Supersessionism and Antisemitism

miknik5

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They'll come in at the last hour. And they will be first

Because when their eyes and ears are opened they will be pure

It's those who entered into the LORD's WORK in the early hours who are weathered and worn
 
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Paul Yohannan

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How dare you speak for the hearts of other people as if you know and understand what the believer born of HIS SPIRIT actually think of and desire for their older brother, the Jew

Rabinnical Judaism in its present form postdates Christianity by centuries. It is not the same religion that existed in the time of Christ.
 
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miknik5

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Rabinnical Judaism in its present form postdates Christianity by centuries. It is not the same religion that existed in the time of Christ.
Because they have resorted to men (of some sort of self declared spiritual stature) telling them what GOD said and meant by HIS WORD?
 
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jerry kelso

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Some portions of the covenant are unconditional, made to Abraham, such as his descendants having the Promised Land. Other parts, as per what God said to Moses, are conditional, such as the right to live on the Land is connected with observance of the Torah. For example, there was a time Israel kept resorting to idolatry, and God sent her into captivity. But the Promised Land still belonged to Israel and she could return to it. IOW, The land is always Israel's, even when they live in exile due to not keeping the Law.

No where does it say that God would violate the Covenant in general, since it does not specify conditions where that would happen. No where does it ever say that if Israel rejects the Messiah (which she only does because God places a veil over her eyes) that God would cancel her covenant. This idea is a heresy of Supersessionism.

open heart,

1. Israel as a physical nation did not enter into the New Covenant from Jeremiah's prophecy. Why? Because if they had the KoH reign would have started and each man wouldn't have had to be taught of God etc.

2. Jesus had to proclaim the KoH and the KoG message for the Jews were promised the physical KoH 2 Samuel 7:13.
It was conditional v14 but eternal in verse 15.
So nothing can do away with the eternal covenant of the KoH for the Jews.
Paul affirms this in the New Covenant era in Roman's 11-29.

3. The KoG message in its spiritual aspect was about repentance Luke 17:20.
Jesus said he came to seek that which was lost. The two kingdoms lost were the physical and spiritual when Adam and Eve sinned for they were kicked out of the garden of which the physically ruled and became sinners in need of a Savior.
Both Kingdoms are part of the redemptive plan of God.

4. It was never prophesied that Israel would accept Christ as Messiah and Matthew 23:37-39 proves this.
In the overall historical Jewish context the KoH and the KoG are not a message to the church or for the NC church today concerning the earthly calling of Israel's land Matthew 5:5 which connects with Genesis 12-15.
Matthew 4:17 Repent for the KoH is at hand is all about the physical kingdom they were promised 2 Samuel 7:13, Isaiah 2:2-4, 9:6-7, etc. on the condition of obedience. In this case they had to repent for they were backslidden from the Old covenant.

5. The NC came in because it was prophesied in Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Isaiah 53 is an example of the suffering Savior the Jews missed and even in Luke 1:25-32 Simeon holding Jesus in his arms and said he saw the salvation of the Lord, prepared before the Jews, a light to the Gentiles and the Glory of the people Israel.
The church was predestined and the whole world had to be saved John 3:16.
Because of Israel's rejection Roman's 11 the church is to make the nation of Israel jealous for God in order to fulfill her covenant promises of the land and the kingdom.
The 1st century church which was mostly Jewish and didn't understand the mystery of the church church until Peter and the vision of the clean and unclean 8-10 years after the Day of Pentecost.
The early church was not a restart of the KoH and the KoG for Israel as told by Jesus Acts 1:6-7.

6. Today, Israel is still backslidden as a nation for many are even atheists.
They have to be purged Daniel 9:24-27. Daniel 12:1-2 Jacob's trouble Matthew 24:15-21 Daniel's AOD tied into Jacob's trouble.
Then Messiah will take over kingdoms of this world Revelation 11:15 and Israel will become a nation in one day for Zion will bring forth her Children Isaiah 66:6-9.

7. As far as the Old Covenant it was fulfilled by Christ Matthew 5:17.
Because of the weaknesses; not the morals of God, but such things as the law of sin sin and death taking advantage of the law of Moses and the weakness of the priesthood and the specific blessing and cursing system which connects with the civil law etc. it had to be abolished 2 Corinthians 3-13-16.
This is why Moses had the veil over his face so Israel could not see.
The law was Israel's whole identity in their relationship and accepting salvation and receiving the promised land and the kingdom when they will be at the head of the nations and the law will go forth from Zion Isaiah 2:2-4.

8. Today is the church age of the mystery of the church of Jews and gentiles.
Jews can still be Jews culturally. There are many commandments that cannot be done because of the Old covenant being abolished not modified 2 Corinthians 3:1-16.
The law of Moses was the law of God and mediated by angels and came because of sin and was till the seed should come which was Messiah Galatians 3:19.
Abraham's promises of salvation according to the New Covenant context could not be hindered by the law of Moses which was temporary.
The abolishment of the Old Covenant of Moses law does not destroy the Jewish way of life.
The law was forever but not Moses under the ethic or context of the Old Covenant.
If a Jew wants to use the term Moses law is in effect it would have to be according to the New Covenant context.
Gentiles were never under the law of Moses at all but at the same time many live under the spirit of the law mentality of the Old Covenant Roman's 7.
Paul showed the law of thou shall not was Holy and Good Roman's 7:7.
Newness of the Spirit, not in the oldness of the letter Roman's 7:6 is an illusion to abolishment which connects with the context of the chapter.
A woman is bound to the law till her husband dies. If she goes to another then she commits adultery verses 1-3. Verse 4; the body of Christ is to be dead to the law of Moses and alive to the NC which was the finished work of Christ.
This didn't mean that the law was sinful for it showed the knowledge of sin by the commandments verse7.
Sin was dead without the law and this showed the weakness of "thou shalt not" to help perform the commandment leaving room for the law of sin and death to take advantage of "thou shalt not" and cause more self effort than overcoming. This is why the law of sin and death had to be done away with by the law of the Spirit Roman's 8:2.
This is why the weaknesses have to understood as what they are and then it would be understood why it had to be replaced with better promises.
The Jews had to do something to attain something in order to become who they were according the law of commandments under Moses ethic and rule of life
The church is to be who they are in Christ as the reason for doing the commandments under the New Covenant of the law of Christ and the power of his finished work of Christ at the cross and his resurrection which is our rule of life.

9. In conclusion, the Old and new covenants cannot be the rule of life in their full context of ethical rule of life across the board.
The Old Covenant law and New Covenant of law of liberty are close in relation because of Moral laws and at opposite ends of the polars because of the mechanics of the covenant that affect the ethical rule of life. Jerry kelso
 
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miknik5

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open heart,

1. Israel as a physical nation did not enter into the New Covenant from Jeremiah's prophecy. Why? Because if they had the KoH reign would have started and each man wouldn't have had to be taught of God etc.

2. Jesus had to proclaim the KoH and the KoG message for the Jews were promised the physical KoH 2 Samuel 7:13.
It was conditional v14 but eternal in verse 15.
So nothing can do away with the eternal covenant of the KoH for the Jews.
Paul affirms this in the New Covenant era in Roman's 11-29.

3. The KoG message in its spiritual aspect was about repentance Luke 17:20.
Jesus said he came to seek that which was lost. The two kingdoms lost were the physical and spiritual when Adam and Eve sinned for they were kicked out of the garden of which the physically ruled and became sinners in need of a Savior.
Both Kingdoms are part of the redemptive plan of God.

4. It was never prophesied that Israel would accept Christ as Messiah and Matthew 23:37-39 proves this.
In the overall historical Jewish context the KoH and the KoG are not a message to the church or for the NC church today concerning the earthly calling of Israel's land Matthew 5:5 which connects with Genesis 12-15.
Matthew 4:17 Repent for the KoH is at hand is all about the physical kingdom they were promised 2 Samuel 7:13, Isaiah 2:2-4, 9:6-7, etc. on the condition of obedience. In this case they had to repent for they were backslidden from the Old covenant.

5. The NC came in because it was prophesied in Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Isaiah 53 is an example of the suffering Savior the Jews missed and even in Luke 1:25-32 Simeon holding Jesus in his arms and said he saw the salvation of the Lord, prepared before the Jews, a light to the Gentiles and the Glory of the people Israel.
The church was predestined and the whole world had to be saved John 3:16.
Because of Israel's rejection Roman's 11 the church is to make the nation of Israel jealous for God in order to fulfill her covenant promises of the land and the kingdom.
The 1st century church which was mostly Jewish and didn't understand the mystery of the church church until Peter and the vision of the clean and unclean 8-10 years after the Day of Pentecost.
The early church was not a restart of the KoH and the KoG for Israel as told by Jesus Acts 1:6-7.

6. Today, Israel is still backslidden as a nation for many are even atheists.
They have to be purged Daniel 9:24-27. Daniel 12:1-2 Jacob's trouble Matthew 24:15-21 Daniel's AOD tied into Jacob's trouble.
Then Messiah will take over kingdoms of this world Revelation 11:15 and Israel will become a nation in one day for Zion will bring forth her Children Isaiah 66:6-9.

7. As far as the Old Covenant it was fulfilled by Christ Matthew 5:17.
Because of the weaknesses; not the morals of God, but such things as the law of sin sin and death taking advantage of the law of Moses and the weakness of the priesthood and the specific blessing and cursing system which connects with the civil law etc. it had to be abolished 2 Corinthians 3-13-16.
This is why Moses had the veil over his face so Israel could not see.
The law was Israel's whole identity in their relationship and accepting salvation and receiving the promised land and the kingdom when they will be at the head of the nations and the law will go forth from Zion Isaiah 2:2-4.

8. Today is the church age of the mystery of the church of Jews and gentiles.
Jews can still be Jews culturally. There are many commandments that cannot be done because of the Old covenant being abolished not modified 2 Corinthians 3:1-16.
The law of Moses was the law of God and mediated by angels and came because of sin and was till the seed should come which was Messiah Galatians 3:19.
Abraham's promises of salvation according to the New Covenant context could not be hindered by the law of Moses which was temporary.
The abolishment of the Old Covenant of Moses law does not destroy the Jewish way of life.
The law was forever but not Moses under the ethic or context of the Old Covenant.
If a Jew wants to use the term Moses law is in effect it would have to be according to the New Covenant context.
Gentiles were never under the law of Moses at all but at the same time many live under the spirit of the law mentality of the Old Covenant Roman's 7.
Paul showed the law of thou shall not was Holy and Good Roman's 7:7.
Newness of the Spirit, not in the oldness of the letter Roman's 7:6 is an illusion to abolishment which connects with the context of the chapter.
A woman is bound to the law till her husband dies. If she goes to another then she commits adultery verses 1-3. Verse 4; the body of Christ is to be dead to the law of Moses and alive to the NC which was the finished work of Christ.
This didn't mean that the law was sinful for it showed the knowledge of sin by the commandments verse7.
Sin was dead without the law and this showed the weakness of "thou shalt not" to help perform the commandment leaving room for the law of sin and death to take advantage of "thou shalt not" and cause more self effort than overcoming. This is why the law of sin and death had to be done away with by the law of the Spirit Roman's 8:2.
This is why the weaknesses have to understood as what they are and then it would be understood why it had to be replaced with better promises.
The Jews had to do something to attain something in order to become who they were according the law of commandments under Moses ethic and rule of life
The church is to be who they are in Christ as the reason for doing the commandments under the New Covenant of the law of Christ and the power of his finished work of Christ at the cross and his resurrection which is our rule of life.

9. In conclusion, the Old and new covenants cannot be the rule of life in their full context of ethical rule of life across the board.
The Old Covenant law and New Covenant of law of liberty are close in relation because of Moral laws and at opposite ends of the polars because of the mechanics of the covenant that affect the ethical rule of life. Jerry kelso
....
 
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miknik5

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The promise to Abraham was to many nations
And the promise to Abraham that he would be the father of many Nations came before Abraham had done anything required under the law

GOD commanded Abraham to circumcise himself and his house
That outward covenant mark came after GOD had already promised Abraham
 
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miknik5

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The woman at the well. A Samaritan gentile who clung to Jacobs well as her lifeline to GOD showed that her older brothers, the Jew, was not giving her water

GOD from the beginning called HIS FIRST CHOSEN to be a light to all peoples (all along GOD was looking for GODLY offspring) and HE told the Jew to not treat a foreigner as a foreigner

Anyone who wished to celebrate THE PASSOVER needed to be circumcised

Ezekiel 34 and 36 showed that GOD took back the work
 
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FireDragon76

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While modern Lutherans do not accept Luther's abusive remarks towards the Jewish people, I think it is safe to say that something like what 2PhiloVoid is saying is implicit in the Law-Gospel distinction. The Law condemns whether you are Jew or gentile.
 
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miknik5

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While modern Lutherans do not accept Luther's abusive remarks towards the Jewish people, I think it is safe to say that something like what 2PhiloVoid is saying is implicit in the Law-Gospel distinction. The Law condemns whether you are Jew or gentile.
None will be justified by the law (romans 3:20)

What the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by sinful flesh GOD did by sending HIS SON
 
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Open Heart

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When people in general die, which covenant will save them. Take for example, a Jew who dies under the old covenant and another Jew who dies under the new covenant.

Which Jew is saved?
I can find nowhere in the Torah that eternal life is promised.

On the other hand, in Romans 11:28, Paul states that "but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs." So they are saved, even though they do not believe, not because of the Covenant, but for love of the Patriarchs.
 
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Open Heart

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Ignoring of course the antisemitism put into practice by the Church before and after Luther. That was my point. Not defending his writings, but I did put them in the proper context of centuries of Church persecution.

Your OP mentions one church father and then dog.dot.dot. Luther.dot.dot.dot Hitler.

A lot more to the story. Luther was a product of his Catholic environment.
I completely understand. In no way am i trying to say that Christian anti-Semitism can be entirely pinned on Chrysostom or Luther, even though they are the two most virulent of all. My main point in this thread is that Christian antisemitism grows naturally out of supersessionism.
 
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