you - your Bible - and aliens from outer space

[Jipsah]

How could you know that for a fact?

How can you know that it isn't?

 

[Jipsah]

hmmm- there are other planets, suns, galaxies and an entire universe out there

Which by your "logic" means that all those planets in all those solar systems and galaxies must be inhabited by sinless geniuses with FTL drives and radiationless forms of energy, who can and do flit across intergalactic space in flying saucers. Got it. That's how the scientific mind works, I'm sure. <Laugh>

- but for some folks -- it is just the one planet and the whole universe just tiny dots of light circling our earth.

Those are called "Sabbatarians", I think. Still mired in the Old Testament even after God Himself intervened in human history and established the New Covenant. Poor devils, a shame they can't awaken!

C'mon, tell us about those magical aliens of yours, Bob. Are they just yours, or are they an SDA invention, kinda like Investigative Judgement? Are they bilaterally symmetrical, or more like the Lumpy Space People, sort of amorphous? Do they communicate primarily via sound or do they use elaborate interpretive dances? Do they have the equivalent of cars, or do they just teleport from place to place (except when they're performing Maneuvers That Defy The Law of Physics in their flying saucers, of course)? I'm sure they'd like to come and meet us, but they think they'd blow our minds, isn't that right? I mean, hey, we want details on these supermen, and it appears that you're the only guy who has that knowledge to dispense.

 

[mmksparbud]

I';m sure you've checked on that.

God hasn't seen fit to reveal to me His schedule immediately following the Creation, but I'm quite sure that if He wanted to create anything apart from this galaxy then He did so, and may still be doing so for all I know. I think that deciding precisely what He has done since then is pretty presumptuous, though. It's kind of like saying that God had filled all the worlds apart from ours with gerbils because, well, that's what He'd do! Show me some evidence that might lead me to believe that then I will, otherwise you're simply talking rubbish.

Why do you wish to claim to possess knowledge of what God has done that in fact you do not?

"They" being the folks that God has placed on the planets in far flung galaxies who you know about because... well you just know. Right.

Actually I'm denying that you can claim any knowledge at all of what God may have done in other galaxies for the very simple reason that you don't have any. You want to believe that God made zillions of galaxies and populated them with rainicorns and frodises. Fine. The trick is that you don't know that He did any more than I know that He didn't. It's just something you happen to believe, based on nothing at all. I happen to find that kind of "logic" exceedingly weird.

Read post #139--and chill out with another drink of blood

 

[BobRyan]

Which by your "logic" means that all those planets in all those solar systems and galaxies must be inhabited by sinless geniuses with FTL drives and radiationless forms of energy, who can and do flit across intergalactic space in flying saucers. Got it. .

On the contrary - that is your own flawed story telling as you simply "quote you". I have no problem with the "Jipsah is wrong" response. Why do you "quote you" as if I am going claim your own story as mine?

Is that even logical?

 

[BobRyan]

Ya know, it's really amazing the sort of thing that Christians can come up with to believe when they chuck the Bible aside and just make stuff up as they go. Aliens

hmmm- there are other planets, suns, galaxies and an entire universe out there - but for some folks -- it is just the one planet and the whole universe just tiny dots of light circling our earth.

Sleep well.

Apparently some Christians can't tell the difference between the real universe and the product of overheated imaginations.

That is what I was saying about that "only this earth" and "All the universe revolves around this earth" group.

You might want to wake up for this one. (as we already saw on page - 1 )

NASA's Kepler mission has verified 1,284 new planets – the single largest finding of planets to date.

“This announcement more than doubles the number of confirmed planets from Kepler,” said Ellen Stofan, chief scientist at NASA Headquarters in Washington. “This gives us hope that somewhere out there, around a star much like ours, we can eventually discover another Earth.”

"Analysis was performed on the Kepler space telescope’s July 2015 planet candidate catalog, which identified 4,302 potential planets. For 1,284 of the candidates, the probability of being a planet is greater than 99 percent – the minimum required to earn the status of “planet.” An additional 1,327 candidates are more likely than not to be actual planets, but they do not meet the 99 percent threshold and will require additional study. The remaining 707 are more likely to be some other astrophysical phenomena."


quotes are also from: http://www.nasa.gov/press-release/n...largest-collection-of-planets-ever-discovered
==================================


The EarthSky publication makes this comment -

"And how likely is it that this life will develop intelligence? This remains an open question (which is scientist-speak for “we haven’t got a clue”). But many scientists consider intelligent life almost inevitable, in which case the galaxy should be teaming with alien civilizations."
http://earthsky.org/space/intelligent-life-universe-aliens-contact#

One thing to notice is that these quoted sources consider the "origin" - the "mechanism" for getting intelligent life on all those zillions of planets - is ... what I call "blind faith evolutionism".

as Christians we know there is "another option" for getting intelligent life on a planet.

so what does that life mean to your idea of Christianity?

One thing it means is that more and more Christian parents will find that they are sending their students to schools where the teachers take intelligent life in our universe "as a given".

And then there is the Presidential election aspect --

================================

NYTimes - May 11, 2016

"Mrs. Clinton has vowed that barring any threats to national security, she would open up government files on the subject, a shift from President Obama, who typically dismisses the topic as a joke. Her position has elated U.F.O. enthusiasts, who have declared Mrs. Clinton the first “E.T. candidate.”

“Hillary has embraced this issue with an absolutely unprecedented level of interest in American politics,” said Joseph G. Buchman, who has spent decades calling for government transparency about extraterrestrials.

Mrs. Clinton, a cautious candidate who often bemoans being the subject of Republican conspiracy theories, has shown surprising ease plunging into the discussion of the possibility of extraterrestrial beings."

from NY times - hhttp://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/11/us/politics/hillary-clinton-aliens.html

=====================

Washington Post April 2016
During the 1990s, there was an effort by Laurance Rockefeller (of the Rockefeller Rockefellers) to encourage the United States government to release any classified information it had about extraterrestrials, alien spacecraft and UFOs. The effort, referred to as the Rockefeller Initiative by UFO truthers, included meetings between Rockefeller and senior Clinton administration staff. In August of 1995, the Clintons stayed at Rockefeller's ranch in Wyoming, and Hillary was photographed with him while holding a book titled, "Are We Alone? Philosophical Implications of the Discovery of Extraterrestrial Life." (A large number of documents pertaining to Rockefeller's advocacy on this issue were released under the Freedom of Information Act several years ago.)

from: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...story-of-john-podestas-space-alien-obsession/

Those are called "Sabbatarians", I think. Still mired in the Old Testament

Earth to Jipsah -- feel free to join the actual conversation on this thread ... at any moment.

even after God Himself intervened in human history and established the New Covenant. Poor devils,

The New Covenant is your response to this question about planets in the universe?? seriously.

Have you ever even read the New Covenant? If so -- which part of "Covenant that I will make with the house of Israel and the house of Judah... I will write My LAWS on their heart and mind" Jer 31:31-33, Hebrews 8:6-10 ... sounds to you like "Commandment denying" on God's part???

And why bring that up here?

 

[daleksteve]

"God so loved the WORLD that HE gave" -- it is only this world that sinned - it is only this world that has the Gospel given such that here and here alone - the sinner is justified and forgiven through the death of Christ. The rest of the universe benefits from watching events unfold here.

Really?

So we are back to the old Aliens are perfect people arguments who live on other planets without sin.

Aliens abduct people, some of them are most certainly with sin or are we going to play these are not Aliens but demons in disquise card again.

 

[daleksteve]

hmmm- there are other planets, suns, galaxies and an entire universe out there - but for some folks -- it is just the one planet and the whole universe just tiny dots of light circling our earth.

Those folk are ignorant and stupid. Anybody with any amount of reasonable intelligence can work out that there are other planets, suns and galaxies and possibly other life out in the universe.

The odds of us being alone in the universe boarders on several trillion trillion to one. Its a mathatical fact that we are not alone judging by the size of the universe.

 

[daleksteve]

How can you know that it isn't?

It's called Science. Majority of the very intelligent people on our planet say we are not alone using science, logic and intelligent reasoning and mathematics.

Astronomers estimate that there are 100 billion galaxies in the universe. If you want to extrapolate those numbers, that means there are around 50,000,000,000,000,000,000 (50 quintillion) potentially habitable planets in the universe.

 

[mmksparbud]

Which by your "logic" means that all those planets in all those solar systems and galaxies must be inhabited by sinless geniuses with FTL drives and radiationless forms of energy, who can and do flit across intergalactic space in flying saucers. Got it. That's how the scientific mind works, I'm sure. <Laugh>

Those are called "Sabbatarians", I think. Still mired in the Old Testament even after God Himself intervened in human history and established the New Covenant. Poor devils, a shame they can't awaken!

C'mon, tell us about those magical aliens of yours, Bob. Are they just yours, or are they an SDA invention, kinda like Investigative Judgement? Are they bilaterally symmetrical, or more like the Lumpy Space People, sort of amorphous? Do they communicate primarily via sound or do they use elaborate interpretive dances? Do they have the equivalent of cars, or do they just teleport from place to place (except when they're performing Maneuvers That Defy The Law of Physics in their flying saucers, of course)? I'm sure they'd like to come and meet us, but they think they'd blow our minds, isn't that right? I mean, hey, we want details on these supermen, and it appears that you're the only guy who has that knowledge to dispense.

Why do you say SDA invention? I know nothing about what other SDA believe on this, if they think about it at all. I have a personal opinion. Bob can think what he wants and so can you--You are the one that call them magical aliens flying in saucers---I personally don't know any such thing nor do I believe that they do that but I don't now. You are being beyond silly and superimposing your own Twilight Zone ideas of what is and isn't out there. I simply believe God has created other beings out there. What they do I don't know, nor do I waste my time thinking about it. God has His angels that He uses to do His work here. That is what they were created for, being His messengers. That is what He says in the bible that He uses and has used. Why would He send others here--it would serve no purpose. Get your head out of the Twilight Zone, you serve no purpose, either, with these thoughts.

 

[Jipsah]

chill out with another drink of blood

I suppose that our Lord just misspoke Himself when He said the bread and the cup were His Body and Blood. He had such a hard time communicating, it's a shame you weren't there to clarify it for everyone.

 

[mmksparbud]

If you want to believe that the wine actually becomes the blood of Jesus -- it's your right. Just that even under the new covenant--we are to stay away from blood--
Act_21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

It is the blood of Jesus that washes away our sins---do we actual get doused in His blood?? Is it a way of speech? Are our robes of righteousness actually soaked in the blood of Jesus? It is a manner of speech, but if you wish to believe otherwise--OK. Not the topic--sorry I brought it up, it is under your name.

 

[Jipsah]

hmmm- there are other planets, suns, galaxies and an entire universe out there

So let's just look at your "logic" in the form of a simple syllogism:

God created lots of planets, suns, galaxies, and an entire universe.

God created sentient life here.

Ergo God created sentient life in, on, or around all the planets, sins, and galaxies, and that life is sinless, vastly more intelligent than human beings, and has technology far beyond our understanding.

You apparently believe that your premises support that conclusion. I do not.

That is what I was saying about that "only this earth" and "All the universe revolves around this earth" group.

Sorry, mate, b ut the charge is as idiotic as it is false.

Earth to Jipsah -- feel free to join the actual conversation on this thread ... at any moment.

Going a bot over your head, am I?

The New Covenant is your response to this question about planets in the universe?? seriously.

Actually, the response was to: "but for some folks -- it is just the one planet and the whole universe just tiny dots of light circling our earth." I thought you were certainly referring to Sabbatarians, and their disdain for anything "new", like New Covenants.

Have you ever even read the New Covenant?

Yep, including the Pauline epistles and the letter to the Hebrews, which were apparently omitted from Your Bible.

If so -- which part of "Covenant that I will make with the house of Israel and the house of Judah... I will write My LAWS on their heart and mind"

How much of the Old Covenant was required of the gentile converts by the Council of Jerusalem? Oh, I forgot, that Didn't Really Mean What It Said", correct?

Go look for some spacemen. Bob.

 

[Jipsah]

Aliens abduct people

What aliens?

 

[Jipsah]

Its a mathatical fact that we are not alone judging by the size of the universe.

Thanks for sharing that bit of mathematical wisdom. BTW, how big must a universe be before it necessarily becomes populated by sentient beings?

 

[Jipsah]

It's called Science. Majority of the very intelligent people on our planet say we are not alone using science, logic and intelligent reasoning and mathematics.

No evidence of any kind necessary, right? Yep, that's real Science, all right.

Astronomers estimate that there are 100 billion galaxies in the universe. If you want to extrapolate those numbers, that means there are around 50,000,000,000,000,000,000 (50 quintillion) potentially habitable planets in the universe.

And with those zillions of aliens out there, no stray RFR at all, huh? Oh, I forgot, Bob has 'splained to us that they're way too advanced to use electricity. All of 'em. Every last one of them. Every dadgum one of 'em. Yeah, buddy.

 

[Jipsah]

If you want to believe that the wine actually becomes the blood of Jesus -- it's your right.

Just as it was the right of a bunch of our Lord's followers to leave Him because they couldn't imagine Him saying anything that weird. People have had trouble believing what He said from Day 1.

It is the blood of Jesus that washes away our sins---do we actual get doused in His blood?? Is it a way of speech? Are our robes of righteousness actually soaked in the blood of Jesus? It is a manner of speech, but if you wish to believe otherwise--OK. Not the topic--sorry I brought it up, it is under your name.

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

I reckon I'll take Him at His Word, thanks all the same.

 

[Jipsah]

Why do you say SDA invention?

Primarily because Bob seems to consider the existence of non-angelic ET aliens to be almost a religious belief, and since he's a fairly rabid SDA, seems like it might have come from there. It's certainly an article of faith in any case. There is zero empirical evidence of "aliens" one way or another. Saying "there must be aliens" is as stupid as saying "there cannot be aliens". No evidence is no evidence.

You are the one that call them magical aliens flying in saucers

Just going on the descriptions of "aliens" that I get from Space Men & Flying Saucers buffs in these forums.

You are being beyond silly and superimposing your own Twilight Zone ideas of what is and isn't out there.

Quite the contrary, I don't know if there's anybody out there at all, and thus see no need to assign attributes of any kind to critters who may not even exist at all. It's the SM&FS folks who assure us that Spacemen are sinless, they they have faster-than-light flying saucers, that they don't use electricity or any other form of energy that would radiate into the RF spectrum for us to receive, ad infinitum. Sure sounds like magic to me.

I simply believe God has created other beings out there.

I accept that as an article of faith on your part. Trying to render that belief somehow "scientific" isn't going to work, because for it to be "scientific", you have to have empirical evidence to work from, and you don't have any.

you serve no purpose, either, with these thoughts.

Dunno about that. Sometimes I motivate people to question nonsensical opinions that they hold. I think that's worthwhile in itself.

 

[mmksparbud]

I accept that as an article of faith on your part. Trying to render that belief somehow "scientific" isn't going to work, because for it to be "scientific", you have to have empirical evidence to work from, and you don't have any.

Article of faith???? Have no idea what you mean. I already stated it is my personal opinion---and I am entitled to it as you are yours. I have no scientific empirical evidence?? LOL!!--are you kidding--like there is scientific empirical evidence for the existence of God? You are going on about nothing. None of this stuff is a salvation matter---you really need to chill out. It is merely a fun thing. Yes, I like to think there are sinless beings out there besides the angels that did not fall--so what??! You can think there are none--so what, nothing to me. I am not going to waste my time making fun of you for not believing it! Yes, Job states the sons of God gathered together before God and Satan came also. And I do think that was a heavenly council that Satan attented as the Prince of this world. Why does that upset you and make you say silly things that no one has said?? I never mentioned flying saucers and why would angels or other possible beings need them? There is no mention in the bible about any kind of apparatus that angels use in getting around the heavens.
But now I am going to give you something else to get in a snit about. I happen to think the the prefloods people were exceptionally intelligent--savants even-(without the idiot part) I think they had knowledge that we are just discovering. We can produce geniuses in the lousy 50 or so years of our working lifespan and I see no reason why in nearly 1000 years they couldn't have developed their skills, knowledge and abilities to astounding heights. They had full use of their brains, with excellent food, and no worries about bad weather, droughts or floods so why not? So you can sit there and snicker about that if you want.
Personally, I kind of like the idea that there might be a planet that is full of merpeople--yes---mermaids!! Not these half fish things, crestures that live underwater mostly. I had a dream years ago, in color no less, and they were beautiful. I keep wondering what I had for dinner that night and wish I could repeat it. I told several people about it over the years and they hope so too, it was fun---it was a fantastic dream. I wish I were an artist so I could paint them. And no, I never took drugs!So what? You seem to have no imagination! Pity, it's fun to have one. I have a brother like you---sooo sad.

 

[Jipsah]

Article of faith???? Have no idea what you mean. I already stated it is my personal opinion---and I am entitled to it as you are yours. I have no scientific empirical evidence?? LOL!!--are you kidding--like there is scientific empirical evidence for the existence of God?

So your belief in aliens has the same basis as your belief in God - faith. Thanks!

And I do think that was a heavenly council that Satan attented as the Prince of this world. Why does that upset you

It doesn't. Why should it? <Laugh>

But now I am going to give you something else to get in a snit about. I happen to think the the prefloods people were exceptionally intelligent--savants even-(without the idiot part) I think they had knowledge that we are just discovering.

No worries, you can direct your faith in any direction you choose. You can choose to believe in Space Men, or Ancient Savants, or whatever. Just try not to expect anyone else to believe in them without evidence of some sort.

You seem to have no imagination! Pity, it's fun to have one. I have a brother like you---sooo sad.

Oh, I have plenty of imagination. My profession pretty much required it. But I have managed to maintain the distinction between stuff that's real and stuff that exists only in my head. I can imagine spacemen and horse-sized ducks readily enough, but I don't find myself thinking that they must be real. That's the difference.

 

[daleksteve]

No worries, you can direct your faith in any direction you choose. You can choose to believe in Space Men, or Ancient Savants, or whatever. Just try not to expect anyone else to believe in them without evidence of some sort.

.

The Evidence is in the bible itself. You just need to stop calling them Angels or demons.