Ten Commandments still valid so says Bible and pro-Sunday Scholars

[listed]

I think you might agree that Chuck Swindol does agree with D.L Moody on that point - far more than those who argue that the Sabbath commandment is the one commandment we should ignore.

=====================================
[FONT=&quot]Chuck Swindol[/FONT]l

Quote:
[FONT=&quot]It's interesting what our Creator did on the seventh day of creation. Do you remember? Just in case you forgot, read Genesis 2:2 for yourself: "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done[/FONT][FONT=&quot], and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done."[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Now, why? Why did Almighty God need to rest? He didn't need to, He chose to. But why? Being God, He certainly wasn't tired (an absolute impossibility). He rested because He considered His work complete. He also rested to leave us an example to follow . . [/FONT][FONT=&quot]. to pattern our lives after[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. Many, many [/FONT][FONT=&quot]years later,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] He very deliberately included the importance of resting [/FONT][FONT=&quot]in His top ten priorities.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] These have come to be called the Ten Commandments. Obviously, they represent the ten things God cares about the most when it comes to wholesome human behavior. Number four on that list is found in Exodus 20:8-11, which reads:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the L[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ORD[/FONT][FONT=&quot] your God; in it you shall not do any work. . . . For in six days the L[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ORD[/FONT][FONT=&quot] made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the L[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ORD[/FONT][FONT=&quot] blessed the sabbath day and made it holy."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"Sabbath" is actually a Hebrew term, meaning "seventh." The seventh day of the week is Saturday. It was tradition that transferred Saturday to Sunday, but in God's original plan, He never had Sunday in mind, only the seventh---or last---day of the week. On that final day, REST![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]My concern at this point is not which day you choose to rest and relax---only that you take time to do so. As Jesus taught, "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath[/FONT][FONT=&quot]" (Mark 2:27)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://daily.insight.org/site/News2?...ticle&id=13409[/FONT]


==================================================
Of all the points where we COULD differ on this thread/subject the one key point where we DO differ most directly is the ONE point where both the majority of pro-Sunday scholars AND also the Bible Sabbath Christians DO Agree - which is that the TEN Commandments are still binding on all the saints and that this includes the Sabbath Commandment.

What is Chuck actually promoting in that devotional? He said absolutely nothing about worship. Is he promoting your version of the Sabbath? No! From what Chuck says and what you say he would have to be saying worship is stressful. I do not read such in his devotional.

 

[listed]

Well if you read page 1 of this thread you find the "Westminster Confession of Faith" and that represents quite a few Christians and combined with the Baptist Confession of Faith - quite a few Evangelicals.

And we also have Matthew Henry, R.C. Sproul, Andy Stanley even affirms the Ten Commandments as still valid even though he only leads the largest congregation in America today.

I present just a few others in my signature line but a great many do affirm this point.

Even the RCC affirms that the Ten Commandments are included the Moral Law of God still binding on mankind to this very day.

So a number of other Catholic groups.

in Christ,

Bob

I think its rather odd that your people who you say confess one thing actually do another. What are they really saying? You simply do not seem to get past a few words that do not communicate to you what those people actually mean. Their actions testify to what they mean. They do not support your version of the 4th commandment and neither does the actual commandment.

 

[listed]

Sadly it has not been proven/shown/demonstrated that they do not claim that the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God - which is what I actually claim -- they say.

I never claim that in practice they choose to keep the Sabbath Commandment as it is in scripture. Rather I argue on page 1 of this thread that they imagine man-made-tradition to bend the Commandment of God and point it to week-day-1.

The point remains.

in Christ,

Bob

Their actions prove they do not say what you think they say. They do not practice the 4th commandment even as you amend it.

 

[BobRyan]

I think its rather odd that your people who you say confess one thing actually do another.

"My people"??


In direct terms - I unambiguously quote pro-sunday sources making very explicit statements in their own words.

By contrast "my people" are actually Bible Sabbath -- Saturday groups. I merely quote the pro-sunday groups to show how "the other side" views a certain Bible detail.

Now and then both sides agree on something - like the TEN Commandments still being binding on all mankind as the moral law of God.

Including the Sabbath Commandment's moral obligation still binding.

So then -- just stating the obvious.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

=====================================
[FONT=&quot]Chuck Swindoll

Quote:
[FONT=&quot]It's interesting what our Creator did on the seventh day of creation. Do you remember? Just in case you forgot, read Genesis 2:2 for yourself: "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done[/FONT][FONT=&quot], and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done."[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Now, why? Why did Almighty God need to rest? He didn't need to, He chose to. But why? Being God, He certainly wasn't tired (an absolute impossibility). He rested because He considered His work complete. He also rested to leave us an example to follow . . [/FONT][FONT=&quot]. to pattern our lives after[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. Many, many [/FONT][FONT=&quot]years later,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] He very deliberately included the importance of resting [/FONT][FONT=&quot]in His top ten priorities.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] These have come to be called the Ten Commandments. Obviously, they represent the ten things God cares about the most when it comes to wholesome human behavior. Number four on that list is found in Exodus 20:8-11, which reads:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the L[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ORD[/FONT][FONT=&quot] your God; in it you shall not do any work. . . . For in six days the L[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ORD[/FONT][FONT=&quot] made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the L[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ORD[/FONT][FONT=&quot] blessed the sabbath day and made it holy."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"Sabbath" is actually a Hebrew term, meaning "seventh." The seventh day of the week is Saturday. It was tradition that transferred Saturday to Sunday, but in God's original plan, He never had Sunday in mind, only the seventh---or last---day of the week. On that final day, REST![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]My concern at this point is not which day you choose to rest and relax---only that you take time to do so. As Jesus taught, "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath[/FONT][FONT=&quot]" (Mark 2:27)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://daily.insight.org/site/News2?...ticle&id=13409[/FONT]


==================================================
Of all the points where we COULD differ on this thread/subject the one key point where we DO differ most directly is the ONE point where both the majority of pro-Sunday scholars AND also the Bible Sabbath Christians DO Agree - which is that the TEN Commandments are still binding on all the saints and that this includes the Sabbath Commandment.[/FONT]

What is Chuck actually promoting in that devotional?

Indeed - let the reader ask that question as they read it.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[bugkiller]

"My people"??

Yes your people. You alone introduced them. They represent your ideas according to you. They don't represent me or a major part of Christianity.


In direct terms - I unambiguously quote pro-sunday sources making very explicit statements in their own words.

By contrast "my people" are actually Bible Sabbath -- Saturday groups. I merely quote the pro-sunday groups to show how "the other side" views a certain Bible detail.[/quote]Please tell the truth about why you quote them. They can't be on the other side and promote your ideas.

Now and then both sides agree on something - like the TEN Commandments still being binding on all mankind as the moral law of God.

Including the Sabbath Commandment's moral obligation still binding.

So then -- just stating the obvious.

in Christ,

Bob

The 4th commandment isn't a moral issue nor is it binding according to the NT.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

The actual Bible includes this -

[FONT=&quot]James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Do not commit adultery[/FONT][FONT=&quot],”
also said, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Do not commit murder.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty
[/FONT]

Ok so that was what we fine for "examples" illustrations in the NT of God's Ten Commandments - is there more? maybe from "all" of scripture?

Bible texts both NT and OT about God's Commandments - Showing that the TEN Commandments are assigned the title "in scripture" as being "Commandments of God" -- and as also being "The Word of God"

10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]The elders consisting of scrib[FONT=&quot]es and ph[FONT=&quot]arise[FONT=&quot]es [/FONT]are in fact the "magisterium" even Paul admits to this. And Jesus shows how they claim to "sit in the chair of Moses" as church magisterium[FONT=&quot].[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying, “The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice. (Matthew 23:1-3)[/FONT]

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Matt 19
And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”


[FONT=&quot]Matt 5
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [/FONT]



Note that in 1John 5 - John contrasts "LOVE", to the Commandments of God. He does not say "By this we know that we Love God -- if we Love God".

Rather John points to obedience to the WORD of God "the Commandments of God" as the sign that we truly to LOVE God. Being at war against his Word is not such a great sign of "loving God" as some had perhaps imagined.

1 John 5
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3

==========================================================
Paul affirms the Ten Commandments

[/FONT]
1. Paul teaches that there remains therefore a "Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4.
2. Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
3. Paul tellw gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justifIED... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16
4. Paul askw that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the LAw of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8
6. Paul tells gentiles that "The Law" is in fact "The LAW of Moses" and is to be used for testing doctrine 1Cor 9:8-9
7 Paul reaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Heb 8:7-11
8. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16
(see point 5 below) AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.
9. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.


-

 

[BobRyan]

So then does that explain why even pro-Sunday sources like D.L.Moody say this??

- D.L. Moody notices that some are opposed to the Sabbath Commandment - but notice how this sermon on the TEN Commandments also fits the summary of 7 points listed here on page 1??

BY THE
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]DWIGHT L. MOODY[/FONT][/FONT]​

The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17 ​

.
The Fourth Commandment

​

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was[/FONT][FONT=&quot]- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; [/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

Some have said that this part of Moody's Sabbath Commandment section of his TEN Commandment sermon - helps them get his meaning more clearly. So there it is if that helps to get his intent/meaning more clearly.
​

​

BY THE
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]DWIGHT L. MOODY[/FONT][/FONT]

The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17 ​

.
The Fourth Commandment
...

• A FIRM STAND

We have a fighting chance to save this nation, and what we want is men and women who have moral courage to stand up and say: "No, I will not touch the Sunday paper, and all the influence I have I will throw dead against it. I will not go away on Saturday evening if I have to travel on Sunday to get back. I will not do unnecessary work on the Sabbath. I will do all I can to keep it holy as God commanded."
But someone says: "Mr. Moody, what are you going to do? I have to work seven days a week or starve."

Then starve! Wouldn't it be a grand thing to have a martyr in the nineteenth century? "The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church." Someone says the seed is getting very low; it has been a long time since we have had any seed. I would give something to erect a monument to such a martyr for his fidelity to God's law. I would go around the world to attend his funeral.

We want today men who will make up their minds to do what is right and stand by it if the heavens tumble on their heads. What is to become of Christian Associations and Sunday schools, of churches and Christian Endeavor societies, if the Christian Sabbath is given up to recreation and made a holiday? Hasn't the time come to call a halt if men want power with God? Let men call you narrow and bigoted, but be man enough to stand by God's law, and you will have power and blessing. That is the kind of Christianity we want just now in this country. Any man can go with the crowd, but we want men who will go against the current.

Sabbath-breaker, are you ready to step into the scales?

 

[listed]

The actual Bible includes this -

[FONT=&quot]James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Do not commit adultery[/FONT][FONT=&quot],”
also said, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Do not commit murder.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty
[/FONT]

Hammer all you like. Your c&p spam has been fully disproven.

 

[listed]

So then does that explain why even pro-Sunday sources like D.L.Moody say this??

DL Moody is not addressing or promoting the beliefs of SDA. Neither is he discussing theology with them.

 

[listed]

Some have said that this part of Moody's Sabbath Commandment section of his TEN Commandment sermon - helps them get his meaning more clearly. So there it is if that helps to get his intent/meaning more clearly.
​

​

This is not a plea for a return to a 7th day Sabbath for the nation or anyone else for that matter.

 

[BobRyan]

When I point out the element of "objectivity" displayed for all to read - as seen in the fact that BOTH sides of the debate admit to some key Doctrinal points -- I do so by appealing to the statements on Opposing SIDES - regarding this detail of the TEN Commandments and their continued use.

To complain that I am showing this with two-opposing sides - (the very element needed to show this level of objectivity) is to reject objectivity itself as if IT is a bad thing.

And in doing so - your logic is illusive to me - I don't see how this is helping your argument.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Hammer all you like. Your c&p spam has been fully disproven.

Each time someone denies what is plainly stated in the quote - all I need to do is present the quote - for it fully refutes the complaint.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[bugkiller]

When I point out the element of "objectivity" displayed for all to read - as seen in the fact that BOTH sides of the debate admit to some key Doctrinal points -- I do so by appealing to the statements on Opposing SIDES - regarding this detail of the TEN Commandments and their continued use.

To complain that I am showing this with two-opposing sides - (the very element needed to show this level of objectivity) is to reject objectivity itself as if IT is a bad thing.

And in doing so - your logic is illusive to me - I don't see how this is helping your argument.

in Christ,

Bob

You're so limited it hurts me.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Each time someone denies what is plainly stated in the quote - all I need to do is present the quote - for it fully refutes the complaint.

in Christ,

Bob

We've tried and tried to discuss this with you only to be ignored. You're not here to discuss. Your only purpose is conversion.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Page 1 posts appear to be irrefutable as it is shown that both the Bible and even these pro-Sunday sources affirm God's Ten Commandments.

That does not mean that all Christians will agree with these sources - just that they do "exist" and that they do agree on the point of the TEN Commandments even as the bible examples showed on page 1.

So then what would be an example of such pro-Sunday scholarship that pertains to the 7 point summary list just posted?

Here we have section 19 of the Westminster - and of course you already have a few posts of mine quoting the "Baptist Confession of Faith"
Westminster Confession of Faith Section 19

"Westminster Confession of Faith"

Chapter XIX
Of the Law of God​

[FONT=&quot]I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which He bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.

II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables: the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.

III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, His graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits; and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties. All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament.

IV. To them also, as a body politic, He gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.
V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it.[ Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.
VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned; yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives; so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin, together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of His obedience. It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin: and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law. The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof: although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works. So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace.
VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it; the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.


​

Section 21 of the Westminster and Section 22 of the Baptist both address point 7 "the change" the edit of the Sabbath commandment from the 7th day starting from creation and all through the OT and NT Gospel until the cross where it is "changed" in their mind -- to point to week-day-1.

 

[disciple1]

Page 1 posts appear to be irrefutable as it is shown that both the Bible and even these pro-Sunday sources affirm God's Ten Commandments.

That does not mean that all Christians will agree with these sources - just that they do "exist" and that they do agree on the point of the TEN Commandments even as the bible examples showed on page 1.

But no one obeys the ten commandments or any of the other law.
1 John chapter 1 verse 8 If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.
James chapter 2 verse 10 If anyone keeps the whole law yet stumbles at just one point their guilty of breaking all of it.
Here's what you get if you try to obey the law.
Romans chapter 9 verses 30-Romans chapter 10 verse 4
What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. As it is written: See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame. Brothers my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are Zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own the did not submit to God's righteousness, Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.


Hebrews chapter 7
11. If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come--one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?
12. For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.


18. The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless

19. (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

And this shows your slaves if you try to obey the law.

Galatians chapter 4 verse 21-31
Tell me you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? For it is written that Abraham had two sons,one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.
These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. For it is written: "be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband. Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. But what does the Scripture say? Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.
Why don't you study your bibles and if your going to use the law apply it to yourself, because Christ is the only one who ever obeyed it.
James chapter 2 verse 13
13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.
Luke chapter 7
37 A woman in that town who lived a sinful life learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee’s house, so she came there with an alabaster jar of perfume. 38 As she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them.
39 When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, “If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is—that she is a sinner.”

40 Jesus answered him, “Simon, I have something to tell you.”

“Tell me, teacher,” he said.

41 “Two people owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii,[c] and the other fifty. 42 Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he forgave the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?”

43 Simon replied, “I suppose the one who had the bigger debt forgiven.”

“You have judged correctly,” Jesus said.

44 Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45 You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. 46 You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. 47 Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little.”

48 Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”

49 The other guests began to say among themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”

50 Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

1 John chapter 4 verse 8, 16

Says God is love.

the only reason to pray.

Daniel chapter 9


18 Give ear, our God, and hear; open your eyes and see the desolation of the city that bears your Name. We do not make requests of you because we are righteous, but because of your great mercy.

 

[BobRyan]

But no one obeys the ten commandments or any of the other law.

According to the bible the "saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

According to the Bible that "cannot keep God's Law" scenario is the case for the lost

Romans 8
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

1 John 3
2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.


1 John 5
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Rom 6
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?...
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.

1 John chapter 1 verse 8 If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.
James chapter 2 verse 10 If anyone keeps the whole law yet stumbles at just one point their guilty of breaking all of it.

James 2 does not "do no refrain from adultery for those who keep one part of the law must then be sinless and cannot be under the gospel" -- as we all know.

James makes the OPPOSITE point in James 2

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

 

[disciple1]

According to the bible the "saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

According to the Bible that "cannot keep God's Law" scenario is the case for the lost

Romans 8
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

1 John 3
2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.


1 John 5
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Rom 6
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?...
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.



James 2 does not "do no refrain from adultery for those who keep one part of the law must then be sinless and cannot be under the gospel" -- as we all know.

James makes the OPPOSITE point in James 2

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

but no one keeps the law your miss using the bible because you sin just like everyone else.
Galatians chapter 5 verse 6 the only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love.
Everyone who quotes the law is a hypocrite! Because no one obeys it.