Hell.....

[Linet Kihonge]

Harmatology 101: Sin is inevitable and we like mere men are made of miry clay and exposed to sin in one way or another and more often than not, fell into the temptation.

Otherwise, sin is pretty simple. For one to be fully accepted as a reformed addict the person has to admit they in-deed are addicts! The first step to full recovery is acknowledging how weak and susceptible to sin we may always be. Therefore, if I decided to open a company and give it to an addict what would be the outcome? There will be dark days because some cash has gone where it was never meant to go. So if I need to be sure that the company will be successful I will need to be sure that the addict has fully accepted his condition.

Same thing, unless we are repentant the LORD would not be sure if he'll be handling 100% sober lot. Hell, the last thing he needs is another rebellion and he's back to Genesis. So the only people who'll be entering heaven are those who not only know they are prone to backsliding but were commendable in trying to keep up with his good word. All Christians are Recovering Sinners, The LORD is the Rehab and the BIBLE is his Manual!!!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So I have seen lately that Hell is getting redefined to not really be a place of torment but just the fact that since God is everywhere than it will be awful for non Christians and to them that will be Hell. I was surprised to learn that the idea of Hell that many Christians know has not always existed. I was taught that Hell was a real place so is it real or just a state of mind?

As you've seen (reading posts and threads just here, let alone outside here),
no one can find out the truth of a matter 'here' where every school of thought exists(or just 'many', practically).
Everyone just goes back and forth , this one to that one, not ever finding out ....
Oh,
there is a way to achieve some certainty of knowledge of the truth,
but again, not if you just ask 50 people and get 50 replies.

I just saw this in someone elses sig: To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.

And wherever you or anyone goes , tries to go, or decides to go, remember that applies.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Do you have any idea of how many millions of people have never even heard of Hell or the gospel of Christ in the past 2,000 years?

God chooses to show mercy on some. It's His choice.

God question.
This spirit led commentator appears to explain it fairly well...imho:

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/savior/SOW1.htm

God Will Have All Men Be Saved

On this earth there are more than seven billion people! The most populous lands are China, India, and other parts of Asia, and in spite of missionaries from the West, actually more than half of all people on the earth have never so much as heard the ONLY NAME BY WHICH MEN MAY BE SAVED - the name of JESUS CHRIST! For your Bible says....... "there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).
This means that billions of people here on this earth have lived, and died, without having known anything about God's provision of salvation - without saving knowledge - neither having heard the only name by which men may be saved! Now think what that means. If all unsaved are eternally lost, then more than HALF the people who have ever lived on this earth have been consigned to eternal hell without ever having been given so much as a chance to escape it!

What about the millions of people living now in the modern nations of Red China where the Gospel is suppressed? Those people did not choose to be born into these godless nations. Are they lost forever because they never heard the true message of God's love in Christ? Is this their only day of salvation? Are they eternally doomed when they die? Will a just God and Saviour condemn to eternal damnation those people who died before the true Gospel was ever brought to them? Is God about to "shut the door" of mercy in their face?

We hear much today about evangelizing and saving the world in one generation. The preachers tell us this mission must be accomplished before Christ can return, and it must be done in this generation. We hear of glorious revival at home and abroad, of fresh missionary efforts in various directions, of great Crusades attended by tens and sometimes hundreds of thousands, of radio and television beamed by satellite to all the nations of earth, and of large sums being devoted to these endeavors: and we get the idea that adequate efforts are being made for the evangelization of the nations of the earth.

It is estimated today that the world's population is over seven billion, and it is a fact that considerably more than one-half - nearly two-thirds - are still TOTALLY HEATHEN, and the remainder are mostly either followers of Mohammed or members of those great apostate Churches whose religion is practically a Christianized idolatry, and who can scarcely be said to hold or teach the Gospel of Christ.

And what about the multiplied billions who have gone before and never had any contact with the living Christ? Even if all the people of this one generation could be saved, it would be only a infinitesimal fraction of the people who have ever lived, and there would be no victory for God, for the devil would still possess the vast majority of mankind. It is estimated that about one hundred and sixty billions of human beings have lived on the earth in the six thousand years since Adam's creation. Of these, the very broadest estimate that could be made with reason would be that less than three billion were truly saints of God..............................



.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

God question.
This spirit led commentator appears to explain it fairly well...imho:

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/savior/SOW1.htm

God Will Have All Men Be Saved

On this earth there are more than seven billion people! The most populous lands are China, India, and other parts of Asia, and in spite of missionaries from the West, actually more than half of all people on the earth have never so much as heard the ONLY NAME BY WHICH MEN MAY BE SAVED - the name of JESUS CHRIST! For your Bible says....... "there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).
This means that billions of people here on this earth have lived, and died, without having known anything about God's provision of salvation - without saving knowledge - neither having heard the only name by which men may be saved! Now think what that means. If all unsaved are eternally lost, then more than HALF the people who have ever lived on this earth have been consigned to eternal hell without ever having been given so much as a chance to escape it!

What about the millions of people living now in the modern nations of Red China where the Gospel is suppressed? Those people did not choose to be born into these godless nations. Are they lost forever because they never heard the true message of God's love in Christ? Is this their only day of salvation? Are they eternally doomed when they die? Will a just God and Saviour condemn to eternal damnation those people who died before the true Gospel was ever brought to them? Is God about to "shut the door" of mercy in their face?

We hear much today about evangelizing and saving the world in one generation. The preachers tell us this mission must be accomplished before Christ can return, and it must be done in this generation. We hear of glorious revival at home and abroad, of fresh missionary efforts in various directions, of great Crusades attended by tens and sometimes hundreds of thousands, of radio and television beamed by satellite to all the nations of earth, and of large sums being devoted to these endeavors: and we get the idea that adequate efforts are being made for the evangelization of the nations of the earth.

It is estimated today that the world's population is over seven billion, and it is a fact that considerably more than one-half - nearly two-thirds - are still TOTALLY HEATHEN, and the remainder are mostly either followers of Mohammed or members of those great apostate Churches whose religion is practically a Christianized idolatry, and who can scarcely be said to hold or teach the Gospel of Christ.

And what about the multiplied billions who have gone before and never had any contact with the living Christ? Even if all the people of this one generation could be saved, it would be only a infinitesimal fraction of the people who have ever lived, and there would be no victory for God, for the devil would still possess the vast majority of mankind. It is estimated that about one hundred and sixty billions of human beings have lived on the earth in the six thousand years since Adam's creation. Of these, the very broadest estimate that could be made with reason would be that less than three billion were truly saints of God..............................



.

Saving the world? yakaa Deeper Fellowship has a few of those threads too posted by Goodnewsinc

Preston Eby reveals how God showed him that He would save all mankind through the finished work of the Cross of Christ

 

[sculleywr]

So is the question "Hell can't be the Lord's verdict because it shows another side of him that doesn't sound like the One we've been reading and preached to? Or is the question the LORD's not responsible for those who go to hell?

The LORD does not delight in people going to hell and neither will he be singing "Kumbaya" with all his Saints when he finally punished all the sinners to Hades. I don't think that's his mission. If I were to be asked, the LORD has every intention of letting anyone who lives in wickedness know there's light and there is a darkeness, there is hell and there's a heaven and man is the one chose his destination. So Antletems, you are right we are the ones who will decide what our fate should be like.

However, even we lead whatever kinds of life here on earth the LORD has the right to pass judgement for the sake of HIM being GOD and to keep his word to the last letter. So, He's not out there to take us to damnation but to everlasting life. However, he can't pester us to join his fold, nor walk according to his statues all he will do, he will convince us of his presence, challenge our moral views and in his own ways, ask us if we believe in his SON or Not. :/

The Lord is love. Love is defined in I Corinthians 13. EVERYTHING about a being that tortures people for no constructive purpose contradicts I Corinthians 13.

 

[topcare]

May be simple to you but even professing your belief doesn't mean you wont trip up and allow the devil to turn you to sin! I wish i was a strong as you my friend as i know i am a big sinner. I do try every day to be pure and sin free. If i dont then i turn to God and ask for forgiveness plus go to confession.

I'm not strong, I'm a realist who takes God at His Word.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

The Lord is love. Love is defined in I Corinthians 13. EVERYTHING about a being that tortures people for no constructive purpose contradicts I Corinthians 13.

Does it mean he should entertain everything?

 

[sculleywr]

Does it mean he should entertain everything?

Entertain has nothing to do with this. Torture is contrary to love. Just like you can't have antimatter and matter in one space, you cannot have a person who is perfectly loving and tortures people.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

Entertain has nothing to do with this. Torture is contrary to love. Just like you can't have antimatter and matter in one space, you cannot have a person who is perfectly loving and tortures people.

Listen, the statement doesn't make it any easier on His Side either (Darned if he sentences mankind to damnation, darned if he lets mankind inherit everlasting heavens). He has rules, he has laws, he has STANDARDS, so we have two things to consider to do what we feel like or do what he asks us. He may sound a little bit too authoritarian but it's his earth, his rules Period.

 

[Timothew]

So I have seen lately that Hell is getting redefined to not really be a place of torment but just the fact that since God is everywhere than it will be awful for non Christians and to them that will be Hell. I was surprised to learn that the idea of Hell that many Christians know has not always existed. I was taught that Hell was a real place so is it real or just a state of mind?

The word that is translated as "Hell" in Matthew 10:28 is Gehenna, a valley outside of Jerusalem. Gehenna is a real place. Read what Jesus said will happen to those in Gehenna in that verse: "Fear the one who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna."

So "Hell" is a real place, a valley outside Jerusalem. But it is not a place of eternal torment, it is a place where the soul and body are destroyed. John 3:16 says "Whosover believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life." That says what the fate of those who reject Christ is. They perish. Paul said in Romans 6:23 that the wages of sin is DEATH, but the gift of God is eternal LIFE in Christ Jesus our Lord. The only way to receive immortality is by receiving immortality from God as a gift. Those who reject Christ do not receive the gift of eternal life, they perish. They do not inherit eternal life just to be eternally tormented, they do not inherit eternal life at all.

 

[Timothew]

The Bible as well as other religions speak of hell as a real place. It says the unsaved will be tortured for an eternity.

Since the Bible says that, it is settled then. By the way, which verse in the Bible says "the unsaved will be tortured for an eternity"? I see where the Bible says that the wages of sin is death. But that is the exact opposite of being tortured for an eternity. But I want to believe you instead of what I read in the Bible in case I read it wrong. So please Sir, where specifically does the Bible say that the unsaved will be tortured for all eternity?

 

[Timothew]

We will try to limit our comments to "just the Bible" if they get to anything that this area of the board might not allow.

if there are texts we need to avoid quoting - please let us know.

I need to know this as well.

Could I get a list of all of the verses that are forbidden on Christian Forums?
I know that John 3:16, Romans 6:23 and 2 Thessalonians 1:9 are definitely on that list.
Why aren't we allowed to discuss the destruction of the wicked when that is exactly what the Bible says?

 

[Timothew]

I will say that Jesus Christ spoke more about hell than heaven...

I've also heard other people say that Jesus spoke more about hell than heaven, however when I read the gospels and read the number of times Jesus spoke of Hell and of Heaven, Jesus spoke MUCH more about heaven than of hell. You should go look for yourself.

And when Jesus DID speak of Hell in Matthew 10:28, He said Himself that the soul and body would be destroyed there. So, the little that Jesus spoke of Hell indicates the destruction of the unrepentant in hell, not their eternal torture.

 

[Timothew]

You can discuss any scripture texts, but anyone who wants to say the Nicene Creed or any of it's points are wrong, they can't do that in any Christian Only Forums.

BUT it can be discussed in Controversial theology.

I will edit the Mod Hat to say that.

Which part of the Nicene Creed do Annihilationists think is wrong?

 

[Truthfrees]

Which part of the Nicene Creed do Annihilationists think is wrong?

I'm not sure, but they can only discuss that in Controversial Theology forum!

Christian Only Forums and Exploring Christianity forum posts must not disagree with the Nicene Creed!

 

[Timothew]

Dear topcare. Hell is in Outer Space...

Amen, Just like it says in the Bible, "Hell is in Outer Space". It's good that people are finally putting an end to all of the speculation about Hell and just saying what the Bible itself says. "Hell is in Outer Space".

Just to refresh my poor memory, which verse is it that says "Hell is in Outer Space" again?

 

[Timothew]

I'm not sure, but they can only discuss that in Controversial Theology forum!

Christian Only Forums and Exploring Christianity forum posts must not disagree with the Nicene Creed!

Thanks!

I can assure you that I do not disagree with any part of the Nicene Creed, although since I believe what the Bible says, I have to disagree with the doctrine of eternal conscious torment in hell. Since the doctrine of eternal conscious torment in hell disagrees with the Nicene Creed, promotion of eternal torment in hell is also not allowed here.

 

[Timothew]

Looking at the references to hell in Matthew, I see

“thrown into hell” (5:29)
God can destroy people in hell (10:28)
“thrown into hell” 18:9
“sentenced to hell” 23:33

and that’s just what I turned up in a few seconds. Whatever hell is, I think it’s pretty obvious that God puts people there.

I also think that’s the only view that makes sense. Hell is a result of God’s commitment to make the world right. He has to get rid of evildoers that don’t repent, since without repentance they can’t be safely put with the lambs.

I’m not saying any more about hell: who will go there, or whether it’s eternal punishment or something else. There are passages that can be read in different ways. But I don’t see any plausible way to avoid the existence of hell in some form, nor of the concept that God makes sure that unrepentant people (if any) are put there.

I think we can find out just from the verses you quoted whether hell is a place of eternal conscious torment or a place where people are destroyed. You said "God can destroy people in hell". There you go, if Matthew 10:28 is true, then God can destroy both the soul and body in hell. If Matthew 10:28 is true, then eternal conscious torment is not true.

Does anyone want to say that Jesus Christ was wrong in Matthew 10:28? Or is it that Matthew heard Jesus wrong?
Or should we all accept what Jesus said, and put this issue to rest once and for all? That there is no eternal conscious torment in hell, the wicked will perish just like it says in the Bible.

 

[hedrick]

I think we can find out just from the verses you quoted whether hell is a place of eternal conscious torment or a place where people are destroyed.

Possibly we can. But I'm a moderator, and thus committed to following the rules. One of them says that this position can only be discussed in Controversial Theology.

 

[Timothew]

Possibly we can. But I'm a moderator, and thus committed to following the rules. One of them says that this position can only be discussed in Controversial Theology.

Well, we have determined that Jesus Christ taught that the soul and body can be destroyed.
Acts 5:29
But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men."