Common Core promoting Islam!!!!

[TLK Valentine]

Evidence? C'mon, you saw the scales. She weighs the same as a duck.

And that, my Liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped...

 

[TLK Valentine]

That was never the charge.

The goalposts change every thirty seconds, so it's understandable that the "charge" gets missed -- some of us do have to blink once in a while.

An old tactic. By equating all religions you diminish the value of certain religions in the very places they are most practiced.

Ah -- are you saying that here in America, the idea that religions are equal should not be taught?

It also foments sympathy, so that when someone attempts to address flaws in and perversions of that religion others respond with hostility, slander, and insult. As has happened here.

I can see how sympathy would be of little to no use to some of the posters around here.

Which you have refused to even attempt to refute, other than to sling mud.

Let's see:

Religions being treated equally in America = bad.

Sympathy for ideas not one's own = bad.

Is that what we're supposed to refute?

 

[CaDan]

When we get back from vacation, I'm going to ask my debaters what sort of religious information was taught to them in school. Since my team includes at least one each of Pentecostal, Muslim, Animist, and Tibetan Buddhist, the answers should be interesting.

 

[kiwimac]

That was never the charge.



An old tactic. By equating all religions you diminish the value of certain religions in the very places they are most practiced. It also foments sympathy, so that when someone attempts to address flaws in and perversions of that religion others respond with hostility, slander, and insult. As has happened here.



Which you have refused to even attempt to refute, other than to sling mud.

Rot! Have you even bothered to study Islam? By study, btw, I mean actual academic study not " Oh, I read something on a site and it tells me all I need to know!" Finally, Rot!

 

[morningstar2651]

Excellent quote, which brings the following quote to mind.

If you tell a lie big enough, and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension,the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.
Joseph Goebbels (1897-1945)
NAZI Propaganda Minister
​

Thanks for the quote.

It does explain a lot about the methods that people resort to, even here in this thread, against Sistrin in this instance.

People who don't believe that Common Core is a Muslim conspiracy are Nazis!

 

[Sistrin]

The goalposts change every thirty seconds, so it's understandable that the "charge" gets missed...

Only if you can't keep up with your own arguments. I have been very consistent here. Regardless, here is the comment I was responding to:

Didn't call the students to prayer. Didn't ask the students to abandon their own religion and worship Allah.

You want to be impressive post where either I or the OP made either of these claims. The claim was Common Core is promoting Islam. In order to promote Islam in a classroom of public school children the last thing a teacher could currently do is call them to prayer, as prayer has been outlawed within the public school setting and gnomon knows it. So do you, but to factor that into your replies would prevent you from moving the goalpost.

Ah -- are you saying that here in America, the idea that religions are equal should not be taught?

I am saying not all religions are equal, and insisting they are is largely an attempt to diminish one or more religions in favor of another. Atheist and satanist have used this tactic to gain legal status for a belief system which is nothing more than cult worship. Radical Islam and its supporters are using it to insert what they want taught concerning Islam into the American public school system. Both groups have agendas they are seeking to advance, which in the case of groups such as CAIR, INSA, and the Muslim Brotherhood, an agenda they themselves have clearly articulated. You just refuse to listen.

Do you really believe any lesson concerning Islam constructed to satisfy Common Core standards is going to include this? Quote:

Azhar’s Scholars in Egypt

In his book, "Jurisprudence in Muhammad’s Biography", the Azhar scholar, Dr. Muhammad Sa’id Ramadan al-Buti says the following (page 134, 7th edition):

"The Holy War, as it is known in Islamic Jurisprudence, is basically an offensive war. This is the duty of Muslims in every age when the needed military power becomes available to them. This is the phase in which the meaning of Holy War has taken its final form. Thus the apostle of God said: ‘I was commanded to fight the people until they believe in God and his message ..."’

Dr. Buti deduces from Muhammad’s statement that this is the concept of offensive war—this is Holy War as it is known in Islamic jurisprudence. Notice by his statement also that this matter is a duty incumbent on every Muslim in every age. The time will come when East and West, as well as politicians and military personnel all over the world will realize that the real military danger is the Islamic community. When the needed military power becomes available to them, they will wage wars and invade other countries.

Sourced below.

I can see how sympathy would be of little to no use to some of the posters around here.

I have sympathy for American public school students, students who are not being taught how to think, but rather how to think in the manner various members of the liberal/progressive crowd want them to.

Religions being treated equally in America = bad.

Islam still condones slavery. Is that what makes it equal to Christianity or Judaism?

The Scholars of al-Azhar in Egypt

In his book, "You Ask and Islam Answers", Dr. 'Abdul-Latif Mushtahari, the general supervisor and director of homiletics and guidance at the Azhar University, says (pp. 51,52),

"Islam does not prohibit slavery but retains it for two reasons. The first reason is war (whether it is a civil war or a foreign war in which the captive is either killed or enslaved) provided that the war is not between Muslims against each other - it is not acceptable to enslave the violators, or the offenders, if they are Muslims. Only non-Muslim captives may be enslaved or killed. The second reason is the sexual propagation of slaves which would generate more slaves for their owner."

The text is plain that all prisoners of war must either be killed or become slaves. The ancient scholars are in full agreement over this issue, such as Ibn Timiyya, Ibn Hisham, Malik etc. Ibn Timiyya says (Vol. 32, p. 89),

"The root of the beginning of slavery is prisoners of war; the bounties have become lawful to the nation of Muhammad."

Then (Vol. 31, p. 380), he indicates clearly and without shame,

"Slavery is justified because of the war itself; however, it is not permissible to enslave a free Muslim. It is lawful to kill the infidel or to enslave him, and it also makes it lawful to take his offspring into captivity.

In Part 4, p. 177 of the "Prophet Biography" (Al-Road Al-Anf'), Ibn Hisham says,

"According to Islamic law concerning prisoners of war, the decision is left to the Muslim Imam. He has the choice either to kill them or to exchange them for Muslim captives, or to enslave them. This is in regard to men, but women and children are not permitted to be killed, but must be exchanged (to redeem Muslim captives) or enslaved - take them as slaves and maids."

Source: Slavery in Islam

When we get back from vacation, I'm going to ask my debaters...

You are really into self-promotion, aren't you?

Rot! Have you even bothered to study Islam?

Yeah, up close and personal, on their own ground, while holding an M-4. I suggest you try it, see if you remain so self-righteous. I admit my experiences have left me a bit biased, but when I hear someone pontificate from on high about the religion of peace advocating only one side of the issue ever be broached, I have seen where that leads so don't expect me to be quiet about it.

By study, btw, I mean actual academic study...

Have you? There is much to be said for on the job training.

 

[morningstar2651]

• There is still no evidence that Common Core promotes Islam.
• There is still no Islamic conspiracy to convert schoolchildren to Islam by setting English and Math standards via Common Core.
• The premise of this thread is still ridiculous.
• I don't recommend pointing an M4 carbine at educators, schoolchildren, Muslims, or anyone else in an attempt to see the world through Sistrin's eyes.

Sistrin, are you ex-military, or did you just aim a carbine at Muslims for fun? If you're ex-military, then you ought to understand that the training you underwent is designed to dehumanize your intended enemy by any means necessary to make it easier for you to pull the trigger. This was done primarily to make you an effective soldier who wouldn't freeze up when it came time to shoot someone.

Islam was not your enemy - paramilitary terrorist organizations that used the dominant religion of their culture to recruit and brainwash disposable soldiers was your enemy. These terrorist organizations would have worn a Christian facade if Christianity were the majority religion of their culture. They promulgate extreme fringe beliefs but their ultimate motives are non-religious. Like our soldiers, their soldiers were trained in a way that dehumanized their intended enemy by any means necessary to make it easier for them to pull the trigger.

Comparing Osama bin Ladin and Al Qaeda to mainstream Islam is like comparing David Koresh and the Branch Davidians with mainstream Christianity. They have the trappings of the religion, but they abuse and distort the teachings of the religion to achieve non-religious ends.

 

[Sistrin]

I don't recommend pointing an M4 carbine at educators, schoolchildren, Muslims, or anyone else in an attempt to see the world through Sistrin's eyes.

Is this some backhanded attempt to make the baby-killer charge? That because I actually wore the uniform and did my job in your eyes I am the terrorist? Because if that is what you are hinting at you should have the decency to just say it.

 

[wing2000]

The claim was Common Core is promoting Islam.

And you have yet to effectively demonstrate the said vocabulary lesson promotes Islam.

 

[morningstar2651]

Is this some backhanded attempt to make the baby-killer charge? That because I actually wore the uniform and did my job in your eyes I am the terrorist? Because if that is what you are hinting at you should have the decency to just say it.

I think you're reading more into what I wrote than I intended. I simply meant to suggest that there are more appropriate ways to empathize with someone's point of view than aiming a firearm at someone.

I support our troops, I supported the invasion of Afghanistan, and I supported (and later regretted) our invasion of Iraq. I may be Pagan, but please don't assume I'm a dirty anti-military hippie. I have friends and family who are veterans of war or are currently on active duty.

Your training was designed to dehumanize your enemies, not your fellow countrymen. I want to reiterate that Islam was not your enemy and it never was - your enemy was a terrorist organization that used the dominant religion of its culture to recruit and brainwash disposable soldiers to commit atrocities in the pursuit of political goals.

There is no organized Muslim plot to convert our school children through the use of the English and Math standards of common core. That plot even sounds ridiculous, but it is exactly what was claimed in the OP and it's the argument you have repeatedly attempted to support. If you would like to discuss other non-common core related worksheets, I welcome you to start a new thread to discuss those worksheets outside the context of common core, but this one has run its course. It's been thoroughly established that common core does not promote Islam and is not the source of the worksheets or handouts alleged to be in the schools' curriculum.

 

[GarfieldJL]

Rot! Have you even bothered to study Islam? By study, btw, I mean actual academic study not " Oh, I read something on a site and it tells me all I need to know!" Finally, Rot!

I have actually studied Islam, and the Quran preaches violence a lot more than the Bible.

The two texts are very different in layout, the Quran is laid out more like a rulebook, while the Bible is laid out more in a manner that you would see from a history textbook.

 

[TLK Valentine]

The claim was Common Core is promoting Islam.

A claim which has long since been debunked.

I am saying not all religions are equal,

The United States Constitution says otherwise -- so what you're proposing is, quite literally, un-American.

Why should American schools promote un-American ideas?

Atheist and satanist have used this tactic to gain legal status for a belief system which is nothing more than cult worship.

The only thing Atheists and Satanists have ever done is avail themselves of the same legal rights, privileges, and protections which Christians enjoy for themselves.

Is that somehow a bad thing? Are there supposed to be one set of laws for Christians, and another set for the rest of us?

Radical Islam and its supporters are using it to insert what they want taught concerning Islam into the American public school system. Both groups have agendas they are seeking to advance, which in the case of groups such as CAIR, INSA, and the Muslim Brotherhood, an agenda they themselves have clearly articulated. You just refuse to listen.

I listen to all sorts of nonsense; I just choose not to believe in it.

I certainly choose not to act on it, when such action would only serve to make things worse than the alleged problem.

You want freedom; so does everyone else.

Do you really believe any lesson concerning Islam constructed to satisfy Common Core standards is going to include this? Quote:

Azhar’s Scholars in Egypt

In his book, "Jurisprudence in Muhammad’s Biography", the Azhar scholar, Dr. Muhammad Sa’id Ramadan al-Buti says the following (page 134, 7th edition):

"The Holy War, as it is known in Islamic Jurisprudence, is basically an offensive war. This is the duty of Muslims in every age when the needed military power becomes available to them. This is the phase in which the meaning of Holy War has taken its final form. Thus the apostle of God said: ‘I was commanded to fight the people until they believe in God and his message ..."’

Dr. Buti deduces from Muhammad’s statement that this is the concept of offensive war—this is Holy War as it is known in Islamic jurisprudence. Notice by his statement also that this matter is a duty incumbent on every Muslim in every age. The time will come when East and West, as well as politicians and military personnel all over the world will realize that the real military danger is the Islamic community. When the needed military power becomes available to them, they will wage wars and invade other countries.

Sourced below.

Well, considering that Common Core only covers English/Language arts and Math, the historical content of such a lesson is irrelevant. Whether the lesson paints Islam in a positive light, or contains a requisite amount of hatred is not covered under the standards.

As someone who actually does work with Common Core, I've been trying to tell you this for quite some time.

I have sympathy for American public school students, students who are not being taught how to think, but rather how to think in the manner various members of the liberal/progressive crowd want them to.

You mean not being taught how to think as you do.... jealous much?

Islam still condones slavery. Is that what makes it equal to Christianity or Judaism?

Christianity and Judaism both condone slavery; secular laws keep them in check. Then they changed their tunes in order to be politically correct.

You see, the US Constitution outlaws slavery -- not the Old or New Testaments.

Religious beliefs cannot trump the Constitution, but nterestingly enough, the only religious group I've seen who have been trying to place their beliefs over US law is the Christians... they only start objecting when the laws they push for are used by people they don't like.

When will some people learn that the law applies to everybody equally in this country?

In his book, "You Ask and Islam Answers", Dr. 'Abdul-Latif Mushtahari, the general supervisor and director of homiletics and guidance at the Azhar University, says (pp. 51,52),

"Islam does not prohibit slavery but retains it for two reasons. The first reason is war (whether it is a civil war or a foreign war in which the captive is either killed or enslaved) provided that the war is not between Muslims against each other - it is not acceptable to enslave the violators, or the offenders, if they are Muslims. Only non-Muslim captives may be enslaved or killed. The second reason is the sexual propagation of slaves which would generate more slaves for their owner."

The text is plain that all prisoners of war must either be killed or become slaves. The ancient scholars are in full agreement over this issue, such as Ibn Timiyya, Ibn Hisham, Malik etc. Ibn Timiyya says (Vol. 32, p. 89),

Same as the Bible. What's your point?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Yeah, up close and personal, on their own ground, while holding an M-4. I suggest you try it, see if you remain so self-righteous. I admit my experiences have left me a bit biased, but when I hear someone pontificate from on high about the religion of peace advocating only one side of the issue ever be broached, I have seen where that leads so don't expect me to be quiet about it.

Trust me, Sistrin, nobody expects you to be quiet about it. But nor are we going to end every lesson with "Islam delenda est" just to satisfy anyone.

It's the downside of religious freedom; you get it (so long as you follow the laws) -- so does everyone else (under the same condition).

The upside, of course, is that religious fanatics are protected from their own shortsightedness -- many Christians have discovered, to their continual shock and horror, that the laws they use to promote their own religion often are used by people they don't like... then they pull a 180 so quickly it's a miracle they don't give themselves whiplash.

That cuts both ways -- pass a law to restrict religion; don't be surprised when it inevitably turns around and bites you.

 

[GarfieldJL]

That cuts both ways -- pass a law to restrict religion; don't be surprised when it inevitably turns around and bites you.

The Bible doesn't preach for one to murder nonbelievers (while yes some Christians behaved that way in the past they generally don't now). The Quran on the other hand has three options for the likes of you and me:

1. Convert
2. Submission/Slavery
3. Death

The 1st Amendment does not give people the rights to inflict violence on those whom aren't of the same religion...

The threat we're dealing with are radical fundamentalist Muslims (or militant Islam), we should be treating this threat seriously not worrying about offending people. If moderate Muslims want to be offended how about they stand up to the radicals and help put a stop to them, instead a lot of them offer excuses for the barbaric behavior.

The 1st Amendment is not a suicide pact.

 

[Sistrin]

...then you ought to understand that the training you underwent is designed to dehumanize your intended enemy by any means necessary to make it easier for you to pull the trigger.

Our training was based on a simple truth, that when we got to the battlefield the enemy we would encounter was comprised of highly motivated individuals, some of whom were true zealots, who would not hesitate to kill us if given any chance to do so. The days of hanging posters in the barracks or around the training area depicting the enemy as cartoonish beast have long past. However in order to see what our enemy was capable of we did not need any indoctrination. All that was required was to turn on the evening news.

This was done primarily to make you an effective soldier who wouldn't freeze up when it came time to shoot someone.

Combat training is designed to develop muscle memory, the ability to quickly identify threats, quick reaction to those threats, and recognition of battlefield situations and how to overcome those situations within the current rules of engagement. The latter means we were not taught to shoot educators and school children.

Islam was not your enemy...

I never said it was. I never said all Muslims were anything. I cited specific groups.

...paramilitary terrorist organizations that used the dominant religion of their culture to recruit and brainwash disposable soldiers was your enemy.

Which is part of the point I have been making. The Islamic fundamentalist know they can't yet go into an American elementary school and massacre all the children they find, because currently such an attack would galvanize the majority of the American people into demanding a decidedly violent response. As loath as the American left is to use the US military for anything other than a glorified SWAT Team, in the face of such an attack even their hands would be tied.

Option two is indoctrination, a tactic utilized by every totalitarian regime which has ever even wanted to impose power. Common Core isn't designed to promote Islam in nothing but a positive light, groups such as CIAR, INSA, and the Muslim Brootherhood, with the help of the American left, are using Common Core to advance that image in pursuit of their agenda. Again, they have articulated this strategy themselves, if you would but research it.

These terrorist organizations would have worn a Christian facade if Christianity were the majority religion of their culture.

If Christianity were the dominant religion in that region, they wouldn't be going into elementary schools and murdering all the children, as happened recently in Pakistan.

They promulgate extreme fringe beliefs but their ultimate motives are non-religious.

In this you are just wrong. The motives of Radical Islam are founded in their religious beliefs. Just as when a Christian believes they are practicing the tenets of their religion when they volunteer to work in a soup kitchen providing food for the homeless, so does a Muslim operative believe they are practicing the tenets of their religion when they murder children and cut the heads off of journalist.

Read over this list and tell me how many times the words battle, conquest, campaigns, or invasion are used.

Islamic History (Chronology)

In addition, quote:

Undoubtedly, the concept of an offensive war to spread the faith is a genuine Islamic concept; it is known as a Holy War for the sake of God. We will see what Muslim scholars have explicitly determined that this is the essence of Islam. They also indicate that if sufficient military power is available to Islamic countries, they ought to attack all other countries in order to force them to embrace Islam, or pay the poll tax and be subject to Islamic rule. Muhammad (as well as all the Caliphs who succeeded him) called for holy wars. All scholars and lawyers acknowledge that.

Those who say that the Islamic wars were always defensive do not understand Islam and have not read sufficient history. It should be evident that offensive wars to spread Islam are the heart of the entire religion of Islam.

Source: Offensive War to Spread Islam

Like our soldiers, their soldiers were trained in a way that dehumanized their intended enemy by any means necessary to make it easier for them to pull the trigger.

Wrong. It is endemic within their philosophy to view the infidel, whomever he may be, as inferior.

From: Islamic Imperialism: A History, by Efraim Karsh. Yale, 2006. $30, 320pp., ISBN 0-300-10603-3

"I was ordered to fight all men until they say 'There is no god but Allah.'"

Prophet Muhammad's farewell address, March 632

"We will export our revolution throughout the world . . . until the calls 'there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah' are echoed all over the world."

Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, 1979

"I was ordered to fight the people until they say there is no god but Allah, and his prophet Muhammad."

Osama bin Laden, November 2001

Prof. Karsh, Head of the Mediterranean Studies Program at King's College, University of London and author of Empires of the Sand and Arafat's War, among others, opens this provocative examination of Islamic imperialism with the quotations cited above. They serve as a springboard for his analysis and raise an important question: Why is it so hard for so many to take these people at their word?

Why indeed, I wonder as well.

Comparing Osama bin Ladin and Al Qaeda to mainstream Islam is like comparing David Koresh and the Branch Davidians with mainstream Christianity. They have the trappings of the religion, but they abuse and distort the teachings of the religion to achieve non-religious ends.

That is debatable. Of course there are of peaceful Muslims the world over who would love for the radicals to shut up and go away. But they are not exerting control, the radicals are.

I think you're reading more into what I wrote than I intended. I simply meant to suggest that there are more appropriate ways to empathize with someone's point of view than aiming a firearm at someone.

When you aim a weapon at someone the last thing you are trying to do is empathize with them. The only point of view you can see they have is the muzzle of the weapon they are pointing at you. Geez...

There is no organized Muslim plot to convert our school children through the use of the English and Math standards of common core.

Then why is CAIR so supportive of Common Core?

However I specified the lesson was designed to discuss Mohammad in a positive context and engender sympathy. In doing so it presents only one side of the story.

It's been thoroughly established that common core does not promote Islam and is not the source of the worksheets or handouts alleged to be in the schools' curriculum.

The former you have not established that at all. The latter is not a claim I have made. Those crafting Common Core standards are, for the most part, not designing the worksheets. However the worksheets are designed to satisfy the requirements of Common Core.

 

[TLK Valentine]

The Bible doesn't preach for one to murder nonbelievers (while yes some Christians behaved that way in the past they generally don't now). The Quran on the other hand has three options for the likes of you and me:

1. Convert
2. Submission/Slavery
3. Death

The 1st Amendment does not give people the rights to inflict violence on those whom aren't of the same religion...

So why are you worried that Muslim-Americans are going to ignore the First Amendment and go on a rampage?

The threat we're dealing with are radical fundamentalist Muslims (or militant Islam), we should be treating this threat seriously not worrying about offending people.

Radical fundamentalists of any religion are pretty threatening, butwhat specific anti-Muslim laws are you considering?

If moderate Muslims want to be offended how about they stand up to the radicals and help put a stop to them, instead a lot of them offer excuses for the barbaric behavior.

In your opinion.

The only person I've seen offer excuses for their barbaric behavior is you. "The Quran on the other hand has three options for the likes of you and me," remember?

The 1st Amendment is not a suicide pact.

Nevertheless, it keeps them -- and you -- in check.

Seems to be working well enough to me.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

I am confused now. You people have turned this into a Islam bashing thread instead of what the thread should be about, which is what I thought was about why public schools seem to or not to be promoting a religion when they should be completely sanitized of it unless the lesson is specifically on religion.

Are you mad because they seem to be promoting islam or are you mad because they are promoting a religion period? What is it?

 

[TLK Valentine]

I am confused now. You people have turned this into a Islam bashing thread instead of what the thread should be about, which is what I thought was about why public schools seem to or not to be promoting a religion when they should be completely sanitized of it unless the lesson is specifically on religion.

Well, that's what it always comes down to: Islam delenda est.

Anything less, and you're a terrorist.

(anyone else seeing the irony?)

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

I wouldn't want my school to promote christianity. because public schools suck anyhow and they will probably teach it wrong. considering the thousand different denominations people would be complaining that they aren't teaching their brand of christianity. Schools should remain out of promoting any religion and leave that to the parents and local religious establishments. If the school was doing it I would spend all I could to take my children out that sort of environment. they could be teaching them the hate filled westboro baptist brand of christianity for all I know.

 

[GarfieldJL]

So why are you worried that Muslim-Americans are going to ignore the First Amendment and go on a rampage?

I'm guessing you missed all the news stories about young American Muslims trying to sneak overseas to join ISIS...

Then there was the Ft. Hood shooting, despite the Obama Administration calling it "workplace violence," it was clearly terrorism.

Radical fundamentalists of any religion are pretty threatening, butwhat specific anti-Muslim laws are you considering?

I don't recall any Catholic Nuns running around decapitating nonCatholics recently, do you?

Other than barring the use of Shariah Law in the United States, I'm not going to go down that road. What I want is for people to recognize what's going on instead of being worried about "offending" someone.

In your opinion.

The only person I've seen offer excuses for their barbaric behavior is you. "The Quran on the other hand has three options for the likes of you and me," remember?

I'm stating a fact, not trying to justify or excuse their behavior. I'm also guessing you've missed some of the anti-Israel posters in the News and Events section that have tried to excuse the behavior of terrorist groups like Hamas...

Nevertheless, it keeps them -- and you -- in check.

Seems to be working well enough to me.

Just what are you trying to imply with the above comment?

I am confused now. You people have turned this into a Islam bashing thread instead of what the thread should be about, which is what I thought was about why public schools seem to or not to be promoting a religion when they should be completely sanitized of it unless the lesson is specifically on religion.


Are you mad because they seem to be promoting islam or are you mad because they are promoting a religion period? What is it?

The teaching of Christianity is pretty much barred from public schools in the United States, and to be frank the public schools don't teach much about Judaism either (aside from maybe covering the holocaust).