My Same State Past Challenge

[crossnote]

Source? As far as I am aware, the oldest is the Rylands fragment, which dates at about 150 AD. Accurate transmission is not the same thing as literal inerrancy.

Inerrancy is God's dept., accurate transmission is man's.
A fragment from Mark 1st Century 80's or 90's.

Earliest New Testament Manuscript Fragment Discovered?

 

[HitchSlap]

They did. Here is just a sample relating to the specifics surrounding Christ's birth.

Bible prophecies fulfilled by birth of Jesus Christ

Sure, let's go with your first one and the amazing prophecy of a virgin birth. Oh wait, the actual word in Isaiah is "alma," which means 'young woman,' and not "virgin."

https://outreachjudaism.org/alma-virgin/

 

[crossnote]

Ultimately, I would hope you begin to critically evaluate claims in general, and specifically in regard to the bible. You've been lead to believe that what you're told from the pulpit is "gospel" truth, when in reality, it's everything but. There's a reason they say no one graduates seminary with their faith intact.

Smoke. I asked what you had to offer in the way of truth claims as an atheist...a non answer.
I grew up under atheism, and found it woefully without substance. I explored many religions and the occult, again lacking answers. I was drawn to Scripture through God's work not anyone behind a pulpit. I never darkened a door of a Church before I gave my life to Christ.

 

[Nat Page]

Why waste your time on an untruth and not go sing to the choir on an atheist board?

We are not wasting time on an untruth we are trying to get the people who believe that untruth to stop believing it.

You say truth is important, what does the atheist have to offer in that regard except to deny claims of others?

We don't deny the claims we are simply asking believers for evidence to back up their claims, if you can't provide evidence then imagine what it would be like if we all started making unsupported claims? yours is already lost amoung the hundreds of other equally invalid God claims from around the world, none of which (I assume) you don't believe either.

 

[Speedwell]

Why waste your time on an untruth and not go sing to the choir on an atheist board?
You say truth is important, what does the atheist have to offer in that regard except to deny claims of others?

Because we're not all atheists.

 

[Speedwell]

Inerrancy is God's dept., accurate transmission is man's.
A fragment from Mark 1st Century 80's or 90's.

Earliest New Testament Manuscript Fragment Discovered?

But the doctrine of literal inerrancy is man's alone.

 

[crossnote]

We are not wasting time on an untruth we are trying to get the people who believe that untruth to stop believing it.

Sounds a bit totalitarian to me.

We don't deny the claims we are simply asking believers for evidence to back up their claims, if you can't provide evidence then imagine what it would be like if we all started making unsupported claims? yours is already lost amoung the hundreds of other God claims from around the world.

I gave you evidence of fulfilled prophecies and eyewitness testimony to the resurrection and miracles.
You have given me zip that supports atheism. At least I offered something, refuse it if you like, but please, running around like you are the Truth Police...sad.

 

[crossnote]

Because we're not all atheists.

I didn't address you with that statement about 'atheists', I addressed the atheist.

 

[Speedwell]

Sounds a bit totalitarian to me.

I gave you evidence of fulfilled prophecies and eyewitness testimony to the resurrection and miracles.
You have given me zip that supports atheism. At least I offered something, refuse it if you like, but please, running around like you are the Truth Police...sad.

That the creation/evolution discussion is necessarily about Christianity v. atheism is the biggest untruth of all.

 

[crossnote]

But the doctrine of literal inerrancy is man's alone.

A Holy and all knowing God wouldn't lie.
If you believe the bible has errors why mess with it?
Most liberal denominations are worse than atheists covering up their deceit with religious garb.

 

[crossnote]

That the creation/evolution discussion is necessarily about Christianity v. atheism is the biggest untruth of all.

Perhaps, but I am not sure how evolution came up.

 

[HitchSlap]

Smoke. I asked what you had to offer in the way of truth claims as an atheist...a non answer.

Everything I've responded with has been "truth." Not sure what you even mean, here.

I grew up under atheism, and found it woefully without substance. I explored many religions and the occult, again lacking answers. I was drawn to Scripture through God's work not anyone behind a pulpit. I never darkened a door of a Church before I gave my life to Christ.

Well, it's obvious you were looking to fill a need in your life, and atheism is not a system of practices and beliefs and doesn't function as a crutch like religions / cults tend to do.

Atheism is a statement on one thing only; lack of belief in god/s.

The rest is up to you.

 

[crossnote]

Sure, let's go with your first one and the amazing prophecy of a virgin birth. Oh wait, the actual word in Isaiah is "alma," which means 'young woman,' and not "virgin."

https://outreachjudaism.org/alma-virgin/

Resorting to Judaism? Funny. Well the Jewish scholars who translated the Hebrew into the Greek Septuagint used the Greek word 'parthenos' παρθένος, which could only mean virgin. Try again. No don't, I am finished discussing with you until you can show your support for atheism. Let's make this an even playing field.

 

[crossnote]

Everything I've responded with has been "truth." Not sure what you even mean, here.

Well, it's obvious you were looking to fill a need in your life, and atheism is not a system of practices and beliefs and doesn't function as a crutch like religions / cults tend to do.

Atheism is a statement on one thing only; lack of belief in god/s.

The rest is up to you.

You mean atheism has no answers.

 

[HitchSlap]

You mean atheism has no answers.

Correct. It's a category position that allows one to view the world as it is, free from religious dogma and supernatural constraints.

"Answers" are not found in ancient religious texts, cults or systems, but rather through life experience, tempered by education, logic, and reason.

I make three basal assumptions:
Reality exists.
We can learn some things about reality.
Falsifiable models with predictive capabilities work better than those without.

 

[Nat Page]

You mean atheism has no answers.

Answers to what exactly? atheism is simply a lack of belief in Gods, atheism is the default position just as not believing in Bigfoot or fairies is the default position, if someone could come up with some evidence for Bigfoot, fairies or Gods then the whole world would change it's mind.
PS. Religions do not have answers either they just claim they have answers and unfortunately some people believe those claims.

 

[HitchSlap]

Resorting to Judaism? Funny. Well the Jewish scholars who translated the Hebrew into the Greek Septuagint used the Greek word 'parthenos' παρθένος, which could only mean virgin. Try again. No don't, I am finished discussing with you until you can show your support for atheism. Let's make this an even playing field.

You missed the point... "betulah" is the Hebrew word for virgin. Hebrew authors would have known the difference, and was only changed by third century religious types who needed a virgin to fit their narrative.

 

[crossnote]

PS. Religions do not have answers either they just claim they have answers and unfortunately some people believe those claims.

True, religions being man's attempt to reach God..that has no answers. But God who reached down to man by becoming a man and revealing Himself in the Person of Jesus Christ IS the Answer.

 

[crossnote]

You missed the point... "betulah" is the Hebrew word for virgin. Hebrew authors would have known the difference, and was only changed by third century religious types who needed a virgin to fit their narrative.

Try again. The Septuagint was written two centuries BEFORE Christ.

 

[bhsmte]

Smoke. I asked what you had to offer in the way of truth claims as an atheist...a non answer.
I grew up under atheism, and found it woefully without substance. I explored many religions and the occult, again lacking answers. I was drawn to Scripture through God's work not anyone behind a pulpit. I never darkened a door of a Church before I gave my life to Christ.

Smoke. I asked what you had to offer in the way of truth claims as an atheist...a non answer.
I grew up under atheism, and found it woefully without substance. I explored many religions and the occult, again lacking answers. I was drawn to Scripture through God's work not anyone behind a pulpit. I never darkened a door of a Church before I gave my life to Christ.

If that works for you, knock yourself out. I grew up a christian and was for most of my life. When i chose to study the NT and christian claims closer, if found it woefully lacking in substance and could no longer reconcile the story, with well evidenced reality.