When is lying not sinful?

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What about for Joking and jesting? Could you lie without it being wrong. I like to exaggerate sometimes in my jokes but its never deceptive its always pretty obvious but is it still wrong.

18 "Just as damaging as a madman shooting a deadly weapon
19 is someone who lies to a friend and then says, “I was only joking.”
20 Fire goes out without wood, and quarrels disappear when gossip stops.
21 A quarrelsome person starts fights as easily as hot embers"
(Proverbs 26:18-21) (NLT).


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But Yet, I am unconvinced. :smirk: I'm an advocate for the critical Greek text. But beyond that, it seems like a stretch. That interpretation, just like the scribal addition of "yet", was formulated to make Jesus' statement true. It doesn't bother me one way or the other though. Jesus' intention here was not a malicious one.

Sometimes you gotta just let that Greek go, man; And just read the Word of God plainly in a language you do undertand.

I have no problem with the explanation. It is clear, Jesus did not simply agree to go with them publically instead of privately. Jesus also did not technically attend the festival because he was watching in secret. Think about it.


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ByTheSpirit

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18 "Just as damaging as a madman shooting a deadly weapon
19 is someone who lies to a friend and then says, “I was only joking.”
20 Fire goes out without wood, and quarrels disappear when gossip stops.
21 A quarrelsome person starts fights as easily as hot embers"
(Proverbs 26:18-21) (NLT).


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I don't think this is the same as playing around with family and friends.
 
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4x4toy

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Abram clearly states that Sarai is his half sister to Pharaoh.
This would have only been a lie if it was not true.
I simply choose to believe Abram in that she was his half sister.


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Abram told Sarai to say she was his sister, the concept seemed strange to her at first imo but she agreed . We have the same father but not the same mother which I could say of my own wife spiritually speaking and be deceptive but not lying in a spiritual way, Jesus said ''who are my mother and brothers'' kind of way, I know it's a reach on my part so forgive me for now
 
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Dan61861

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But in reality it is still a lie. It is still telling an untruth. A lie is when you say something false. Scripture says it is impossible for God to lie. God tells us to be ye holy as I am holy.
If an attacker who comes into a person's home, and asks if there is anyone in the house, you can say,
"Do you see anyone else here?" "Please feel free to look around."
It would not technically be an outright lie like saying... "no, nobody is here." (if their child was hiding in a closet somewhere). So one does not have to lie if they no how to properly respond.


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I agree, it would still be a lie. I was being deceptive. Yours would be a lie as well, you are being deceptive. But I never said it wasn't a lie, I said it wasn't sin. Just as your answer would not be sin. Love covers a multitude of sins.

In Christ
Daniel
 
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Apex

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Sometimes you gotta just let that Greek go, man; And just read the Word of God plainly in a language you do understand.

That is impossible at this point. It is what I went to school for. I'm hoping to read the Greek NT and the Greek LXX without help one day. It's not as hard as you'd think once you memorize the Greek alphabet and the top 200 most commonly used Greek words in the Bible. Well....grammar is hard. Sometimes you just have to flex those thinking muscles.
 
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4x4toy

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I agree, it would still be a lie. I was being deceptive. Yours would be a lie as well, you are being deceptive. But I never said it wasn't a lie, I said it wasn't sin. Just as your answer would not be sin. Love covers a multitude of sins.

In Christ
Daniel

Another interesting point ''love covers a multitude of sins'' .. Love from the the one being sinned against or the one sinning or both ?
 
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AlexDTX

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Lying is saying words that are not truthful in any way.
Luke 12:28 is not a case for this.
Being deceptive with one's movements or in revealing truth on a physical level is not lying or sinful.
We wear clothes. We are hiding truth from people. But that is not sinful.
God can do things that might make us think one thing because of our carnal minds, but God is actually doing something else. That is not sinful in any way.
I am still trying to understand discretion since I tend to bluntly say what I mean. I think lying is still a willful deception.
 
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I don't think this is the same as playing around with family and friends.

Yes, it is a more intense thing happening in that case and scenario.
But the underlying truth is there.
If somebody is offended, the jokester will reply, "I was only joking"
I think it is important that our words are always truthful and never filled with any kind of lies, even in jesting or playing around. Remember, in Christ's mouth there was no deceit (1 Peter 2:22).


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Apex

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Well kinda but more important to me is that is Abrams father Terah mentions only that he begot 3 sons with no mention of other sons and daughters, all other patriarchs mention other sons and daughters even Abraham is mentioned having other sons and daughters is all I'm saying .. So the road ends there for me except for speculation .. God told Abimilech ''the woman is his wife''

So, if the text did mentioned Terah's daughters, you'd be okay with Abraham marrying his half-sister?
 
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Another interesting point ''love covers a multitude of sins'' .. Love from the the one being sinned against or the one sinning or both ?

If one sins themselves, and they are also being loving, they still need to repent of their sin. A person's own love does not undo their other evil. That would be like a serial killer who is kind and caring with his victims in other ways by feeding them really good food and rubbing their feet with massage oil, etc. It would not matter because he was going to still kill them. His love in other areas do not count. Ezekiel 18:24 comes to mind.


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So, if the text did mentioned Terah's daughters, you'd be okay with Abraham marrying his half-sister?

During that time, the genetic code was stronger (untainted yet by sin). Also, God did not place any prohibitions on marrying those who are close of kin during these early years until the written Law. For how do you think the world populated from Adam and then yet again with Noah?



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ByTheSpirit

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Yes, it is a more intense thing happening in that case and scenario.
But the underlying truth is there.
If somebody is offended, the jokester will reply, "I was only joking"
I think it is important that our words are always truthful and never filled with any kind of lies, even in jesting or playing around. Remember, in Christ's mouth there was no deceit (1 Peter 2:22).


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I don't know, perhaps there is room to use discernment and know who you are dealing with. I know personally a joke aimed at myself is almost always a welcome relief from the stresses of life. I always welcome an opportunity to have a laugh. But not everyone is that way sure.

I guess I can't make fart noises anymore and blame it on others then... :(
 
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I don't know, perhaps there is room to use discernment and know who you are dealing with. I know personally a joke aimed at myself is almost always a welcome relief from the stresses of life. I always welcome an opportunity to have a laugh. But not everyone is that way sure.

I guess I can't make fart noises anymore and blame it on others then... :(

I joke around a lot with my wife and we laugh and it does not involve deception.
Granted, I am not perfect sometimes and I do slip up on occasion.
But I strive to always be truthful in my words, even while joking around.


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4x4toy

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I am still trying to understand discretion since I tend to bluntly say what I mean. I think lying is still a willful deception.

We operate according to our own understanding .. I saw a poor man with kids walk in to a turkey shoot years ago everyone knew, we'll call him Chunk ,when the first round was done the judge took the cards and was saying ''I'm not sure, it's pretty close between Chunk and Dave , nah I think Chunk is closer , Chunks the winner .. Everyone kinda knew the judge had cheated for Chunk and everyone was in agreement , cheating and lying for Chunk ..
 
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I am still trying to understand discretion since I tend to bluntly say what I mean. I think lying is still a willful deception.

Lying is saying words that are not true.
But lying is NOT doing something deceptive like say hiding behind a tree or doing something bodily so as to make somebody to think something else.

If such was not the case, then Jesus would have lied in your view.
For Jesus physically hid the truth that He was God to various people.
Jesus did not use the full weight and power as God while He was on the Earth.
He did not float around all the time and destroy His enemies by crushing them with His hand from far away. Philippians says he became like a servant and was obedient unto death.
He did this so as to be our substitute so as to save us (as you know).



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We operate according to our own understanding .. I saw a poor man with kids walk in to a turkey shoot years ago everyone knew, we'll call him Chunk ,when the first round was done the judge took the cards and was saying ''I'm not sure, it's pretty close between Chunk and Dave , nah I think Chunk is closer , Chunks the winner .. Everyone kinda knew the judge had cheated for Chunk and everyone was in agreement , cheating and lying for Chunk ..

But I can't say Jesus would do that. It would have technically been a lie.
Think.
WWJD.


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ChristianFromKazakhstan

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Is there ever a time that being dishonest is actually ok to God?

I ask because a few times in scripture we see very godly men being deceitful and it not being recorded as wrong. In fact a couple times God seems to bless them in spite of it.

Abraham when he went before Pharoah and Abimelek. Isaac before Abimelek. Jacob with his brother Esau, several times. Joseph when he acted as if he didn't know his brothers, gave them back their silver and said he hadn't, then set up Benjamin with the Silver Cup. David acting mentally ill in front of Achish

What about making silly noises then blaming them on a friend or family member?

Or for a more serious matter, hiding someone to save their life? Or lying so you don't hurt someone's feelings?

So is there ever a time that being dishonest is ok?

IOW, when is a lie not sin?

Rahab the prostitute is an example of super great Faith in God

She lied.

So lying is OK
 
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