Jesus abolished the entire Old Testament.

[Elder 111]

One who is free from the condemnation of the law? Is it all mankind as insinuated or is it only the Redeemed (Christians)? Romans 8 suggests it is only the Christian also referred to as righteous else where.

No Jew (Israeli) could have salvation without the removal of the law as well. This is what being redeemed means. One is both redeemed from the law and sin.

One is redeemed by the removal of the law?

 

[Steve Petersen]

Misery loves company, they themselves don't want to be under the Law alone

How easily you dismiss the words of Jesus in Revelation.

 

[BobRyan]

One who is free from the condemnation of the law? Is it all mankind as insinuated or is it only the Redeemed (Christians)? Romans 8 suggests it is only the Christian also referred to as righteous else where.

No Jew (Israeli) could have salvation without the removal of the law as well. This is what being redeemed means. One is both redeemed from the law and sin.

Romans 8:4-8 says that Christians fulfill the law -- and the lost are at war with God and His Law.

Interesting contrast that Paul gives in those verses.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[listed]

One is redeemed by the removal of the law?

Please explain how this removal of the law is done. If one is redeemed by removal of the law, how are they subject to it?

 

[listed]

Romans 8:4-8 says that Christians fulfill the law -- and the lost are at war with God and His Law.

Interesting contrast that Paul gives in those verses.

in Christ,

Bob

Beg your pardon. Paul is talking about Christians and their behavior in Romans 8. Romans is especially dear to my heart.

 

[Elder 111]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

One is redeemed by the removal of the law?
​

Please explain how this removal of the law is done. If one is redeemed by removal of the law, how are they subject to it?

You would notice that I asked a question.

 

[listed]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

One is redeemed by the removal of the law?
​

You would notice that I asked a question.

I guess you did. Sorry about getting excited. Your question is a statement with a question mark. I would say yes to your question. Does righteousness come by the law? Is righteousness required by God for eternal life (salvation)? Does one have righteousness while violating the law?

 

[Sophrosyne]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

One is redeemed by the removal of the law?
​

You would notice that I asked a question.

If the Law is your standard for sin, and righteousness is akin to sinlessness then one must replace/remove the standard of sin if it makes no way to obtain righteousness. The simple fact is that the Law is an insurmountable obstacle to righteousness because nobody can keep it. If the Law is removed as such a standard and replaced by faith (in Jesus) then righteousness is obtainable. When you replace faith in Jesus with the Law then righteousness is of your own doing via the Law and faith in Jesus has no effect.

 

[listed]

If the Law is your standard for sin, and righteousness is akin to sinlessness then one must replace/remove the standard of sin if it makes no way to obtain righteousness. The simple fact is that the Law is an insurmountable obstacle to righteousness because nobody can keep it. If the Law is removed as such a standard and replaced by faith (in Jesus) then righteousness is obtainable. When you replace faith in Jesus with the Law then righteousness is of your own doing via the Law and faith in Jesus has no effect.

Well written.

 

[Elder 111]

I guess you did. Sorry about getting excited. Your question is a statement with a question mark. I would say yes to your question. Does righteousness come by the law? Is righteousness required by God for eternal life (salvation)? Does one have righteousness while violating the law?

If what you say is true, then why do I need the blood of Jesus? Which is it, that Jesus died to remove the law or to cover my sins which is the breaking of the law?

 

[VictorC]

You would notice that I asked a question.

How does it feel? You don't answer questions, and then get upset when others actually treat you the way you treat others.

 

[Elder 111]

If the Law is your standard for sin, and righteousness is akin to sinlessness then one must replace/remove the standard of sin if it makes no way to obtain righteousness. The simple fact is that the Law is an insurmountable obstacle to righteousness because nobody can keep it. If the Law is removed as such a standard and replaced by faith (in Jesus) then righteousness is obtainable. When you replace faith in Jesus with the Law then righteousness is of your own doing via the Law and faith in Jesus has no effect.

Does not faith gives me the means to reply on Jesus to live a righteous life as He did? If so indeed I will keep the law for He did, or when I stumble His blood will cover my confessed sins! 1John 3:
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


1John 1:
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
It hurts me to see ideas like those posted in your reply that goes direct against scripture being promoted by Christians.

 

[VictorC]

Does not faith gives me the means to reply on Jesus to live a righteous life as He did? If so indeed I will keep the law

Error line 1.
You don't keep the Law.
You were never given the Law to begin with, since you're a Gentile estranged from God during the tenure of the Mosaic covenant. Don't you remember where we began this conversation?

Let's focus on your relationship with the Mosaic covenant as a Gentile in Barbados: You never had this covenant from Mount Sinai. Ephesians 2 describes your relationship this way:

11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.​

You simply cannot ignore the transition between 'at that time' and 'but now'. The time element showing the end of the Law's tenure is the transition from the old covenant you never had and the new covenant in the Blood of Christ. During the former covenant's tenure the Blood of Christ wasn't available to you. Or anyone, for that matter.

Hebrews 9
13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.​

Jesus doesn't mediate the covenant from Mount Sinai that was mediated through Moses. That was the 'first covenant' He took away according to Hebrews 10:9.

You never did respond to the content of this post, which illustrates the relationship the Gentiles (didn't) have with the Law.

 

[ananda]

Believing Gentiles were with native Israelites at Mt Sinai, and Moses delivered the Law to all of them.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Believing Gentiles were with native Israelites at Mt Sinai, and Moses delivered the Law to all of them.

Out of curiosity, do you observe the laws concering the sabbatical year and the year of Jubilee?

 

[ananda]

Out of curiosity, do you observe the laws concering the sabbatical year and the year of Jubilee?

Most of it does not apply to me: I'm not a farmer, nor do I hold debt or owe debt or slaves.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Most of it does not apply to me: I'm not a farmer, nor do I hold debt or owe debt or slaves.

Nor do you live in the Land of Israel, to which this applied.

 

[Elder 111]

Error line 1.
You don't keep the Law.
You were never given the Law to begin with, since you're a Gentile estranged from God during the tenure of the Mosaic covenant. Don't you remember where we began this conversation?

You never did respond to the content of this post, which illustrates the relationship the Gentiles (didn't) have with the Law.

The differences between the covenants have nothing to do with the removal of the law.
Change in covenant stated. Heb 9:
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
The New Covenant was with Israel Heb 8:
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Reason:
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
What about the law? 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Conclusions:

1. We are part of Israel or we are still excluded.
2. The law is not abolished just move from stone to heart.
3. The "Mosaic law" (ten Commandments) is either for me in Barbados or as a Gentle I still have no hope.

 

[VictorC]

The differences between the covenants have nothing to do with the removal of the law. <Etc. Etc. snipped for brevity>

Non sequitur, having no relation to the post waiting for your response. Please don't deflect the conversation with mythology.
Scripture describes you as someone who never had the covenant from Mount Sinai nor the Sabbath codified in it.
This remains uncontested.

 

[listed]

Believing Gentiles were with native Israelites at Mt Sinai, and Moses delivered the Law to all of them.

Just not what my Bible says.