Can you be good without God?

[Dave Ellis]

Paragraph 3: So morality is only what society determines?
I guess Hitler was a moral leader of the Third Reich then. He and German society approved of the extermination of the Jews. According to your worldview that was a morally good thing to do in that society.

No, actually according to your worldview, that a morally good thing to do.

Hitler based his anti-Semitism on Christian teachings, especially those of Martin Luther, and the holocaust was carried out by the overwhelmingly Christian German population.

Why do you support the Nazi positions?

 

[MennoSota]

Why does your line of argument depend on outlandish things that almost never occur? How do you not see the inherent dishonesty in your argument?



Your bronze age thinking is logically incoherent.

Who cares if they are seldom in occurance. I merely point out the absurdity of your post-modern relativism.

You claim I'm dishonest only because you feel that way at the moment. I just took you at your word. Do you wish to recant and change your position?

 

[Dave Ellis]

Who cares if they are seldom in occurance. I merely point out the absurdity of your post-modern relativism.

You claim I'm dishonest only because you feel that way at the moment. I just took you at your word. Do you wish to recant and change your position?

The fact you're claiming you took me at my word is also dishonest.

I'm not swayed by fundamentally dishonest arguments, especially from people who willingly employ them.

You have no right to preach morality at people until you start showing some morality yourself. Start by using honesty and integrity.

 

[MennoSota]

No, actually according to your worldview, that a morally good thing to do.

Hitler based his anti-Semitism on Christian teachings, especially those of Martin Luther, and the holocaust was carried out by the overwhelmingly Christian German population.

Why do you support the Nazi positions?

Sorry, your deflection of your worldview won't work.
God didn't give Luther or Hitler instruction to kill Jews. You can't find it in God's word.

However, in your own words, any society that creates such a moral law would be just in doing so. Your relativism gives license to genocide. Own it or abandon your worldview.

 

[MennoSota]

The fact you're claiming you took me at my word is also dishonest.

I'm not swayed by fundamentally dishonest arguments, especially from people who willingly employ them.

You have no right to preach morality at people until you start showing some morality yourself. Start by using honesty and integrity.

LOL, you are backtracking and desperately trying to get out of your flawed worldview.

Own it, or reject it, Dave.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Sorry, your deflection of your worldview won't work.
God didn't give Luther or Hitler instruction to kill Jews. You can't find it in God's word.

Sure you can, does the bible not say Jesus death is the responsibility of the Jews?

Many parts of the new testament is anti-Semitic. Yet, you agree with it. Why are you so racist? Is anti-Semitism moral behaviour in your eyes?

However, in your own words, any society that creates such a moral law would be just in doing so. Your relativism gives license to genocide. Own it or abandon your worldview.

No, my words do not lead to that, and I've explained numerous times why. Again, you are using dishonesty to back your position.

If you have truth, then why is it the only way you can argue is by spreading lies?

 

[Dave Ellis]

LOL, you are backtracking and desperately trying to get out of your flawed worldview.

Own it, or reject it, Dave.

Again, I did not backtrack one bit in there. I'm just sick of your nonsense posts on here and have turned to hammering your fundamental dishonesty when it comes to this argument.

 

[MennoSota]

Sure you can, does the bible not say Jesus death is the responsibility of the Jews?

Many parts of the new testament is anti-Semitic. Yet, you agree with it. Why are you so racist? Is anti-Semitism moral behaviour in your eyes?



No, my words do not lead to that, and I've explained numerous times why. Again, you are using dishonesty to back your position.

If you have truth, then why is it the only way you can argue is by spreading lies?

No, the Bible doesn't say that.

The New Testament is written by Jews who are writing by inspiration of God. Your claims of anti-Semitism are silly.

Your view is pure relativism. What feels right is right. You said it yourself. Own your comments, Dave.

The Bible is truth. No lies being spread.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

My life will be long over by that point. However, it doesn't lessen my experiences while I was alive to experience them at all.

Why would it?

So what value will any of your experiences have after you die and you fade into nothing?

Sent from my SM-N915V using Tapatalk

 

[Dave Ellis]

No, the Bible doesn't say that.

The New Testament is written by Jews who are writing by inspiration of God. Your claims of anti-Semitism are silly.

Your view is pure relativism. What feels right is right. You said it yourself. Own your comments, Dave.

The Bible is truth. No lies being spread.

Matthew 27:24-25 - When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood, he said. “It is your responsibility! All the people answered, “His blood is on us and on our children!

John 7:1 - After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him.

I can post many more if you wish. However, these are examples of what's in there. Had you ever read your bible, you might have known that.

 

[Dave Ellis]

So what value will any of your experiences have after you die and you fade into nothing?

Sent from my SM-N915V using Tapatalk

The same value they'd have if I lived forever, I don't see how the length of my life has any bearing on that.

My experiences only have meaning to me while I am here to experience them.

If anything, the fact life is temporary makes me value it even more. How valuable is anything that you have an endless supply of?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

LOL, this ain't no philosophy class. This is straight-up truth-telling and you're the denier of truth.
Deny all you want. You'll still be wrong.

No, you're wrong.

And back over the net to you. I can do this all day you know...

 

[ToddNotTodd]

No, I'm saying that you are posting in the Philosophy board, where philosophical discussion is expected even from Christians.

And you are clearly trolling us. I'm guessing that you are non-Christian and are just trying to make Christians look bad.

God (whom I don't believe in), I hope so. I'd hate to think that the level of discourse among Christians has sunk this low. I remember a time where this forum had actual philosophical discussions between theists and nontheists. Now it's just proselytizing, and unfounded assertions.

 

[Davian]

If God does not exist, why not go through life working to get the most out of it for yourself?

I think I am doing okay for now. Good health, mortgage free, beautiful wife and kids. Business partnership with rewarding work. Life is good.

Rules may be just a barrier holding you back from pleasure. If you devise a method to circumvent rules while maximizing pleasure and never get caught, you should be applauded for your efforts.

Is that what you think? Have you no morals yourself?

You get maximum pleasure with zero repercussions and no justice imposed upon your lawbreaking. You lived above the law and had a thrilling life.
Let's all be narcissists! Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die!!!

I think you are confused here. I am not the one with the worldview where I believe that I can get away with virtually anything, and still have a "Heaven" to go to when I die, regardless of my actions when alive. My actions, here and now affect others, and that has meaning to me.

Make it count, Dave. Get off this discussion board and fulfill all your pleasures and wants for you will be soon dead and your molecules will release their bonds to form something else.

May I be the first person to tell you you're wasting your life here on the Christian forums?

No for me. But as I told those others, what brought me here was my desire to have an accurate description of reality, and checking out religion is a part of that, and for Christianity this place seems good enough.

As religion is thin on the ground where we live, this gives me and my teenage children - looking over my shoulder - the opportunity to interact and observe the actions of religionists such as yourself. Will you present reasoned, thoughtful responses to the challenges presented in these forums, or will you simply rant at atheists in some self-serving manner?

I expect that this will serve to inoculate my children against religion, so no, our time here is not wasted.

 

[Davian]

There's a difference between temporary meaning and ultimate meaning. Obviously someone can find something temporarily meaningful, but ultimately if God doesn't exist then everything is meaningless. And since everything is ultimately meaningless, then the idea of temporary meaning is just a delusion, like good and evil. It's something that you choose to believe but that in reality doesn't matter, no matter how much you may tell yourself that it does.

The simple reality of the matter is that if God doesn't exist then there is no good and evil. Temporary delusions eventually get replaced by reality. So you may temporarily conclude that Stalin was evil, but ultimately he really wasn't and it didn't matter. Your temporary conclusions are really just a temporary delusion then.

I don't know where you are going with this. Are you not arguing from the position of a (Christian) theology where there is no good and evil, it only matters that you believe?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

I expect that this will serve to inoculate my children against religion, so no, our time here is not wasted.

For years I've used the posts from some of the Christians here (like MennoSota) to show on-the-fence Christians how illogical their constituents can be. It's been quite successful.

So, keep it coming...

 

[Davian]

I understand I'm speaking truth and you're running from it.

I understand that you are simply proffering your opinion as truth, and and I still here, waiting for you to substantiate your claims.

 

[Davian]

No, the Bible doesn't say that.

The New Testament is written by Jews who are writing by inspiration of God. Your claims of anti-Semitism are silly.

Your view is pure relativism. What feels right is right. You said it yourself. Own your comments, Dave.

The Bible is truth. No lies being spread.

Do the Jews think you are telling the truth, or lies?

 

[Davian]

Paragraph 1: Your molecules don't care. Nor do the molecules of others. A couple more minutes before they dis-bond. That's all you've done. Empty and meaningless.

Not while I am alive.

Paragraph 2: For no reason. It's meaningless without God having created them to do so.

Why then? Do the wolves and gorillas have a heaven to look forward to?

Paragraph 3: So morality is only what society determines?

I did not say that morality=good, I said, that is what morality is, by definition. Morality is simply a system of values and principles of conduct held by a society or population.

I guess Hitler was a moral leader of the Third Reich then. He and German society approved of the extermination of the Jews. According to your worldview that was a morally good thing to do in that society.

You obviously do not know my worldview.

Another Unsuccessful Test

• Davian
• Feb 27, 2016

Human sacrifice in Aztec society must have been a blessed good and not evil since that society approved.

As in Christian societies. And what about foreskins? Now there is sacrifice that makes one cringe, knowing the level of surgical skill and antiseptics of the time.

Do you see the irrational position you have taken?

Only your misrepresentation of it.

Paragraph 4:
I point to the very real and extremely well recorded life of Yeshua, Jesus, God incarnate, as my proof.

Point to it where? Are you just holding your arm out and pointing, while sitting in your chair there? You have yet to present anything in this forum.

No illusion, just fact and truth.

To be clear, you cannot show this belief you have in this alleged "creator" of yours to be anything by illusory? Correct?

 

[MennoSota]

Do the Jews think you are telling the truth, or lies?

Messianic or Orthodox?

In any case, feelings are secondary and not to be trusted.