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Ten Commandments still valid so says Bible and pro-Sunday Scholars

BobRyan

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And 1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" even in the NT -- still

So then Romans 6 "Under the LAW" vs "Under Grace"

Rom 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
..

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.
 
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Bob S

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James 2 -- the Royal Law...the "Law of Liberty"
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said,Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

In which Eph the "FIRST commandment with a promise" is Ex 20:12 -- the 5th commandment - according to Eph 6:2

How do we KNOW that we Love God and Love others?

John has the answer..

1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and His Commandments are not grievous.
And what are His commandments? John eloquently answers that in 1Jn 3:23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Paul had already announced in 2Cor 3 that the ministry that brought death, the 10 commandments were only temporary and now our guide is the Holy Spirit. So, John is in 1Jn 3 reiterating what Jesus taught. And of course it was not the temporary10 commandments.
 
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bugkiller

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And 1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" even in the NT -- still

So then Romans 6 "Under the LAW" vs "Under Grace"

Rom 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
..

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for
you are not under law but under grace.
From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God
15 What then? Shall we sin
because we are not under law but under grace?
Certainly not
! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.
What else is there to be said?

bugkiller
 
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Extraneous

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According to the Bible -
10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10


Eph 6:2 the LAW of God is the one where Ex 20:12 "Honor your father and mother" -- is the "FIRST commandment WITH a promise" - according to Paul.

In what unit of LAW - is that true other than the TEN Commandments?

Yes honoring mother and father is about being humble, therefore it fits Christs command to be humble. Its also about love for your parents. Love fulfills the law. That scripture however is not commanding us to observe Sabbath. Sabbath is fulfilled another way, other than the OT teaches it. Its not gone, its just fulfilled in Christ through the spirit. Look here- Look at Exodus 16 below. It refers to gathering food for 6 days but not on the sabbath day. This is directly connected to John chapter 6 when Christ refers to bread from heaven. This bread is referring to following the spirit. We dont need to gather this food every day nor do we need to rest from gathering on the seventh day. Our food is given by the spirit and our rest is also given. We will never hunger or thirst again.

Do you see? We are saved by the spirit, taught by the spirit, empowered by the spirit, and even rest in the spirit. Look also at Hebrews below and see that it is not talking about observing OT Sabbath at all. It refers to a whole different Sabbath than the OT teaches. God tests us, but not to see if we keep the OT Sabbath, but instead to see if we follow his instructions to walk in, learn from, and rest in his spirit. Look at the Exodus scripture, God tested them. Also remember that the spirit is the sign that God gives us. Its the promise of the NC that God promised in the OC. Jews seek signs, Greeks seek wisdom, but Christ is both a sign and wisdom for those being saved.



John 6:27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”
28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

30 Therefore they said to Him, “What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’”[a]

32 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.”

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.



Exodus 16:4 Then the Lord said to Moses, “I will rain down bread from heaven for you. The people are to go out each day and gather enough for that day. In this way I will test them and see whether they will follow my instructions. 5 On the sixth day they are to prepare what they bring in, and that is to be twice as much as they gather on the other days.”



Hebrews 4 A Sabbath-Rest for the People of God
4 Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2 For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed.[a] 3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,

“So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’”
And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. 4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.”[c] 5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”

6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”[d]
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,[e] just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
 
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Extraneous

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Exodus 16:4 Then the Lord said to Moses, “I will rain down bread from heaven for you. The people are to go out each day and gather enough for that day. In this way I will test them and see whether they will follow my instructions.


John 14:23 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world give
 
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Extraneous

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Genesis 17:1 and you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between Me and you. 12 He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised, every male child in your generations, he who is born in your house or bought with money from any foreigner who is not your descendant.

Exodus 16:30 Therefore they said to Him, “What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’”[a]

John 14:23 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world give

1 Corinthians 1:22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Jeremiah 31:31 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to[a] them,
declares the Lord.
33 This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.

I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”
 
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toLiJC

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Indeed - because the Bible ITSELF is the product of the Holy Spirit 2Tim 3:16 2Pet 1:19-21 and the Holy Spirit does NOT contradict Himself - we may trust "The WORD" of God even when it is in form of scripture.

"The Holy Spirit says" -- "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4
"The Holy Spirit says" -- "SIN not" 1 John 2:1
"The Holy Spirit says" -- "LOVE Me and keep My Commandments" Ex 20:6
"The Holy Spirit says" -- "If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
"The Holy Spirit says" - 'The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

I think we would both agree on all of that.

Heb 4
12 For the Word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Because the Holy Spirit is the author of it - 2 Tim 3:16 and the Holy Spirit is here with us when we read it -- John 16 - guiding us into ALL truth.



1 John 2
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

2 Cor 11
12 But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast. 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

without vilifying/accusing/judging/dooming any person, even i personally have for many years been an eyewitness to how many called or calling themselves "christians" who systematically (re-)read the Bible distorted a lot of it even because their "christian/church" doctrine taught them to do so, for they trusted and followed many uncertain, unverified and unproved things in their faith believing they are quite on the right track by blindly acting/proceeding so, and there were worrisome discrepancies between their understanding of the Bible and the actual truth (of God) (including when it came to their own understanding of the Scripture having it from personal reading/study of the Bible), which indicated that they were not (entirely) guided/led by the (true) Holy Spirit, and that there was something wrong in their spiritual/religious tradition/way of believing, so, if in such circumstances i say everything is ok, then won't i be a liar?!, and how much more will i be wrong if i tell such worshipers that they are on the right track and can boldly go on exercising/practicing faith in the same way as well as that there is (ostensibly) no need of repentance for them?!

for example, the Scripture contains not a few warnings about bad things that may happen/occur under certain circumstances presented in (as it were) different stylistic forms such as (ostensible) predictions, but actually there are no predictions in the Bible about bad things that will certainly befall concrete human beings i.e. regardless of what will be done, otherwise God would not be righteous if He just destined/doomed someone to suffer/die without having any chance to avoid that bad destiny/fate, so, as for the future, in the Scripture there are only warnings presented in one or another form, but all of them are given to us in order to prepare for the coming of the true Lord God, furthermore, the purpose of the faith is the humankind to be saved and provided with abundant and everlasting life in a way that is harmless and painless for them, this means the worshipers should not pamper any form of non-salvation and ruin to the detriment of their neighbor(whoever they may be) in principle even/including by reading, studying and prophesying the things that are written in the Bible, but many worshipers already committed such a spiritual iniquity/wickedness including a lot of christians, even by systematically believing in some kind(s)/sort(s) of non-salvation and ruin for many people, reading the Scripture, attending "churches" (built by humans), praying, etc.

Hebrews 6:1-9 "leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.",

Mark 9:29 "This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.",

1 Timothy 2:1-10 "I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks(i.e. prayers, supplications, intercessions, and blessings), be made for all men(i.e. for the salvation and life's provision of all humans); For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty(i.e. in all goodness and earnestness). For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men(i.e. all humans/souls) to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth(i.e. and to become good/righteous). For there is one God, and one mediator(also: and one Lord) between God and men, the man(i.e. the besouled being) Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not; ) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. I will therefore that men(i.e. that the male believers) pray every where, lifting up holy hands(i.e. entirely showing love/goodness), without wrath(i.e. without hostility/aggression) and doubting(i.e. and dramatizations/intrigues/fuss/strife). In like manner also, that women(i.e. that the female believers) adorn themselves in modest apparel(i.e. in humility), with shamefacedness(i.e. with meekness) and sobriety(i.e. and sanity); not with broided hair(i.e. not with pride/arrogance), or gold(i.e. or vainglory), or pearls(i.e. or (inordinate) wisdom), or costly array(i.e. or (inordinate) dignity/grandeur/nobleness); But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works."

i can remember cases of people who suffered very much and died after being exhorted and treated by christians, in other words, they turned out to be and remain cursed by those worshipers and died as a consequence soon afterward, even cases in which i felt the impact of negative spiritual forces on me while christians prayed for me, there were even such cases in which i almost died, and i subsequently found a lot of heresies in their faith, although they read the Bible systematically, and all that also indicated there was something wrong in their spiritual/religious tradition/way of believing, and one of the main problems in this regard is exactly the fact that the systematic reading of scripture as a main priority in the faith is usually connected with many problems and complications, because each heresy in the faith of the worshipers(whoever they may be) could (easily) turn out to have a bad effect on the world, and each negative thing in the faith that threatens at least one of the human beings is a heresy (that is why St. Peter calls the heresies "damnable/destructive" - 2 Peter 2:1)

Romans 5:12-14 "by one man(also: by the generation of the unrighteous spiritual workers/servants) sin(i.e. the devil and the system of (the) spiritual iniquity/lawlessness) entered into the world, and death(i.e. and the (spirit of) deterioration) by sin; and so death passed upon all men(i.e. and so the deterioration affected many humans), for that all have sinned(i.e. because many were seized by the system of (the) spiritual iniquity/lawlessness, some of them as its servants, others as its victims): For until the law sin was in the world(i.e. because the "darkness" was in the universe even until the nascence of the human spirituality/religion): but sin is not imputed when there is no law(i.e. but there is no sin where there is no spiritual iniquity/lawlessness). Nevertheless death(i.e. the deterioration) reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression(i.e. even over people that had not committed spiritual iniquity/lawlessness)",

Revelation 16:13-14 "I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty(also: to make them commit spiritual iniquity/lawlessness/wickedness to the detriment of the humankind until the last day).",

Revelation 17:1-5 "And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot(i.e. the judgment of the (system of) spiritual/religious iniquity/lawlessness) that sitteth upon many waters(i.e. that has many creeds/denominations): With whom the kings of the earth(i.e. the unrighteous spiritual workers/servants) have committed fornication(i.e. unrighteousness/iniquity in the faith), and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk(i.e. have been affected) with the wine(i.e. with the negative affections) of her fornication(i.e. of its (iniquitous/lawless) activity). So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness(i.e. into the place of desolation - Matthew 24:15): and I saw a woman(i.e. a spiritual/religious system/activity) sit upon(i.e. based on) a scarlet coloured beast(i.e. the other "god"/the wicked one), full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple(i.e. it exercised a great power of universal scale) and scarlet colour(i.e. and offered many privileges to its servants/followers), and decked with gold(i.e. and had a great glory) and precious stones and pearls(i.e. and sophisticated human spiritual/religious ordinances and doctrines), having a golden cup(i.e. a great judgment) in her hand full of abominations and filthiness(i.e. full of unrighteousness and filthiness) of her fornication(i.e. of its (iniquitous/lawless) activity): And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY(i.e. the occult/esoteric), BABYLON THE GREAT(i.e. the human/"beastly"(666) spirituality/religion), THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS(i.e. the mother of all unrighteous/bad clerics/worshippers and villains) AND ABOMINATIONS(i.e. and of all evils/iniquities/negative affections/afflictions) OF THE EARTH."

here i say again i do not judge/vilify/slander/accuse/doom any person by speaking so, but the purpose of this testimony is to be useful for correction, because it is anyway so that the evil cannot be removed from the humankind by anything but only by good prayer and concern for its salvation in the true Lord God (Mark 9:29)

Blessings
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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You claim we are doing wrong if we don't observe Sabbath law. I was only saying that its not evil to be free from the law and to walk in the spirit. Thats what God promised us, that's what paul teaches us. None of the other apostles in the NT seem to be in conflict with paul either. None of them teach us to keep the Sabbath.

Why is this so hard for intelligent people to grasp...

God gave us a Commandment not to commit adultery... there is a literal component and a spiritual component to this Commandment.
God gave us a Commandment to honour the seventh day Sabbath... there is a literal component and a spiritual component to this Commandment.

Why is it, that people have no problem not stealing from people and don't consider that being legalistic but when you mention keeping the seventh day Sabbath, people say your a law keeper and we are not under the law, etc. It's the same thing...

Look, if you are just being rebellious at heart and don't want to honour God by what He has asked from us, then at least be honest with yourself and say it... you're not fooling God with your semantics of "I'll keep these Commandments but not that one because..."
 
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Extraneous

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Why is this so hard for intelligent people to grasp...

God gave us a Commandment not to commit adultery... there is a literal component and a spiritual component to this Commandment.
God gave us a Commandment to honour the seventh day Sabbath... there is a literal component and a spiritual component to this Commandment.

Why is it, that people have no problem not stealing from people and don't consider that being legalistic but when you mention keeping the seventh day Sabbath, people say your a law keeper and we are not under the law, etc. It's the same thing...

Look, if you are just being rebellious at heart and don't want to honour God by what He has asked from us, then at least be honest with yourself and say it... you're not fooling God with your semantics of "I'll keep these Commandments but not that one because..."

Im not into calling people legalistic for observing a day, not any denomination in particular anyway, and i don't think any denominations has all the answers, so its hard for them to judge each other. I do however think that people have added to the words of our doctrine and thats why we have division. I use to believe in Sabbath, or rather the Sunday Sabbath thing, but since then my eyes have been opened because i was exposed to the scriptures in an environment where denomination theology didn't exist, i.e, i emptied myself of what i thought i knew according to what denomination teachers said, and i searched for the truth. My searching was mostly about the law and grace, because i wanted to understand Gods will for us, and i was struggling with many things.

I was actually in agreement with the ten commandments then, but since then have been exposed to the pure doctrine of Christ. I use to use all the same arguments that you and Bob are using, but not now. Galatians 5 is so simple that a child can understand it, but we adults have trouble with it. I struggled with Galatians for so long. I Dont agree with any denomination. I dont agree with Catholics, SDA, Lutherans, Eastern Orthodox, Presbyterians, Word of faith. I guess that makes me the enemy of just about everyone. I dont wish to be, but my understanding seems to cause them to dislike me, or at least it seems that way at times.
 
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Bob S

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Why is this so hard for intelligent people to grasp...
When I read and respond to your posts I ask myself the same question of you.

God gave us a Commandment to honour the seventh day Sabbath... there is a literal component and a spiritual component to this Commandment.
Us??? He didn't give it to Us. He gave it to Israel to remember how He led them out of bondage in Egypt. God didn't give" it to any other nation on earth.

Why is it, that people have no problem not stealing from people and don't consider that being legalistic but when you mention keeping the seventh day Sabbath, people say your a law keeper and we are not under the law, etc. It's the same thing...
Stealing is one law in hundreds found in the Royal law of love. If you use the 10 as your standard then you can hate, commit adultery in your heart, envy, be arrogant, be a slanderer, be an angry person, use violent speech need I go on?

Look, if you are just being rebellious at heart and don't want to honour God by what He has asked from us, then at least be honest with yourself and say it... you're not fooling God with your semantics of "I'll keep these Commandments but not that one because..."
If God had asked me to observe the Sabbath you bet I would. The fact is that He has not asked anyone to keep Sabbath since Jesus death on the Cross. Sabbath was part of the old covenant. Christians are under a new and better covenant.

I observe all laws concerning morality whether found in the old testament or the new. I do not observe the ritual laws given only to the Israelites such as the ritual Sabbath and all of the other ritual laws given at Sinai and found in the book of the law.

Morality has been forever and will be forever, so please stop with trying to paint a picture of us "Babylonians" as not having moral values. It is a sad way to debate when you know in your heart what you write is a straw man.
 
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Extraneous

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I have observed that everyone disagrees with each other, until someone says we dont need a denomination at all, then they all rally together against that one individual. They cant agree on anything but arguing against each other it seems. If everyone cant seem to agree, then how can they tell me i need a denomination? Which one is right? Will everyone tell me to just pick a denomination, only to then tell me my denominations theology is wrong? Where is the logic in that?

I think everyone, of every denomination, should empty themselves of all this discord, and all their denominations misconceptions, and search for simplicity. Look at Galatians 5 and tell me why i need to be a Catholic, SDA, Anglican, Eastern Orthodox, Presbyterian, Word of Faith, Lutheran, Baptist, Messianic Jew, Latter day saint, Jehovah witness... whew! no sir, no thank you.

With respect, when you all figure out who is right, then let me know, perhaps then i will submit to an earthly teacher. Till then however, CF has helped me learn. I did not learn completely on my own, i used the body as a guide, but it only helped me to search scripture, and its through scripture that i learned, not by any denomination. Surely you can see the wisdom in my words, i would hope.
 
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Bob S

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I have observed that everyone disagrees with each other, until someone says we dont need a denomination at all, then they all rally together against that one individual. They cant agree on anything but arguing against each other it seems. If everyone cant seem to agree, then how can they tell me i need a denomination? Which one is right? Will everyone tell me to just pick a denomination, only to then tell me my denominations theology is wrong? Where is the logic in that?

I think everyone, of every denomination, should empty themselves of all this discord, and all their denominations misconceptions, and search for simplicity. Look at Galatians 5 and tell me why i need to be a Catholic, SDA, Anglican, Eastern Orthodox, Presbyterian, Word of Faith, Lutheran, Baptist, Messianic Jew, Latter day saint, Jehovah witness... whew! no sir, no thank you.

With respect, when you all figure out who is right, then let me know, perhaps then i will submit to an earthly teacher. Till then however, CF has helped me learn. I did not learn completely on my own, i used the body as a guide, but it only helped me to search scripture, and its through scripture that i learned, not by any denomination. Surely you can see the wisdom in my words, i would hope.
I pray that I have not given you the impression that Christians must "belong" to any organization other than the Body of Christ. I do not belong to any earthly denomination, but I do fellowship with a group of very accepting people. They are not judgmental of my beliefs and I do not try to shove my beliefs down their throats. I do mention the promises as often as I can. They even ask me to teach Sunday School. I consider that an honor.

Yesterday I mentioned to a retired pastor that I have come to believe that our salvation is assured (OSAS). He smiled at me and responded that the congregation allows heretics. I responded with:
Jude1: 24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Believe it? Claim the promises
 
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Extraneous

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I pray that I have not given you the impression that Christians must "belong" to any organization other than the Body of Christ. I do not belong to any earthly denomination, but I do fellowship with a group of very accepting people. They are not judgmental of my beliefs and I do not try to shove my beliefs down their throats. I do mention the promises as often as I can. They even ask me to teach Sunday School. I consider that an honor.

Yesterday I mentioned to a retired pastor that I have come to believe that our salvation is assured (OSAS). He smiled at me and responded that the congregation allows heretics. I responded with:
Jude1: 24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Believe it? Claim the promises


No, you never gave me that impression. I was speaking in general terms. As long as as someone isn't trying to push a denomination and their teachers on me, then i have no problem with anyone. I just try to share what i see, and let the chips fall where they will. Im just here, trying to share what i believe, same as everyone else.
 
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Extraneous

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Just so there is no misunderstanding, I dont think SDA posters are trying to push anything onto me either, they are only sharing what they believe. Im referring to people who think i cant learn anything without submitting to their denomination. They seem to be closed minded.
 
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bugkiller

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Why is this so hard for intelligent people to grasp...

God gave us a Commandment not to commit adultery... there is a literal component and a spiritual component to this Commandment.
God gave us a Commandment to honour the seventh day Sabbath... there is a literal component and a spiritual component to this Commandment.

Why is it, that people have no problem not stealing from people and don't consider that being legalistic but when you mention keeping the seventh day Sabbath, people say your a law keeper and we are not under the law, etc. It's the same thing...

Look, if you are just being rebellious at heart and don't want to honour God by what He has asked from us, then at least be honest with yourself and say it... you're not fooling God with your semantics of "I'll keep these Commandments but not that one because..."
Was committing adultery a sin before the law (Mt Sainai), or did the law create this sin?

Who was this law given to? If it was the whole world wouldn't you think it would be fair to inform the inhbitants of Caanan before their complete destruction?

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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Im not into calling people legalistic for observing a day, not any denomination in particular anyway, and i don't think any denominations has all the answers, so its hard for them to judge each other. I do however think that people have added to the words of our doctrine and thats why we have division. I use to believe in Sabbath, or rather the Sunday Sabbath thing, but since then my eyes have been opened because i was exposed to the scriptures in an environment where denomination theology didn't exist, i.e, i emptied myself of what i thought i knew according to what denomination teachers said, and i searched for the truth. My searching was mostly about the law and grace, because i wanted to understand Gods will for us, and i was struggling with many things.

I was actually in agreement with the ten commandments then, but since then have been exposed to the pure doctrine of Christ. I use to use all the same arguments that you and Bob are using, but not now. Galatians 5 is so simple that a child can understand it, but we adults have trouble with it. I struggled with Galatians for so long. I Dont agree with any denomination. I dont agree with Catholics, SDA, Lutherans, Eastern Orthodox, Presbyterians, Word of faith. I guess that makes me the enemy of just about everyone. I dont wish to be, but my understanding seems to cause them to dislike me, or at least it seems that way at times.
Kinda ditto for me. I grew up in a church organization that preached grace and demanded law. They (grace and law) colided until I was almost ready to forsake God. Then God told me it (the law) wasn't my covenant. I still struggled with organized religion until 3 years after my retirement from truck driving in which I couldn't attend organized religious activities. They just don't allow 80,000 pounds on their parking lot. I found it amazing that each church I stopped attending (after the Holy Spirit told me the law wasn't my covenant) took an immediate and drastic drop in attendance and the last one just totally closed up. Can you imagine what my SDA neighbor had on his hands trying to convert me to their religion of salvation by works? He said he never met anyone like me, having an answer for every thing he presented to 10 long years. Had to tell him not to come back to my house.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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When I read and respond to your posts I ask myself the same question of you.


Us??? He didn't give it to Us. He gave it to Israel to remember how He led them out of bondage in Egypt. God didn't give" it to any other nation on earth.


Stealing is one law in hundreds found in the Royal law of love. If you use the 10 as your standard then you can hate, commit adultery in your heart, envy, be arrogant, be a slanderer, be an angry person, use violent speech need I go on?


If God had asked me to observe the Sabbath you bet I would. The fact is that He has not asked anyone to keep Sabbath since Jesus death on the Cross. Sabbath was part of the old covenant. Christians are under a new and better covenant.

I observe all laws concerning morality whether found in the old testament or the new. I do not observe the ritual laws given only to the Israelites such as the ritual Sabbath and all of the other ritual laws given at Sinai and found in the book of the law.

Morality has been forever and will be forever, so please stop with trying to paint a picture of us "Babylonians" as not having moral values. It is a sad way to debate when you know in your heart what you write is a straw man.
But the law has trained them to condemn just like it does for and to them. No one should be surprised.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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I have observed that everyone disagrees with each other, until someone says we dont need a denomination at all, then they all rally together against that one individual. They cant agree on anything but arguing against each other it seems. If everyone cant seem to agree, then how can they tell me i need a denomination? Which one is right? Will everyone tell me to just pick a denomination, only to then tell me my denominations theology is wrong? Where is the logic in that?

I think everyone, of every denomination, should empty themselves of all this discord, and all their denominations misconceptions, and search for simplicity. Look at Galatians 5 and tell me why i need to be a Catholic, SDA, Anglican, Eastern Orthodox, Presbyterian, Word of Faith, Lutheran, Baptist, Messianic Jew, Latter day saint, Jehovah witness... whew! no sir, no thank you.

With respect, when you all figure out who is right, then let me know, perhaps then i will submit to an earthly teacher. Till then however, CF has helped me learn. I did not learn completely on my own, i used the body as a guide, but it only helped me to search scripture, and its through scripture that i learned, not by any denomination. Surely you can see the wisdom in my words, i would hope.
Yeah it give the lawyers here fits because I've read the Bible.

bugkiller
 
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klutedavid

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Why is this so hard for intelligent people to grasp...

God gave us a Commandment not to commit adultery... there is a literal component and a spiritual component to this Commandment.
God gave us a Commandment to honour the seventh day Sabbath... there is a literal component and a spiritual component to this Commandment.
Hello ECR.

You made a claim.
God gave us a Commandment not to commit adultery... there is a literal component and a spiritual
component to this Commandment.
If this claim of yours is true, which is derived from a basic assumption, or method of interpretation. That
whatever Jesus spoke to the Jews, is directly applicable to the Gentiles. You apply a spiritual interpretation
to the law, so you actually strongly proclaim the ten commandments, i.e., the spiritual ten commandments.

Given that you interpret the scripture using this premise, then I would ask you how you interpret the following
commandment, that Jesus gave to the Jews.

Matthew 5
33 “Again, you have heard that it was said to those of ancient times, ‘You shall not swear falsely,
but carry out the vows you have made to the Lord.’ 34 But I say to you, Do not swear at all...

Below is the commandment given to Israel by God, verification of the commandment.

Numbers 30
1 This is what the Lord has commanded. When a man makes a vow to the Lord, or swears an oath to
bind himself by a pledge, he shall not break his word.

Jesus does not apply the spiritual brush to this commandment in Numbers, Jesus does not say,
keep your spiritual vows. Jesus actually repeals this commandment, Jesus said do not make
any vows.

The law permitted vow taking, Jesus forbade vow taking.

How do you explain this commandment or letter falling from the law?
 
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Extraneous

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Kinda ditto for me. I grew up in a church organization that preached grace and demanded law. They (grace and law) colided until I was almost ready to forsake God. Then God told me it (the law) wasn't my covenant. I still struggled with organized religion until 3 years after my retirement from truck driving in which I couldn't attend organized religious activities. They just don't allow 80,000 pounds on their parking lot. I found it amazing that each church I stopped attending (after the Holy Spirit told me the law wasn't my covenant) took an immediate and drastic drop in attendance and the last one just totally closed up. Can you imagine what my SDA neighbor had on his hands trying to convert me to their religion of salvation by works? He said he never met anyone like me, having an answer for every thing he presented to 10 long years. Had to tell him not to come back to my house.

bugkiller

I think every denomination has problems. Too many people sit back and listen to a teacher instead of actually searching the scriptures to see if what he says is true or not, unlike the Berean Jews. The internet has changed all that. It actually makes searching the scriptures much easier.
 
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