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Oh how one day a friend tomorrow a foe
Maybe you had a hidden agenda
Weren't you the one who pm'd ne
Thank you for speaking respectfully of us Jews. I think well of you as well.How dare you speak for the hearts of other people as if you know and understand what the believer born of HIS SPIRIT actually think of and desire for their older brother, the Jew
Hi Jerry. Glad that you have joined the conversation.1. Israel as a physical nation did not enter into the New Covenant from Jeremiah's prophecy. Why? Because if they had the KoH reign would have started and each man wouldn't have had to be taught of God etc.
You are correct that there are two meanings of the KoH.2. Jesus had to proclaim the KoH and the KoG message for the Jews were promised the physical KoH 2 Samuel 7:13.
It was conditional v14 but eternal in verse 15.
So nothing can do away with the eternal covenant of the KoH for the Jews.
Paul affirms this in the New Covenant era in Roman's 11-29.
Thank you for speaking respectfully of us Jews. I think well of you as well.
I'm not sure where or how I have done what you claim. Can you please exactly the sentence that is offensive to you and explain why it does what you say? I was very careful to note that there are Christians who believe in Supersessionism who are not Jew haters.
As a Jew, I have certainly run into antisemitism, from verbal, to being personally accosted, to having people I know being assaulted, to having friends of friends being killed. The antisemitism here in the West has its roots in Supersessionism.
Yet you believe and even encourage reinstating sacrifices in the templeThank you for speaking respectfully of us Jews. I think well of you as well.
I'm not sure where or how I have done what you claim. Can you please exactly the sentence that is offensive to you and explain why it does what you say? I was very careful to note that there are Christians who believe in Supersessionism who are not Jew haters.
As a Jew, I have certainly run into antisemitism, from verbal, to being personally accosted, to having people I know being assaulted, to having friends of friends being killed. The antisemitism here in the West has its roots in Supersessionism.
Please explain who GOD has turned over to unbeliefHi Jerry. Glad that you have joined the conversation.
The Torah never promised eternal life. It was a different sort of Covenant.
However, Rabbinical Jews are still saved, per Paul in Romans 11:28 "as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs." So although the Covenant does not save them, God's love for the patriarchs does.
Nor is there either a holy high priest or a holy offeringStart with some definitions: What is replacement theology? | CARM Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry
Then answer the hard questions:
Question: "What is replacement theology / supersessionism?"
Answer:
"Replacement" theology (also known as supersessionism) essentially teaches different views of the relationship between the ""Church"" (Body of Christ) and NATION ""Israel""...
ONE view: the ""Church"" is completely different and distinct from NATION ""Israel""
The view that ""Israel"" and the ""Church"" are different is clearly taught in the NT.
Biblically speaking...the two are never to be confused or used interchangeably.
...the ""Church"" is an entirely new creation that came into being on the day of Pentecost and
will continue until it is taken to heaven at the "rapture"
(FOR "RAPTURO" SEE: Matthew 24: 29-31; Ephesians 1:9-11; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17; 1 Thessalonians 1:7 ).
The "Church" has no relationship to the curses and blessings for "Israel". The covenants, promises, and warnings are valid only for "Israel". NATION "Israel" has been temporarily set aside in God's program during these past 2000 years of dispersion.
(due to NATIONAL AND spiritual rejection of Jesus as the Divine Messiah)
Matthew 23:37 [ Jesus' Lament over His people]
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and
you were unwilling!
After the "rapturo", God will restore "Israel" as the primary focus of His plan.
The first event at this time is the "tribulation" (Matthew 24; Revelation chapters 6-19).
The world will be judged for rejecting Christ, while NATION "Israel" is prepared through the trials of the "great tribulation"
for the "Second Coming" of the Messiah. Then, when Christ does return to the earth, at the end of the tribulations,
"Israel" will be ready to receive Him.
The remnant of "Israel" which survives the tribulation will be saved. Jesus the King / Lord will establish His kingdom on this earth with Jerusalem as its capital.
With Christ reigning as King for 1000 years,
"Israel" will be the leading nation, and representatives from all nations will come to Jerusalem
to honor and worship the King—Jesus the Christ, The Divine Messiah.
The "Church" will return with Christ and will reign with Him for a literal thousand years (Revelation 20:1-5).
The "Church" has not replaced "Israel" in God's plan.
While God may be focusing His attention primarily on the "Church" in this dispensation / age of grace,
God has not forgotten "Israel" and will one day restore "Israel"
to His intended role as the NATION He has chosen (Romans chapters 9-11).
What is replacement theology / supersessionism? ...edited and placement of emphasis is MINE
Q: Where did God specify that a rejection of the Divine Messiah by Israel would negate His promises/covenants?
A: The Denial Did Not NEGATE!...only temporarily suspend the fulfilling....Never a Rejection of His Chosen People!
Check out Romans 11!....Israel Is Not Cast Away
11 I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be!
For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew....
there has also come to be at the present time a REMNANT according to God’s gracious choice.
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works,
otherwise grace is no longer grace...
11...But by their (Israel's) transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous.
12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles,
how much more will their fulfillment be!...
22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God;
to those who fell, severity,
but to you, (saved Jews) God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness;
otherwise you also will be CUT OFF....
25...a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
26 and so all Israel WILL BE saved;..
28...but from the standpoint of God’s choice
they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;
29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Psalm 118:22
The stone (Jesus) which the builders (Jews/Israel) rejected Has become the chief corner stone.(of the Church)
Matthew 21
42 Jesus said to them, ( chief priests and the elders of the Jews) “Did you never read in the Scriptures,
‘ The stone which the builders rejected,
This became the chief corner stone;
This came about from the Lord,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’?
43 Therefore I say to you,
the kingdom of God (Jesus the Christ) will be taken away from you and (be) given to a people (non-Jewish Nation) , producing the fruit of it.
44 And he who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; (tribes scattered and unsaved)
but on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust.” (death)
45 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them.
46 When they sought to seize Him (for claiming to be Messiah),
they feared the people, because they considered Him to be a prophet.
Jeremiah 33:26
then I would reject the descendants of Jacob and David My servant, not taking from his descendants rulers over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
But I will restore their fortunes and will have mercy on them.’”
Q: Is Christianity inherently anti-Jewish?
A: No.
The Hebrew Nation is God's chosen peoples ...with whom he has conditional covenants.
God is not finished with them yet. Read their prophets.
Jesus the God-Man miraculously came out of the Israel blood line.
His word and example was presented to all through His miraculous ministry.
The religious Jewish leadership of His time rejected Him.
They resented Jesus' claims of being Messiah / God.
They conspired to kill him...to have the Roman authority execute Him.
The gospel verbally spread by "oral tradtion" after starting at Pentecost...no Bible needed.
It was offered first to the Jew, then Samaritans, then Gentiles.
And it remains being offered today...to all.
God is patient and wants all to be saved through His loving provisions.
Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to EVERYONE who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.(non-Israel NATIONS)
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized (spiritually) into ONE body, (Body of Christ - "CHURCH")
whether Jews or Greeks,
whether slaves or free,
and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek,
there is neither slave nor free man,
there is neither male nor female;
for you are all ONE in Christ Jesus.
God (YHWH) is the ONE TRUE GOD for Jews.
God (YHWH) is the ONE TRUE GOD for Christ-followers also.
We spiritually perceive Him as 3 spiritually discernible PERSONS by function...ONE TRUE GOD in spiritual essence... the mysterious 3***1.
Jesus:..."...before Abraham, "I AM"...
Christ-followers are under the "New Covenant".
Jesus clarified, confirmed, and fulfilled portions of the Old Mosaic Law. We are in the Age of Grace, not Law / legalism,
There is no longer a Levitical law binding on us, It was FULFILLED by Jesus the Christ.
There are no Judges nor Kings nor OT heroes temporarily indwelt by God the Holy Spirit.
ALL believers are permanently indwelt by God the Holy Spirit at the time of their salvation.
He has Risen! Pentecost has come! The Cross and resurrection, appearances, and ascension changed EVERYTHING!
The NT is the final and binding end of the OT. Understand the OT. Live by the NT.
Which man?YOU:KoH that is within each of us when we individually, through the grace of God, obey our Heavenly Father.
ME: Obedience does not "SAVE". That is a belief in "works". John 3 requires a spiritual CHANGE from a dead spirit to a spirit born again from above. Jesus the God-Man was the ONLY divine KoH / KoG sent down from above to save Mankind...substitutionary atonement! God calls the spirit of man to salvation. Man can either accept and live ...or... reject and die.
Understand your position.I completely understand. In no way am i trying to say that Christian anti-Semitism can be entirely pinned on Chrysostom or Luther, even though they are the two most virulent of all. My main point in this thread is that Christian antisemitism grows naturally out of supersessionism.
You are correct that there are two meanings of the KoH.
Just as Christians evangelize to spread the inner kingdom from person to person, Jews are constantly seeking to bring the kingdom to all the earth. We call it "Tikkun Olam:" repair of the World. It involves:
- In Judaism it is earthly. The stars obey God. The angels obey God. When mankind also obeys God, His kingdom will have come on earth. This is why Jesus prayed, "Thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven."
- But there is also a KoH that is within each of us when we individually, through the grace of God, obey our Heavenly Father.
Of course, the pinnacle of the KoH will finally be reached during the messianic age, according to both Jews and Christians.
- First of all, teaching ethical monotheism to all the world
- In addition to basic right and wrong, it involves teaching Tzedakah (Charity, Social Justice) to the world: compassion for the poor, the sick, the old, the children, the oppressed... Mostly by example (per capita, Jews are the greatest givers to charities).
- And it means striving for just benevolent governments, just as Ancient Israel was under Moshe.
Not getting itYou: Nor is there either a holy high priest nor a holy offering
Me: Hebrews etc has the "High Priest" answer:
Hebrews 2:17
Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
[ Jesus Our High Priest ] Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession;
Hebrews 4:14
Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
The FINAL blood sacrifice, once for ALL:
Hebrews 10:19
[ A New and Living Way ] Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus,
Hebrews 12:24
and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.
Hebrews 13:20
[ Benediction ] Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord,
Revelation 1:5
and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood—