New Heaven and Earth Discussion

[Bible Highlighter]

There are TWO "New Heavens and New Earths."

One is the Millennium.
The other is the Final New Heavens and New Earth after the Judgment.

I believe Isaiah 65:17-25 and 2 Peter 3:13 is in reference to the Millennium.
Whereas Revelation 21:1 is in reference to the Final New Heavens and New Earth (Which comes after the Millennium). Several other commentators believe there are two "New Heavens and New Earths", as well.

This would be also consistent with the language of the Bible, too.
There are two types of "sons of God."
Angels and believers.
There are two types of lions.
The lion of the tribe of Judah and the roaring lion who seeks to devour you.
There are two types of vines.
The true vine and the vine of sodom.


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[Bible Highlighter]

This passage means exactly what it says, Jehovah/YHVH God is going to "make all things new".. (NOT "make all new things"). The "new heavens and new earth" are mentioned 4 times in Scripture.

MANY OT prophecies discuss the desert blooming like the rose, the earth being restored to Edenic conditions.

Jesus talks about "the paradise" of God (Rev 2:7). Jesus promised the thief on the cross that they would be together in paradise.
Peter mentions "the times of refreshing", and "restitution of all things";
Acts 3:19-21 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

And, Peter gives us a great amount of detail in his 2nd letter;

2 Peter 3:5-13 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, (The FIRST heaven and earth) being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, (The SECOND heaven and earth) by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, (The THIRD heaven and earth) wherein dwelleth righteousness.

We have to understand that the KJV uses language that is from the 1600's and it has influenced even Modern Translations, as well. Granted, I believe the KJV to be the perfect Word of God for our day, but I also realize that we need to look at Modern Translations to help update such English that is not commonly understood by people today.

Anyways, Jesus said Heaven and Earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away (Matthew 24:35). This suggests that the current Heaven and Earth really will pass away and be no more (one day). For Jesus is contrasting His words that are eternal with the Heaven and Earth that will be no more.


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[Colter]

It seems like, to summarize briefly, that some who have commented believe that the current Earth is going to be renovated, while others believe that there is going to be a new Earth all together. The phrase in the main text "for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away" gives me the impression that there will be a totally new "earth". That being said, I can see both sides of the fence on this one. I look forward to hearing of more views!

Eventually our earth will get gobbled up by the sun, so that future age will need a new planet anyway.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The only two things I see carrying over into the New Earth are:

(a) The city of New Jerusalem (that comes down from out of Heaven).
(b) The Lake of Fire (which will more than likely cease to exist in time after the wicked are erased from existence after they are punished for a certain amount of time).


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[Dartman]

We have to understand that the KJV uses language that is from the 1600's and it has influenced even Modern Translations, as well. Granted, I believe the KJV to be the perfect Word of God for our day, but I also realize that we need to look at Modern Translations to help update such English that is not commonly understood by people today.

Anyways, Jesus said Heaven and Earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away (Matthew 24:35). This suggests that the current Heaven and Earth really will pass away and be no more (one day). For Jesus is contrasting His words that are eternal with the Heaven and Earth that will be no more.
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Yes, and the Scriptures explain HOW this heaven and earth, "the heavens and earth which are now", pass away.
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, (The THIRD heaven and earth) wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, and the Scriptures explain HOW this heaven and earth, "the heavens and earth which are now", pass away.
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, (The THIRD heaven and earth) wherein dwelleth righteousness.

You will notice that it does not say that the Earth passes away. The Earth is merely burned.

This fits Jeremiah 4:23-27

• Jeremiah 4:23 ERV, Jeremiah 4:24AMP, Jeremiah 4:25 ERV,
.. Jeremiah 4:26a ISV, Jeremiah 4:26bWEB, Jeremiah 4:27 GWT

I looked at the earth. It was empty; there was nothing on it. I looked at the sky, and its light was gone. I looked at the mountains, and... they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly to and fro. I looked, but there were no people. All the birds of the sky had flown away. I looked, and the fruitful land had become a desert. All its cities were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. This is what the LORD says: The whole earth will be ruined, although I will not destroy it completely.


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[christina Pickle]

Revelation 21:1 says "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." Personally, I've always been intrigued by this verse. I know there is no clear/obvious answer in regards to what the purpose of the new earth is for, but I want to hear everyone's views and ideas on this subject. What thoughts do you have concerning this passage?

Rev. 21 and 22..I was always taught that those things described were happening in heaven, but that's not true. We will be living on the new earth with Christ, at least for a time. New Jerusalem comes down to be on the new earth. The gates, streets of gold, tree of life, God himself will be on the new earth.. It's remade for us and God to dwell in together, along with heaven somehow... Will it all be just be connected? Heaven and earth passing into both? who knows, but a pretty cool thought. Also, no more sea.. no more need for separation or cleansing n the Earth.

 

[Dartman]

You will notice that it does not say that the Earth passes away. The Earth is merely burned.

This fits Jeremiah 4:23-27

• Jeremiah 4:23 ERV, Jeremiah 4:24AMP, Jeremiah 4:25 ERV,
.. Jeremiah 4:26a ISV, Jeremiah 4:26bWEB, Jeremiah 4:27 GWT

I looked at the earth. It was empty; there was nothing on it. I looked at the sky, and its light was gone. I looked at the mountains, and... they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly to and fro. I looked, but there were no people. All the birds of the sky had flown away. I looked, and the fruitful land had become a desert. All its cities were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. This is what the LORD says: The whole earth will be ruined, although I will not destroy it completely.


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Excellent point.

 

[Dartman]

Rev. 21 and 22..I was always taught that those things described were happening in heaven, but that's not true. We will be living on the new earth with Christ, at least for a time. New Jerusalem comes down to be on the new earth. The gates, streets of gold, tree of life, God himself will be on the new earth.. It's remade for us and God to dwell in together, along with heaven somehow... Will it all be just be connected? Heaven and earth passing into both? who knows, but a pretty cool thought. Also, no more sea.. no more need for separation or cleansing n the Earth.

Very good observations.
Yes, the statement that God SENDS the holy city "out of heaven", indicates that the rest of the two chapters are discussing conditions ON the earth.
And, the statement that once the city has been sent to the earth, THEN God's tabernacle (dwelling place) is now on the earth;

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself shall be with them, and be their God.

 

[Kenny'sID]

"Heavens" here shouldn't be thought to refer to some otherworldly abode, some place called "heaven"; the term "heavens" refers to everything we see above us--everything "out there". "The heavens" are where the sun, moon, and stars exist; as a reference to God's dwelling this is euphemistic, Solomon says to God, "The heavens, not even the heavens of heavens, can contain You", the phrase "heavens of heavens" is an example of a Hebrew couplet wherein it refer to the greatest or highest (other examples: king of kings, lord of lords, god of gods), which is why some translations render this as "the highest heavens". The point is that God is bigger, more vast, more glorious than the furthest reaches we can see, fathom, or comprehend. The Psalmist says, "The heavens are Your throne, the earth is Your footstool" in attempt to speak of how glorious and vast and bigger than everything God is. God does not dwell in some dimension or place called "heaven", instead the Bible uses the limited vocabulary of human beings to speak of things so sublime and glorious that we can ultimately only say, "You are very, very, very big". The point in speaking about a "new heavens and a new earth" is to speak of all creation as a whole, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth", that means everything, the entire material creation. Our tiny blue orb, and everything else.

-CryptoLutheran

But the verse says Heaven, not Heavens. And God is in Heaven...just a couple of examples....

Revelation 4:2 “At once I was in the Spirit, and behold, a throne stood in heaven, with one seated on the throne.”

"Our Father who art in Heaven"


...so it would be very much a place. As I've always understood it, Heaven is in the heavens.

I see what you are saying, however, I am simply asking views on the new heaven and new earth. As the old song says ♫Jesus will be what makes it heaven for me♫. As long as I end up where Jesus is when I leave this earth, I am more than content. Salvation allows us to spend eternity with our savior

TS, the best I can figure, the New Jerusalem will literally come out of the heavens and be sat in it's appointed place. And that would be a city that contains the many mansions that were being prepared for us. And Christ will be King, President, ruler whatever we want to call him, of the world. We will all get a fair shake in the new life, as we live in the City. That's what I gather is a fact, or something close.

Visit Heaven? where I assume God dwells regularly? Don't know of any scripture that says yes or no, but tours would not surprise me a bit, and God may even bring some to live with him there.

I've often wondered if we will be allowed to live outside the city if we choose? I have a feeling there is going to be a lot of real estate per capita there.

Then I stop and think that some things will be unimaginable, things that would put my petty hopes to shame.

But even if it's merely the same earth, and pretty much the same system as now, but all fair, run by his Excellency Jesus Christ...that would be marvelous, to me, anything else would be icing on the cake .

 

[Kenny'sID]

Some great posts here that pretty much solidify it as fact, there will be a new earth. So now I'm thinking get ready for a planet that is much like Eden...we'll have come full circle, so why not?

 

[Haipule]

Revelation 21:1 says "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." Personally, I've always been intrigued by this verse. I know there is no clear/obvious answer in regards to what the purpose of the new earth is for, but I want to hear everyone's views and ideas on this subject. What thoughts do you have concerning this passage?

Revelation 21:1 says "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." Personally, I've always been intrigued by this verse. I know there is no clear/obvious answer in regards to what the purpose of the new earth is for, but I want to hear everyone's views and ideas on this subject. What thoughts do you have concerning this passage?

Revelation 21:1 says "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." Personally, I've always been intrigued by this verse. I know there is no clear/obvious answer in regards to what the purpose of the new earth is for, but I want to hear everyone's views and ideas on this subject. What thoughts do you have concerning this passage?

John is giving us a vision yet future. ouranon translated "heaven" means sky referring to the atmosphere in general. The idea given by the verbiage is renewal of the sky and land. He relates it in the aorist tense(no relation to time because the time is unknown). Yet, His observation that there is no sea is a present tense. Kinda like, "ok, I gots this vision of sky and land and...there is NO SEA!

If we can accept the pseudo-science of the "expanding earth" theory, the earth was made much smaller, without seas, and was expanded by a massive flood. Now there's water everywhere!

Moses said that the waters where once separated and that the water from above came down in Noah's day.

Separated water means that at one time the earth was much smaller, less gravity, with the lens of water above compressing the atmosphere creating a hyperbaric chamber by which man could live much longer as they once did before the flood. Also, a universal temperature and no weather.

It appears that John was given a vision of a renewed sky and land as God originally designed it--pristine!

If we remove the water and put the pieces back together into a smaller globe, the geologies will all match up perfect! Yet I, the surfer, will have no ocean to play in and no weather making swells! Can you feel my pain!

 

[Kenny'sID]

heav·en
ˈhevən/
noun
noun: Heaven; noun: heaven; plural noun: heavens; plural noun: the heavens

1. 1.
   a place regarded in various religions as the abode of God (or the gods) and the angels, and of the good after death, often traditionally depicted as being above the sky.
   synonyms: paradise, nirvana, Zion; More
   the hereafter, the next world, the next life, Elysium, the Elysian Fields, Valhalla;
   literarythe empyrean
   "the good will have a place in heaven"
   antonyms: hell, purgatory
   • God (or the gods).
     "Constantine was persuaded that disunity in the Church was displeasing to heaven"
   • Theology
     a state of being eternally in the presence of God after death.
   • informal
     a place, state, or experience of supreme bliss.
     "lying by the pool with a good book is my idea of heaven"
     synonyms: bliss, ecstasy, rapture, contentment, happiness, delight, joy, seventh heaven; More
     paradise, Utopia, nirvana
     "a good book is my idea of heaven"
     antonyms: misery
   • used in various exclamations as a substitute for “God”.
     exclamation: heaven; exclamation: heavens
     "Heaven knows!"
2. 2.
   literary
   the sky, especially perceived as a vault in which the sun, moon, stars, and planets are situated.
   "Galileo used a telescope to observe the heavens"
   synonyms: the sky, the skies, the upper atmosphere, the stratosphere, space; More

 

[Daniel_]

The Greek word for 'new' in Revelation 21 is 'kainos', which means a new quality, compared to 'neos' which means newly created. Jesus said we will inherit the earth, just that it will be a perfect world. The sea is a metaphor for chaos and disorder as in Genesis 1:2, God is going to do away with all disorder and chaos, not the sea. After all, the sea creatures are part of the creation and God isn't going to just get rid of them. It is being with God that will make it heaven, paradise, literally heaven on earth, so however it will all work out and what it will be like, I don't mind because I'll be with Christ!

 

[Daniel_]

In fact, it is the major theme of the whole Bible that heaven and earth were separated in Genesis 3, but in Revelation 21 they are joined back together for eternity, heaven representing God's dwelling and earth where we live. The OT Tabernacle, and later the Jerusalem temple, had the Holy Place and the Most Holy Place, which represented earth and heaven respectively. But they were separated by the curtain which tore in 2 when Jesus died, for he opened the way for human beings back to God. The complete renewal of all things (Matthew 19:28) is when Jesus returns and the whole creation is restored to its perfect potential.

 

[Kenny'sID]

The sea is a metaphor for chaos and disorder as in Genesis 1:2,

I'm not getting out of Genesis 1:2 that the sea is a metaphor.

 

[Purity Clarity Parkes]

I have read that it is the "sea" (oceans) that divides large amounts of people. On the new earth this division will be gone. Personally, I like the ocean. Things I presently like I will not miss, however, for I will be experiencing something better.
It will be like enjoying writing letters with pencil and paper and sending them by snail mail, and having that replaced with access to the Internet.
I believe that the Bible teaches the planet earth will exist forever (see such promises to Israel). The new earth is not a new planet, but the old planet renovated. New carpet, new fixtures,... the works. The planet presently has a curse upon it (Genesis 3:17), but that will be removed on the new earth (Revelation 22:3). New heaven (new atmosphere), not polluted by man, and probably improved in various ways for various unknown reasons presently.

I have to agree with you there, dear. In the new heavens and earth, God would not want us to be separated.

 

[parousia70]

Isaiah 65:17-23
“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
And her people a joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
And joy in My people;
The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her,
Nor the voice of crying.

20 “No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
They shall not plant and another eat;
For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,
And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain,
Nor bring forth children for trouble;
For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the Lord,
And their offspring with them.


Here we see that in the NH&NE time period Isaiah prophesies of, there will be:
Procreation
Birth
Ageing
Death
Sinners
The need for Shelter from the elements
Vocations/Labor
The need for nourishment
The passing of time marked in days

John speaks of the NH&E as a place where the Nations are in need of continual Healing.
Where trees produce fruit every 30 Days. (Revelation 22:2)
Where Just outside the city's gates are Dogs, Sorcerers, Murderers, liars, fornicators, etc (Revelation 22:15)
Where the Spirit and Bride call from inside the City to everyone outside the gates who thirst, to "Come freely and drink" (Revelation 22:17)

 

[Dartman]

Isaiah 65:17-23
“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
And her people a joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
And joy in My people;
The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her,
Nor the voice of crying.

20 “No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
They shall not plant and another eat;
For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,
And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain,
Nor bring forth children for trouble;
For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the Lord,
And their offspring with them.


Here we see that in the NH&NE time period Isaiah prophesies of, there will be:
Procreation
Birth
Ageing
Death
Sinners
The need for Shelter from the elements
Vocations/Labor
The need for nourishment
The passing of time marked in days

That doesn't match the grammar, or the rest of Scriptures. The fact that verse 18 begins with "But..." indicates a contrasting idea.
Yes, Jehovah/YHVH God WILL create New Heavens and a New Earth ..... BUT, Israel is going to have some blessings BEFORE that marvelous event. This comfort is offered Israel because the VAST majority of Isaiah is explaining how Jehovah is about to punish them severely.

The 1,000 year reign of Jesus is the time period being defined in verses 18-23, and Isa 2, and Eze 40 - 44, and Zech 14, and many others.

John speaks of the NH&E as a place where the Nations are in need of continual Healing.

No, John states that the leaves of the tree WERE for the healing of the nations.... passed tense. These same trees are along the bank of the river that flows out from under Christ's throne, in the 1,000 year reign (Eze 37:12).

Where trees produce fruit every 30 Days. (Revelation 22:2)
Where Just outside the city's gates are Dogs, Sorcerers, Murderers, liars, fornicators, etc (Revelation 22:15)

No, not "just outside the gates" .... rather "without".. with the connotation of excluded.
Notice, the curse has been removed, and there are NO MORE MORTALS. Peter states the new earth is "where righteousness dwells". ALL of this type of people have been destroyed in the lake of fire (Rev 20)

Where the Spirit and Bride call from inside the City to everyone outside the gates who thirst, to "Come freely and drink" (Revelation 22:17)

The summary of the book begins in verse 16, the invitation is NOW ... it is NOT being made after all the wicked have been "burned up".

 

[parousia70]

The 1,000 year reign of Jesus is the time period being defined in verses 18-23, and Isa 2, and Eze 40 - 44, and Zech 14, and many others.

Wait....So you believe Physical Circumcision and blood animal sacrifice will be required of Human beings for Atonement and acceptance By Christ in the Millennium?