Escaping the Great Tribulation?

[Revealing Times]

When the 7 TH trumpet will be sounded there will still be 42 months left before the Coming of Jesus and the Resurrection of the Saints.

Take a deep breath:

Revelation 11
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded;

The third woe is described in Revelation 12:7-17 This is Satan cast out of Heaven down to the Earth with his fallen angels to rule on the Earth during 42 months.
42 lunar months =
42 X 30 = 1260 days
1260 days =3 1/2 years.
a time, and times, and half a time,

Again, the book of Revelation is not in Chronological order. I have an article on this, I will post a snippet of it to show you my point on this, instead of rewriting it.

Revelation chapter six is the Seals so it is not ending right before the return of Christ with us Saints in Revelation 19. The end of each of these chapters I point out below ends close to Jesus' return, like chapter 12, we know it starts at around the birth of Israel/birth of Christ but it ends with Satan chasing Israel into the wilderness in the 42 month period and her being protected 42 months, which puts the end of the chapter right at Jesus' return.

1. Revelation chapter 7 ends with the Saints that died in the Tribulation standing before the throne of God.
2. Rev. 9 has the Armies of Armageddon/200 thousand, thousand.
3. Rev. 10 is John eating the the book which had the uttering's of the seven thunders, in 7:7 it says when he begins to sound, the mystery of God will be finished.
4. In Revelation 11 the two witnesses prophesy 1260 days. The end of the 1260 will be close to the end.
5. In Revelation chapter 12 I have already explained, it ends with Israel in the Wilderness
6. Rev. 13 speaks of the Beast and his 42 months. This will be the end no doubt.
7. Rev. 14 has Jesus and the 144,000 and ends with the angel thrusting the sickle into the earth to harvest the harvest.
8. Rev. 15 is the Seven Last Plagues.
9. Rev. 16 is the Seven Vials of Gods wrath.
9. Rev. 17 is the Great Harlot being Judged of God.
10. Rev. 18 is the World (Babylon) being judged by God.

Then in Revelation 19 we see the Saints who were raptured coming back with Jesus on white horses. So much of the book of Revelation is happening at the same time.

All of those chapters are happening concurrently.

 

[Riberra]

I read Chapter 15 and see no mention of what you say.

Revelation 15:2 their SOULS have ascended to Heaven they are seen by John standing on the sea of glass having the harps of God.

1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.


Revelation 20:4-6 is about their resurrection who will happen here on the Earth to reign with Jesus during the millennium.

Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the SOULS of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Those that will sit on thrones are the twelve apostles Matthew 19:28 ,Luke 22:30
Matthew 19:28
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

 

[Revealing Times]

Revelation 15:2 their SOULS have ascended to Heaven they are seen by John standing on the sea of glass having the harps of God.

1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.


Revelation 20:4-6 is about their resurrection who will happen here on the Earth to reign with Jesus during the millennium.

Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the SOULS of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Those that will sit on thrones are the twelve apostles Matthew 19:28 ,Luke 22:30
Matthew 19:28
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

I was looking for beheaded. But the post I posted about all of these chapters overlapping is proved by Rev. 15. These seem to me to be the Church in Heaven, not the BEHEADED. We all got the victory over Satan the Beast, but these are not spoken of as beheaded, like the ones in Rev. 20 are.

 

[Riberra]

I was looking for beheaded. But the post I posted about all of these chapters overlapping is proved by Rev. 15. These seem to me to be the Church in Heaven, not the BEHEADED. We all got the victory over Satan the Beast, but these are not spoken of as beheaded, like the ones in Rev. 20 are.

When a believer die his SOUL goes to Heaven martyred /or not (die from natural death or in an accident).The bulk of the Church is already in Heaven ,it is made of all the SOULS of the believers who have ascended to Heaven .
The only way you ie ( your soul )will go to Heaven is by dying not by a rapture.
The resurrection will occur here on the EARTH.Those that will be part of the FIRST resurrection will reign with Jesus HERE ON THE EARTH.Revelation 20:4-6

 

[Psalm3704]

The souls of the believers(Saints) goes to Heaven when their Earthly body die.
Revelation 6
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Verse 11b talk about other SOULS of martyrs wearing white robes will join them in Heaven before that God decide that it is time to avenge their blood.

John saw these other Souls of martyrs wearing white robes before the throne of God in Heaven in Revelation 7:9-17
Revelation 7:9-17
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

They were martyred to death/they came out of great tribulation:
thus the sentence in verse 14 These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The typical Riberra type response trying to refute apples using oranges with his one-size-fits-all souls in heaven rebuttal.







.

 

[Postvieww]

The last trumpet call for the "church" is very different than the last judgment trumpet [the 7th]

Scripture on the 7th judgment trumpet has no "rapture" component

The first trumpet sounding for the "church" is here [Revelation 1:10] .... the Lord's first formal message to the same .... His voice sounds like a musical trumpet [like the voice of an archangel].... so will it be at His pre-tribulation call

Straightshot said:

The last trumpet call for the "church" is very different than the last judgment trumpet [the 7th]

There is only one last trumpet. You have to manipulate the text to get where you are going with this. Your phrase “last trumpet call for the "church"” is a manmade theory that does not line up with any scripture.

Scripture on the 7th judgment trumpet has no "rapture" component

Oh but yes it does you just refuse to acknowledge it because it does not fit your narrative.

Revelation 10: 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The the days of the 7th (last) trumpet the mystery of God is finished. Finished here means finished.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh (last) angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

When does Christ reign over the kingdoms of this world? Answer, when He returns.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Now when is His wrath come, the dead judged, and rewards given to the saints, and those that destroy the earth destroyed? Answer when He comes. This first does not state the words this is the resurrection of the dead and catching up of the church but it sure is implied in the text. There is no resurrection stated or implied in your theory about Revelation 1:10 t doesn’t even say there was a trumpet, the text says “a great voice AS of a trumpet”.

19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.


The first trumpet sounding for the "church" is here [Revelation 1:10] ....

Another man made theory that does not line up with the text or the sequence of the book of Revelation. To borrow a phrase sounds “forced” to me. The problem with this is Paul said at the last trump and you say “the first trumpet”. Again a manmade theory does not line up with the text. At the first of your post you said "The last trumpet call for the "church" ". Which is it?

the Lord's first formal message to the same .... His voice sounds like a musical trumpet [like the voice of an archangel].... so will it be at His pre-tribulation call

There is no pretribulation call. You have no scripture for that just a hodge podge of misused scripture.

To get a resurrection in Revelation 1:10 you have just destroyed the entire timing and sequence of the book of Revelation and ”force” a false narrative into the text that simply is not there.

 

[Revealing Times]

When a believer die his SOUL goes to Heaven martyred /or not (die from natural death or in an accident).The bulk of the Church is already in Heaven ,it is made of all the SOULS of the believers who have ascended to Heaven .
The only way you ie ( your soul )will go to Heaven is by dying not by a rapture.
The resurrection will occur here on the EARTH.Those that will be part of the FIRST resurrection will reign with Jesus HERE ON THE EARTH.Revelation 20:4-6

Do you think so ? There is much doubt about that, but even if it was so, the Souls under the Alter in Seal #5 were given their White Robes but told they must wait awhile. My take on the ones that go to heaven when they die is a little different, of course its subject to interpretation. But I see that the DEAD IN CHRIST Rise First then we who are alive and remain change in he Twinkling of an eye. Of course this could mean the Dead in Christ rise First for 2000 years, then we who are alive and remain. The Old Saints left when Jesus was crucified, and the thief was told he would be with Jesus that day. However, the 5th Seal says they were told to WAIT, that order supersedes whichever position one takes.

 

[Postvieww]

"How do you wiggle out of the one truth that the resurrection is at the last day per Daniel, Job, Jesus and Paul?"


The "last day" is a time frame within which a number of events will occur .... the "day of the Lord"

Both "at" the last day and "in" the last day are used .... never "on" the last day

Makes no sense. The resurrection takes place in a moment in the twinkling of an eye. Not over a long time period. Jesus said at the last day, believe it. The phrase “last days” is used to show a time period.

Genesis 49:1, Isaiah 2:2, Acts 2:17, 2 Timothy 3:1, James 5:3, 2 Peter 3:3 all of these scriptures refer to a time period not a specific 24 hour period by the wording and the context.

John 6:39, 40, 44 &54 are the last day in which a resurrection takes place in the twinkling of an eye.
The last day is the last day. That is just an attempt to negate verses that contradict a false notion.

 

[Postvieww]

Other than Jesus has all power in heaven and in the earth - is a small consideration? No it is everything. Totally.

If Jesus is not totally in control - then we have not hope.



It is not arbitrary. It is Jesus who is in charge. Don't you get that?

I have been clear that it is not literally Jesus taken out of the way, but his body - Christians. Removed, from all the trouble that is going to take place here on the earth.

The mystery of inequity that has been going on for the past 2000 years because Jesus is allowing it, will continue, until the body of Christ is taken out of the way, raptured, Then Jesus is going to allow the man of sin go into the temple and claim to be God. Which following that action is the day of Christ, the day of the Lord. Contained within that timeframe is the great tribulation.

Doug said:

Other than Jesus has all power in heaven and in the earth - is a small consideration? No it is everything. Totally.

If Jesus is not totally in control - then we have not hope.

I have affirmed in agreement with you repeatedly that Jesus has all power. You keep ignoring the point I made on this topic. Just because Jesus is in control and has all power does not mean He cannot use Michael to restrain. Jesus with all power could assign you to restrain if He so chose.

It is not arbitrary. It is Jesus who is in charge. Don't you get that?

I get that, Jesus is in charge, I agree with you. Why will you not address the real point here and stop going back to the same old argument which does not apply?

I have been clear that it is not literally Jesus taken out of the way, but his body - Christians. Removed, from all the trouble that is going to take place here on the earth.

That is not in the text of 2 Thessalonians. The falling away and the man of sin will be revealed before that can happen. That is in the text.

The mystery of inequity that has been going on for the past 2000 years because Jesus is allowing it, will continue,

Agreed

until the body of Christ is taken out of the way, raptured,

Nowhere in scripture

Then Jesus is going to allow the man of sin go into the temple and claim to be God. Which following that action is the day of Christ, the day of the Lord. Contained within that timeframe is the great tribulation.

 

[Straightshot]

"It is not arbitrary. It is Jesus who is in charge. Don't you get that?"


Anyone posting on this forum had better get it

And it is He Himself who will step aside and remove His restraint allowing for Satan's mimic during the coming tribulation [2 Thessalonians 2:3-12]

His true ecclesia is a very different thing and not apart of removing His restraint against the devil .... these will be made immortal first [Revelation 3:10 .... and then He will remove His restraint allowing for Satan and his fallen angels to rage upon the earth during the tribulation

Why is He going to do this? .... to take His vengeance upon a world that has refused to believe the truth about Him ... and He will use Satan and his reprobate angels to do the job along with other devastating judgments [Jude 1:14-15]

Then He will turn on Satan, lock him up in the abyss and send his cohorts to their extinction in His lake of fire [Revelation 19:19-21; 20:1-3]

Jesus will have the last laugh .... no doubt [Psalms 2; Revelation 6:12-17] .... He always wins as He plays His enemies, angelic and human, against each other

 

[Riberra]

"It is not arbitrary. It is Jesus who is in charge. Don't you get that?"


Anyone posting on this forum had better get it

And it is He Himself who will step aside and remove His restraint allowing for Satan's mimic during the coming tribulation [2 Thessalonians 2:3-12]

His true ecclesia is a very different thing and not apart of removing His restraint against the devil .... these will be made immortal first [Revelation 3:10 ....

Where do you get a resurrection from Revelation 3:10 is a mystery.
Do you know that the Church of Philadelphia was in existence in the time when John wrote Revelation...they have ALL died from natural death since then ....They were keep from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.


Revelation 3:7-12
7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; 8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

 

[Riberra]

"It is not arbitrary. It is Jesus who is in charge. Don't you get that?"


Anyone posting on this forum had better get it

And it is He Himself who will step aside and remove His restraint allowing for Satan's mimic during the coming tribulation [2 Thessalonians 2:3-12]

His true ecclesia is a very different thing and not apart of removing His restraint against the devil .... these will be made immortal first [Revelation 3:10 ....

By which reasoning you get a resurrection from Revelation 3:10 is a mystery.
Do you know that the Church of Philadelphia was in existence in the time when John wrote Revelation...they have ALL died from natural death since then ....They were keep from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.[this was referring to the terrible Roman persecution (influenced by Satan) against the seven Churches that were in existence in the time of John ].

these will be made immortal first [Revelation 3:10 ....

Nobody from the Church of Philadelphia who existed in the time of John have been made immortal.Nobody is walking around in an immortal body.
That will happen UNTO THE COMING OF JESUS NOT BEFORE.Do you get it ?


Revelation 3:7-12
7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; 8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

 

[Straightshot]

"By which reasoning you get a resurrection from Revelation 3:10 is a mystery"


No mystery to me .... a mystery to you

You place an historical impediment upon the verse .... this event is future and still pending

Do you not know that the Lord's message to the "church" still stands today .... nothing has changed

His message exemplifying His evaluation of the behavior of the same .... is still the same

And you need to pay special attention to these verses [Revelation 2:9; 3:9; 3:10; 3:15-20]

You are doing some things for which you will pay a price

 

[Douggg]

I have affirmed in agreement with you repeatedly that Jesus has all power. You keep ignoring the point I made on this topic. Just because Jesus is in control and has all power does not mean He cannot use Michael to restrain. Jesus with all power could assign you to restrain if He so chose.

Why didn't Gabriel get the job?

 

[Straightshot]

The restrainer of the devil is not Michael the archangel .... only the Lord can do this thing

 

[Postvieww]

Why didn't Gabriel get the job?

Ask Jesus he has all power. He doesn't tell why He does everything He does.

 

[Postvieww]

The restrainer of the devil is not Michael the archangel .... only the Lord can do this thing

Michael can throw satan out of heaven but he can't restrain him, hmmm that makes a lot of sense. An angel binds satan for a thousand years but he can't restrain him???? Where do you get this stuff? Got any scripture or just your theory?

 

[Postvieww]

"By which reasoning you get a resurrection from Revelation 3:10 is a mystery"


No mystery to me .... a mystery to you

You place an historical impediment upon the verse .... this event is future and still pending

Do you not know that the Lord's message to the "church" still stands today .... nothing has changed

His message exemplifying His evaluation of the behavior of the same .... is still the same

And you need to pay special attention to these verses [Revelation 2:9; 3:9; 3:10; 3:15-20]

You are doing some things for which you will pay a price

Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, (the things which are in John’s day , the seven church were literal churches in John’s day) , and the things which shall be hereafter; (hear after is hear after John’s day, future to John)

 

[Straightshot]

None of the Lord's angels have the trappings to stand against this devil except the Lord .... not one

[Isaiah 14:12-27; Ezekiel 28:12-19; Daniel 10:5-14]

The contest is between the Lord and the ancient serpent [Genesis 3]

Your own logic fails against the Lord's revealings .... and you view lacks enough scripture and correct rendering to throw you off course

.... then you give your opinions without full context

 

[Straightshot]

"Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, (the things which are in John’s day , the seven church were literal churches in John’s day) , and the things which shall be hereafter; (hear after is hear after John’s day, future to John)"


Wrong again .... not just after John's day, but much longer

After the Lord's dispensation of grace for the "church" still on going .... then the coming tribulation, and beyond

John's spirit was taken to heaven and into the future to be shown "the things here after"

The tribulation [day of the Lord] is still pending at this time

Can you get this?

What John saw was Revelation's account of the coming tribulation .... "the things here after" .... things that have never yet taken place to this very day

This is what John was to write down in advance .... and guess what? .... he did

Now your idea just does not compute does it?

So when the Lord's true ecclesia are made immortal .... then the tribulation will begin, not before

So where will you be?

This stuff above is prophecy 101 ... but you seem to be totally oblivious to the facts

Or do you just like to argue?

I will tell you what your problem is .... you have listened too long to false teachers like David McPherson .... who says that the Lord's pre-tribulation call is a lie of the devil