay, maybe a dozen) in the Bible? They had honor! They had the ear of men. They were powerful." Well... good for those few women. They were obviously born in the right families, in the right places, at the right times to be given the "rights" that they were. I think it's reading too much into the Bible to say, "But...but...Deborah, and Mary, and Esther." If a few women born years (centuries) apart, have some impact, I'm not surprised.

My feelings lately are really challenging my faith and making me question if I want a relationship to a Creator who doesn't seem to care about me, as an entire gender. A Creator that prefers I suffer.

Perhaps i could ask you what you read about how Jesus related to women, if you don't mind, sister?

 

[CrystalDragon]

Hello! I'm not saying there's not women in the Bible. They are there. The ratio is a little off. I just don't care for this example because when you bring up the multitudes of Bible passages that talk about the treatment of women, people say, "Oh! But what about those 3 or 4 women (okay, maybe a dozen) in the Bible? They had honor! They had the ear of men. They were powerful." Well... good for those few women. They were obviously born in the right families, in the right places, at the right times to be given the "rights" that they were. I think it's reading too much into the Bible to say, "But...but...Deborah, and Mary, and Esther." If a few women born years (centuries) apart, have some impact, I'm not surprised.

My feelings lately are really challenging my faith and making me question if I want a relationship to a Creator who doesn't seem to care about me, as an entire gender. A Creator that prefers I suffer.

I never thought about it that way, but that only further emphasizes my doubts.

 

[Justmeoverhere]

You don't have to do what YHWH (SOVEREIGN PERFECT CREATOR)
says to do.
YHWH in His Wisdom put in His Word what happens to men, women, and children
if they do what He says,
and if they don't.

Most men, women, and children never care for God's Word, and are never saved.

I agree but don't understand the concept behind it. Basically, I don't understand God's reasoning and it seems women suffer and He is perfectly fine with that.

You mention YHWH and following what He says. So if I follow what He says, I am not necessarily blessed. It is dependent on what my husband does. And YHWH asks that the wife, if in a marriage that she is unhappy in or the husband is not doing his part (to put it in today's terms), the wife should basically suck it up. Be quiet, be submissive, be wonderful in all her actions so that she may turn the husband. This may never actually happen...which brings me back to the whole suffering of wives/women.

 

[Justmeoverhere]

That's one of the many reasons I doubt the Bible. It doesn't treat women as we'd expect from an all-loving God. But perfectly what we'd expect from a tribal, strictly patriarchal society who saw women as inferior.

I have big issues with the Old Testament. Lot offering the raping of his daughter? God allowing the soldiers to take the young women (I think we know what for).

It also does not scream of love to me. If God wants everyone, why does He want to harm someone? It does not make sense to my brain, as simple as it may be.

 

[CrystalDragon]

I have big issues with the Old Testament. Lot offering the raping of his daughter? God allowing the soldiers to take the young women (I think we know what for).

It also does not scream of love to me. If God wants everyone, why does He want to harm someone? It does not make sense to my brain, as simple as it may be.

That's exactly how I feel. The only way it makes sense to my brain is if we assume that either

A. The Bible is not the Word of God and is instead just the words of a strictly patriarchal war society that saw women as inferior.
B. God is morally ambiguous or is evil.

I find A most likely.

 

[Justmeoverhere]

Greetings, JustMe, and welcome to our Forum.

I feel your pain on this, but let me first answer by telling you that our God very much loves those who are wiling to suffer for His sake, no matter who they are. And when it comes to those faithful women of God who have remained obedient in their marriages to less then honorable men, women who have devoted themselves to prayer and holiness in the sight of God, many will be surprised about just how many of them are seated on thrones in eternity, and rule over the entire body of Christ forever because they proved themselves to be the most faithful.

That having been said, be encouraged. No, women are NOT to be doormats, they are to be honored. No, they are not to be seen as second class believers, and no a married Christian woman is not to simply be grateful that her husband is not sleeping around. That's quite frankly so disgusting that I have a hard time believing they would have told you that.

The issue of women in the Bible is an extremely lengthy one, and I couldn't answer those questions unless you asked about a specific passage. But if you and your husband must go to counsellors, pray God provides you with someone who is worth hearing, and doesn't make excuses for sin and ignorance.

As far as what was told to me in counseling, it was actually said. I thought counseling was going really well, but we had a 3 week setback that was kind of rough. My husband walked in and the first thing he said was, "I admit, I've been an (insert bad language)." I was frustrated and I think the pastor/counselor had a really bad day.

Your post is really uplifting. I'm really struggling right now because I don't want to feel this way and I've never felt like God never cared before. I've always had such strong faith until this past week.

 

[Justmeoverhere]

Greetings, JustMe, and welcome to our Forum.

I feel your pain on this, but let me first answer by telling you that our God very much loves those who are wiling to suffer for His sake, no matter who they are. And when it comes to those faithful women of God who have remained obedient in their marriages to less then honorable men, women who have devoted themselves to prayer and holiness in the sight of God, many will be surprised about just how many of them are seated on thrones in eternity, and rule over the entire body of Christ forever because they proved themselves to be the most faithful.

That having been said, be encouraged. No, women are NOT to be doormats, they are to be honored. No, they are not to be seen as second class believers, and no a married Christian woman is not to simply be grateful that her husband is not sleeping around. That's quite frankly so disgusting that I have a hard time believing they would have told you that.

The issue of women in the Bible is an extremely lengthy one, and I couldn't answer those questions unless you asked about a specific passage. But if you and your husband must go to counsellors, pray God provides you with someone who is worth hearing, and doesn't make excuses for sin and ignorance.

As far as what was told to me in counseling, it was actually said. I thought counseling was going really well, but we had a 3 week setback that was kind of rough. My husband walked in and the first thing he said was, "I admit, I've been an (insert bad language)." I was frustrated and I think the pastor/counselor had a really bad day.

Your post is really uplifting. I'm really struggling right now because I don't want to feel this way and I've never felt like God never cared before. I've always had such strong faith until this past week.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I have big issues with the Old Testament. Lot offering the raping of his daughter? God allowing the soldiers to take the young women (I think we know what for).

It also does not scream of love to me. If God wants everyone, why does He want to harm someone? It does not make sense to my brain, as simple as it may be.

There are answers, but getting to them isn't easy, Justmeoverhere. I'm sorry it all seems so lacking and unreflective of today's democratic sense of social care, but there really are explanations of the texts.

 

[Justmeoverhere]

Greetings, JustMe, and welcome to our Forum.

I feel your pain on this, but let me first answer by telling you that our God very much loves those who are wiling to suffer for His sake, no matter who they are. And when it comes to those faithful women of God who have remained obedient in their marriages to less then honorable men, women who have devoted themselves to prayer and holiness in the sight of God, many will be surprised about just how many of them are seated on thrones in eternity, and rule over the entire body of Christ forever because they proved themselves to be the most faithful.

That having been said, be encouraged. No, women are NOT to be doormats, they are to be honored. No, they are not to be seen as second class believers, and no a married Christian woman is not to simply be grateful that her husband is not sleeping around. That's quite frankly so disgusting that I have a hard time believing they would have told you that.

The issue of women in the Bible is an extremely lengthy one, and I couldn't answer those questions unless you asked about a specific passage. But if you and your husband must go to counsellors, pray God provides you with someone who is worth hearing, and doesn't make excuses for sin and ignorance.

As far as what was told to me in counseling, it was actually said. I thought counseling was going really well, but we had a 3 week setback that was kind of rough. My husband walked in and the first thing he said was, "I admit, I've been an (insert bad language)." I was frustrated and I think the pastor/counselor had a really bad day.

Your post is really uplifting. I'm really struggling right now because I don't want to feel this way and I've never felt like God never cared before. I've always had such strong faith until this past week.

 

[Justmeoverhere]

I want to thank everyone for your replies! You have given me much to think about. I need to bow out of this conversation because I'm currently struggling with this and I felt like this was a good place to come and set my head right. It looks like I'm maybe giving others more reasons not to believe, too. So I gracefully bow out but I will read any responses, because I am currently desperate for someone to tell me my feelings are wrong, or I'm somehow really misreading things.