Why are we accountable if we did not ask to be exist?

[Saint Beloved]

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[Ygrene Imref]

The argument " I did not ask to be born" is a non-starter right there.
You have to deal with reality, you are born, whether you "asked" to be or not is meaningless.
You were created, you are here. Thus, having being, you are responsible for your actions. There are certain behaviors which are evil no matter what opinions or points of view you may have. If you pursue evil and continue in it, God (and everyone else) has a right to find fault with your bad behavior.

So, how would you respond to people who are born, but refuse to ever have children - given this context?

 

[Saint Beloved]

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[Ygrene Imref]

I used to say that to my parents when I was a teenager.
To be honest now I am ashamed of saying such a thing.
My parents didn't ask to be born either and they never complained about their parents or God to me ever.
I just think its the height of arrogance to say such a thing now. (sorry but I do have some empathy for you) And isn't it the spoilt first world teenagers, who tend to say it? I mean, would Christians in poor countries say it?
Can you imagine if God spoke to us like this before our lives started?
"Now Paul, this is what your life is going to be like. You grow up in a nice first world working class family, not rich but very loving. You will suffer a lot of anxiety and self-doubt throughout your life. Its up to you if you want to make the most of it. Do you want it or not? I've got a spare life as a tortured Chrstian in a Muslim dominated country but you probably wouldn't like that , would you?"

The question is less aboutthe choice of being in "either or" one karmic-like situation, it is about the choice of being at all - especially if it meant having a relationship with the Creator.

 

[Serving Zion]

I don't have a clue what's going on?!#@

Arrrrrrrh!

I had addressed the OP. Christianity is not a game, it is about who has the power of God's name in the world. It is not to be taken lightly, and the state of things is a terrible mess right now.

I am interested in serving the OP's investigation and not joking around. I will serve your investigation too, if you will be serious.

 

[Saint Beloved]

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[Galatea]

Let's come at this from a different perspective. You don't have to be accountable to God, if you so choose.

I don't want to mince words. God is a despot. He is the most benign and loving of despots, but a despot nonetheless. Either you come His way or you choose not to be accountable to Him. If you choose not to be accountable to Him, then you choose Hell and all that it entails (which, I for one, am not convinced we really know the true horror of being separated from God forever).

So He has put the ball squarely in your court. You can choose to be accountable to Him or you can go your own way and choose not to be accountable to Him. He is certainly not going to force you.

"Behold, I stand at the door and knock, if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."

 

[Widlast]

So, how would you respond to people who are born, but refuse to ever have children - given this context?

Given what context? You did not make your point clear.
If you marry, you should have children, if you are capable. If not, so be it.
The main point of marriage is children.

 

[chriscomplex]

I was apologising for derailing the thread.

Toot, toot.

 

[archer75]

I liked your post and I apologize to you and anyone if my post was too harsh. it is definitely my lack of empathy because I have been so lucky in life, that I shouldn't keep others to the same standard. Some people suffer awful mental torment in this life, just thinking about God and religion. For them, maybe religion is more a burden than a relief. I hope you can sort this issue out soon.

Yeah, I didn't mean my post as any kind of harsh response to yours. But what you said here is I guess what I was writing about implicitly. I've been lucky too, in a lot of ways, very unlucky in others. Anyway, no need to repeat what I said, just wanted to offer a perspective, because if you really MEAN "I didn't ask to be born / created just to suffer endless torment," I mean, that's kind of big.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Given what context? You did not make your point clear.
If you marry, you should have children, if you are capable. If not, so be it.
The main point of marriage is children.

You said:

"The argument " I did not ask to be born" is a non-starter right there.
You have to deal with reality, you are born, whether you "asked" to be or not is meaningless.
You were created, you are here. Thus, having being, you are responsible for your actions. There are certain behaviors which are evil no matter what opinions or points of view you may have. If you pursue evil and continue in it, God (and everyone else) has a right to find fault with your bad behavior."

The context is in bold, and underlined. I was asking what you though of someone who, therefore chooses not to have children, likely, and specifically because their children didn't ask, and are bound to a certain standard if born.

 

[Serving Zion]

Right .... so is there an answer? God has yet to tell me... which is why I'm here. Why am I accountable for life if I did not choose it.... I did not buy this car.

The basic answer is like this: the way that you have operated your life has impacted the lives of others. This is why you are accountable for it. Just as a driver of that car is accountable for how he operated the car .. whether he was careless and harmed others with it, or whether he was generous to share the ride with someone who needed a ride.

More detail is given in Matthew 25:31-46, showing that the criteria for drafting is whether we are suitable for sustaining paradise conditions or whether we are rejected because we only have the effect of making the world miserable.

.... Well we only have 100 years max before the recycler has decided to not recycle you. And instead of the plate being thrown away.... it will be placed in an oven.... forever.

All judgement belongs to the son (John 5:22). Do you know what particular reason you have that causes you to distrust Him? Do you think that He is an unfair judge? I really want to help you get comfortable with this. I recognise that you are distressed by the prospect of being rejected, but not having received a real conviction, this distress is revealing that you have believed not what God has told you but what someone has told you in His name, and I am suspecting those ideas as being not accurate. I want to make sure that you have got the right ideas.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

The question is less aboutthe choice of being in "either or" one karmic-like situation, it is about the choice of being at all - especially if it meant having a relationship with the Creator.

fair enough. So being alive as opposed to dead, absolutely dead, no new life, oblivion, unconscious, no torment just nothing, nothing at all. This is why people commit suicide. They think it leads to oblivion, nothing. That's what they want. No more pain. But is that what they get, if they go ahead with it?

 

[cuja1]

fair enough. So being alive as opposed to dead, absolutely dead, no new life, oblivion, unconscious, no torment just nothing, nothing at all. This is why people commit suicide. They think it leads to oblivion, nothing. That's what they want. No more pain. But is that what they get, if they go ahead with it?

I wouldn't bet on it. Even if Pascals wager is a logical fallacy

 

[Ygrene Imref]

fair enough. So being alive as opposed to dead, absolutely dead, no new life, oblivion, unconscious, no torment just nothing, nothing at all. This is why people commit suicide. They think it leads to oblivion, nothing. That's what they want. No more pain. But is that what they get, if they go ahead with it?

Right. I am not so much against those of us that are living now; I do agree with others when they say, "we are here, we have 'X' choices..." And, suicide is a false out.

But, I am more focused on the philosophy of the non-choice of existing altogether - that before we talk about the choices we make in this life to go on, what of the fact that we all have no "perceived" choice in existing in the first place.

I say "perceived," also because I am going to entertain the idea that we may have have some measure of "choice" before existing, although I think that would conflict with His Sovereignty.

 

[chriscomplex]

I believe the Mormons have an answer to this question. We were spirits beforehand, and chose to come to earth. So for them, there was a pre- existence and pre-choice.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

I believe the Mormons have an answer to this question. We were spirits beforehand, and chose to come to earth. So for them, there was a pre- existence and pre-choice.

Hmm...

But there is still the issue of (allegedly) choosing to be part of evil, good, torture, murder, love, wealth, hate, death, life, etc. - and the consequences of that. Did all souls choose to be a part of the good and/or the bad and ugly? Why or why not? And so on...

 

[chriscomplex]

Hmm...

But there is still the issue of (allegedly) choosing to be part of evil, good, torture, murder, love, wealth, hate, death, life, etc. - and the consequences of that. Did all souls choose to be a part of the good and/or the bad and ugly? Why or why not? And so on...

I believe each and every spirit child of God chooses either to follow God or not. Their choice is made in the spirit world before they enter their body's on earth.

Everything was made spiritual first, then the physical universe was created later.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm