Jesus abolished the entire Old Testament.

[Elder 111]

I have just discovered that Jesus abolished the entire Old Testament, not just the law. Do anyone disagree, if so why?

 

[Cribstyl]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

I have just discovered that Jesus abolished the entire Old Testament, not just the law. Do anyone disagree, if so why?
​

This smells like a stunt to undermined what the scriptures say is abolished.
Eph 2:13
But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14
¶For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Eph 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yhvh says otherwise.

Oh, you might have 'discovered' it, like 'evolution' , and like 'evolution', it's a lie.

I have just discovered that Jesus abolished the entire Old Testament, not just the law. Do anyone disagree, if so why?

 

[Elder 111]

What do you consider as "commandments contained in ordinances"? Are the ten commandments such?

 

[Elder 111]

This smells like a stunt to undermined what the scriptures say is abolished.
Eph 2:13
But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14
¶For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Eph 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

What do you consider as "commandments contained in ordinances"? Are the ten commandments such?

 

[Elder 111]

This smells like a stunt to undermined what the scriptures say is abolished.
Eph 2:13
But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14
¶For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Eph 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

What do you consider as "commandments contained in ordinances"? Are the ten commandments such?

 

[Elder 111]

Taking the position held by most Christians that fulfill in Mathew 5 17-18 means abolished then in Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
So Jesus fulfilled or abolished all that the prophets said.

 

[Honest Al]

I have just discovered that Jesus abolished the entire Old Testament, not just the law. Do anyone disagree, if so why?

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them." {Matthew 5:17}
"The Law" being the first five books of the Bible--the writings of Moses, and the rest being "the Prophets."
And to say that Jesus went on in that passage to say that He was going to abolish them by His death makes Him the author of confusion.

"All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us..." {2 Timothy 3:16}
(There's not a translation on earth that says, "Only New Testament Scripture is inspired by God...")

 

[Honest Al]

What do you consider as "commandments contained in ordinances"? Are the ten commandments such?

That's the King James your quoting there.
In the King James the word "ordinance," in its singular and plural forms combined, is used in the Bible a total of fifty-four times. In those other fifty-three passages in which the word ordinance(s) is used, would you like to guess how many times it's used in reference to the any of the Ten Commandments? That's right, not one single time! So, if not once in fifty-three uses is the word ordinance used in reference to any of the Ten Commandments, what's the likelihood it being used in reference to any of them in the passage you refer to? (It doesn't seem very likely does it?)

Take care

 

[CryOfALion]

I have just discovered that Jesus abolished the entire Old Testament, not just the law. Do anyone disagree, if so why?

He certainly didn't abolish any law at all, and didn't invalidate them.

As far as abolishing the old covenant/agreement God made with Abraham, Christ had authority to give a new agreement/covenant for man and God, even though God already said He would do it.


Like all legal agreements, God's covenant states what He will do for a party IF the party does something in return. At the most basic level, it is quid pro quo. The old covenant with Abraham stated that IF Abram walked blameless/righteously before God, God would multiply him into an exceedingly great nation, a father of kings and nations. The token of their agreement - the dotted line - was circumcision. God also changed Abram's name to Abraham, as his title was different. And, Abraham's descendants were to all get the token of the agreement made between God and Abraham. That agreement is still in effect. And, you will notice that this covenant included what would later be called Israel, but included Hebrews from Abraham - genetic Hebrews.

Christ came with another agreement: the new agreement. In Jeremiah 31, God tells us He will give us another agreement for Israel and Judah, that He will be our God, and we wii
ll be His people. That, we would all know Him, and longer would there be a need to tell a neighbor to know Him. That, He would forgive our iniquity, and remember our sin no more. Daniel said that in the last "week," or seven years of that 70 weeks, Christ will make a covenant with many people. This was the time from when Christ was annointed by God's holy spirit to the time He was crucified and resurrected. The new agreement stated that God would write the Law on our hearts, and we will learn to therefore delight in walking upright before God according to His law. The dotted line was the blood of Christ, and our circumcision of heart and faith in Christ and His resurrection. This agreement was for EVERYONE, as opposed to just genetic Hebrews from Abraham. On the other hand, only Israel is the party to benefit from these agreements. So, in terms of the "do we have to follow Law" question, it is important to know what being an Hebrew or Israelite means to God. And, it isn't just about being from Abraham or Jacob (remember, God divorced Israel the people once before.)

 

[Honest Al]

Elder 111 you mention the word "fulfilled" quite a bit in your last post. Here's a little something to think about:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." {Matthew 5:17, 18}

Many Christians say that "all was fulfilled" when Jesus died on the cross. Besides making His message in the rest of the passage of none effect and making Him the author of confusion and double-talk, it simply isn't true that Christ's death on the cross "fulfilled all."

"Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." {Luke 21:24}
(I don't think I've ever met a Christian who believed that "the times of the Gentiles were fulfilled" at Christ's death on the cross.)

"And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues... no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled." {Revelation 15:6-8}
(I'm pretty certain I've never met a Christian who believed that "the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled" at Christ's death on the cross.)

Take care

P.S.--Christ's words one more time: "Verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

 

[Steeno7]

I have just discovered that Jesus abolished the entire Old Testament, not just the law. Do anyone disagree, if so why?

Wait, let me check...................



Nope. It's still right there in the front part of my Bible just before the New Testament.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Wait, let me check...................
Nope. It's still right there in the front part of my Bible just before the New Testament.

check, test, prove YES

(i like that!)

and don't forget to read it too - so much is never understood if the Old Testament is not read and meditated on along with the New Testament, and if Yhvh doesn't grant the understanding.

 

[Honest Al]

and don't forget to read it too - so much is never understood if the Old Testament is not read and meditated on along with the New Testament.

 

[Steeno7]

check, test, prove YES

(i like that!)

and don't forget to read it too - so much is never understood if the Old Testament is not read and meditated on along with the New Testament, and if Yhvh doesn't grant the understanding.

Oh, I do. And now that I have the New Testament to properly interpret it, it actually makes sense.

 

[Honest Al]

He certainly didn't abolish any law at all, and didn't invalidate them... As far as abolishing the old covenant/agreement God made with Abraham, Christ had authority to give a new agreement/covenant for man and God... Christ came with another agreement: the new agreement. In Jeremiah 31... The new agreement stated that God would write the Law on our hearts, and we will learn to therefore delight in walking upright before God according to His law.

"Then his father, Zachariah, was filled with the Holy Spirit and gave this prophecy: ...He has sent us a mighty Savior...just as he promised through his holy prophets long ago... He has remembered his holy covenant, the covenant he gave to our ancestor Abraham: to rescue us from the hand of our enemies, and to enable us to serve to serve him without fear, in holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our lives." {Luke 1:67-75}

And how was it that God was going to "enable us to serve him in holiness and righteousness all the days of our lives?" By writing the new covenant on our hearts and minds:

"This is the new covenant I will make with my people on that day, says the Lord: I will put my laws in their hearts to they will understand them, and I will write them on their minds so they will obey them." {Hebrews 10:16} (Quoted from Jeremiah 31)

One more thing:

"Your law is more valuable to me than millions in gold and silver... Oh, how I love your law! I think about it all day long... Oh LORD, I have longed for your salvation, and your law is my delight." {David in Psalms 119}

"God said, 'David is a man after my own heart." {God in Acts 13}

(What Christian wouldn't long to have God say that about them.)

 

[CryOfALion]

"Then his father, Zachariah, was filled with the Holy Spirit and gave this prophecy: ...He has sent us a mighty Savior...just as he promised through his holy prophets long ago... He has remembered his holy covenant, the covenant he gave to our ancestor Abraham: to rescue us from the hand of our enemies, and to enable us to serve to serve him without fear, in holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our lives." {Luke 1:67-75}

And how was it that God was going to "enable us to serve him in holiness and righteousness all the days of our lives?" By writing the new covenant on our hearts and minds:

"This is the new covenant I will make with my people on that day, says the Lord: I will put my laws in their hearts to they will understand them, and I will write them on their minds so they will obey them." {Hebrews 10:16} (Quoted from Jeremiah 31)

One more thing:

"Your law is more valuable to me than millions in gold and silver... Oh, how I love your law! I think about it all day long... Oh LORD, I have longed for your salvation, and your law is my delight." {David in Psalms 119}

"God said, 'David is a man after my own heart." {God in Acts 13}

(What Christian would not long to have God say that about them.)

I LOVE the Psalms. Whenever I am serious spiritual problems or frustrations, I read the psalms. David wasn't a squeeky clean dude... he had some issues with God at points, problems with fear, guilt, faith, sin, death, depression, anxiety, and so on. So, he was a regular man of God - flawed and vulnerable. Yet, he actually longed to please God, and God recognized this as a man after His own heart.

So, in essence any of us can be that. David isn't any more (or less) broken than the average believer. I would love to hear that from God. Understanding and honoring the covenant(s) allows us to make the first step toward being a person after God's heart.

 

[listed]

Elder 111 you mention the word "fulfilled" quite a bit in your last post. Here's a little something to think about:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." {Matthew 5:17, 18}

Many Christians say that "all was fulfilled" when Jesus died on the cross. Besides making His message in the rest of the passage of none effect, and making Him the author of confusion and double-talk, it simply isn't true that Christ's death on the cross "fulfilled all."

"When ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies... and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." {Luke 21:20-24}
(I don't think I've ever met a Christian who believed that "the times of the Gentiles were fulfilled" at Christ's death on the cross.)

"And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues... no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled." {Revelation 15:6-8}
(I'm pretty certain I've never met a Christian who believed that "the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled" at Christ's death on the cross.)

Take care

P.S.--Christ's words one more time: "Verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Jesus is not talking about all prophecy in Mat 5. People that promote such are trying to support a false doctrine contrary to much of Scripture even the Gospels.

 

[listed]

check, test, prove YES

(i like that!)

and don't forget to read it too - so much is never understood if the Old Testament is not read and meditated on along with the New Testament, and if Yhvh doesn't grant the understanding.

Who are people listening to these days? Personally when reading here and even participating locally I can not say it is God.

 

[Angelquill]

The whole OT, now?
What, He wasnt' satisfied with a few bits here and there that folks didn't like? What the heck, just trash the whole thing....there...now, maybe they'll be happy...

Uh...

Except....

It doesnt' work that way.