Are women treated unfairly in the Bible?

rockytopva

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And the first to see the Lord post crucifixtion was a woman..

11 But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre,

12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.

13 And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him.

14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.

15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.

16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her. - John 20
 
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GingerBeer

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I won't get into details except to say during our counseling sessions, I have repeatedly been told to submit, Ephesians 5, yada yada. I have done that. My husband was told to work on some things and he didn't. I showed frustration in a session and was told, "You should be grateful your husband is coming home every night. That he's not with other women."

I spent 2 days after hearing this pouring over every time women were mentioned in the Bible. My takeaway is a complete challenge to my faith. I do not see love for women in the Bible. I see women offered up to be raped, women held as "less than", and told to submit at all times, even when husbands are cruel or unfair. It appears to me that a suffering woman is pleasing to God. So that is my debate question: Is a suffering woman pleasing to God? Is that His desire?
Keep your faith in Jesus but never ever let what's written in a book make you feel like you need to be happy about being treated badly and never ever let what's written in a book make you treat other people badly. The Golden Rule ought to govern your attitude towards dealing with others. "Treat others as you want to be treated". Coupled with the command to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength these two principles cover everything that is you duty.
 
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brinny

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And the first to see the Lord post crucifixtion was a woman..

11 But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre,

12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.

13 And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him.

14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.

15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.

16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her. - John 20

Yes, women were the first to be at His resurrection, and to be met with angels, and then to see Jesus, and then to share the GOOD NEWS that He is RISEN!!!!

Thank you for sharing this!!
 
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JackRT

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When we look at the bible, both old and new testaments, we realize that they emerged from an extremely patriarchal society. This society devalued women to the extent that they were not even considered to be persons before the law. Not only were they devalued but they were in many ways considered to be of inferior intellect and of a carnal nature even more so than the male. Today we know that women are the intellectual and spiritual equals of men and in every other respect except physical size and strength. Jesus himself seems to gave been largely gender blind in that he numbered women among his disciples and apostles and even close friends. Paul, at first, appears conflicted until we realize that the pastoral epistles (1 and 2 Timothy and Titus) were actually written pseudonomously some 60 years after Paul's death. This was more than enough time for patriarchy to once again take charge. In my personal opinion patriarchy just might be the ugliest evil that humanity has ever inflicted on itself. It still exerts its malevolent influence in some circles even today. As a Christian I am convinced that we should make every effort to ensure the full equality of women in every aspect of the life of our churches and in society at large.
 
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dqhall

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This may not be a debate, but first time poster here and I'm curious on your thoughts. Please feel free to move if need be.

Struggling a lot in my marriage, was getting pastoral counseling through our church. I've always been a Christian, but not much of a Bible reader. Recently I've rectified that. I was honestly shocked at how women were treated in the Bible. And how they are commanded to behave.

I won't get into details except to say during our counseling sessions, I have repeatedly been told to submit, Ephesians 5, yada yada. I have done that. My husband was told to work on some things and he didn't. I showed frustration in a session and was told, "You should be grateful your husband is coming home every night. That he's not with other women."

I spent 2 days after hearing this pouring over every time women were mentioned in the Bible. My takeaway is a complete challenge to my faith. I do not see love for women in the Bible. I see women offered up to be raped, women held as "less than", and told to submit at all times, even when husbands are cruel or unfair. It appears to me that a suffering woman is pleasing to God. So that is my debate question: Is a suffering woman pleasing to God? Is that His desire?
I have seen numerous married couples pleased with their marriages, nor could they harm each other. They were Christians and knew to love each other.

It is a shame that some women have been mistreated. There are also marriages where the man felt like he was not being helped. Men are more likely to break their backs and die young. I am sure there are many examples where men did all they could for women. The men on the Titantic loaded their women and children into the few lifeboats available. There were not enough life boats for men who went down with the ship after it hit an iceberg in the North Atlantic on April 15, 1912. The women of America donated funds and made a memorial for the men who gave their lives saving women and children during the sinking of the Titanic. It is still visible in the SW Washington, D.C. Waterfront neighborhood.
 
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Cassidy Bennett

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This may not be a debate, but first time poster here and I'm curious on your thoughts. Please feel free to move if need be.

Struggling a lot in my marriage, was getting pastoral counseling through our church. I've always been a Christian, but not much of a Bible reader. Recently I've rectified that. I was honestly shocked at how women were treated in the Bible. And how they are commanded to behave.

I won't get into details except to say during our counseling sessions, I have repeatedly been told to submit, Ephesians 5, yada yada. I have done that. My husband was told to work on some things and he didn't. I showed frustration in a session and was told, "You should be grateful your husband is coming home every night. That he's not with other women."

I spent 2 days after hearing this pouring over every time women were mentioned in the Bible. My takeaway is a complete challenge to my faith. I do not see love for women in the Bible. I see women offered up to be raped, women held as "less than", and told to submit at all times, even when husbands are cruel or unfair. It appears to me that a suffering woman is pleasing to God. So that is my debate question: Is a suffering woman pleasing to God? Is that His desire?


Your church sounds strange for telling you that. I would find a different one. I like how everyone remembers to wives...submit to your husbands verse but ignore the very next line!!!

Ephesians 5:25 "Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church..."

How did Christ love the church? He died for us.

Find a different church. Read song of solomon.
 
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makeajoyfulnoise100

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Hello! I'm not saying there's not women in the Bible. They are there. The ratio is a little off. I just don't care for this example because when you bring up the multitudes of Bible passages that talk about the treatment of women, people say, "Oh! But what about those 3 or 4 women (okay, maybe a dozen) in the Bible? They had honor! They had the ear of men. They were powerful." Well... good for those few women. They were obviously born in the right families, in the right places, at the right times to be given the "rights" that they were. I think it's reading too much into the Bible to say, "But...but...Deborah, and Mary, and Esther." If a few women born years (centuries) apart, have some impact, I'm not surprised.

My feelings lately are really challenging my faith and making me question if I want a relationship to a Creator who doesn't seem to care about me, as an entire gender. A Creator that prefers I suffer.

I would encourage you to read the Bible along with Francine Rivers "A Lineage of Grace," that shows women from very different backgrounds and not just the ones born in the right families. Rehab and Tamar for example. I used to believe the Bible offered me nothing as a 21 century feminist (2nd wave mind you) but I found many women relatable and loved their stories. The first woman in the Bible is Eve. And in English ppl think the word evil comes from Eve. That's the patriarchy talking. Her Hebrew name is Havah which means life. So I would do research if I were you. Another thing I would suggest is to read the JCC version of the Bible with the contextual Hebrew to make it a bigger picture. I'm finding these stories much more deeper than I had with versions like the NIV.
 
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MournfulWatcher

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A lot of terrible things happen in the Old Testament that none of the writers make moral judgments on. For example, it does not say that it was the will of God for Lot to give his daughters up to rapists.

In the New Testament, you must also remember that the role of submission/leadership for males and females only goes so far as a husband and wife. A man you are not married to has no authority over you or any woman he is not married to.

The marriage between a man and a woman is supposed to be reflective of the relationship of Christ and the Church; women are representative of the church in that they listen to their husband's authority, and men represent Christ in that they love their wives like themselves and would sacrifice everything for her and are to be spiritual leaders of the home.

But of course it is not a perfect metaphor, and God knows this because men and women fail one another all the time; women do not always respect their husbands, and husbands do not always love their wives. This is why, before the Bible says anything about wives submitting to husbands and husbands loving wives, it says "Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God." - Ephesians 5:21. While wives are to submit to their husbands, it is not a kingship, and both spouses should respect one another enough to submit sometimes, because in the long term there is no male or female in Christ (Galatians 3:28)

As far as leadership in the church goes, men should generally be pastors, because, well, the Bible says so. It doesn't really give a reason why, but personally I think it's because God is masculine, therefore the ones helping to lead His Church should be male. That's not to say God never calls females to leadership; He has done so in the past, you can even see it in the Bible.

So in conclusion, the Old Testament tells it like it was back then, often leaving it up to the reader to decide whether a Biblical character's actions were right or wrong. The OT was generally unkind and cruel to women, with some exceptions.

When you realize this, it makes the New Testament look very progressive with how it treated women, saying thing like, "Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers." (1 Peter 3:7 - It was very rare for a Jewish man to tell other Jewish men to respect their wives because they were also "heirs of the gift of life" since women were equivalent to property back then.) Or how about the fact that Jesus interacted often with women, which was FORBIDDEN for Jewish men to do.

It's hard to see the good things said about women in the Bible because it was written in a time where women were not appreciated in the culture--which is why it's so important to find the passages that speak well of women, because you know that those are certainly of God. He wouldn't call us "heirs of the gift of life" if we were not important to Him.
 
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PeaceB

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Today we know that women are the intellectual and spiritual equals of men and in every other respect except physical size and strength.
No, sorry. Women actually have higher IQs and emotional intelligence scores than men. And they live longer.

Jesus himself seems to gave been largely gender blind in that he numbered women among his disciples and apostles and even close friends.
Nah. Jesus chose 12 men as his apostles, and 0 women. He certainly could have done otherwise. It's not like he was restrained by the cultural norms of the time.

Paul, at first, appears conflicted until we realize that the pastoral epistles (1 and 2 Timothy and Titus) were actually written pseudonomously some 60 years after Paul's death.
Nah. Those are minority opinions. The weight of the evidence suggests otherwise.

In my personal opinion patriarchy just might be the ugliest evil that humanity has ever inflicted on itself.
How about the African slave trade, numerous genocides, and the millions of innocent unborn children who are put to death every year? Do any of these make it onto your list?

It still exerts its malevolent influence in some circles even today. As a Christian I am convinced that we should make every effort to ensure the full equality of women in every aspect of the life of our churches and in society at large.
And there I had thought that the one who is the least shall be the greatest.
 
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TimAM

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I read this recently and thought I would post it.

In Malachi 2:13-16, God was upset at some men because of the way they were treating their wives.

Malachi 2:13-16 "13Another thing you do: You flood the Lord’s altar with tears. You weep and wail because he no longer looks with favor on your offerings or accepts them with pleasure from your hands. 14You ask, “Why?” It is because the Lord is the witness between you and the wife of your youth. You have been unfaithful to her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage covenant.
15Has not the one God made you? You belong to him in body and spirit. And what does the one God seek? Godly offspring. So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful to the wife of your youth.
16“The man who hates and divorces his wife,” says the Lord, the God of Israel, “does violence to the one he should protect,” says the Lord Almighty.
So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful."
 
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PeaceB

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This may not be a debate, but first time poster here and I'm curious on your thoughts. Please feel free to move if need be.

Struggling a lot in my marriage, was getting pastoral counseling through our church. I've always been a Christian, but not much of a Bible reader. Recently I've rectified that. I was honestly shocked at how women were treated in the Bible. And how they are commanded to behave.

I won't get into details except to say during our counseling sessions, I have repeatedly been told to submit, Ephesians 5, yada yada. I have done that. My husband was told to work on some things and he didn't. I showed frustration in a session and was told, "You should be grateful your husband is coming home every night. That he's not with other women."

I spent 2 days after hearing this pouring over every time women were mentioned in the Bible. My takeaway is a complete challenge to my faith. I do not see love for women in the Bible. I see women offered up to be raped, women held as "less than", and told to submit at all times, even when husbands are cruel or unfair. It appears to me that a suffering woman is pleasing to God. So that is my debate question: Is a suffering woman pleasing to God? Is that His desire?
It does not sound like the counseling you have been getting has been very effective. Have you thought about trying to get counseling elsewhere?

As for the Bible, everything that you see in the Bible, or that is allowed or directed to take place in the Bible, is not necessarily God's ideal. You know what is good. You know that it is good for husbands to treat their wives lovingly. God desires the same.

Like others have said, keep offering your situation up to God in prayer, and allow him to find a solution. I do not know, but it seems that sometimes God allows us to face difficult situations, in order to bring us closer to him. I can point to some things I have suffered through, where I felt that was the case.

I hope that your situation improves.
 
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Vicomte13

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Basically, I don't understand God's reasoning and it seems women suffer and He is perfectly fine with that.

We all suffer, and God is the ultimate source of that suffering. God is not particularly kind to living beings. He kills all of us, and it's almost always painful.

This world being miserable, by God's choice, the only real question is whether this is all there is, or if there is more.

He promises us death and suffering here - didn't spare his own son being tortured to death in public. It's what comes next that balances the scale. We're born to die, in a world that is often quite awful. After we die, we wake up. And that's when the good part starts.

The deal is that if you endure the crap now and trust him, God will pay you back later with much better than you could ever have here. This side of the grave is going to be miserable no matter what you believe or don't believe.
 
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MournfulWatcher

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We all suffer, and God is the ultimate source of that suffering. God is not particularly kind to living beings. He kills all of us, and it's almost always painful.

This world being miserable, by God's choice, the only real question is whether this is all there is, or if there is more.

He promises us death and suffering here - didn't spare his own son being tortured to death in public. It's what comes next that balances the scale. We're born to die, in a world that is often quite awful. After we die, we wake up. And that's when the good part starts.

The deal is that if you endure the crap now and trust him, God will pay you back later with much better than you could ever have here. This side of the grave is going to be miserable no matter what you believe or don't believe.

Don't get too cheerful, now.
 
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PeaceB

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We all suffer, and God is the ultimate source of that suffering. God is not particularly kind to living beings. He kills all of us, and it's almost always painful.
Do you suppose that St. Joseph, the patron saint of a happy death, has decided to stop interceding for us, or are his prayers ineffective?

This world being miserable, by God's choice, the only real question is whether this is all there is, or if there is more.

He promises us death and suffering here - didn't spare his own son being tortured to death in public. It's what comes next that balances the scale. We're born to die, in a world that is often quite awful. After we die, we wake up. And that's when the good part starts.

The deal is that if you endure the crap now and trust him, God will pay you back later with much better than you could ever have here. This side of the grave is going to be miserable no matter what you believe or don't believe.
Evangelii Gaudium : Apostolic Exhortation on the Proclamation of the Gospel in Today's World (24 November 2013) | Francis

Perhaps the most exciting invitation is that of the prophet Zephaniah, who presents God with his people in the midst of a celebration overflowing with the joy of salvation. I find it thrilling to reread this text: “The Lord, your God is in your midst, a warrior who gives you the victory; he will rejoice over you with gladness, he will renew you in his love; he will exult over you with loud singing, as on a day of festival” (3:17).

This is the joy which we experience daily, amid the little things of life, as a response to the loving invitation of God our Father: “My child, treat yourself well, according to your means… Do not deprive yourself of the day’s enjoyment” (Sir 14:11, 14). What tender paternal love echoes in these words!

5. The Gospel, radiant with the glory of Christ’s cross, constantly invites us to rejoice. A few examples will suffice. “Rejoice!” is the angel’s greeting to Mary (Lk 1:28). Mary’s visit to Elizabeth makes John leap for joy in his mother’s womb (cf. Lk 1:41). In her song of praise, Mary proclaims: “My spirit rejoices in God my Saviour” (Lk 1:47). When Jesus begins his ministry, John cries out: “For this reason, my joy has been fulfilled” (Jn 3:29). Jesus himself “rejoiced in the Holy Spirit” (Lk 10:21). His message brings us joy: “I have said these things to you, so that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be complete” (Jn 15:11). Our Christian joy drinks of the wellspring of his brimming heart. He promises his disciples: “You will be sorrowful, but your sorrow will turn into joy” (Jn 16:20). He then goes on to say: “But I will see you again and your hearts will rejoice, and no one will take your joy from you” (Jn 16:22). The disciples “rejoiced” (Jn 20:20) at the sight of the risen Christ. In the Acts of the Apostles we read that the first Christians “ate their food with glad and generous hearts” (2:46). Wherever the disciples went, “there was great joy” (8:8); even amid persecution they continued to be “filled with joy” (13:52). The newly baptized eunuch “went on his way rejoicing” (8:39), while Paul’s jailer “and his entire household rejoiced that he had become a believer in God” (16:34). Why should we not also enter into this great stream of joy?

6. There are Christians whose lives seem like Lent without Easter. I realize of course that joy is not expressed the same way at all times in life, especially at moments of great difficulty. Joy adapts and changes, but it always endures, even as a flicker of light born of our personal certainty that, when everything is said and done, we are infinitely loved. I understand the grief of people who have to endure great suffering, yet slowly but surely we all have to let the joy of faith slowly revive as a quiet yet firm trust, even amid the greatest distress: “My soul is bereft of peace; I have forgotten what happiness is… But this I call to mind, and therefore I have hope: the steadfast love of the Lord never ceases, his mercies never come to an end; they are new every morning. Great is your faithfulness… It is good that one should wait quietly for the salvation of the Lord” (Lam 3:17, 21-23, 26).

7. Sometimes we are tempted to find excuses and complain, acting as if we could only be happy if a thousand conditions were met. To some extent this is because our “technological society has succeeded in multiplying occasions of pleasure, yet has found it very difficult to engender joy”.[2] I can say that the most beautiful and natural expressions of joy which I have seen in my life were in poor people who had little to hold on to. I also think of the real joy shown by others who, even amid pressing professional obligations, were able to preserve, in detachment and simplicity, a heart full of faith. In their own way, all these instances of joy flow from the infinite love of God, who has revealed himself to us in Jesus Christ. I never tire of repeating those words of Benedict XVI which take us to the very heart of the Gospel: “Being a Christian is not the result of an ethical choice or a lofty idea, but the encounter with an event, a person, which gives life a new horizon and a decisive direction”.[3]

8. Thanks solely to this encounter – or renewed encounter – with God’s love, which blossoms into an enriching friendship, we are liberated from our narrowness and self-absorption. We become fully human when we become more than human, when we let God bring us beyond ourselves in order to attain the fullest truth of our being. Here we find the source and inspiration of all our efforts at evangelization. For if we have received the love which restores meaning to our lives, how can we fail to share that love with others?​
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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QUOTE="Justmeoverhere, post: 71511593, member: 400167"]I agree but don't understand the concept behind it. Basically, I don't understand God's reasoning and it seems women suffer and He is perfectly fine with that.

You mention YHWH and following what He says. So if I follow what He says, I am not necessarily blessed. It is dependent on what my husband does. And YHWH asks that the wife...,[/QUOTE

..Good, for now, a step at a time learning YHWH'S WORD. (PERFECT WORD).

YHWH does not "ask" anyone - the wife, the husband, the children, Israel, followers of Jesus immersed in Him.
YHWH tells everyone what to do - no questions, no changes, no rebellion tolerated.
YHWH gives blessings REGARDLESS of this --- "it is dependent on what my husband does" ---- NO, it is never dependent on what your husband does.
YHWH gives abundant truth live blessings "born again" eternal life without any regard for what your husband or anyone else does.
All GIFTS in JESUS, for those who obey Him, those who DO what YHWH says.

Thus, instead of agreeing with changing society, which is always totally corrupt and wicked and evil and sinful (society is pernicious, naked and blind);

we agree with YHWH , AGAINST society, against women libbers, against politicians and religious leaders who lie and lead many to destruction.

we agree with YHWH - YHWH Who Alone is Always True and Faithful -
YHWH Who Alone is able to give life, freedom from sin, truth, and righteousness.

Even when all society rebels , including many churches and so-called 'Christians',
even when leaders and teachers and "professionals" and the educated ones
disagree with YHWH,
we agree with YHWH against all of them.
By YHWH'S GRACE in JESUS SAVIOR MESSIAH KING REDEEMER HEALER.

YHWH'S WORD is TRUTH, unchanged, unchanging forever.

 
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2PhiloVoid

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I really dislike men such as him but he does accurately cite what the bible says and thinks about women

Zoii, is this the same Jack Schaap that was accused of the following? If so, I'd be questioning just how much I'd be listening to his......*ahem*....preaching about men's leadership over women. :confused: And I'm guessing that in this instance....we can say God "did" something about it, one way or another.

Former Pastor Jack Schaap Blames Affair With Teen on Personal Problems

Jack Schaap Sentenced: Indiana Pastor Gets 12 Years For Sexual Relationship With Teen Parishioner | HuffPost

Jack Schaap wants sentence overturned
 
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Justmeoverhere

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Our wise God knows that if our life was wonderful and everything went our way, we would become spoiled, self-centred and proud and forget all about Him.......such is fallen human nature. And so He allows suffering and challenges into our lives......to not only make us and mold us more and more into the likeness of His Son, but also to cause us to seek Him.......and so this is what you are doing. Your marriage has not caught God by surprise, He knew long ago what you would be facing, and He has gone ahead to have ready what you need, if you are willing to take what is a blessed opportunity to find eternal life.

The way to life is a narrow path.....between a rock and a hard place......and in that narrow place we seek the Lord to do what we don't really have in ourselves to do. We seek Him also to help us understand His word, because it often is foolishness to our natural mind, which cannot perceive the things of the Spirit.

Lot was a righteous man, so we can be sure he loved and cherished his daughters. In the ethics and value system of that time and place, hospitality came with a solemn duty of honour to protect and provide for one's guests who had come under your roof for shelter. Not only that, but his guests in this case were holy angels....and it was too much for his righteous soul to bear to allow them to be given over to the depraved men of Sodom. In offering his daughter, he was making a terrible sacrifice, similar to Abraham obeying the Lord in offering his son Isaac......you could say this was Lot's rock and hard place.....and the result was that he still had the angels under his roof to pull he and his family to safety when God's judgment was about to fall on Sodom.

In deciding to take up our cross and follow Jesus, we take on a new perspective, heaven's perspective which is not seeking to make us happy and fulfilled in life, but is seeking to make us into saints. It is not an easy road, and we learn to endure hardship like good soldiers.....from heaven's perspective, the perspective or eternity, these are light and momentary troubles.......which are working to enable us to partake of His holiness. It is not that God doesn't care, He does care and is attentive to all that is going on in your life, even to counting the hairs on your head, and remember also that in all our afflictions, He is afflicted. Be encouraged sister, and make up your mind to seek the Lord and to obey Him, and lean not to your own understanding, but in all your ways acknowledge Him and He will make your paths straight.....in His strength.

Our wise God knows that if our life was wonderful and everything went our way, we would become spoiled, self-centred and proud and forget all about Him.......such is fallen human nature. And so He allows suffering and challenges into our lives......to not only make us and mold us more and more into the likeness of His Son, but also to cause us to seek Him.......and so this is what you are doing. Your marriage has not caught God by surprise, He knew long ago what you would be facing, and He has gone ahead to have ready what you need, if you are willing to take what is a blessed opportunity to find eternal life.

The way to life is a narrow path.....between a rock and a hard place......and in that narrow place we seek the Lord to do what we don't really have in ourselves to do. We seek Him also to help us understand His word, because it often is foolishness to our natural mind, which cannot perceive the things of the Spirit.

Lot was a righteous man, so we can be sure he loved and cherished his daughters. In the ethics and value system of that time and place, hospitality came with a solemn duty of honour to protect and provide for one's guests who had come under your roof for shelter. Not only that, but his guests in this case were holy angels....and it was too much for his righteous soul to bear to allow them to be given over to the depraved men of Sodom. In offering his daughter, he was making a terrible sacrifice, similar to Abraham obeying the Lord in offering his son Isaac......you could say this was Lot's rock and hard place.....and the result was that he still had the angels under his roof to pull he and his family to safety when God's judgment was about to fall on Sodom.

In deciding to take up our cross and follow Jesus, we take on a new perspective, heaven's perspective which is not seeking to make us happy and fulfilled in life, but is seeking to make us into saints. It is not an easy road, and we learn to endure hardship like good soldiers.....from heaven's perspective, the perspective or eternity, these are light and momentary troubles.......which are working to enable us to partake of His holiness. It is not that God doesn't care, He does care and is attentive to all that is going on in your life, even to counting the hairs on your head, and remember also that in all our afflictions, He is afflicted. Be encouraged sister, and make up your mind to seek the Lord and to obey Him, and lean not to your own understanding, but in all your ways acknowledge Him and He will make your paths straight.....in His strength.
This really spoke to me. Really, truly. I appreciate all of you so much. I am going to watch the suggested videos and books. It is a difficult time, but I can feel the love here, and I thank you for it!!! A few of you said some things that really spoke to me. I'm still learning how to ise this forum. I yrie2d to pm a few of you to say thank you, but I couldn't figure it out *hides head in shame* It is so hard to admit faith is faltering. I mean, I believe God is real...but it has been eye opening for me lately and I'm trying to deal with that. Much love, justme
 
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Rescued One

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This may not be a debate, but first time poster here and I'm curious on your thoughts. Please feel free to move if need be.

Struggling a lot in my marriage, was getting pastoral counseling through our church. I've always been a Christian, but not much of a Bible reader. Recently I've rectified that. I was honestly shocked at how women were treated in the Bible. And how they are commanded to behave.

I won't get into details except to say during our counseling sessions, I have repeatedly been told to submit, Ephesians 5, yada yada. I have done that. My husband was told to work on some things and he didn't. I showed frustration in a session and was told, "You should be grateful your husband is coming home every night. That he's not with other women."

I spent 2 days after hearing this pouring over every time women were mentioned in the Bible. My takeaway is a complete challenge to my faith. I do not see love for women in the Bible. I see women offered up to be raped, women held as "less than", and told to submit at all times, even when husbands are cruel or unfair. It appears to me that a suffering woman is pleasing to God. So that is my debate question: Is a suffering woman pleasing to God? Is that His desire?

I think you need another counselor! The one you have might not be the one you need. You need one that will hold both husband and wife accountable. And if your husband doesn't want to work on anything, go alone.


Husbands and wives are both supposed to submit to Christ.
Husbands, 8 Admonitions to Love Your Wife

Ephesians 5
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

Colossians 3
19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.
 
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Rescued One

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That's exactly how I feel. The only way it makes sense to my brain is if we assume that either

A. The Bible is not the Word of God and is instead just the words of a strictly patriarchal war society that saw women as inferior.
B. God is morally ambiguous or is evil.

I find A most likely.

I disagree.
 
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