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BobRyan

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NASA May 10, 2016
"Before the Kepler space telescope launched, we did not know whether exoplanets were rare or common in the galaxy. Thanks to Kepler and the research community, we now know there could be more planets than stars,” said Paul Hertz, Astrophysics Division director at NASA Headquarters. "This knowledge informs the future missions that are needed to take us ever-closer to finding out whether we are alone in the universe."
http://www.nasa.gov/press-release/n...largest-collection-of-planets-ever-discovered

NASA's Kepler mission has verified 1,284 new planets – the single largest finding of planets to date.

“This announcement more than doubles the number of confirmed planets from Kepler,” said Ellen Stofan, chief scientist at NASA Headquarters in Washington. “This gives us hope that somewhere out there, around a star much like ours, we can eventually discover another Earth.”

"Analysis was performed on the Kepler space telescope’s July 2015 planet candidate catalog, which identified 4,302 potential planets. For 1,284 of the candidates, the probability of being a planet is greater than 99 percent – the minimum required to earn the status of “planet.” An additional 1,327 candidates are more likely than not to be actual planets, but they do not meet the 99 percent threshold and will require additional study. The remaining 707 are more likely to be some other astrophysical phenomena."


quotes are also from: http://www.nasa.gov/press-release/n...largest-collection-of-planets-ever-discovered
==================================


The EarthSky publication makes this comment -

"And how likely is it that this life will develop intelligence? This remains an open question (which is scientist-speak for “we haven’t got a clue”). But many scientists consider intelligent life almost inevitable, in which case the galaxy should be teaming with alien civilizations."
http://earthsky.org/space/intelligent-life-universe-aliens-contact#

One thing to notice is that these quoted sources consider the "origin" - the "mechanism" for getting intelligent life on all those zillions of planets - is ... what I call "blind faith evolutionism".

as Christians we know there is "another option" for getting intelligent life on a planet.

so what does that life mean to your idea of Christianity?

One thing it means is that more and more Christian parents will find that they are sending their students to schools where the teachers take intelligent life in our universe "as a given".

And then there is the Presidential election aspect --

================================

NYTimes - May 11, 2016

"Mrs. Clinton has vowed that barring any threats to national security, she would open up government files on the subject, a shift from President Obama, who typically dismisses the topic as a joke. Her position has elated U.F.O. enthusiasts, who have declared Mrs. Clinton the first “E.T. candidate.”

“Hillary has embraced this issue with an absolutely unprecedented level of interest in American politics,” said Joseph G. Buchman, who has spent decades calling for government transparency about extraterrestrials.

Mrs. Clinton, a cautious candidate who often bemoans being the subject of Republican conspiracy theories, has shown surprising ease plunging into the discussion of the possibility of extraterrestrial beings."

from NY times - hhttp://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/11/us/politics/hillary-clinton-aliens.html

=====================

Washington Post April 2016
During the 1990s, there was an effort by Laurance Rockefeller (of the Rockefeller Rockefellers) to encourage the United States government to release any classified information it had about extraterrestrials, alien spacecraft and UFOs. The effort, referred to as the Rockefeller Initiative by UFO truthers, included meetings between Rockefeller and senior Clinton administration staff. In August of 1995, the Clintons stayed at Rockefeller's ranch in Wyoming, and Hillary was photographed with him while holding a book titled, "Are We Alone? Philosophical Implications of the Discovery of Extraterrestrial Life." (A large number of documents pertaining to Rockefeller's advocacy on this issue were released under the Freedom of Information Act several years ago.)

from: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...story-of-john-podestas-space-alien-obsession/
 
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BobRyan

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We know from the Bible that Angels are not from earth and there are good ones... and there are evil ones. And they are both here among us.

We know from 2 Thess 2 - that Satan will be freed up to work with "all power and signs and lying wonders" as we approach the end of the world.

2 Thess 2
8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.

We know that God alone can create life - yet Satan was able to make it "appear" to Pharaoh that his "magicians" could turn sticks into snakes (in illusion) - just as Moses did via the power of God in real life.

Satan's art, deception and science is far older than 6000 years. It is beyond question that he can totally flummox man's science.

In 2Thess 2 Satan is the master illusionist on the stage - and mankind the mere sheeple in the audience - not a chance of outsmarting the group that is on stage.

Rev 13 describes it this way -
"11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon. 12 He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed. 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men. 14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who *had the wound of the sword and has come to life. 15 And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed"


===================== by contrast

In modern ufology - there is no God, no trustworthy Bible, no devil -- just mankind, evolutionism and aliens who are mostly friendly and they seem to want to come to earth at times and do aerial tricks in the sky for us.

as Christians we should not be so easily duped into going along with that counterfeit story line they offer.
 
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Hieronymus

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So called aliens are the gods of old, the fallen angels that share our fallen domain, yet they are 'superdimensional' or 'paranormal', can hide and 'manifest'.
You can conjure them too.
They have been known to man for ages, as 'ancestors' or 'gods' or 'demons' etcetera.
 
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BobRyan said in post 1:

so what does that life mean to your idea of Christianity?

Some people feel that Christians mustn't believe in the existence of aliens, for then Christians could be deceived by entities such as Satan and other fallen angelic beings or demons claiming to be aliens. But the existence of aliens doesn't require that all aliens must be good, just as the existence of angels doesn't require that all angels must be good. Christians would have to evaluate the goodness of any alien in the same way that they would have to evaluate the goodness of any angel: by the doctrine that he teaches (Galatians 1:8), by his faithfulness to God's Word the Bible (2 Timothy 4:2-4; 1 Timothy 4:1, John 8:31b, Matthew 4:4), by his obedience to YHWH God (Mark 12:29-31, Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18b). Also, the Bible doesn't say that Satan appears as a good alien, but it does say that he can appear as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14). So worrying about being deceived only by aliens is a dangerous distraction. Christians need to also be careful of being deceived even by angels of light.

The universe is so vast, with something like 100 billion galaxies, each containing something like 100 billion stars, that even if only one star out of every 10 billion stars has a planet with intelligent life on it, there would still be a trillion inhabited planets. This would be to the great glory of God, for he is the Creator of everything (Revelation 4:11). God could deal with intelligent life on other planets in the same way that he deals with people on the earth: Some individuals could go to a heaven when they die, while others could go to a hell. Or the intelligent life on some other planets may have never fallen into sin, like Adam and Eve did, so that the intelligent life on those planets never became mortal. Any such unfallen, intelligent life could be living in sinless, immortal bliss on their planets, like Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden before their fall. Also, ultimately, the destiny of saved people on the earth isn't to live forever in heaven like ghosts strumming harps on clouds, but to live forever in resurrected, immortal physical bodies (1 Corinthians 15:52-53, Romans 8:23-25, Philippians 3:21, Luke 24:39) on a new earth with God (Revelation 21).

Some people feel that aliens can't exist because the Bible makes no mention of them. But not everything that exists has to be mentioned in the Bible (cf. John 21:25). For example, the Bible makes no mention of Velcro, yet it exists. And the Bible makes no mention of the fact that the earth orbits the sun, and not vice versa as many Bible believers mistakenly assumed for centuries. Such believers even mistakenly claimed that the heliocentric system was a lie which was against the revealed knowledge of God in the Bible that the sun orbits the earth. Of course, the truth is that nothing in the Bible requires a geocentric system. Similarly, nothing in the Bible requires that aliens can't exist.

Also, the argument that other inhabited planets can't exist because if they did, the Bible would have told us about them, is like someone in the 1300's in Europe saying: "Other inhabited continents can't exist besides the ones in the Bible: Europe, Africa, and Asia. For if other inhabited continents did exist, the Bible would have told us about them". Of course, the truth is that the Bible made no mention of the other inhabited continents of North America, South America, and Australia, and yet they existed. Similarly, even though the Bible makes no mention of other inhabited planets, they could exist.

If the specific aliens which some people claim to have had contact with (such as "the Greys") truly exist, they could be fallen angels or demons. Or they could be real aliens in the sense of mortal beings from some other star system. Or, if interstellar travel is physically impossible because of the practical limits which special relativity places on how fast matter can travel, they could be mortal beings from our own solar system who evolved (by God's created process of evolution) or were miraculously created by God long before humans, whether on this planet, or on the 2nd or the 4th planet from the sun, in some past eon when either or both of those planets was inhabitable.

Some people feel that other inhabited planets in other star systems can't exist, because God is only going to live with the saved people on this planet (Revelation 21:2-3). But God can live in more than one place at a time (Psalms 139:7-10). Something similar to Revelation 21:2-3 could already be in place on billions of other inhabited planets. For just as the body of each individual believer on this planet is the tabernacle/the temple of God (1 Corinthians 6:19), so each unfallen or regenerated planet could have its own tabernacle/holy city of God. And God can reign in all of them simultaneously, just as he can reign in each believer on the earth simultaneously (John 14:23, Ephesians 3:17).

Some people feel that fallen aliens can't exist because the book of life, Hades, the lake of fire, the judgment days, and the 3rd heaven are only for people from this planet. But each fallen planet could have the equivalent of its own book of life, its own Hades, its own lake of fire, its own judgment for the saved only, and its own great white throne judgment. Some fallen planets' judgments could have already occurred billions of years ago, while others may not occur for billions of years after the judgments on this planet occur. Also, each inhabited planet could have its own 3rd heaven, above each planet, in a 4th spatial dimension which is "higher" than the 3 spatial dimensions which we can see.

Some people feel that fallen aliens can't exist, because Christ can die for sins only once (Hebrews 10:10), and only for the sins of people on this planet (Hebrews 2:16-17). But just as Christ incarnated as a human on this planet (John 1:1,14), and died once for the sins of humans on this planet, so he could have incarnated as other intelligent life-forms on other fallen planets and died once for them as well. Also, the universe could be so old (some 14 billion years, while the earth could be some 4.5 billion years old) that many fallen inhabited planets could have already completed their regeneration billions of years ago, with their saved inhabitants having had their sins forgiven by faith in a divine sacrifice on their planet, and their bodies already having been resurrected (if dead) or changed (if alive) into immortal bodies (which the saved still await on this planet: 1 Corinthians 15:51-53), so that they became like/equal to the angels of God in heaven (cf. Matthew 22:30, Luke 20:36), so that many of the entities which we call "angels" could have started out as what we would call "aliens" on other planets.

If even some unresurrected humans on this planet can sometimes be called "angels" (in the sense of "messengers"; see Luke 7:24 in the original Greek), then some redeemed aliens on other planets who have been resurrected or changed into immortal bodies could have been assigned by God to serve as angels/messengers of God to minister to the unresurrected elect on this planet (cf. Hebrews 1:14). And once the saved on this planet have been resurrected into immortality, and become like/equal to the angels of God in heaven (Matthew 22:30, Luke 20:36), some of them could be assigned by God to other fallen planets which haven't yet been regenerated, to serve as angels/messengers of God to minister to the unresurrected elect on those planets.

We really need to get away from every form of geocentrism. Just as it was a mistake for some believers to refuse to accept for so long the fact that the earth isn't the physical center of the universe, indeed, isn't even the physical center of our solar system, so it is a mistake for some believers to refuse to accept the very real possibility that the earth isn't the spiritual center of the universe either, but could be just one of a trillion inhabited planets in the universe, all filled with worshippers of God. And there could be trillions of other universes outside our own, filled with a googolplex of inhabited planets (or other structures which we can't even imagine). We infinitesimal humans on this one, infinitesimal planet really need to have some sense of humility (Isaiah 40:15,17, Psalms 8:3-4).

--

Some people say that aliens created humans. But the existence of aliens doesn't require that they, instead of God, created humans on this planet. For God himself could have directly created both humans on this planet and aliens on other planets (cf. John 1:3). Also, if someone were to claim that aliens created Adam (the forbear of all presently-existing humans on this planet) instead of YHWH God creating Adam, that claim would be false, for it would contradict the Bible's teaching that YHWH God himself created Adam (Genesis 2:7).

Some people feel that the Antichrist's future, one-world religion will teach that Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) is an alien who created humans on this planet. But while the Antichrist's future one-world religion will indeed be Luciferian (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), it will at the same time also be Gnostic, denying that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3; 2 John 1:7) and utterly reviling YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:31). And it wouldn't make sense for this religion to say that Lucifer is an alien who created humans on this planet. For the reason that Gnosticism reviles YHWH is because he is the Creator of all human fleshly bodies. So it would be better for believers not to worry too much about an "alien deception", and start arming themselves against the Gnostic deception, which happened to have also been one of the main enemies of the early church.
 
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Jipsah

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So called aliens are the gods of old, the fallen angels that share our fallen domain, yet they are 'superdimensional' or 'paranormal', can hide and 'manifest'.
You can conjure them too.
What aliens? I love the debate over whether aliens are demons or ETs, when the fact is there aren't any aliens.

They have been known to man for ages, as 'ancestors' or 'gods' or 'demons' etcetera.
Ah, secuse me, but I'm of the opinion that ancestors are just folks with descendants. I'm an ancestor, but I object strenuously to being considered a demon.
 
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Jipsah

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That is true - but that view - (like creationism vs evolutionism )-- will become increasingly less acceptable to the masses.
Where are those aliens, Bob? Other than on teevee. "Surrender, earthlings, or we will destroy your planet!" Those aren't demons, they're just actors wearing masks.
 
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Hieronymus

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Ah, secuse me, but I'm of the opinion that ancestors are just folks with descendants. I'm an ancestor, but I object strenuously to being considered a demon.[/QUOTE]
Where are those aliens, Bob? Other than on teevee. "Surrender, earthlings, or we will destroy your planet!" Those aren't demons, they're just actors wearing masks.
Glad to hear you have studied this subject so thoroughly.
 
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BobRyan

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NASA May 10, 2016
"Before the Kepler space telescope launched, we did not know whether exoplanets were rare or common in the galaxy. Thanks to Kepler and the research community, we now know there could be more planets than stars,” said Paul Hertz, Astrophysics Division director at NASA Headquarters. "This knowledge informs the future missions that are needed to take us ever-closer to finding out whether we are alone in the universe."
http://www.nasa.gov/press-release/n...largest-collection-of-planets-ever-discovered

NASA's Kepler mission has verified 1,284 new planets – the single largest finding of planets to date.

“This announcement more than doubles the number of confirmed planets from Kepler,” said Ellen Stofan, chief scientist at NASA Headquarters in Washington. “This gives us hope that somewhere out there, around a star much like ours, we can eventually discover another Earth.”

"Analysis was performed on the Kepler space telescope’s July 2015 planet candidate catalog, which identified 4,302 potential planets. For 1,284 of the candidates, the probability of being a planet is greater than 99 percent – the minimum required to earn the status of “planet.” An additional 1,327 candidates are more likely than not to be actual planets, but they do not meet the 99 percent threshold and will require additional study. The remaining 707 are more likely to be some other astrophysical phenomena."


quotes are also from: http://www.nasa.gov/press-release/n...largest-collection-of-planets-ever-discovered
==================================


The EarthSky publication makes this comment -

"And how likely is it that this life will develop intelligence? This remains an open question (which is scientist-speak for “we haven’t got a clue”). But many scientists consider intelligent life almost inevitable, in which case the galaxy should be teaming with alien civilizations."
http://earthsky.org/space/intelligent-life-universe-aliens-contact#

One thing to notice is that these quoted sources consider the "origin" - the "mechanism" for getting intelligent life on all those zillions of planets - is ... what I call "blind faith evolutionism".

Where are those aliens, Bob? Other than on teevee. .

Is this a joke? Did you read the material in the OP ???
 
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BobRyan

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What aliens? I love the debate over whether aliens are demons or ETs, when the fact is there aren't any aliens.
.

err...umm... because you think "All the Angels in the Bible were born in New Jersey"?? (Or do you say that because you personally visited every solar system in the universe and you found that all the inhabitable planets are empty)

What makes you think God created a zillion inhabitable planets in our galaxy so they could 'remain empty'??

"In November 2013, astronomers reported, based on Kepler space mission data, that there could be as many as 40 billion Earth-sized planets orbiting in the habitable zones of Sun-like stars and red dwarfs in the Milky Way, 11 billion of which may be orbiting Sun-like stars."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_potentially_habitable_exoplanets
 
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BobRyan

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Some people feel that Christians mustn't believe in the existence of aliens, for then Christians could be deceived by entities such as Satan and other fallen angelic beings or demons claiming to be aliens.

Since none of those angels (good or bad) are "from New Jersey" - they are "by definition" - aliens. next.

But the existence of aliens doesn't require that all aliens must be good, just as the existence of angels doesn't require that all angels must be good.

Well we have some bad angels - and that by definition is "bad aliens" since none of them are from Earth originally.

Christians would have to evaluate the goodness of any alien in the same way that they would have to evaluate the goodness of any angel: by the doctrine that he teaches (Galatians 1:8)

That is true - but the angel is also an alien. The point that is being made in one of these scenarios is that all you are really doing is evaluating the doctrine of good vs bad angels - and that the other forms of alien intelligent life - simply do not show up around here at all.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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BobRyan

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Christians would have to evaluate the goodness of any alien in the same way that they would have to evaluate the goodness of any angel: by the doctrine that he teaches (Galatians 1:8), by his faithfulness to God's Word the Bible (2 Timothy 4:2-4; 1 Timothy 4:1, John 8:31b, Matthew 4:4), by his obedience to YHWH God (Mark 12:29-31, Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18b). Also, the Bible doesn't say that Satan appears as a good alien, but it does say that he can appear as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14). So worrying about being deceived only by aliens is a dangerous distraction.

Adam and Eve were only looking for a "bad angel" --- not a "talking snake".

Bad angels are a concern still today - so also every game they play from talking snake Gen 3, to fake-Samuel 1 Sam 28, to fake-good-angel 2 Cor 11... to some other sort of alien besides their own kind of alien in that specrum between snake and shining angel.
 
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BobRyan

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The universe is so vast, with something like 100 billion galaxies, each containing something like 100 billion stars, that even if only one star out of every 10 billion stars has a planet with intelligent life on it, there would still be a trillion inhabited planets. This would be to the great glory of God, for he is the Creator of everything (Revelation 4:11). God could deal with intelligent life on other planets in the same way that he deals with people on the earth: Some individuals could go to a heaven when they die, while others could go to a hell. Or the intelligent life on some other planets may have never fallen into sin, like Adam and Eve did, so that the intelligent life on those planets never became mortal. Any such unfallen, intelligent life could be living in sinless, immortal bliss on their planets, like Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden before their fall.

Consider for a moment that the second scenario is the right one in your list above. Consider also that Lucifer (Satan) was one of the most powerful and intelligent beings ever created - and now he and his fellow fiends have this for 'home base'. How many of those sinless "aliens" do you think are showing up here "for a picnic" or just to do some aerial maneuvers ??

Rather it is much more likely that this war zone is not a vacation spot at all for them.


Some people feel that aliens can't exist because the Bible makes no mention of them. But not everything that exists has to be mentioned in the Bible (cf. John 21:25). For example, the Bible makes no mention of Velcro,

Some would say that in Job 1 and in Job 2 you have true aliens from other worlds - and that Satan shows up as the representative of this world. In Matt 4 and Luke 4 Satan claims this world has been turned over to him - (essentially by default - due to Adam's sin). Rev 12 also pictures Satan as specifically on Earth.

In the Bible - God made the Earth and all life on it - and handed it to Adam. Adam falls and abdicates his authority to Satan - and the Bible says Satan is "the god of this world" 2Cor 4:4 - and he also claims it before Christ in Matt 4 and Luke 4.

But then in Matt 5:5 and in Rev 21 - the saints "inherit the earth" so it goes back to its rightful owner in the end.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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Hieronymus

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err...umm... because you think "All the Angels in the Bible were born in New Jersey"?? (Or do you say that because you personally visited every solar system in the universe and you found that all the inhabitable planets are empty)

What makes you think God created a zillion inhabitable planets in our galaxy so they could 'remain empty'??

"In November 2013, astronomers reported, based on Kepler space mission data, that there could be as many as 40 billion Earth-sized planets orbiting in the habitable zones of Sun-like stars and red dwarfs in the Milky Way, 11 billion of which may be orbiting Sun-like stars."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_potentially_habitable_exoplanets
Ah, yes, but doesn't an eco-system of some sorts make and keep a planet habitable?
There are quite a bunch of premises to be met for life, not to mention a life-giver.
 
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BobRyan

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Ah, yes, but doesn't an eco-system of some sorts make and keep a planet habitable?
There are quite a bunch of premises to be met for life, not to mention a life-giver.

Life does not just "pop out of rocks and water" no matter what atheists say to the contrary. (As we all know). So then you are right - there is the "life giver" that creates all life "after its kind" -- and example of a "kind" in Genesis 1 is "mankind".

So then in a single rotation of the planet - God created plants, then a few days later - fish and birds in a single rotation of the planet. Then the next day - land animals and mankind - all in one single rotation.

Taking a page from the evolutionist's handbook - I would then say "it probably happened on other planets in a similar way as it happened on Earth" -- :).
 
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Show me an actual "alien" in this sense, and then the question will be worth answering. Until then, it is nothing but idle speculation with no value or point.

As in "Show me an actual fallen angel that was not born in New Jersey"??

Or as in "Show me an actual talking snake and then I will begin to think about what to say to it"??

Which one are you referencing?


Or do you mean "show me an actual alien from another planet visiting earth - even though you claim they don't do this - and then we can talk about it"???

The bible is filled with historic incidents where humans claim to have talked to an angel.
 
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Life does not just "pop out of rocks and water" no matter what atheists say to the contrary. (As we all know). So then you are right - there is the "life giver" that creates all life "after its kind" -- and example of a "kind" in Genesis 1 is "mankind".
The complexity of living nature is also WAY higher than 'the dead universe'.
We (humanity by means of science) are still discovering how complex it actually is.
So then in a single rotation of the planet - God created plants, then a few days later - fish and birds in a single rotation of the planet. Then the next day - land animals and mankind - all in one single rotation.
Unbelievable.
As in: We are not able to believe that rationally.
It's just unimaginable.
Taking a page from the evolutionist's handbook - I would then say "it probably happened on other planets in a similar way as it happened on Earth" -- :).
:D
 
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