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BobRyan

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I was always taught demons can take on any form. And its why some of their forms are as "UFOs". They do this so we believe in false things. And so we focus less on God because we more focused on their being fake life outside the planet. If you look online there are over 49,000,000 results for UFO related stuff. Shows you how hard the devil works.

In the classic UFO culture - there is evolution, no Bible, no Christianity - just evolution and the claim that aliens want to come here and blink their lights at us in the sky. Their claim is that once the aliens land and introduce themselves - our religion is tossed out the window.
 
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BobRyan

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The idea that "the entire universe of zillions of planets is empty except for Earth" is a leftover from the dark ages.

People who say that don't claim to have been there -- they simply state a guess, a preference. Modern science no longer supports it - and the Bible does not support it.

Empty of sentient life? We haven't seen any.

We had not seen any planets at all outside our solar system as of the 1980's. But observation in this one indicates that this is how a solar system works. And sure enough - tons of planets out there! 10x more than the Drake equation was assuming to start with.

So maybe the folks in the Dark Ages were right about that one,

Siding with the dark ages is not the stroke of genius that a few people have imagined to themselves. This has been proven over and over again.

The Bible is silent on the subject as well.

Until you read it - in places like Job 1 and 2, Heb 1 and Heb 11.

One interesting question, though. If there are lifeforms out there (not angels and demons,

There are angels and demons. And they are real physical beings. The fact that radar cannot detect a stealth bomber does not mean that the bomber is not physical.

Again - leaving the dark ages - we leave behind some dark-ages-thinking.



and they're as old or older as species than we are, where are their RF signatures? We ought to be hearing their radio frequency noise from all directions, but apart from some naturally occurring RF propagation, all we here from Out There is silence.

That is one of the complaints people offer against the Drake equation (which is now known by empirical evidence to have vastly underestimated the case for intelligent life). Some folks ask about all the EM signatures that would be in the RF range if all those worlds came up through our same corrupt-the-earth self-destroying path in forming their civilizations.

Three problems with that gross assumption.

1. Angels travel from earth to heaven and thus we know without any doubt that non-God - created beings can navigate distances that would require faster-than-light travel. So we know with certainty - it is possible. we just don't know how to do it.

2. Civilized cultures have the need for real-time or near-real-time communication... no matter the distances. We can see that in our own world - after the dark ages.

3. In a universe where planets with intelligent life on them are many light years apart - EM speed is wayyy too slow, be it in the RF band or not.

Even at the level of our own extremely limited science compared to other worlds - we know of a mechanism that solves the problem and does not use RF signatures of any kind. Quantum entanglement at the level of photons has been demonstrated - and it amounts to instant communication where the factor of distance does not matter. Experiments have already been done to show that this should be possible at the macro level.

So taking a crude example as illustration. Two TV cameras where the feed from their digital converters have a very short segment that is quantum entangled between the two. The active recording camera would be "transmitting" its video instantly to the paired Camera x-lightyears away. Distance does not matter in quantum physics when it comes to QE. (Not really transmitted - more like "impelling")

The point is that-- it is totally impractical for such civilizations to restrict themselves to the turtle-slow EM solution that works so well on a single planet but is useless across lightyears of space. Just as we would not get a bunch of turtles and attach messages to them - and send them across the continent as our "practical form of communication".

If the argument is that all other planets would have been forced to deluge their worlds in RF noise at some early stage of development - because we did that to ourselves -- is a bit of a leap. I am more inclined to believe that sinless worlds would have had clean water, clean air, pure food and clean EM bands.
 
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Jipsah

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Jipsah

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We know from the Bible that Angels are not from earth and there are good ones... and there are evil ones. And they are both here among us.
Heard ya the first time, and answered. You must have missed it. :oldthumbsup:

In modern ufology - there is no God, no trustworthy Bible, no devil -- just mankind, evolutionism and aliens who are mostly friendly and they seem to want to come to earth at times and do aerial tricks in the sky for us.
And is also a made-up strawman for you to whack. Unfortunately, whacking if does nothing to support your premise that there are demons posing as aliens anywhere. If fact, you're accepting the claim of the ufo loonies that any flying thing they can't recognize is an interstellar spacecraft, which is in itself dumber than dirt. Even MUFON says that only about 5% of reported sightings of "UFOs" remain unidentified upon investigation. The most commonly found identified sources of UFO reports are:
Astronomical objects (bright stars, planets, meteors, re-entering man-made spacecraft, artificial satellites, and the Moon), Aircraft (aerial advertising and other aircraft, missile launches), Balloons (toy balloons, weather balloons, large research balloons),Other atmospheric objects and phenomena (birds, unusual clouds, kites, flares),Light phenomena mirages, Fata Morgana, ball lightning, moon dogs, searchlights and other ground lights, etc., and Hoaxes.

UNfortunately, UFO enthusiasts and credulous Christians are willing, no, eager, to believe that any light in the sky that they don't immediately recognize is either an alien from Planet Drelb, or a demon from hell. Sad, isn't it?

as Christians we should not be so easily duped into going along with that counterfeit story line they offer.
Does that include Christians posting warning against the demonic nature of "aliens"that exist only in the fevered imaginations of "ufologists"?
 
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Jipsah

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We had not seen any planets at all outside our solar system as of the 1980's. But observation in this one indicates that this is how a solar system works. And sure enough - tons of planets out there! 10x more than the Drake equation was assuming to start with.
Which says nothing at all about whether sentient lifeforms are there or not. No data is no data.

Siding with the dark ages is not the stroke of genius that a few people have imagined to themselves. This has been proven over and over again.
OK, gimme some data that you
you've acquired on these aliens/demons and maybe you can enlighten me out of the Dark Ages. <Laugh>

There are angels and demons. And they are real physical beings. The fact that radar cannot detect a stealth bomber does not mean that the bomber is not physical.
And the existence of angels and demons has what, in your opinion, to do with the idea that there are sentient lifeforms, the "aliens" so beloved of ufoloonies and EndTimes syncretists, anywhere?

Again - leaving the dark ages - we leave behind some dark-ages-thinking.
Somehow, the idea that anyone who God may have created other then terrestrial humans must necessarily ber a "demon" is pretty dang Dark Ages in itself. Not to mention profoundly dumb.

The last bit is interesting in that you've not only embraced the idea of ET aliens on zero evidence, but have they're sinless, they have FTL communications across interstellar distances, that their habitats are pristine and unpolluted, and that they're vastly superior to us. That's all pretty amazing, give that there's as yet no evidence at all that there's anyone out there, and that you've just recently told us that what appear to be ET aliens must necessarily be demons. Spounds more than a little schizoid, and maybe just a tad delusional.

Is this all part of the SDA official eschatology? If so, where does it come from? It appears to be made up from whole cloth and have nothing even remotely to do with any Scripture at all. Is this from some private revelation or what?
 
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AmericanChristian91

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With the universe being so large, I think there is a strong possibility that God made the universe not just for Man to live in.

I don't think Aliens have reached earth because of the vast size of the universe and the strong possibility that FTL travel is impossible.

But to conclude, I don't believe the possibility of intelligent non-human life (alien or an AI) is a threat to our faith.
 
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AmericanChristian91

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The whole point of the universe is in the bible. It was to show his power, beauty...etc. It was made for us, to worship Him in amazement.

Yes the universe, specficially planet Earth was made with Humanity in mind. But that being the case doesn't disprove the belief that God created other intelligent life to share this universe.

Just as Earth came about because of God's plan for humanity, other planets somewhere else in the universe can come about with Alien Intelligent life arising because God wills it and has other plans for this Alien life.

The universe IS big enough for us and Aliens :)

Plenty of room to go around.
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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Well theres the fact also that He never talks about any other planets/people because we are the only ones. He wouldn't hide other creations from us then not tell us, because He would be lying. Which He cannot do. And in the end times theres nothing that hints about anything having to do with those "other people". All this aside theres never been any proof of aliens or UFOs.
 
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AmericanChristian91

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God does not reveal all knowledge about the universe to humanity. So him not
Mentioning aliens would not be surprising since there is other things about the universe that arnt mentioned in the bible. Besides whether or not aliens exist, isn't important when it comes to Gods plan for humanity. Also it wouldn't be lying either. A lie would be If God told us ET life doesn't exist when in fact it did.
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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So would you be saying that on some other planet, maybe on the other side of the universe there is a smart species like yourself that God created. Whom He also gave them their own alien bible? Seems a little silly. The bible is for mankind because we are His creations. It is the Word. So there can't possibly be another bible out there. Or another species. He created us in His image after all. Hence mankind.

I will say, only as part of the discussion.... technically He wouldn't mention life on another planet because back at the time of its writing people would have no idea what that even means. Other creations like on other planets. I'm sure they wouldn't have even understood what that mean. Or what a planet was. But I still don't believe in aliens anyways. I can sense they are evil in nature. Hence demons we sometimes record on film as UFOs.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Where are those aliens, Bob? Other than on teevee. "Surrender, earthlings, or we will destroy your planet!"
Those aren't demons, they're just actors wearing masks.
Don't forget movies.
I sometimes wonder if there are real ET Aliens that walk amongst us but we can't see.
Brings to mind this movie shown below:

Job 19:15
Those who dwell in my house, and my maidservants,
Count me as a stranger;
I am an alien in their sight.



Psa 69:8

I have become a stranger to my brothers,
And an alien to my mother's children;



..........................................................................





.
 

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BobRyan

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I will say, only as part of the discussion.... technically He wouldn't mention life on another planet because back at the time of its writing people would have no idea what that even means. .

In which case the Bible makes no reference to heaven, God's throne.. Angels...

And clearly that has not proven to be the case.
 
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BobRyan

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BobRyan said:
We know from the Bible that Angels are not from earth and there are good ones... and there are evil ones. And they are both here among us.

Heard ya the first time,

Well then it is settled.

If fact, you're accepting the claim of the ufo loonies that any flying thing they can't recognize is an interstellar spacecraft, which is in itself dumber than dirt. Even MUFON says that only about 5% of reported sightings of "UFOs" remain unidentified upon investigation.

The only person talking about MUFON and which sightings are faked or real or whatever -- is you.

I have been talking Keppler, the Bible, the Drake equation and actual science.

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"???
 
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BobRyan

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How you get from this --

==========================

BobRyan said:


the OP leaves little doubt that there is life outside of our planet from "observing" that there are more planets than stars and so even from the atheist POV -- no Creator God at all -- there is even in that limited view a degree of certainty that life exists beyond this one planet.

But as for the Bible statement that our World - is not the only World in the universe and that life is not confined to this one planet in all the universe.

Heb 1
Heb 11
Job 1, Job 2.

Heb 1
God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;

Heb 11
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.
3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

Job 1
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”
So Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”

Luke 4
5 And he (Satan) led Him(Jesus) up and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 6 And the devil said to Him, “I will give You all this domain and its glory; for it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish.

2 Cor 4:4
4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

====================

In the Bible - there are in fact "other worlds".
In the Bible - there came a time when the representatives of each of those worlds came to present themselves before the Lord -- and Satan came with them - representing Earth - since Adam gave him the keys to the place.
There is life beyond Earth.

==================================

To "Mufon" -- is anybody's guess
 
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BobRyan

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And yet -- there is an "instructive point of reference" so far ...

Wednesday at 9:51 AM #46

====================================================

Seen any demons disguised as aliens? Neither has anyone else.

I haven't seen any demons showing up in the form of dead ancestors or friends either. Does that mean they never do it??? really?

I've seen no reliable reports of that, either.

(thanks - a helpful point of reference.)

And did you also "not see it" in 1 Sam 28?

"Conjur up for me by thy familiar spirit - whomever I shall name" 1 Sam 28
 
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DennisTate

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A near death experiencer came back from his brush with death
with the impression that aliens.... (or are they a type of angel) ...
have UFO technology and played a role in the miracles of the Jewish Bible.

"What about beings from other planets, do you think they visit here?
Yes I do. And I think those who have been permitted to cross over into our world have been doing so for a very long time now (for a very important purpose) as Divinely arranged by Heaven. Since my NDE, because of a few things I was shown, it is now my deep belief that some of the more phenomenal events depicted in the Old Testament (such as the Great flood of Noah, the parting of the Red Sea for Moses, the mass explosion of Sodom and Gomorrah, etc) are not only very true, but were moments in time which were orchestrated and performed by beings of a much higher order and intelligence than our ownwho may have volunteered their technology and understandings or even sent to help guide and shape a culture within humanity during a pressing time within its development and evolution." (Christian Andreason, chapter 2 of online book)


NASA's Kepler mission has verified 1,284 new planets – the single largest finding of planets to date.

“This announcement more than doubles the number of confirmed planets from Kepler,” said Ellen Stofan, chief scientist at NASA Headquarters in Washington. “This gives us hope that somewhere out there, around a star much like ours, we can eventually discover another Earth.”

"Analysis was performed on the Kepler space telescope’s July 2015 planet candidate catalog, which identified 4,302 potential planets. For 1,284 of the candidates, the probability of being a planet is greater than 99 percent – the minimum required to earn the status of “planet.” An additional 1,327 candidates are more likely than not to be actual planets, but they do not meet the 99 percent threshold and will require additional study. The remaining 707 are more likely to be some other astrophysical phenomena."


quotes are also from: http://www.nasa.gov/press-release/n...largest-collection-of-planets-ever-discovered
==================================


The EarthSky publication makes this comment -

"And how likely is it that this life will develop intelligence? This remains an open question (which is scientist-speak for “we haven’t got a clue”). But many scientists consider intelligent life almost inevitable, in which case the galaxy should be teaming with alien civilizations."
http://earthsky.org/space/intelligent-life-universe-aliens-contact#

One thing to notice is that these quoted sources consider the "origin" - the "mechanism" for getting intelligent life on all those zillions of planets - is ... what I call "blind faith evolutionism".

as Christians we know there is "another option" for getting intelligent life on a planet.

so what does that life mean to your idea of Christianity?

One thing it means is that more and more Christian parents will find that they are sending their students to schools where the teachers take intelligent life in our universe "as a given".

And then there is the Presidential election aspect --

================================

NYTimes - May 11, 2016

"Mrs. Clinton has vowed that barring any threats to national security, she would open up government files on the subject, a shift from President Obama, who typically dismisses the topic as a joke. Her position has elated U.F.O. enthusiasts, who have declared Mrs. Clinton the first “E.T. candidate.”

“Hillary has embraced this issue with an absolutely unprecedented level of interest in American politics,” said Joseph G. Buchman, who has spent decades calling for government transparency about extraterrestrials.

Mrs. Clinton, a cautious candidate who often bemoans being the subject of Republican conspiracy theories, has shown surprising ease plunging into the discussion of the possibility of extraterrestrial beings."

from NY times - hhttp://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/11/us/politics/hillary-clinton-aliens.html

=====================

Washington Post April 2016
During the 1990s, there was an effort by Laurance Rockefeller (of the Rockefeller Rockefellers) to encourage the United States government to release any classified information it had about extraterrestrials, alien spacecraft and UFOs. The effort, referred to as the Rockefeller Initiative by UFO truthers, included meetings between Rockefeller and senior Clinton administration staff. In August of 1995, the Clintons stayed at Rockefeller's ranch in Wyoming, and Hillary was photographed with him while holding a book titled, "Are We Alone? Philosophical Implications of the Discovery of Extraterrestrial Life." (A large number of documents pertaining to Rockefeller's advocacy on this issue were released under the Freedom of Information Act several years ago.)

from: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...story-of-john-podestas-space-alien-obsession/
 
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daleksteve

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With the universe being so large, I think there is a strong possibility that God made the universe not just for Man to live in.

I don't think Aliens have reached earth because of the vast size of the universe and the strong possibility that FTL travel is impossible.

Aliens have already visited earth and are responsible for many of the world religions. Now i am not saying this is the case for christianity, although there appears to be a lot of Alien activity in the bible.

I don't think we are even alone in our Milky Way galaxy.There could be as many 100 million other solar systems in our Galaxy alone.
 
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daleksteve

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Well theres the fact also that He never talks about any other planets/people because we are the only ones. He wouldn't hide other creations from us then not tell us, because He would be lying. Which He cannot do. And in the end times theres nothing that hints about anything having to do with those "other people". All this aside theres never been any proof of aliens or UFOs.

LMAO

All the evidence you need is in the bible.

Ezekiel chapter one is very interesting. Ezekiel not only sees a ufo but also encounters the aliens from it.
 
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