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Did Jesus die on a cross or a stake?

WitnessforGOD

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Hello all, I'm new here and would like to start off with a question that a lot are confused about. Most of christendoms churches teach Jesus died On a cross hence they have crosses In there churches and on steeples and they wear a pagan torture device around there necks not knowing what the bible teaches about what Jesus died on.

Did Jesus Really Die on a Cross?

“THE cross,” says one encyclopedia, “is the most familiar symbol of Christianity.” Many religious paintings and works of art depict Jesus nailed to a cross. Why is this symbol so widespread in Christendom? Did Jesus really die on a cross?
Many would point to the Bible for the answer. For example, according to the King James Version, at the time of Jesus’ execution, onlookers made fun of Jesus and challenged him to “come down from the cross.” (Matthew 27:40, 42) Many other Bible translations read similarly. Today’s English Version says of Simon from Cyrene: “The soldiers forced him to carry Jesus’ cross.” (Mark 15:21) In these verses, the word “cross” is translated from the Greek word staurosʹ. Is there a solid basis for such a translation? What is the meaning of that original word?
Was It a Cross?
According to Greek scholar W. E. Vine, staurosʹ “denotes, primarily, an upright pale or stake. On such malefactors were nailed for execution. Both the noun and the verb stauroō, to fasten to a stake or pale, are originally to be distinguished from the ecclesiastical form of a two beamed cross.”
The Imperial Bible-Dictionary says that the word staurosʹ “properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling a piece of ground.” The dictionary continues: “Even amongst the Romans the crux (Latin, from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole.” Thus, it is not surprising that The Catholic Encyclopedia states: “Certain it is, at any rate, that the cross originally consisted of a simple vertical pole, sharpened at its upper end.”
There is another Greek word, xyʹlon, that Bible writers used to describe the instrument of Jesus’ execution. A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament defines xyʹlon as “a piece of timber, a wooden stake.” It goes on to say that like staurosʹ, xyʹlon “was simply an upright pale or stake to which the Romans nailed those who were thus said to be crucified.”
In line with this, we note that the King James Version reads at Acts 5:30: “The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree [xyʹlon].” Other versions, though rendering staurosʹ as “cross,” also translate xyʹlon as “tree.” At Acts 13:29, The Jerusalem Bible says of Jesus: “When they had carried out everything that scripture foretells about him they took him down from the tree [xyʹlon] and buried him.”
In view of the basic meaning of the Greek words staurosʹ and xyʹlon, the Critical Lexicon and Concordance, quoted above, observes: “Both words disagree with the modern idea of a cross, with which we have become familiarised by pictures.” In other words, what the Gospel writers described using the word staurosʹ was nothing like what people today call a cross. Appropriately, therefore, the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures uses the expression “torture stake” at Matthew 27:40-42 and in other places where the word staurosʹ appears. Similarly, the Complete Jewish Bible uses the expression “execution stake.”
Origin of the Cross
If the Bible does not really say that Jesus was executed on a cross, then why do all the churches that claim to teach and follow the Bible—Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox—adorn their buildings with the cross and use it as a symbol of their faith? How did the cross come to be such a popular symbol?
The answer is that the cross is venerated not only by churchgoers who claim to follow the Bible but also by people far removed from the Bible and whose worship far predates that of “Christian” churches. Numerous religious reference works acknowledge that the use of crosses in various shapes and forms goes back to remote periods of human civilization. For example, ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics and depictions of their gods and goddesses often show a cross in the shape of a T with a circle at the top. It is called the ansate, or handle-shaped, cross and is thought to be a symbol of life. In time, this form of the cross was adopted and used extensively by the Coptic Church and others.
According to The Catholic Encyclopedia, “the primitive form of the cross seems to have been that of the so-called ‘gamma’ cross (crux gammata), better known to Orientalists and students of prehistoric archæology by its Sanskrit name, swastika.” This sign was widely used among Hindus in India and Buddhists throughout Asia and is still seen in decorations and ornaments in those areas.
It is not known exactly when the cross was adopted as a “Christian” symbol. Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words states: “By the middle of the 3rd cent. A.D. the churches had either departed from, or had travestied, certain doctrines of the Christian faith. In order to increase the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system pagans were received into the churches apart from regeneration by faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols,” including the cross.
Some writers point to the claim by the sun-god worshipper Constantine that in 312 C.E., while on one of his military campaigns, he had a vision of a cross superimposed on the sun along with the motto in Latin “in hoc vince” (by this conquer). Some time later, a “Christian” sign was emblazoned on the standards, shields, and armor of his army. (Pictured at left.) Constantine purportedly converted to Christianity, though he was not baptized until 25 years later on his deathbed. His motive was questioned by some. “He acted rather as if he were converting Christianity into what he thought most likely to be accepted by his subjects as a catholic [universal] religion, than as if he had been converted to the teachings of Jesus the Nazarene,” says the book The Non-Christian Cross.
Since then, crosses of many forms and shapes have come into use. For example, The Illustrated Bible Dictionary tells us that what is called St. Anthony’s cross “was shaped like a capital T, thought by some to be derived from the symbol of the [Babylonian] god Tammuz, the letter tau.” There was also the St. Andrew’s cross, which is in the shape of the letter X, and the familiar two-beamed cross with the crossbar lowered. This latter type, called the Latin cross, is erroneously “held by tradition to be the shape of the cross on which our Lord died.”
What First-Century Christians Believed
The Bible shows that in the first century, many who heard Jesus became believers and accepted the redeeming value of his sacrificial death. After the apostle Paul preached to the Jews in Corinth, proving that Jesus is the Christ, says the Bible, “Crispus the presiding officer of the synagogue became a believer in the Lord, and so did all his household. And many of the Corinthians that heard began to believe and be baptized.” (Acts 18:5-8) Instead of introducing some religious symbol or image into their worship, Paul instructed his fellow Christians to “flee from idolatry” and from any other practice drawn from pagan worship.—1 Corinthians 10:14.
Historians and researchers have found no evidence to validate the use of the cross among the early Christians. Interestingly, the book History of the Cross quotes one late 17th-century writer who asked: “Can it be pleasing to the blessed Jesus to behold His disciples glorying in the image of that instrument of capital punishment on which He [supposedly] patiently and innocently suffered, despising the shame?” How would you answer?
Worship acceptable to God does not require objects or images. “What agreement does God’s temple have with idols?” Paul asked. (2 Corinthians 6:14-16) Nowhere do the Scriptures suggest that a Christian’s worship should include the use of a likeness of the instrument used to impale Jesus.—Compare Matthew 15:3; Mark 7:13.
What, then, is the identifying mark of true Christians? Not the cross or any other symbol, but love. Jesus told his followers: “I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.”—John 13:34, 35.
 

Sophrosyne

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Jesus was executed by Romans, at that time they crucified people on crosses. The way they crucified them on the cross was one of the most painful ways to die at the time. A "stake" would be a cakewalk compared to crucifixion on a cross. Nobody in the New Testament equates us taking up our "stake" and following Jesus.
 
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WitnessforGOD

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Jesus was executed by Romans, at that time they crucified people on crosses. The way they crucified them on the cross was one of the most painful ways to die at the time. A "stake" would be a cakewalk compared to crucifixion on a cross. Nobody in the New Testament equates us taking up our "stake" and following Jesus.

If Jesus died on a cross how did he carry it?it would have been way to heavy!
 
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Radagast

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Most of christendoms churches teach Jesus died On a cross

That is because He did. We know what Roman crosses looked like, and so did the early Christians when they made pictures of them.

On a different note, you may not be aware that only people who accept the Nicene Creed are permitted to post in "Orthodox Christians only" areas.
 
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WitnessforGOD

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That is because He did. We know what Roman crosses looked like, and so did the early Christians when they made pictures of them.

On a different note, you may not be aware that only people who accept the Nicene Creed are permitted to post in "Orthodox Christians only" areas.
Your churches traditions>the bible

I've even just read a article confirming jesus died On a stake. The cross is pagan and not to be used in pure worship.
 
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Radagast

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Your churches traditions>the bible

If you're interested in the Bible, I suggest you read an accurate translation, not the JW version.

And, like I said, CF rules say that only Trinitarian Christians can post in the "Orthodox Christians only" areas.
 
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rcorlew

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I have actually seen evidence that Romans used crosses, scaffold like structures to execute multitudes of people at one time as well as impalement on stakes. The most common form of crucifixion though was by death on a cross. By the way, Jesus could not carry his cross all the way by himself, ergo, Simon the Cyrenian.
 
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Jipsah

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Your churches traditions>the bible
C'mon, dude! Your lot even went so far as to redact the Bible to make it conform to your own traditions. The "New World Translation" was genned up specifically to support your Arian beliefs.

I've even just read a article confirming jesus died On a stake. The cross is pagan and not to be used in pure worship.
If you're a JW, anyway.
 
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WitnessforGOD

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C'mon, dude! Your lot even went so far as to redact the Bible to make it conform to your own traditions. The "New World Translation" was genned up specifically to support your Arian beliefs.

If you're a JW, anyway.

The NWT is commended by scholars!


Professor Allen Wikgren of the University of Chicago cited the New World Translation as an example of a modern speech version that rather than being derived from other translations, often has “independent readings of merit.”—The Interpreter’s Bible, Volume I, page 99.
Commenting on the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, British Bible critic Alexander Thomson wrote: “The translation is evidently the work of skilled and clever scholars, who have sought to bring out as much of the true sense of the Greek text as the English language is capable of expressing.”—The Differentiator, April 1952, page 52.
Despite noting what he felt were a few unusual renderings, author Charles Francis Potter said: “The anonymous translators have certainly rendered the best manuscript texts, both Greek and Hebrew, with scholarly ability and acumen.”—The Faiths Men Live By, page 300.
Although he felt that the New World Translation had both peculiarities and excellences, Robert M. McCoy concluded his review of it by stating: “The translation of the New Testament is evidence of the presence in the movement [Jehovah’s Witnesses] of scholars qualified to deal intelligently with the many problems of Biblical translation.”—Andover Newton Quarterly, January 1963, page 31.
Professor S. MacLean Gilmour, while not agreeing with some renderings in the New World Translation, still acknowledged that its translators “possessed an unusual competence in Greek.”—Andover Newton Quarterly, September 1966, page 26.
In his review of the New World Translation that forms part of the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures, Associate Professor Thomas N. Winter wrote: “The translation by the anonymous committee is thoroughly up-to-date and consistently accurate.”—The Classical Journal, April-May 1974, page 376.
Professor Benjamin Kedar, a Hebrew scholar in Israel, said in 1989: “In my linguistic research in connection with the Hebrew Bible and translations, I often refer to the English edition of what is known as the New World Translation. In so doing, I find my feeling repeatedly confirmed that this work reflects an honest endeavor to achieve an understanding of the text that is as accurate as possible.”
Based on his analysis of nine major English translations, Jason David BeDuhn, associate professor of religious studies, wrote: “The NW [New World Translation] emerges as the most accurate of the translations compared.” Although the general public and many Bible scholars assume that the differences in the New World Translation are the result of religious bias on the part of its translators, BeDuhn stated: “Most of the differences are due to the greater accuracy of the NW as a literal, conservative translation of the original expressions of the New Testament writers.”—Truth in Translation, pages 163, 165.
 
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Standing Up

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Hello all, I'm new here and would like to start off with a question that a lot are confused about. Most of christendoms churches teach Jesus died On a cross-snip-

Wasn't this foreshadowed in a number of ways? For example,

Ex. 17:12 But Moses' hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun.

Num. 21:9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole [banner], and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

(the serpent wasn't wound around a staff, but the cross bar, it would hang in coils, as a snake in a tree)

Hope that helps in your search.
 
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Radagast

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Plus modern bibles take out Gods real name "Jehovah" in christendoms bibles.

As I said, you may not post here, and I'm sure the mods will remove this thread soon.

But I can't let that comment stand: the name Jehovah occurs nowhere in the Greek New Testament. Instead, the New Testament uses Kurios (Lord) both for God the Father and for Jesus. Indeed, Paul applies Old Testament quotes about God to Jesus (e.g. Romans 10:13).

The Jehovah's Witnesses have substantially altered the New Testament to take out the clear Trinitarian teaching which is there.

British Bible critic Alexander Thomson wrote: “The translation is evidently the work of skilled and clever scholars, who have sought to bring out as much of the true sense of the Greek text as the English language is capable of expressing.”—The Differentiator, April 1952, page 52.

Thomson was of course a banker, not a Bible scholar. And, of course, these "scholarly endorsements" involve taking substantial liberties with what people actually said, which is described here.
 
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graceandpeace

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Welcome to Christian Forums.

As has been noted, in general it is against the site's rules for non-Trinitarian believers to post in the Orthodox Christian forums. This is because all who sign up for the site & choose to identify as Christian are voicing agreement with the nearly universal standard of orthodoxy in the Christian religion, the ancient Nicene Creed.

Regarding the OP, in general we know from various ancient sources that those condemned to die by crucifixion generally carried only the cross bar. The vertical pole was stationary at an execution site, to be reused. There were different types of crosses used by the Romans, & I'm not interested in knowing with certainty which exact shape was Jesus' fate, though it does seem from the Gospels that the traditional t shape cross was likely used (I.e. Consider inscription placed above Jesus).

Regarding the use of "Jehovah," I don't object to the term, but this pronunciation of God's name is a Latinization of the Hebrew - it's not the actual spelling or pronunciation of the Hebrew. The most widely accepted pronunciation of the Tetragrammation is "Yahweh," but historically in Second Temple Judaism pronouncing the Name was avoided, being substituted with "Adonai," Lord. So while there is some consensus for "Yahweh," the historical pronunciation is not known with certainty.

Regarding "hell," it seems apparent from the Gospels that Jesus believed in some sort of exclusion from God's Kingdom. What that exclusion looks like, or how long it may last, is another matter. While I find Jehovah Witness doctrines to be a rejection of Christian orthodoxy, I generally find adherents to be devout believers. I certainly hope that if they love God & are faithful people that they will be in the Kingdom, & that errors in belief will be forgiven. Ultimately, it's not for me to judge, though I hope one day the religion will embrace historical Christian orthodoxy.
 
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