Is Scripture MISSING Dogmas? (2)

[Root of Jesse]

But we have solid physical evidence of the seven heads of John the Baptist. So, does that make it more believable than something without any evidence?

Show me that, in the Bible, please.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I find myself a bit frusustrated over all the theological stuff. You know, the denominations, movements, cannons and all that. Its like trying to go out on Christmas Eve to buy a gallon of milk. You just need some milk but you end up finding yourself in a chaotic envoronment of traffic jams, people running around everywhere trying to get all this stuff and you end up frustrated and tired, and now you need a bottle of aspirin too.

However then i remember what James said, he said be a doer of the word. I dont need the Christmas headache and the bottle of aspirin, i just need the milk.

By your last statement, you understand that faith without works is dead, then?

By the way, the chaos is outside of the Catholic, Orthodox, etc.-the Apostolic Churches. I suspect even within a Protestant denomination. It's when you compare and contrast, and agree or disagree with what one of them teaches.
When I need to have a faith question answered, I know just where to go, and it's not asking someone else's opinion.

 

[SpyderByte]

Actually, that wasn't my argument. There is precedent for God creating human beings without sin. That's very logical. We know from extraneous writings about Mary's childhood, and it was believed early on. We have evidence, but you discount it, so there it is. We believe there is evidence, we believe the evidence, and we make the assertion. There is precedence in the Bible for God creating humans without sin, so there is rationale for it.

No, not from extraneous writings, but gnostic apocryphal writings. Writings rejected as pure nonsense. Yes God created 2 sinless beings. Then they sinned. Even starting perfectly, in perfect surroundings, they couldn't keep from sinning. Why would Mary be different? What would the purpose be? Why would got contradict His own word for a single person when it makes no difference?

 

[fhansen]

No, not from extraneous writings, but gnostic apocryphal writings. Writings rejected as pure nonsense. Yes God created 2 sinless beings. Then they sinned. Even starting perfectly, in perfect surroundings, they couldn't keep from sinning. Why would Mary be different? What would the purpose be? Why would got contradict His own word for a single person when it makes no difference?

Adam & Eve did not have to sin-they chose to. God would not command anyone to do something they were incapable of doing, then blame and punish them for not doing it. He'd be the author of their disobedience in that case, the creator of evil.

 

[Root of Jesse]

No, not from extraneous writings, but gnostic apocryphal writings. Writings rejected as pure nonsense. Yes God created 2 sinless beings. Then they sinned. Even starting perfectly, in perfect surroundings, they couldn't keep from sinning. Why would Mary be different? What would the purpose be? Why would got contradict His own word for a single person when it makes no difference?

Rejected by you, perhaps, but they're not gnostic at all. Apocryphal, sure. But we don't limit the word of God to just what's in Scripture. God speaks as well as writes.

Why? What purpose? To contain the Son of God in her womb, nothing more. God didn't contradict his own word. He made humans sinless, they decided to say no to God. Mary was also made sinless (otherwise, why the title "full of grace"?) and said yes to God.

 

[mluiesp]

But if Mary could be sinless without the Cross, why did Jesus go to the Cross?

 

[mluiesp]

Simply put, I don't share your's or souldier's frustrations. That's the confidence in Christ that comes from being Catholic.

That sounds like an advertisement to me. Wasn't St. Therese of Calcutta frustrated at times?

 

[SpyderByte]

Rejected by you, perhaps, but they're not gnostic at all. Apocryphal, sure. But we don't limit the word of God to just what's in Scripture. God speaks as well as writes.

Why? What purpose? To contain the Son of God in her womb, nothing more. God didn't contradict his own word. He made humans sinless, they decided to say no to God. Mary was also made sinless (otherwise, why the title "full of grace"?) and said yes to God.

Wow round and round we go on the eisegesis wheel. First, Adam and Eve's fall was no surprise to God. As I've already pointed out, even under the most perfect of circumstances they could not refrain from sin. So unless you're calling Marry a robot, with no free will, she would still fall under the biblical principle laid out by Paul that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. You still haven't made your connection beyond simple assertion. God the Son needed to come to the world in flesh, as Jesus of Nazareth. Why did Mary therefore not only have to be born sinless, and then remain so forever? Where is that written? Why have her declare God as her saviour if she was always sinless? Why not simply create a sinless person and keep him sinless to die on the cross rather than Jesus? You have yet to provide biblical evidence for your dogma, aside from a previously debunked greeting.

 

[SpyderByte]

But if Mary could be sinless without the Cross, why did Jesus go to the Cross?

Expect yet more eisegesis...

 

[Root of Jesse]

But if Mary could be sinless without the Cross, why did Jesus go to the Cross?

Who says Mary was sinless without the Cross?

 

[Root of Jesse]

That sounds like an advertisement to me. Wasn't St. Therese of Calcutta frustrated at times?

Yes, so? We all get frustrated. Many times over different things. souldier is frustrated about theology. I might be frustrated over my weight. So?

 

[Root of Jesse]

Wow round and round we go on the eisegesis wheel. First, Adam and Eve's fall was no surprise to God. As I've already pointed out, even under the most perfect of circumstances they could not refrain from sin. So unless you're calling Marry a robot, with no free will, she would still fall under the biblical principle laid out by Paul that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Nope. Mary had and used free will. (It's also free will to say no to sin!) And by your logic, Jesus also sinned. But we know certain people even today are incapable of sin. Babies, for example, cannot sin.

You still haven't made your connection beyond simple assertion. God the Son needed to come to the world in flesh, as Jesus of Nazareth. Why did Mary therefore not only have to be born sinless, and then remain so forever? Where is that written? Why have her declare God as her saviour if she was always sinless? Why not simply create a sinless person and keep him sinless to die on the cross rather than Jesus? You have yet to provide biblical evidence for your dogma, aside from a previously debunked greeting.

It's there in Scripture if you bother to understand. And you haven't debunked anything, except for your own, and your Protestant bretheren's satisfaction.
I already answered your other questions. Mary did need a savior, and she declared that God was her savior. He saved her before she was born.

 

[mluiesp]

Yes, so? We all get frustrated. Many times over different things. souldier is frustrated about theology. I might be frustrated over my weight. So?

...so being Catholic does not preclude being frustrated.

 

[mluiesp]

Who says Mary was sinless without the Cross?

God created her before Jesus' death and resurrection.

 

[fhansen]

God created her before Jesus' death and resurrection.

Anyone who makes it to heaven, from Adam on, has been washed clean by the blood of Christ.

 

[Root of Jesse]

God created her before Jesus' death and resurrection.

God is outside of time. God can apply Christ's saving power to Mary.

 

[Root of Jesse]

...so being Catholic does not preclude being frustrated.

Who said that it did??

 

[BobRyan]

By your last statement, you understand that faith without works is dead, then?

By the way, the chaos is outside of the Catholic, Orthodox, etc.-the Apostolic Churches. I suspect even within a Protestant denomination. It's when you compare and contrast, and agree or disagree with what one of them teaches.
When I need to have a faith question answered, I know just where to go, and it's not asking someone else's opinion.

I am a little surprised by that last statement.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Who says Mary was sinless without the Cross?

Who says Mary was sinless??

 

[Root of Jesse]

Who says Mary was sinless??

Angel Gabriel.