Once Saved Always Saved: Fact or Fiction?

[L. Shields]

Once you have received Christ as your Lord and Savior you are saved and righteous in the eyes of God. The only way to lose salvation is to reject it. Sin can't cause you to lose salvation. You have free will to receive and believe on Christ. When you learn that Christ Has done everything on the cross to save you and you knowing and willingly Reject it, no longer believing in His finish works of salvation, I understand and believe this is what the bible refers to as willful sin. Wilful sin is not what you do wrong but rejecting God's perfect sacrifice for salvation. So what will a person do who has known Christ and reject Him? They can't save them selves...There is no other sacrifice for sin but though Christ.

Just my Belief

 

[FreeGrace2]

How about those who stop believing?

They're idiots, but still born again and still have eternal life. Where's the evidence to oppose this?

You got a scripture for the ones who stop believing?

You've already seen them and rejected them.

Eternal life is a gift of God, as is justification. And God's gifts are IRREVOCABLE.

 

[HatGuy]

Once you have received Christ as your Lord and Savior you are saved and righteous in the eyes of God. The only way to lose salvation is to reject it. Sin can't cause you to lose salvation. You have free will to receive and believe on Christ. When you learn that Christ Has done everything on the cross to save you and you knowing and willingly Reject it, no longer believing in His finish works of salvation, I understand and believe this is what the bible refers to as willful sin. Wilful sin is not what you do wrong but rejecting God's perfect sacrifice for salvation. So what will a person do who has known Christ and reject Him? They can't save them selves...There is no other sacrifice for sin but though Christ.

Just my Belief

I think you're onto something there

 

[FreeGrace2]

Do you think the "goats" were previously "sheep"?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Once you have received Christ as your Lord and Savior you are saved and righteous in the eyes of God. The only way to lose salvation is to reject it.

At the very least, that suggests that a child of God has the power to undo his spiritual new birth. One can no more undo his spiritual birth than one can undo his physical birth.

Can anyone change their birth parents? Of course not. That is idiotic. It's no different with our spiritual new birth, and God is our Father.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Speaking of having "eternal life IN Christ Jesus" in 6:23, we know how one is placed in union in Christ: through faith in Him

As I showed clearly Jesus Christ himself is the LIFE and ETERNAL LIFE, if believers have Jesus Christ in them and they abide in him they have eternal life. Eternal life is not so much a state of being, it is Jesus Christ himself and being in him.

John said,

"...which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us" ( 1John 1:1,2)

Here clearly he is speaking of the Word made flesh, which is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is eternal life,

so,

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him"( 1 John 3:15)

So if a believer hardens their heart and becomes a murderer, then they no longer have "eternal life" ( which is Jesus Christ" abiding (or "remaining" in Greek) in them. This shows the location of eternal life, not in a state or place around us, but it is in them, and that is Jesus Christ in them. This murderer does not have eternal life in that dark state. And as John said in chapter 1 if a person walks in darkness and says they are in the light they lie and do not the truth. So when a person who is a believer walks in darkness, lets say murder in this case, and he says he is eternally secure and in the light, he is a liar and eternal life is not IN HIM>

I know this will shatter many years of wrong doctrine for some and all the books that have been wrongly written , but let it all fall, and be shaken so that all we see is Christ in His marvelous Light.

 

[1213]

Once Saved Always Saved: Fact or Fiction?

I don’t see any Biblical reason why saved person couldn’t reject God. Therefore it is possible to become not saved.

For concerning those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify the Son of God for themselves again, and put him to open shame. For the land which has drunk the rain that comes often on it, and brings forth a crop suitable for them for whose sake it is also tilled, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and thistles, it is rejected and near being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
Heb. 6:4-8

Maybe it is not common to reject God, after forgiveness. Probably more common is that person has not even become righteous and acts like in this:

Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will tell me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?' Then I will tell them, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.'
Matt. 7:21-23

Eternal life is for righteous. Therefore after sins are forgiven (=salvation), there should happen change in person mind so that he becomes righteous. Righteousness is like state of mind and right understanding, which comes visible in actions.

By their fruits you will know them. Do you gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree produces good fruit; but the corrupt tree produces evil fruit. A good tree can't produce evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. Every tree that doesn't grow good fruit is cut down, and thrown into the fire.
Mat. 7:16-19

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

 

[LoveofTruth]

a pig returns to its mud. Is like a person who lives in the flesh ( like a pig nature) and is clean, Not the flesh yet, the flesh must be crucified) and then he goes back to the flesh again . He is like that. But in the flesh we are still like pigs in the fallen corruptible nature. Only in Christ in the spirit are we new creations. This corruptible shall put on incorruptible one day and we wait for the redemption of our bodies, we don't have it yet. So in the true sense the flesh (like a pig) needs to be crucified daily. If we go back into the flesh we are like the pig going back.

 

[LoveofTruth]

if God spared not the angels that sinned but cast them down, and they will go to the lake of fire one day, then all should consider their own life. The angels were once perfect in all their ways and eternal beings, full of light and beauty and righteousness. Then when they fell they will end up in the lake of fire. This shows that a being can go from a saved eternal state in glory to the lowest hell and lake of fire.

really all OSAS falls on this point. And on the Judas argument as well as infant salvation

Infant salvation shatters all of Calvinism.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Consider Hebrews 3 a believer can have an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God. This happens through the decitfulness of sin.

very clear to the unbiased reader.

This shows clearly that a person can be with the living God through faith and depart from the living God through unbelief. It is not works that saved him or works that lost it, But faith and unbelief.

 

[Ronnie Tanner]

It's a shame the Lord can't spell or use correct grammar, otherwise we might have listened a bit better. After three terrific gaffes, I just stopped reading.

Credibility fail. Big time.

Could you point out the grammatical mistakes and other terrific gaffes?

 

[Admiral_Kang]

That must be a great scriptural response in "your" bible study group.

Facetious comment unappreciated. My point was that your reply contained a non-sequitur. Inheriting the Kingdom does not necessarily mean being saved. You have made a non-logical jump, hence the non-sequitur.

 

[JLB777]

Great point! The grace that we are saved by is the same grace that keeps us!

Yes, it is the same Grace that keeps us, if we continue to believe... which is how we obtained the grace to begin with.

If we stop believing then the grace stops.

That's why Paul says you must continue to believe steadfast unto the end.

if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1;23


We are saved in this hope, which means we are saved by faith.

Faith is the substance of the thing you and I are HOPING FOR...

Hoping for means we have not yet obtained the reality of the thing we are hoping for, but we do have the evidence of the thing not yet seen.

That is the definition of faith.

As long as we have "faith" in Christ for Salvation, we are still have the hope of salvation...


Paul explains:

For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen [obtained, manifested, realized] is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
Romans 8:24-25


Can you tell me what the IT in this verse, represents; the IT that we are waiting for with perseverance.

For we were saved in this hope... we have the evidence of the thing not yet obtained.


That is why Peter says -

the end of your faith is the salvation of your soul. 1 Peter 1:9


As long as you have faith in Christ, steadfast unto the end, and continue in the hope of salvation, then you have access to the forgiveness the blood of Jesus provides.



JLB

 

[JLB777]

Facetious comment unappreciated. My point was that your reply contained a non-sequitur. Inheriting the Kingdom does not necessarily mean being saved. You have made a non-logical jump, hence the non-sequitur.

You gave no scripture for the opinion you stated.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


Here is a biblical example of the use of the phrase inherit the kingdom of God -

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 24:31-34



These on His left hand did not inherit the kingdom of God -

41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41

And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Matthew 25:41



JLB

 

[Ronnie Tanner]

Anywhere that it states that you can lose your salvation.

Provide the quote, Gigman7. You aren't being responsible or helpful to anyone with your responses.

 

[Admiral_Kang]

Could you point out the grammatical mistakes and other terrific gaffes?

Nope, sorry. If you can't find them they won't affect your enjoyment or otherwise. For me, they immediately turned me off. However I would point out that the very first gaffe (hoping it doesn't spoil it for you!) is that the poster said it was from the Lord. A presumptuous statement, I would have thought.

Oh and with respect, I am disabling notifications for this thread now, so there'll be no more replies from me from now on (this may come as a relief for some! )

 

[LoveofTruth]

Facetious comment unappreciated. My point was that your reply contained a non-sequitur. Inheriting the Kingdom does not necessarily mean being saved. You have made a non-logical jump, hence the non-sequitur.

Yes being in the kingdom of God does mean being saved. Jesus said to the disciples "but your eyes see" speaking of the things of the kingdom but to those without ( the kingdom) they cannot understand or see. Unless a man is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. In 1 Cor 6:9,10 Paul speaks of certain sins that if a person does ( believer or not) they will not inherit the kingdom of God. Those sins mentions will lead to the lake of fire. The people who are in those kind of sins and think they are in the light of salvation are "deceived" as Paul said.

 

[madera23]

Or...

They weren't saved at that first moment but only thought or said that they were. There is nothing surprising or confusing about being "only skin deep" or "an inch deep and a mile wide" about some commitment or other. We even have expressions that we use all the time to describe such a thing.

It's either fiction or irrelevant.

To hold this belief you must say that somebody who was once Christian and believed everything that you believed, but then later on changed their mind and rejected God, is still saved. Obviously the Bible would reject this idea so you would be forced into a position where you must say that they were never saved in the first place. If they were never saved in the first place even though they believed exactly what you believed at one point in time, then how do you know if you are saved. You couldn't possibly know so this belief tells you nothing.

So many claim to be saved, but the truth is that only God knows.
I make no claims, I am not religious,
Why don't you Christians do the same and put your self righteousness claims away.
Just be yourselves and be honest with yourselves.
Madera

 

[HatGuy]

if God spared not the angels that sinned but cast them down, and they will go to the lake of fire one day, then all should consider their own life. The angels were once perfect in all their ways and eternal beings, full of light and beauty and righteousness. Then when they fell they will end up in the lake of fire. This shows that a being can go from a saved eternal state in glory to the lowest hell and lake of fire.

really all OSAS falls on this point. And on the Judas argument as well as infant salvation.

The angels were not in a "saved eternal state" because "saved" generally means "redeemed" (from a previously fallen state). All your argument shows is that created beings can fall (and must be saved). This does not show that unrighteous beings saved by God can lose that salvation.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Great point! The grace that we are saved by is the same grace that keeps us!

we are kept by the power of God THROUGH faith

and some can do despite the Spirit of grace, and turn the grace of God into laciviousness, and even FALL from grace