Should flag burners lose citizenship?

Do you agree with the president elect's tweet?


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GoldenBoy89

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Sure. Anyone protesting by burning a US flag loses all government paid benefits..unemployment, food stamps, tax deductions, etc..It's a good start anyway. Its not illegal to burn the flag in protest, but you receive a consequence for doing it in relation to the government.
I'm assuming this wouldn't apply to the fellas at the local VFW post or the Boy Scouts when they ceremoniously burn a flag, right? I doubt you'd want to punish those fine patriots, for no reason.

So then you set up your protest to appear like a proper disposal ceremony of a worn out flag.

Loophole found, problem solved.
 
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Speedwell

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I'm assuming this wouldn't apply to the fellas at the local VFW post or the Boy Scouts when they ceremoniously burn a flag, right? I doubt you'd want to punish those fine patriots, for no reason.

So then you set up your protest to appear like a proper disposal ceremony of a worn out flag.

Loophole found, problem solved.
And if it was done in a solemn, respectful manner there are veterans groups, and sympathetic dignitaries who would attend and it might attract media-worthy intervention from the Right and even (if there was a flag law) from the police.

An altogether happy suggestion which we must credit to Chesterton.
 
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Aryeh

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And our government, under Trump, would seek to punish motives, not actions.

Thought Police, anyone?

Franz Kafka...

George Orwell...


Ironicly, the disagreed on how the world would be controlled by big brother et al. The fact that this WOULD happen was indisputably agreed upon by both.

"They're talking about things of which they don't have the slightest understanding, anyway. It's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves."

"No," said the priest, "you don't need to accept everything as true, you only have to accept it as necessary." "Depressing view," said K. "The lie made into the rule of the world."

The Trial.
 
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GoldenBoy89

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Not making anything up. Showing you're not logically consistent. It's pretty clear if you're reading your posts.
Please, show me the inconsistency in my posts.

Nope, you make a law. Even if there is a brief instance before a SC ruling, it's illegal at that time and you lose the argument by your own definition because, "hey it's legal!"
Just like that, huh. You just "make a law?" There's no process it has to go through before becoming a law? You just "make one" and everyone has to deal with it, regardless of the constitutionality of such a law?

I'm no legal expert but, that sounds like pure baloney.


LOL I got it. You said that based on the poll, there isn't a national support. You were mistaken because it's a flawed conclusion. I pointed out to you why it was flawed. It's that simple :oldthumbsup:
I said if national opinion is anything like the poll, you'll have a hard time making that law a reality. I hold onto the belief that most Americans would support freedom over government mandated respect of its symbols.

If you wish to worship our government and its symbols, you are more than welcome to. Good luck getting others to join you in your crusade against our rights.
 
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Belk

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Speech that is not offensive is not in need of protection. It is the speech that offends, that people disagree with, that others do not wish you to express that needs protection. The reason the first amendment exists at all is so that this type of speech is not shut down by those who would demand conformity.
 
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Chesterton

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Certainly it is not contemplated in the link you provided, that's all.

But I want to thank you for a capital notion. Even hardened liberals like myself wince when we see the flag burned in an haphazard, negligent fashion during a protest. A well-organized, solemn and respectful ceremony would be much more effective as a statement.
Since you're open to suggestions, here's a sensible one: why don't you move to a better country? One that does fewer things needing to be protested?
Then "looking up Drone Strikes" is a rabbit trail that leads nowhere.

I didn't say they were done because Obama was offended. That was just you putting words in my mouth again.
Ah, yes -- I see it now: "The Death of Political Correctness."

The Death of Political Correctness...

I seem to recall my main argument being that there is too much political correctness, but too much is better than none at all. You call that a defense?
I don't recall that being your argument, but I'm not going to read through the thread to see. Do you want to start the argument up again fresh? If so, it doesn't belong in this thread because, as I said, I don't think flag burning has to do with PC.
 
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Aryeh

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Speech that is not offensive is not in need of protection. It is the speech that offends, that people disagree with, that others do not wish you to express that needs protection. The reason the first amendment exists at all is so that this type of speech is not shut down by those who would demand conformity.

Non-offensive speech is protected also. All speech is meant to be protected by the first amendment. This, for example, prevents entities like politicians from punishing others for supporting their opponents.

The only speech that isn't protected are threats, and fighting words.
 
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LouisBooth

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A person can be arrested for "conspiracy" to perform a legal act? do tell...
ignorance of the law is no excuse. Legal action: owning a gun Illegal motivation: conspire to commit an act of terrorism. It's why we have the "no fly list" too.


That's going to hit the Boy Scouts and the V.F.W. pretty hard, don't you think?
Not at all, they don't burn it in protest.
 
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Speedwell

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Since you're open to suggestions, here's a sensible one: why don't you move to a better country? One that does fewer things needing to be protested?
LOL! Why don't you move to a country where it's easier to shut down protesters?
 
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LouisBooth

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So then you set up your protest to appear like a proper disposal ceremony of a worn out flag.

Loophole found, problem solved
If you protest by showing respect to the flag, by definition, it's not a protest. You're right, problem solved.

I said if national opinion is anything like the poll
and I pointed out the flaw in this statement. the Nation ISN'T like the poll.

If you wish to worship our government and its symbols
If you wish to protest the government, do it through elections and your vote and the process, not burning the flag, or unless you're a hypocrite, leave and cease to be under those protections. See, I can play your game too :)
 
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GoldenBoy89

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Not at all, they don't burn it in protest.
Then you are not banning the act, but the intention behind it.

It's not burning flags you see as wrong (or you'd agree it is wrong in any context), it's protesting the government you seem to have a problem with.
 
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LouisBooth

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Then you are not banning the act, but the intention behind it
No, it's the act and the motive. You can protest the government in a correct way, ie discussion, voting, letters to elected reps, etc... You can burn the flag respectfully in non-protest as a burial.
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I have no problem with protesting the government, but it's quite dishonest to try and put words in my mouth, and even more so to try and create a strawman.
 
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Speedwell

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You don't want to answer?
I'm an American citizen. I don't have to answer to anyone about why I want to stay here. Moreover, like many others I have taken an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies, both foreign and domestic, which should give pause to some of our fellow citizens.
 
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Belk

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No, it's the act and the motive. You can protest the government in a correct way, ie discussion, voting, letters to elected reps, etc... You can burn the flag respectfully in non-protest as a burial.
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I have no problem with protesting the government, but it's quite dishonest to try and put words in my mouth, and even more so to try and create a strawman.


Unless that protest involves burning a flag?
 
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Chesterton

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I'm an American citizen. I don't have to answer to anyone about why I want to stay here. Moreover, like many others I have taken an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies, both foreign and domestic, which should give pause to some of our fellow citizens.
I didn't ask you if you had to answer, but thanks for playing.
 
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Speedwell

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I didn't ask you if you had to answer, but thanks for playing.
If you insist: I will not leave the country I love because I don't want to see it entirely taken over by people like you.
 
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