Ten Commandments still valid so says Bible and pro-Sunday Scholars

[toLiJC]

Bible texts both NT and OT about God's Commandments - Showing that the TEN Commandments are assigned the title "in scripture" as being "Commandments of God" -- and as also being "The Word of God"

10 Commandments are
Commandments of God Neh 10:29
Law of God ; Neh 10:29
Word of God Mark 7:13
Commandment of GodMark 7:6-13
NT ScriptureJames 2:8
NT Law James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.

The elders consisting of scribes and pharise es are in fact the "magisterium" even Paul admits to this. And Jesus shows how they claim to "sit in the chair of Moses" as church magisterium .


Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying, The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice. (Matthew 23:1-3)

yes, unfortunately their worship was pretty vain

Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment is the "FIRST Commandment with a promise".

First commandment in "what unit of LAW" ??

in Christ,

Bob

yes, if we listen to the testimony of the true Saints, we (will) come closer to the true Lord God

Blessings

 

[toLiJC]

My post was not about my promoting the logical fallacy of "either-or" -- rather I point to "both and".

Affirming Scripture as the NT authors also did - is not an argument against inspiration from God - it is an argument for it.

Not sure why you are taking this upholding of divine inspiration - as an argument against it.

i just said the right exercise of faith is more important than the scripture reading, because the Bible cannot be right understood by reading without special gift of the Holy Spirit

IN Acts 17:11 it is the "spoken word" of Paul that is being judged by scripture.
IN Mark 7:6-13 it is the spoken word, the oral traditions that are being hammered "sola scriptura" by Christ.

But that is not an argument against divine inspiration - for as 2Tim 3:15-17 scripture itself is the product of divine inspiration.

but first, in the 14th verse, he says that Timothy had learned to know the Scripture from the true Saints, because They taught him:

2 Timothy 3:14 "continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;"

so it is again about right exercise of faith, first of all - in this particular case it is at least by/in the form of listening

Acts 17:11 does not say "they listened to Paul and then believed that scripture said and meant whatever he might say" rather they "Studied the scripture daily to SEE IF those things WERE SO" - this is a TEST of Paul - not a test of their ability to read, or a test of scripture.

I am not arguing for the fallacy of "either or" (either have faith - or study the scriptures)... I am arguing for both-and.

in Christ,

Bob

it is written: "the Jews of Thessalonica had knowledge that the word of God was preached of Paul at Berea"(Acts 17:13)

Blessings

 

[BobRyan]

i just said the right exercise of faith is more important than the scripture reading, because the Bible cannot be right understood by reading without special gift of the Holy Spirit

In John 16 - the special work of the Holy Spirit is also stated as "He convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment".
And in John 3 the special work of the Holy Spirit is that he causes the New Birth for those who repent and choose salvation according to Paul in Romans 10.

but first, in the 14th verse, he says that Timothy had learned to know the Scripture from the true Saints, because They taught him:
2 Timothy 3:14 "continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;"

In 1 John 2 "you have no need for anyone to teach you - for His anointing teaches you"

The Holy Spirit instructs - all.

Example -- the story "Mutiny on the Bounty" and Pitcairn Island - the criminals unload from the ship.. burn the ship... behave wickedly - then later the Island turns to be Christian because 'somebody finds a Bible'.

it is the "Scriptures" that are able to lead you to salvation - in 2Tim 3. Paul did not say "your grandmother was able to lead you" because as we see in Heb 4 "The Word of God is LIVING and active and sharper than a two edged sword" -- the Holy Spirit is not restricted to a human teacher.

In Gal 1 "Though WE Apostles or an ANGEL from heaven should preach to you a different Gospel other than you have received - let him be accursed"

How then can we 2000 years later, know what Gospel was preached? We have to "read our Bibles". And then we too would know of some evangelist, pastor, teacher is to be "accursed" because his teaching is opposed to the Gospel that we find in scripture.

So we do exactly what Christ did "sola scriptura" in Mark 7.
We do exactly what the saints are approved for doing in Berea "They studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - WERE So" Acts 17:11

in Christ,

Bob

 

[toLiJC]

In John 16 - the special work of the Holy Spirit is also stated as "He convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment".
And in John 3 the special work of the Holy Spirit is that he causes the New Birth for those who repent and choose salvation according to Paul in Romans 10.

if there is any kind of non-salvation or ruin to the detriment of any person in the heart/faith of the worshiper (whoever they may be), then they are also convicted by that special aspect of the Holy Spirit presented in John 16, and this would mean they have not repented of all their unrighteousness/iniquity/sin/wickedness - i say this without dooming any person, just such is the truth

In 1 John 2 "you have no need for anyone to teach you - for His anointing teaches you"

The Holy Spirit instructs - all.

Example -- the story "Mutiny on the Bounty" and Pitcairn Island - the criminals unload from the ship.. burn the ship... behave wickedly - then later the Island turns to be Christian because 'somebody finds a Bible'.

if there was no need for them to be taught by any person, then why did the Apostles write so many epistles to them, preach the Gospel to them, and instruct them by physically visiting/meeting with them several times?!, why hadn't the Apostles left them to be entirely taught by the Holy Spirit without saying anything to them for all the time of their spiritual lives since the very beginning?!

it is the "Scriptures" that are able to lead you to salvation - in 2Tim 3. Paul did not say "your grandmother was able to lead you" because as we see in Heb 4 "The Word of God is LIVING and active and sharper than a two edged sword" -- the Holy Spirit is not restricted to a human teacher.

and is the Bible something living and active by itself?!, but there are literal words in it written/printed on sheets of paper with ink and nothing more, moreover, most people that read it have not understood a lot of its message that God put therein and even distorted it, that's why it is written:

1 Corinthians 3:1-6 "Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."

In Gal 1 "Though WE Apostles or an ANGEL from heaven should preach to you a different Gospel other than you have received - let him be accursed"

"other than you have received" from whom or what?!, because it is about the living Word that comes directly out of the mouth of the true Lord God, the Heavenly Father and Jesus, which was initially preached to them by the Apostles

How then can we 2000 years later, know what Gospel was preached? We have to "read our Bibles". And then we too would know of some evangelist, pastor, teacher is to be "accursed" because his teaching is opposed to the Gospel that we find in scripture.

yes, the Bible is the only official recorded(written) Word of the true Lord God for this planet, and it would not be bad that it be read once, twice or thrice, but it is not compulsory in principle, because the worshiper can also understand the truth(righteousness) of the true Lord God only by right exercising faith in Him for example after being instructed by some person who is aware enough of this matter (or authorized by Him) to do it

if there was any person "accursed" by the true Holy Spirit under such circumstances, then it is certain that person prophesied/preached falsely and was too great a menace for many others, but is it certain whether we understand what is opposed to the Gospel and what is not so as to hurry to judge?!, why must we be (too) rash/hasty with the findings, conclusions, opinions, decisions and judgments?!

So we do exactly what Christ did "sola scriptura" in Mark 7.
We do exactly what the saints are approved for doing in Berea "They studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - WERE So" Acts 17:11

in Christ,

Bob

it is written that only some people studied the Scriptures so, because not every worshiper in Jesus Christ is a scribe, but there are also prophets (who even do not need a scripture to prophesy), exorcists, healers, resurrecters, etc., according as it is also written:

1 Corinthians 12:28-30 "God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?"

Blessings

 

[RyanC111]

[FONT=&quot]Are God's Ten Commandments still valid ??

That is the primary question to be answered on this section of the board.

And the irrefutable response from scripture is ... "yes".

========================

Here we have the NT text providing examples from the TEN Commandments -- affirming them as "still" valid.

And of course scripture is -- true.

=========================

Matt 19
And someone came to Him and said;Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life 17 And He said to him, Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments; 18 Then he *said to Him, Which ones? And Jesus said,
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself


"what matters is Keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19


Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

What law? The Law that condemns all mankind as sinners -

Rom 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

That same law - same chapter

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

Note Paul says in Romans 3 that this is the Law that defines sin and condemns the entire world as sinners... that would not be "the Law about Passover". That does not condemn gentiles at all.
.
...

The context in Romans 3 is not Psalms but rather the LAW that condemns all mankind under sin.

Which I think even you will admit is not simply the Psalms - but the TEN Commandments written on stone the "LAW of death" as Paul calls it in 2Cor 3.

2 Cor 3
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away ==============================

(So then the moral law of God is being affirmed by all of scripture "the Law and the Prophets" a term that specifies all of OT "scripture")

Matt 22 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

Luke 16:16 "The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it."

Any part of scripture read could fall under that title.

Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

=================================

Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.


Rom 13
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;

and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

Your right the Law of Moses is still in affect- 2 Corinthians 3:14. However, like Romans 7 says, we must become dead to the law! And become alive to GOD. Galations 4 tells us that the law and the Grace of GOD do not co exist together. Obedience can only come through Christ ( Romans 8:3, Ephesians 2:8-10). The difference between works and faith is a fine line. If we wish to fulfill the Royal Law of Loving thy Neighbor we must realize that we love because He first Loved Us!!

 

[Bob S]

Your right the Law of Moses is still in affect- 2 Corinthians 3:14.

WOW! hold the phone brother. Didn't you just quote verses 7-10 in another post? Those verses tell us that the 10 commandments were temporary. Now you tell us The whole law of Moses is STILL in affect. I don't understand and also I like verse 14 from the New Living Bible. Old Testament wasn't a term at that time, but Paul understood the term new covenant.

14 But the people’s minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth.

I see nothing in that verse that concludes that we are still under the law of Moses.

 

[Extraneous]

Your right the Law of Moses is still in affect- 2 Corinthians 3:14. However, like Romans 7 says, we must become dead to the law! And become alive to GOD. Galations 4 tells us that the law and the Grace of GOD do not co exist together. Obedience can only come through Christ ( Romans 8:3, Ephesians 2:8-10). The difference between works and faith is a fine line. If we wish to fulfill the Royal Law of Loving thy Neighbor we must realize that we love because He first Loved Us!!

Im beginning to think that following the spirit is inexpressible with words. Its just something you must experience to understand it, even then we cant quite put it into words. The words that the apostles have used to describe it are the way though, follow those words and we find it. It kind of reminds me of this scripture, a little. I cant describe it other than saying it is hope faith and love, just as paul said it was. Its also truth as Christ and paul both say it is.


Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

 

[Extraneous]

Debating religion and politics, its just a distraction.


Phillipians 4:4 Rejoice in the Lord always. Again I will say, rejoice!

5 Let your gentleness be known to all men. The Lord is at hand.

6 Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; 7 and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

11 Not that I speak in regard to need, for I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content: 12 I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound. Everywhere and in all things I have learned both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. 13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

23 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.[c] Amen.


2 Corinthians 12:9-19 And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast [a]about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me. 10 Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong.

 

[BobRyan]

Your right the Law of Moses is still in affect- 2 Corinthians 3:14. However, like Romans 7 says, we must become dead to the law! And become alive to GOD. Galations 4 tells us that the law and the Grace of GOD do not co exist together. Obedience can only come through Christ ( Romans 8:3, Ephesians 2:8-10). The difference between works and faith is a fine line. If we wish to fulfill the Royal Law of Loving thy Neighbor we must realize that we love because He first Loved Us!!

All those "under the LAW" - under the "condemnation of the LAW" are condemned as sinners.

Rom 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;


And 1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" even in the NT -- still

So then Romans 6 "Under the LAW" vs "Under Grace"

Rom 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
..

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.

 

[BobRyan]

if there is any kind of non-salvation or ruin to the detriment of any person in the heart/faith of the worshiper (whoever they may be), then they are also convicted by that special aspect of the Holy Spirit presented in John 16, and this would mean they have not repented of all their unrighteousness/iniquity/sin/wickedness - i say this without dooming any person, just such is the truth

Indeed - because the Bible ITSELF is the product of the Holy Spirit 2Tim 3:16 2Pet 1:19-21 and the Holy Spirit does NOT contradict Himself - we may trust "The WORD" of God even when it is in form of scripture.

"The Holy Spirit says" -- "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4
"The Holy Spirit says" -- "SIN not" 1 John 2:1
"The Holy Spirit says" -- "LOVE Me and keep My Commandments" Ex 20:6
"The Holy Spirit says" -- "If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
"The Holy Spirit says" - 'The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

I think we would both agree on all of that.

Heb 4
12 For the Word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Because the Holy Spirit is the author of it - 2 Tim 3:16 and the Holy Spirit is here with us when we read it -- John 16 - guiding us into ALL truth.

and is the Bible something living and active by itself?

1 John 2
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

2 Cor 11
12 But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast. 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

 

[Extraneous]

All those "under the LAW" - under the "condemnation of the LAW" are condemned as sinners.

Rom 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;


And 1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" even in the NT -- still

So then Romans 6 "Under the LAW" vs "Under Grace"

Rom 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
..

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.

Why brother, do you not see that we are not under the law of sin and death, nor the law of Moses either? We are free from all of it. It is about walking in the spirit. How do we do this? Its simple.

I believe that those who are preaching politics and religion are failing to properly see the doctrine of Christ. The kingdom is about experiencing love and brotherhood on earth, and about waiting for Christ to redeem us from this temporary world full of strife and discord. Just look at these works of flesh seen in Galatians and we will see that any political strife, or religious strife, is pretty much the wrong doctrine, which keeps us from walking in the spirit as we should.

Politics are also a lack of faith in Christ. Christ is all things to us. He is our king and helper. To follow mans politics is to divide our faith in Christ, and is also to walk in the flesh rather than the spirit as well. Faith working by love is what matters, as Paul has said. Politics are both a lack of faith, and a work of strife, discord, dissensions, factions. Those things will enslave us to the world rather than giving us true and complete liberty in Christ. They will cause us to stray from walking in the spirit and seeking the kingdom as we should. The spirit and flesh are contrary to each other. We are free from law but we should not use it for the flesh.


Galatians 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery

13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious:.... hatred, discord, dissensions, factions ...

 

[BobRyan]

1 John 3:4 - "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" - still to this very day -- even in the NT.

Romans 6 "SHALL we SIN because we are not UNDER (the condemnation of) the LAW but under grace. God forbid!!"??

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

your controversy is "with the text"

Your response to the text of Romans 6 - was ...

Why brother, do you not see that we are not under the law of sin and death, nor the law of Moses either? We are free from all of it. It is about walking in the spirit. How do we do this? Its simple. .

--3 simple questions...

Christ argues this point about the "WORD of GOD" the "Commandments of God" .

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the Commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Christ said "it is a big deal" in Mark 7


1. Question 1 -- In your view - is Christ in Error in Mark 7??

2. Question 2: Eph 6:2 "What unit of LAW" is being upheld by Paul in Eph 5:2 where the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment with a PROMISE"?... easy answer.

3. Question 3: Heb 8:6-10 NEW COVENANT "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind" Jer 31:31-33 ---> what Law is Jer 31:31-33 referencing for Jeremiah and his readers?

 

[Extraneous]

1 John 3:4 - "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" - still to this very day -- even in the NT.

Romans 6 "SHALL we SIN because we are not UNDER (the condemnation of) the LAW but under grace. God forbid!!"??

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

your controversy is "with the text"

Your response to the text of Romans 6 - was ...



--3 simple questions...

Christ argues this point about the "WORD of GOD" the "Commandments of God" .

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the Commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Christ said "it is a big deal" in Mark 7


1. Question 1 -- In your view - is Christ in Error in Mark 7??

2. Question 2: Eph 6:2 "What unit of LAW" is being upheld by Paul in Eph 5:2 where the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment with a PROMISE"?... easy answer.

3. Question 3: Heb 8:6-10 NEW COVENANT "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind" Jer 31:31-33 ---> what Law is Jer 31:31-33 referencing for Jeremiah and his readers?

What does it mean to walk in the spirit? Is walking in the spirit about observing the OT Sabbath rest, or the rest in Christ that we have been promised? Resting on Sabbath is just one day of the week. How is that eternal rest?


John 6:27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”
28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

30 Therefore they said to Him, “What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’”[a]

32 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.”

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.



Exodus 16:4 Then the Lord said to Moses, “I will rain down bread from heaven for you. The people are to go out each day and gather enough for that day. In this way I will test them and see whether they will follow my instructions. 5 On the sixth day they are to prepare what they bring in, and that is to be twice as much as they gather on the other days.”



Hebrews 4 A Sabbath-Rest for the People of God
4 Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2 For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed.[a] 3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,

“So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’”
And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. 4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.”[c] 5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”

6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”[d]
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,[e] just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

 

[Extraneous]

John 6:30 Therefore they said to Him, “What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’”[a]


1 Co 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

 

[Extraneous]

Gods Sabbath rest is indeed a test to see if we follow his instructions. However this refers to following the spirit, not OT Sabbath law. He tests to see if we will follow the spirit. The spirit teaches us all things. This is not like following Moses at all. Its better.

John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.


1 Co 1:9 For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”[c]
20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

 

[BobRyan]

In the post below -- I ask three simple questions.

You quote this post in 29 minutes ago #493

And yet in that post and also your next two posts -- you never get around to addressing these 3 basic questions.

=====================================

1 John 3:4 - "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" - still to this very day -- even in the NT.
Romans 6 "SHALL we SIN because we are not UNDER (the condemnation of) the LAW but under grace. God forbid!!"??

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

your controversy is "with the text"

--3 simple questions...

Christ argues this point about the "WORD of GOD" the "Commandments of God" .

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the Commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Christ said "it is a big deal" in Mark 7


1. Question 1 -- In your view - is Christ in Error in Mark 7??

2. Question 2: Eph 6:2 "What unit of LAW" is being upheld by Paul in Eph 5:2 where the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment with a PROMISE"?... easy answer.

3. Question 3: Heb 8:6-10 NEW COVENANT "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind" Jer 31:31-33 ---> what Law is Jer 31:31-33 referencing for Jeremiah and his readers?[/QUOTE]

 

[Extraneous]

In the post below -- I ask three simple questions.

You quote this post in 29 minutes ago #493

And yet in that post and also your next two posts -- you never get around to addressing these 3 basic questions.

=====================================

1 John 3:4 - "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" - still to this very day -- even in the NT.
Romans 6 "SHALL we SIN because we are not UNDER (the condemnation of) the LAW but under grace. God forbid!!"??

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

your controversy is "with the text"

--3 simple questions...

Christ argues this point about the "WORD of GOD" the "Commandments of God" .

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the Commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Christ said "it is a big deal" in Mark 7


1. Question 1 -- In your view - is Christ in Error in Mark 7??

2. Question 2: Eph 6:2 "What unit of LAW" is being upheld by Paul in Eph 5:2 where the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment with a PROMISE"?... easy answer.

3. Question 3: Heb 8:6-10 NEW COVENANT "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind" Jer 31:31-33 ---> what Law is Jer 31:31-33 referencing for Jeremiah and his readers?

[/QUOTE]

I answered them all brother, you just didnt see it.

 

[BobRyan]

Hebrews 4 A Sabbath-Rest for the People of God
4 Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2 For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed.[a] 3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,

“So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’”
And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. 4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.”[c] 5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”

6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”[d]
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,[e] just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

Sabbath "remains" from what what?? -- Remains from the time of Ps 95.

AS for the people of FAITH --

Heb 11
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2 For by it the men of old gained approval.
3 By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible. 4 By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks. 5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; and he was not found because God took him up; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. 7 By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise; 10 for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God. 11 By faith even Sarah herself received ability to conceive, even beyond the proper time of life, since she considered Him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore there was born even of one man, and him as good as dead at that, as many descendants as the stars of heaven in number, and innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.

13 All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14 For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own. 15 And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son; 18 it was he to whom it was said, “In Isaac your descendants shall be called.” 19 He considered that God is able to raise people even from the dead, from which he also received him back as a type. 20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau, even regarding things to come. 21 By faith Jacob, as he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and worshiped, leaning on the top of his staff. 22 By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the exodus of the sons of Israel, and gave orders concerning his bones.

23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden for three months by his parents, because they saw he was a beautiful child; and they were not afraid of the king’s edict. 24 By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, 25 choosing rather to endure ill-treatment with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin, 26 considering the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt; for he was looking to the reward.

NEW COVENANT
Heb 8
“For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.
11 “And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen,
And everyone his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
For all will know Me,
From the least to the greatest of them.
12 “For I will be merciful to their iniquities,
And I will remember their sins no more.”

Matt 17
Six days later Jesus *took with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and *led them up on a high mountain by themselves. 2 And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light. 3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. 4 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, I will make three tabernacles here, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”

 

[BobRyan]

In the post below -- I ask three simple questions.

You quote this post in 29 minutes ago #493

And yet in that post and also your next two posts -- you never get around to addressing these 3 basic questions.

=====================================

1 John 3:4 - "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" - still to this very day -- even in the NT.
Romans 6 "SHALL we SIN because we are not UNDER (the condemnation of) the LAW but under grace. God forbid!!"??

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

your controversy is "with the text"

--3 simple questions...

Christ argues this point about the "WORD of GOD" the "Commandments of God" .

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the Commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Christ said "it is a big deal" in Mark 7


1. Question 1 -- In your view - is Christ in Error in Mark 7??

2. Question 2: Eph 6:2 "What unit of LAW" is being upheld by Paul in Eph 5:2 where the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment with a PROMISE"?... easy answer.

3. Question 3: Heb 8:6-10 NEW COVENANT "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind" Jer 31:31-33 ---> what Law is Jer 31:31-33 referencing for Jeremiah and his readers?

=====================================

I answered them all brother, you just didnt see it.

That is great news -- would you mind posting the answer where we can all see it?

So far... at no point do you go to Mark 7 and address the point, or Eph 6 and address the point... or Heb 8 and address the question raised regarding Jeremiah and Jer 31:31-33 the NEW Covenant.

If anyone is having trouble seeing the answer, then i would suggest following Galatians 5, and the parable of the sower.

I see "avoidance" of those 3 questions --- again.

in Mark 7 Christ raises "inconvenient details" in scripture - details that were "much to be avoided" by the Jewish leaders of his time.

That is why we are so happy with Christ's "sola scriptura method". Scripture stands while the traditions of man "need to avoid it".

 

[Extraneous]

If anyone is having trouble seeing the answer, then i would suggest following Galatians 5, and the parable of the sower. Stop looking for physical healing and look for spiritual healing. We are all like blind men, needing to see.


Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.


Mathew 13:11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’[a]
16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17 For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”