Why Should People Stay In The Christian Church?

[OpenYourBibles]

I was just reading through a different thread talking about the mass exodus of millennials from the church, and I didn't want to take the topic off subject, so here is a brand new question:

Why should they stay? and not just millennials but anyone, what are they gaining from the church?

I probably spend more time at church than I do at my own house, so I surely have a grasp on the benefits of walking with Christ, but by and large I do not believe many people especially younger people share that same testimony.

I work with a lot of young kids who have been abused while having scriptures thrown at them (I am not talking about physical punishment (i.e. spanking... but physical abuse). Kids who's parents drag them to church on Sunday, and find them a baby sitter so they can go out to the club on Friday night. Parents who come home drunk but sit on the deacon's row. Kids who have seen their parents go to church twice a year and call themselves "christian" why not just quit altogether???

I used to work at a Catholic high school, I am picking out Catholic because this is my experience - I imagine there are plenty other denominations/religions you could use to fill in the blank, who would go to mass before a football game, and emerge out of the chapel doors making comments like, "lets go beat those [staff edit - expletive deleted] guys!" Right after confessing, "to the Almighty God and to you my brothers and sisters that I have sinned" and subsequently asking Mary and the rest of us to "pray for me now and at the hour of my death." The ignorant hypocrisy!

The popular christian practice of the day are phony emotionalism, meant to stir you on Sunday morning or ease your conscious before a football game, just so you can go out and live your life the way you want until next Sunday! There are very few preaching and teaching a real dedication to word of God and holiness. Yet the bible still states... some 2000 years later 1 Peter 1:15 - be ye holy for I am holy and Hebrews 12:14 - without holiness no man shall see the Lord.

So why should they stick around... Who is showing them that it isn't all fake anyway...?

 

[friend of]

We're an overly domesticated and complacent species. Thanks technology!

But yeah, I notice there are not a lot of people around my age group that are at church typically, so it's kind of like I'm hanging around at an old folks home in my spare time... which is kinda not what I want to do right now at this age lol but we live in an age of overstimulation. Period. Why would anyone want to sit still in a crowded pew and listen to someone talk about the bible if they weren't dedicated for their own personal reasons and are there as a result of family tradition? Not to mention how easy and "cool" it is to rag on Christianity these days... It's not a good formula for the future of Christianity.

Very sorry to hear about the young people you work with who get abused by parents who have no concept of how they act toward their own flesh and blood.

 

[OpenYourBibles]

We're an overly domesticated and complacent species. Thanks technology!

But yeah, I notice there are not a lot of people around my age group that are at church typically, so it's kind of like I'm hanging around at an old folks home in my spare time... which is kinda not what I want to do right now at this age lol but we live in an age of overstimulation. Period. Why would anyone want to sit still in a crowded pew and listen to someone talk about the bible if they weren't dedicated for their own personal reasons and are there as a result of family tradition? Not to mention how easy and "cool" it is to rag on Christianity these days... It's not a good formula for the future of Christianity.

Very sorry to hear about the young people you work with who get abused by parents who have no concept of how they act toward their own flesh and blood.

The worst part of all of this is that the church does have so much to offer!

We (our modern genrations) have turned it into this come and sit and listen some guy talk about the Bible. So you are absolutely right to question, "why would anyone want to sit still in a crowded pew and listen to someone..." But flip the page (of your Bible) back to the gospel's and Jesus seems to be a celebrity! People would flock to him in the thousands to "sit still, on the hard ground no less, to here someone teaching about scripture..." what was the difference? what are we missing!? I think a huge part of it is the realness of Jesus, he was healing people, he was rebutting the Sadducees and Pharisees, he was taking the rigidity of the law and exposing the true loving nature of God's commandments! He was doing much more than standing up and reading a few passages.

How many young folks have had a real experience with God... not an emotional Sunday morning cry fest, but a real experience. How many young people have been stressed out to the maximum and had someone wise enough to ask them if they had prayed about it, how many young people have taken their problems to the Lord and watched him work them out for them? How many young people have seen and realized God's protecting hand over their lives. How many young people have received the blessings of God that come from staying in the fight?!

When church isn't real - when it is reduced to "sitting on a crowded pew listening to some guy" it would be foolish to stay!

 

[Albion]

I was just reading through a different thread talking about the mass exodus of millennials from the church, and I didn't want to take the topic off subject, so here is a brand new question:

Why should they stay? and not just millennials but anyone, what are they gaining from the church?

I probably spend more time at church than I do at my own house, so I surely have a grasp on the benefits of walking with Christ, but by and large I do not believe many people especially younger people share that same testimony.

I work with a lot of young kids who have been abused while having scriptures thrown at them (I am not talking about physical punishment (i.e. spanking... but physical abuse). Kids who's parents drag them to church on Sunday, and find them a baby sitter so they can go out to the club on Friday night. Parents who come home drunk but sit on the deacon's row. Kids who have seen their parents go to church twice a year and call themselves "christian" why not just quit altogether???

I used to work at a Catholic high school, I am picking out Catholic because this is my experience - I imagine there are plenty other denominations/religions you could use to fill in the blank, who would go to mass before a football game, and emerge out of the chapel doors making comments like, "lets go beat those [staff edit - expletive deleted] guys!" Right after confessing, "to the Almighty God and to you my brothers and sisters that I have sinned" and subsequently asking Mary and the rest of us to "pray for me now and at the hour of my death." The ignorant hypocrisy!

The popular christian practice of the day are phony emotionalism, meant to stir you on Sunday morning or ease your conscious before a football game, just so you can go out and live your life the way you want until next Sunday! There are very few preaching and teaching a real dedication to word of God and holiness. Yet the bible still states... some 2000 years later 1 Peter 1:15 - be ye holy for I am holy and Hebrews 12:14 - without holiness no man shall see the Lord.

So why should they stick around... Who is showing them that it isn't all fake anyway...?

I can appreciate your concerns, but I have doubts about the reason that these millennials have renounced Christianity or churchgoing being that they think people who are churchgoers and members of Christian churches are not living up to their faith.

 

[OpenYourBibles]

It's because Satan is in total control of their lives now that the millennium reign of Christ has been completed. There is no reason for God to choose anymore believers to put in my path to hear the gospel of God preached to them. Now we wait for the day of the Lord to destroy all man's enemies.

Satan never has been and never will be in complete control of anything! Isaiah 42:8 tells us God will not share his glory with another. Satan has as long of a leash as God gives him, and when the Lord pulls his chain he has to back off!

Furthermore Psalms 51:17 tells us God cannot despise a broken spirit and a contrite heart. God is still saving souls today! Does there appear to be fewer looking for that salvation... absolutely... but God is not done with this world yet!

 

[OpenYourBibles]

I can appreciate your concerns, but I have doubts about the reason that these millennials have renounced Christianity or churchgoing being that they think people who are churchgoers and members of Christian churches are not living up to their faith.

I certainly don't believe I have covered every reason why young folks (even just folks in general) stop coming to church. I think church hypocrisy and the fact that their is no real connection with the church to begin with plays a large roll. And I think the source of that hypocrisy and lack of connection is due in part to the down fall of past generations to pass along the message of Holiness.
But I certainly realize there are many more reasons at work!

 

[friend of]

People would flock to him in the thousands to "sit still, on the hard ground no less, to here someone teaching about scripture..." what was the difference? what are we missing!?

We are too complacent and comfortable to live intrepidly for the Lord?

 

[OpenYourBibles]

We are too complacent and comfortable to live intrepidly for the Lord?

I believe that is the answer for some... but is it that simple??

This brings up another question for me... Why don't people steal? Because it is clearly easier, more convenient and more comfortable than laying down your hard earned money for that candy bar. And I realize there are a lot people that do go ahead and steal, but for those that don't... why not? In my opinion, the same people that answer, because you might get caught and go to jail, also are the ones who are too comfortable and complacent for church. They acknowledge it would be more comfortable to steal but the consequence is too high. But when it comes to church God doesn't strike me down... as a matter of fact I get MORE free time when I stop coming to church. It is more comfortable and there aren't any consequences to speak of!

The other set of people say, I don't steal because it is wrong, because somebody worked hard to get that and they set it out for someone else to buy it. No matter how easy it would be to take it, I won't let myself do that! I think these are the people that fill the church pews, and sort of my question in this whole thread is where do these kind of people come from?!

In my opinion there aren't very many people who are born with or natural obtain this sort of moral code, this drive to know the truth. I think this is something that is taught, and the reason our young people do not have this drive is because it is not taught. When are young people taught that God woke you up this morning, the least you could do is stop by the church and tell him thank you!

 

[Korean-American Christian]

The worst part of all of this is that the church does have so much to offer!

We (our modern genrations) have turned it into this come and sit and listen some guy talk about the Bible.

When church isn't real - when it is reduced to "sitting on a crowded pew listening to some guy" it would be foolish to stay!

I agree that for many people, church has been reduced to "sitting in a crowded pew listening to some guy"

 

[OpenYourBibles]

Perhaps this will be offensive, but...

Jesus said, If I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men unto me.

So for the churches that are seeing people leave in droves, does that suggest Jesus is not in that church???

I am not advocating basing how "right" or "wrong" a church or doctrine is on their membership, the Bible has already cleared up what doctrine is right and what beliefs are wrong. I realize Jesus had but 12 disciples and one of them betrayed him. I also realize scripture says broad is the way that leads to destruction but narrow is the gate that leadeth to life and few there be that find it. I also realize the Bible speaks of a generation having itching ears with no stomach to digest sincere truth...

But in the midst of all of that, if Jesus said he would draw, but a church is having the opposite effect... is there a conflict there?

I believe if 5 leave but 1 comes to be saved that is still a drawing ministry, so I'm not comparing numbers, but the principle. If no one is being drawn, does that say something?

 

[FireDragon76]

And I think the source of that hypocrisy and lack of connection is due in part to the down fall of past generations to pass along the message of Holiness.

More like many Christians make that "holiness" stifling and unattractive. I don't blame young people for being turned off by the purity culture of many Christians. Purity culture sends the message that your worth is tied to your performance, and since everybody has a bit of garbage in their life, it's a losing proposition to feel bad about yourself all the time. It's like putting a cockroach in a glass of water, researchers have shown nobody drinks from the water even if its passed through multiple filters.

 

[OpenYourBibles]

More like many Christians make that "holiness" stifling and unattractive. I don't blame young people for being turned off by the purity culture of many Christians. Purity culture sends the message that your worth is tied to your performance, and since everybody has a bit of garbage in their life, it's a losing proposition to feel bad about yourself all the time. It's like putting a cockroach in a glass of water, researchers have shown nobody drinks from the water even if its passed through multiple filters.

Maybe we are saying the same thing here that, some people have diluted the message. But for me one of the biggest draws to Christianity is that I know I have more than just "a bit of garbage" in my life, but Jesus promises me he will not only clean that up but take me to places I cannot even fathom!

Jesus, his disciples, Paul, and other NT writers (and OT writers for that matter) preached holiness as an attainable goal, they preached coming out and being separate, and yet people came in droves, I cannot fathom that it is the same message that is driving people away now. Yes a hypocritical diluted version of that message will drive people away... and that is what I am saying if churches are preaching the true word of God and standing up and crying aloud Jesus promised he would DRAW all men, not lead them out!

 

[FireDragon76]

On the contrary, most churches don't clearly preach the Gospel, which is the forgiveness of sins and eternal life, freely given to sinners. They preach anything else but that. They preach about the suppossed benefits of a stiffling holiness that shuns all earthly realities. Nobody can live up to that. God's law always condemns without the clarity of the Gospel.

 

[OpenYourBibles]

On the contrary, most churches don't clearly preach the Gospel, which is the forgiveness of sins and eternal life, freely given to sinners.

Who is going to hell then?

And what do we make of 1 Peter 1:15, Phillipians 4:13, Hebrews 12:14, etc...

I agree we cannot earn our way into heaven, but God has given us power (Acts 1:8 & Luke 24:49) to fulfill his commandments including living holy!

 

[FireDragon76]

Who is going to hell then?

Why is that important? All I know is that God's grace is sufficient for me.

I agree we cannot earn our way into heaven, but God has given us power (Acts 1:8 & Luke 24:49) to fulfill his commandments including living holy!

No, as a Lutheran I deny that sinless perfection is possible in this life. Other than that, I see nothing I would disagree with.

 

[OpenYourBibles]

Why is that important? All I know is that God's grace is sufficient for me.
No, as a Lutheran I deny that sinless perfection is possible in this life. Other than that, I see nothing I would disagree with.

I ask about hell simply because of your statement, "preach the Gospel, which is the forgiveness of sins and eternal life, freely given to sinners." Which makes me wonder if "eternal life" is "freely given to sinners" why does hell even exist... who is going there? Of course we know there are people on their way to hell, so how have they made themselves eligible for such a judgement if the Gospel does indeed preach that eternal life is promised to sinners. Rather John 3:16 tells us that God love the WHOLE WORLD so much that he gave his only begotten son, (but then there is a qualifier added) that whosoever will believe on him shall be saved. That love of the world and the gift of his only begotten son does not profit those that do not believe.

Phillipians 4:13 clearly states, I can do ALL THINGS through Christ which strengthens me. How then does anything become impossible including living a Holy life!

This doctrine that you speak of is the same poison that I believe has corrupted our youth. "Do anything you want, because God's grace covers all sinners!" So why strive to live holy, why press towards the mark of the high calling, why walk worthy of my vocation, why keep coming to church if God's grace is going to cover me anyways! God is love, but he promised us that there is going to come a day when he is the judge and he knows how to deliver the Godly out of temptation and reserve the unjust unto that day of judgement! That is right out of your Bible - so who is that judgement for if everyone is covered by grace!

 

[FireDragon76]

I ask about hell simply because of your statement, "preach the Gospel, which is the forgiveness of sins and eternal life, freely given to sinners." Which makes me wonder if "eternal life" is "freely given to sinners" why does hell even exist... who is going there?

Hell is not a literal place necessarily.

Lutheranism is not about abstract philosophical speculation, it's purely spiritual and much more subjectively oriented towards answering "Who is God for me?". So not knowing things like the number of the damned is not an issue that I think we need to be very concerned about. It's like asking how many angels fit on the head of a pin, as far as I'm concerned.

This doctrine that you speak of is the same poison that I believe has corrupted our youth. "Do anything you want, because God's grace covers all sinners!"

That's sort of what we believe, but misses the mark. We are free to love God and love our neighbor, because we have been justified in Christ.

 

[OpenYourBibles]

Jesus

Hell is not a literal place necessarily.

Lutheranism is not about abstract philosophical speculation, it's purely spiritual and much more subjectively oriented towards answering "Who is God for me?". So not knowing things like the number of the damned is not an issue that I think we need to be very concerned about. It's like asking how many angels fit on the head of a pin, as far as I'm concerned.

That's sort of what we believe, but misses the mark. We are free to love God and love our neighbor, because we have been justified in Christ.

Jesus speaks in Matthew 7:21 and says:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

What is very clear here is that it is not possible to "earn" your way to heaven, but also that there is something - that disqualified these individuals from entering into the kingdom of heaven in fact Jesus says he will tell them to "depart from me" in modern terms "get away from me!" That is God the judge.

Revelations 3:15 tells us to be cold or hot and not to create our own position - Lukewarm. If in fact we choose to be Lukewarm God says he will spue us out of his mouth, vomit us up! These individuals, because of the condition of their heart, and the actions produced by that condition have been rejected by God.

Hebrews 12:15 tells us to Look Diligently lest any man fail the grace of God! - How can we "fail the grace of God" if as you say - the gospel is eternal life for all sinners.

Whether hell is real or metaphoric it is clearly a place that is set aside for those who choose not to believe in the word of God. As the scriptures above clearly illustrate God's love does not cover us to do whatever we want! For indeed Isaiah 5:14 tells us hell has enlarged itself to fit all of the people who are bound and determined to earn a place there.

 

[mnphysicist]

This brings up another question for me... Why don't people steal? Because it is clearly easier, more convenient and more comfortable than laying down your hard earned money for that candy bar. And I realize there are a lot people that do go ahead and steal, but for those that don't... why not? In my opinion, the same people that answer, because you might get caught and go to jail, also are the ones who are too comfortable and complacent for church. They acknowledge it would be more comfortable to steal but the consequence is too high.

This is first order behaviorism, it does work for some people, it can work for others for a short period of time as its generally not long term sustainable, and it won't work at all for others. Its failure is why some folks play revolving doors with the criminal justice system.

But when it comes to church God doesn't strike me down... as a matter of fact I get MORE free time when I stop coming to church. It is more comfortable and there aren't any consequences to speak of!

When one looks at Catholic church attendance stats, you see how adding consequences fails to bring about sustainable results.

The other set of people say, I don't steal because it is wrong, because somebody worked hard to get that and they set it out for someone else to buy it. No matter how easy it would be to take it, I won't let myself do that!

This comes from within... and generally is sustainable for most, but not all people, some folks won't get it, and some people can only operate in a 1st order behavioristic model. Usually it comes about due to self or community derived morality as contrasted with dictated morality. The challenge with derived morals, as they often times result in a narrower path than what the scriptures teach. Ie, culture derived that slavery is bad, that churches need to report sexual abuse to law enforcement etc. This is also an issue where in some atheists with self or community derived morality will view Christian morality as seriously lacking

In my opinion there aren't very many people who are born with or natural obtain this sort of moral code, this drive to know the truth. I think this is something that is taught, and the reason our young people do not have this drive is because it is not taught.

Perhaps you are onto something with this. Christianity for the most part operates under a dictated morality from God, so we tell people not to steal, we tell them of earthly and heavenly consequences... we don't teach deriving morality. Its hard to do, and it can also bring about stances counter to long standing traditions. The other challenge is what about folks who can only operate under a behavioristic model? Alas, I do find the idea a fascinating one.

When are young people taught that God woke you up this morning, the least you could do is stop by the church and tell him thank you!

This could easily come across as an external motivator, rather than one from within... if external, it likely won't last for a lot of people.

 

[mnphysicist]

Perhaps this will be offensive, but...

Jesus said, If I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men unto me.

So for the churches that are seeing people leave in droves, does that suggest Jesus is not in that church???

I don't think so... where-ever 2 or 3 are gathered Jesus is there. There is a popular radio preacher who is big time into works righteousness, albeit he went so far to write a multi-hundred page book saying his theology is not works righteousness... which when you read it clearly is advocating exactly that. And while he is in error, I am certain Jesus is very much present in his church and ministry.

Rather, after bugging lots of millenials and others leaving the church over the years, I tend to think contemporary Christian society has embraced a flip of the greatest commandment. (And its not just contemporary... I think we've had a few things backwards going all the way back to the early church fathers.

From Matthew 22

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Loving God with all your heart, soul, and mind can be a pretty abstract thing and hard to get ones head around. Loving ones neighbor is a very difficult thing and it can also be pretty abstract at times. The law and the prophets on the other hand are very simple in comparison. Thus, its a very easy thing to fall into a focus on the law and prophets and giving a pass for the most part on loving ones neighbor, and even loving God. Consider that many churches have a morality focus, and don't effectively show, much less truly love visitors to their church. Consider that many churches know more about politics than they do the understandings behind the Nicene Creed. We try and address the greatest commandment from the law and prophet side... rather than doing it first, and letting the law and prophets proceed from it.