Did Jesus die on a cross or a stake?

[Hammster]

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[Tallguy88]

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[Der Alte]

Hello all, I'm new here and would like to start off with a question that a lot are confused about. Most of christendoms churches teach Jesus died On a cross hence they have crosses In there churches and on steeples and they wear a pagan torture device around there necks not knowing what the bible teaches about what Jesus died on.

Did Jesus Really Die on a Cross?

“THE cross,” says one encyclopedia, “is the most familiar symbol of Christianity.” Many religious paintings and works of art depict Jesus nailed to a cross. Why is this symbol so widespread in Christendom? Did Jesus really die on a cross?
Many would point to the Bible for the answer. For example, according to the King James Version, at the time of Jesus’ execution, onlookers made fun of Jesus and challenged him to “come down from the cross.” (Matthew 27:40, 42) Many other Bible translations read similarly. Today’s English Version says of Simon from Cyrene: “The soldiers forced him to carry Jesus’ cross.” (Mark 15:21) In these verses, the word “cross” is translated from the Greek word staurosʹ. Is there a solid basis for such a translation? What is the meaning of that original word?
Was It a Cross?
According to Greek scholar W. E. Vine, staurosʹ “denotes, primarily, an upright pale or stake. On such malefactors were nailed for execution. Both the noun and the verb stauroō, to fasten to a stake or pale, are originally to be distinguished from the ecclesiastical form of a two beamed cross.”
The Imperial Bible-Dictionary says that the word staurosʹ “properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling a piece of ground.” The dictionary continues: “Even amongst the Romans the crux (Latin, from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole.” Thus, it is not surprising that The Catholic Encyclopedia states: “Certain it is, at any rate, that the cross originally consisted of a simple vertical pole, sharpened at its upper end.”
There is another Greek word, xyʹlon, that Bible writers used to describe the instrument of Jesus’ execution. A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament defines xyʹlon as “a piece of timber, a wooden stake.” It goes on to say that like staurosʹ, xyʹlon “was simply an upright pale or stake to which the Romans nailed those who were thus said to be crucified.”
In line with this, we note that the King James Version reads at Acts 5:30: “The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree [xyʹlon].” Other versions, though rendering staurosʹ as “cross,” also translate xyʹlon as “tree.” At Acts 13:29, The Jerusalem Bible says of Jesus: “When they had carried out everything that scripture foretells about him they took him down from the tree [xyʹlon] and buried him.”
In view of the basic meaning of the Greek words staurosʹ and xyʹlon, the Critical Lexicon and Concordance, quoted above, observes: “Both words disagree with the modern idea of a cross, with which we have become familiarised by pictures.” In other words, what the Gospel writers described using the word staurosʹ was nothing like what people today call a cross. Appropriately, therefore, the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures uses the expression “torture stake” at Matthew 27:40-42 and in other places where the word staurosʹ appears. Similarly, the Complete Jewish Bible uses the expression “execution stake.”
Origin of the Cross
If the Bible does not really say that Jesus was executed on a cross, then why do all the churches that claim to teach and follow the Bible—Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox—adorn their buildings with the cross and use it as a symbol of their faith? How did the cross come to be such a popular symbol?
The answer is that the cross is venerated not only by churchgoers who claim to follow the Bible but also by people far removed from the Bible and whose worship far predates that of “Christian” churches. Numerous religious reference works acknowledge that the use of crosses in various shapes and forms goes back to remote periods of human civilization. For example, ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics and depictions of their gods and goddesses often show a cross in the shape of a T with a circle at the top. It is called the ansate, or handle-shaped, cross and is thought to be a symbol of life. In time, this form of the cross was adopted and used extensively by the Coptic Church and others.
According to The Catholic Encyclopedia, “the primitive form of the cross seems to have been that of the so-called ‘gamma’ cross (crux gammata), better known to Orientalists and students of prehistoric archæology by its Sanskrit name, swastika.” This sign was widely used among Hindus in India and Buddhists throughout Asia and is still seen in decorations and ornaments in those areas.
It is not known exactly when the cross was adopted as a “Christian” symbol. Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words states: “By the middle of the 3rd cent. A.D. the churches had either departed from, or had travestied, certain doctrines of the Christian faith. In order to increase the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system pagans were received into the churches apart from regeneration by faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols,” including the cross.
Some writers point to the claim by the sun-god worshipper Constantine that in 312 C.E., while on one of his military campaigns, he had a vision of a cross superimposed on the sun along with the motto in Latin “in hoc vince” (by this conquer). Some time later, a “Christian” sign was emblazoned on the standards, shields, and armor of his army. (Pictured at left.) Constantine purportedly converted to Christianity, though he was not baptized until 25 years later on his deathbed. His motive was questioned by some. “He acted rather as if he were converting Christianity into what he thought most likely to be accepted by his subjects as a catholic [universal] religion, than as if he had been converted to the teachings of Jesus the Nazarene,” says the book The Non-Christian Cross.
Since then, crosses of many forms and shapes have come into use. For example, The Illustrated Bible Dictionary tells us that what is called St. Anthony’s cross “was shaped like a capital T, thought by some to be derived from the symbol of the [Babylonian] god Tammuz, the letter tau.” There was also the St. Andrew’s cross, which is in the shape of the letter X, and the familiar two-beamed cross with the crossbar lowered. This latter type, called the Latin cross, is erroneously “held by tradition to be the shape of the cross on which our Lord died.”
What First-Century Christians Believed
The Bible shows that in the first century, many who heard Jesus became believers and accepted the redeeming value of his sacrificial death. After the apostle Paul preached to the Jews in Corinth, proving that Jesus is the Christ, says the Bible, “Crispus the presiding officer of the synagogue became a believer in the Lord, and so did all his household. And many of the Corinthians that heard began to believe and be baptized.” (Acts 18:5-8) Instead of introducing some religious symbol or image into their worship, Paul instructed his fellow Christians to “flee from idolatry” and from any other practice drawn from pagan worship.—1 Corinthians 10:14.
Historians and researchers have found no evidence to validate the use of the cross among the early Christians. Interestingly, the book History of the Cross quotes one late 17th-century writer who asked: “Can it be pleasing to the blessed Jesus to behold His disciples glorying in the image of that instrument of capital punishment on which He [supposedly] patiently and innocently suffered, despising the shame?” How would you answer?
Worship acceptable to God does not require objects or images. “What agreement does God’s temple have with idols?” Paul asked. (2 Corinthians 6:14-16) Nowhere do the Scriptures suggest that a Christian’s worship should include the use of a likeness of the instrument used to impale Jesus.—Compare Matthew 15:3; Mark 7:13.
What, then, is the identifying mark of true Christians? Not the cross or any other symbol, but love. Jesus told his followers: “I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.”—John 13:34, 35.

This is a "discussion forum." We discuss. Copy/pasting an entire article from your WTBS library CD does not equal discussion. This article was published in Awake 4/06/2006. Posting this article without citing the source is dishonest and violates CF rules.

 

[Albion]

Your churches traditions>the bible

I've even just read a article confirming jesus died On a stake. The cross is pagan and not to be used in pure worship.

Maybe that is something to tell the Romans--don't do what a pagan would do when executing a criminal. But the Romans did use crosses, and the word "stauron" means either an upright stake or a cross. The Romans preferred the cross.

 

[Patchworks]

Jesus was killed on a cross. The Persians invented this capital punishment but the Romans perfected it.

 

[abysmul]

If the sacrifice of Christ boils down to Did Jesus die on a cross or a stake? ... I think a point is being missed somewhere.

 

[MoreCoffee]

It was a cross.

Jehovah's witnesses have a phobia about crosses; reckon it's a pagan symbol to do with Tammuz because they read The Two Babylons and believed that silly book.

 

[Jd34]

Jesus was crucified on a cross. Historically, it is a well know fact that this is how Rome crucified criminals, trouble makers, ect... Exactly the way they precieved Jesus. Just not a lot of reason to speculate that he died any other way.

 

[ChetSinger]

If the sacrifice of Christ boils down to Did Jesus die on a cross or a stake? ... I think a point is being missed somewhere.

+1.

I don't see any NT theological significance in the particular geometry of the "stauros".

 

[yogosans14]

If this is true I should burn my cross necklaces

Jk.

 

[Hammster]

If the sacrifice of Christ boils down to Did Jesus die on a cross or a stake? ... I think a point is being missed somewhere.

Nailed it (no pun intended).

So let's pretend it was a stake. Then what?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Nailed it (no pun intended).

So let's pretend it was a stake. Then what?

You get to say "see, crosses ARE pagan!"

 

[abysmul]

You get to say "see, crosses ARE pagan!"

I for one, am glad that me and my fellow Christians don't nail people to pagan crosses.

 

[Hammster]

You get to say "see, crosses ARE pagan!"

Well....there's that.

 

[Ripheus27]

I will preach only Christ and Christ torture-staked.

 

[C.O.Ioves]

.

 

[Der Alte]

Every early church father who describes the stavros in the N.T. describes it as shaped like an +

d. Justin Martyr (b. 100 AD — younger contemporary of Polycarp, and taught by men who had learned from Apostles) says of the cross:
“...Moses first exhibited this seeming curse [of crucifixion] of Christ's by the signs which he made ... stretching out both hands ... (and) if he gave up any part of this sign, which was an imitation of the cross, the people were beaten. ...and he who prevailed, prevailed by the cross ... he himself made the sign of the cross.”

And again, of the cross:

“For the one beam is placed upright, from which the highest extremity is raise up into a horn, when the other beam is fitted on to it, and the ends appear on both sides as horns joined on to the one horn. And the part [seat] which is fixed in the center, on which are suspended those who are crucified, also stands out like a horn...”

And again, Justin says of the universal importance of “this form” of the cross:

“And the human form differs from that of the irrational animals in nothing else then in its being erect and having the hands extended ... and this shows no other form than that of the cross.” And again: “the power of this form is shown by your own [Roman] symbols on what are called ‘vexilla’ (banners) [which shape is a pole with a cross-bar] and trophies, with which all your state possessions [sic — "processions"] are made, using these as the insignia of your power and government, even though you do so unwittingly.”

And again: “the sea is not traversed except that the trophy which is called a sail abide safe in the ship.” (Trophy: “A memorial of a victory... It consisted originally of armor, weapons, etc., of the defeated enemy fixed to the trunk of a tree or to a post on an elevated site, with an inscription, and a dedication to a divinity.”)

“‘the government shall be upon His shoulders’; which is significant of the power of the cross, for to it, when He was crucified, He applied His shoulders, as shall be more clearly made out in the ensuing discourse. And again the same prophet Isaiah, being inspired by the prophetic Spirit, said, ‘I have spread out my hands to a disobedient age gainsaying people...’ And again in other words, through another prophet, He says, ‘They pierced My hands and My feet, and for My vesture they cast lots.’”

e. Minucius Felix, writing perhaps as early as 166 AD, in his ‘Octavius’ refers to standards, banners, flags, trophies, masts, yokes, and prayer with outstretched arms, as representing the cross, and adds, “Thus the sign of the cross either is sustained by a natural reason, or your own religion is formed with respect to it.”

f. Irenaeus (c. AD 130-200 — student of Polycarp, student of John) indicates that it is on the familiar ‘immissa’ that Christ died: “The very form of the cross, too, has five extremities, two in length, two in breadth, and one in the middle, [a seat] on which the person rests who is fixed by the nails.”

Elsewhere, he says:

“For as we lost it [or Him — the word or Word] by means of a tree [in Eden], by means of a tree again was [He] made manifest to all, showing the height, the length, the breadth, the depth in [Himself]; and, as a certain man among our predecessors observed, ‘Through the extension of the hands of a divine person, gathering together the two peoples to one God.’ For these were two hands, because there were two peoples scattered to the ends of the earth; but there was one head [Jesus Christ] in the middle...”

g. Tertullian says, in speaking of the need for prayer, that “birds too, rising out of the nest, upraise themselves heaven-ward, and, instead of hands, expand the cross of their wings, and say somewhat to seem like prayer.” He says, of the Romans: “But you also worship victories, for in your trophies the cross is the heart of the trophy. The camp religion of the Romans is all through a worship of the standards, a setting [of] the standards above all gods. Well, as those images decking out the standards are ornaments of crosses ... [so all] those hangings of your standards and banners are robes of crosses. I praise your zeal; you would not consecrate crosses unclothed and unadorned.”

In the same place he says:
“And yet how far does the Athenian Pallas differ from the stock of the cross, or the Pharian Ceres as she is put up uncarved to sale, a mere rough stake and piece of shapeless wood? Every stake fixed in an upright position is a portion of the cross...”

Using similar reasoning in his ‘Ad Nationes,’ he adds,
“Every piece of timber which is fixed in the ground in an erect position is a part of a cross, and indeed the greater portion of its mass. But an entire cross is attributed to us, with its transverse beam, of course, and its projecting seat.” And speaking of Christian “ancient practice”, which “custom — which without doubt flowed from tradition — has confirmed”, Tertullian refers to “all the ordinary actions of daily life, [in which] we trace upon the forehead the sign [of the cross].”

Again, Tertullian says:
“For Joseph is withal blest by his father [sic — Moses] after this form: ‘His glory is that of a bull; his horns, the horns of an unicorn...’ But Christ was therein signified: ‘bull,’ by reason of each of His two characters, — to some fierce, as Judge; to others gentle, as Saviour; whose ‘horns’ were to be the extremities of the cross. For even in a ship's yard — which is part of a cross — this [word, i.e., ‘horn’] is the name by which the extremities are called; while the central pole of the mast is a ‘unicorn.’ By this power, in fact, of the cross, and in this manner horned, He does now, on the one hand ‘toss’ the universal nations...”

And in the same place, he asks
why Moses prayed “with hands expanded, when, in circumstances so critical, he ought rather, surely, to have ... hands beating his breast, and a face prostrate on the ground; except it was that ... the figure of the cross was also necessary”.

h. Novatian, writing about 257, says:
“But He [God] cannot be received as God the Father; but as God and Angel, as Christ, He can be received. And Him [Christ], as the author of this blessing, Jacob also signified by placing his hands crossed [in the sign] upon the lads, as if their father was Christ, and showing, from thus placing his hands, the figure and future form of the passion. Let no one, therefore, who does not shrink from speaking of Christ as an Angel, thus shrink from pronouncing Him God also, when he perceives that He Himself was invoked in the blessing to these lads, by the sacrament of the passion, intimated in the type of the crossed hands, as both God and Angel.”​

 

[WitnessforGOD]

I would like to share with you from the Scripture, being the King James Bible, itself, that the instrument was indeed the Cross. Would you be willing to consider with me in the Scripture this evidence? If yes, please let me know.
​

The kjv has been known for adding texts to support the pagan trinity doctrine, it's extremely inaccurate.

 

[bloodbought09]

The kjv has been known for adding texts to support the pagan trinity doctrine, it's extremely inaccurate.

Nope, KJV is 100 percent accurate. Your version takes out the divinity of Christ.

KJV

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

Your version says that the word was a god. If this is not pagan, I do not know what is. Your version has taken out Jesus Christ as the word of God and replaced him with "a god".

And my bible does use the name of God, Jehovah in one instance but let us not argue about that. He has many names, Emmanuel (God with us), Jehovah Nissi (The Lord my banner), Jehovah Shalom (The Lord is my peace), Alpha and Omega, The Great Physician, and as we know Him Jesus Christ, My Lord and my God as Timothy called Him, who like you would not believe on His divinity until He showed Himself to you and to me.

1 John 5:7

King James Bible
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

 

[bloodbought09]

And the Jehovah's Witnesses deny the existence of hell when Jesus plainly says:

Mark 9:43-44

43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

What can be said about those who add and subtract from the word of God:

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish aught from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

Proverbs 30:6 Add thou not unto His words, lest He reprove thee and thou be found a liar.

Revelation 22:18-19

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

So, be careful that your version does not add or subtract to the Word of God. It says right here that there are dire consequences.

I am going to be very blunt. Jehovah's Witnesses is a cult, is deceived and deceiving, and leading millions of people to a hell they claim they do not believe in. Why? Because they do not follow the Lord Jesus Christ but the watchtower society who lies to them and tells them what to believe and how to argue with people who know the truth, the life, and the way, Jesus Christ.