Your problem with Islam.

[ALoveDivine]

My main problem with Islam is that it denies the cross of Jesus Christ. It leaves people working for their own salvation, which is absolutely impossible to achieve. The whole religion denies the only way to salvation, the grace and mercy of God in the finished atoning work of Jesus Christ received by faith alone. That's my main problem, it is leading over a billion people to eternal Hell.

My other problem has to do with the socio-political orientation of Islam. Christianity is a personal faith having to do with personal repentance and personal transformation, involving a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, in fellowship with others who share in that relationship. We don't seek to take power or make over the world in the image of the church.

Islam on the other hand is a faith that seeks to impose itself on civilization and institute itself into law. The whole idea of Sharia law is anathema to me. The problem is that Islam is a fundamentally social and political faith that must, to be consistent with itself, seek political rule. That is a recipe for war, bloodshed, disaster, oppression, and devastation.

I'm not saying that all Muslims are terrorists or more evil than anyone else, but I do believe the Koran is the word of Satan and "Allah" is an idol. Islam is sending a billion people out on the broad way to Hell. My other problem is that the past two sentences would get me killed in a Muslim country....

 

[Zoness]

My main problem with Islam is that it denies the cross of Jesus Christ. It leaves people working for their own salvation, which is absolutely impossible to achieve. The whole religion denies the only way to salvation, the grace and mercy of God in the finished atoning work of Jesus Christ received by faith alone. That's my main problem, it is leading over a billion people to eternal Hell.

My other problem has to do with the socio-political orientation of Islam. Christianity is a personal faith having to do with personal repentance and personal transformation, involving a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, in fellowship with others who share in that relationship. We don't seek to take power or make over the world in the image of the church.

Islam on the other hand is a faith that seeks to impose itself on civilization and institute itself into law. The whole idea of Sharia law is anathema to me. The problem is that Islam is a fundamentally social and political faith that must, to be consistent with itself, seek political rule. That is a recipe for war, bloodshed, disaster, oppression, and devastation.

I'm not saying that all Muslims are terrorists or more evil than anyone else, but I do believe the Koran is the word of Satan and "Allah" is an idol. Islam is sending a billion people out on the broad way to Hell. My other problem is that the past two sentences would get me killed in a Muslim country....

While I agree with your socio-political position on the matter, how is the sentence I bolded different than what Christians want to do in the US?

 

[ALoveDivine]

While I agree with your socio-political position on the matter, how is the sentence I bolded different than what Christians want to do in the US?

I dont want to do anything in the US except make the federal government abide by the constitution...

 

[gord44]

My main problem with Islam is that it denies the cross of Jesus Christ. It leaves people working for their own salvation, which is absolutely impossible to achieve. The whole religion denies the only way to salvation, the grace and mercy of God in the finished atoning work of Jesus Christ received by faith alone. That's my main problem, it is leading over a billion people to eternal Hell.

No worries there. When Jesus, peace be upon him, returns he will proclaim the truth of Islam so the record will be set straight.

My other problem has to do with the socio-political orientation of Islam. Christianity is a personal faith having to do with personal repentance and personal transformation, involving a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, in fellowship with others who share in that relationship. We don't seek to take power or make over the world in the image of the church.

Islam on the other hand is a faith that seeks to impose itself on civilization and institute itself into law. The whole idea of Sharia law is anathema to me. The problem is that Islam is a fundamentally social and political faith that must, to be consistent with itself, seek political rule. That is a recipe for war, bloodshed, disaster, oppression, and devastation.

You should study Islam to see the truth. You will see many of your misconceptions will be cleared up.

I'm not saying that all Muslims are terrorists or more evil than anyone else, but I do believe the Koran is the word of Satan and "Allah" is an idol. Islam is sending a billion people out on the broad way to Hell.

I do hope you renounce your stance on Islam before the Day of Judgement so you can avoid hell. But Allah is all forgiving and all merciful, so he will forgive you.

My other problem is that the past two sentences would get me killed in a Muslim country....

Probably not. Christians have lived along side Muslims in many predominately Muslim countries for years. Sure there is the news that glorifies the violence, and there is countries were there is sad situations with militants attacking Christians (like in Iraq currently), but that is not the norm or there would be no Christians in those countries at all.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by ALoveDivine

My main problem with Islam is that it denies the cross of Jesus Christ. It leaves people working for their own salvation, which is absolutely impossible to achieve. The whole religion denies the only way to salvation, the grace and mercy of God in the finished atoning work of Jesus Christ received by faith alone. That's my main problem, it is leading over a billion people to eternal Hell.
​

No worries there. When Jesus returns he will proclaim the truth of Islam so the record will be set straight. ................

Islam will spread throughout the entire world, but not by the sword, but through peace inshallah!

Glad to see Islam believes in the 2nd coming of Jesus

http://www.christianforums.com/t2963539-4/
Christians become Muslims at Christ's return

A muslim responded to a post I put up concerning the "second coming" of Christ at the Time of the End in Daniel 12. If I am reading this correctly, he says all mankind will be "muslims" and follow Jesus after that event.
My question is, do those In Christ today not follow the Words of the Christ He spoke in the NT?

If we become "muslims" will we have to follow muhammad and the Koran also? Thoughts?
.

.

 

[gord44]

Glad to see Islam believes in the 2nd coming of Jesus

Indeed friend.

 

[Zoness]

I dont want to do anything in the US except make the federal government abide by the constitution...

I believe you but that doesn't seem to be the position of politically-aligned Christians who want to legislate morality and they still make up the majority.

I mean of course if you have a religion, you want to influence people to do your religious beliefs and rules as much as possible so I usually find it interesting with American news stations talk about Islam's growing legal influence as if Christianity doesn't do the same thing. It's just an observation.

 

[Rationalt]

For those that have a problem with Islam and Muslims. Is it the first world, third world or entire scene of islam/muslims that you object to?

I object to theology of Islam which promotes hatred and subjugation of non-muslims .Not much to do with region.

 

[Senator Cheese]

I believe you but that doesn't seem to be the position of politically-aligned Christians who want to legislate morality and they still make up the majority.

I mean of course if you have a religion, you want to influence people to do your religious beliefs and rules as much as possible so I usually find it interesting with American news stations talk about Islam's growing legal influence as if Christianity doesn't do the same thing. It's just an observation.

You may be right in the sense that some Christians are actively seeking to change legislation to suit their own ideals - then again, I guess it's normal for anyone (atheist, Buddhist, Christian or Jewish) to want to change domestic policy slightly to form a society that is more comfortable for the respective individual. I do see differences in the extent of which this is done - and I have yet to see evidence of Christians actively imposing oppressive legislation in the United States or Europe (I can't speak for elsewhere).

Didn't Paul even advocate staying out of governance altogether?

-------------------------------

Failure to self-reflect
As for Islam, I have several problems - many too much for me to formulate. I'll admit that my knowledge on the subject is limited, but I have encountered stereotypical behavior in all Muslims I know, and this has drastically changed my perception of the ideology for the negative.

For example, the omnipresent attempt to attribute all negative things to "outside forces" and the constant belief that an omnipotent Western conspiracy is responsible for all the bad that is happening in the Islamic World. From ISIS to Hamas - violent groups are either the "legitimate freedom fighters" that "have no other choice but to blow themselves up in crowded civil places" or they are "created and funded by the Jews, Israel or the United States".

Mohammad's terror and perversion
The fact that Mohammad's pedophile tendencies (he had a nine-year-old wife) and thirst for blood and death completely discredit him from being anything remotely Godly is another part.
The same goes for the fact that he genocidally executed huge numbers of unbelievers. Muslim apologetics say "well, they betrayed him" - as if that makes it right. Killing unarmed individuals is wrong and not forgiving. Also part of the reason why I don't understand how Christians can be proponents of the death penalty, but that's beyond the point.

Also the fact that Mohammad changed sides from advocating peace with "people of the book" to calling for their terror (Medinan vs Mekkan suras) once the established society didn't accept his authority also goes to shows a lack of divinity.



Condoning Terrorism and Violence
I'm appalled to see thousands of Muslims rush to the street to chant "death to the jews!" in light of the Israeli conflict - and yet not even one single condemnation of Hamas' indiscriminate rocket fire. Protest against ISIS? Against terrorism? Nope - here, the best we can hope for is some three-sentence declaration of distancing.

Demanding special treatment
We have a lot of immigrants in our city, and all seem to be getting along fine. We have Hindus, Jews, Atheists and Christians and a secular state system. Pork is served in school cafeterias and Jews will bring their own food unobjectingly - but the Muslims always make a huge deal out of it and demand that the state also cater to their needs.

In CPR classes, Muslim girls (completely veiled) refused to join in the practice of CPR because, according to them, this was "sexually explicit". When the instructor refused to pass them, saying that practical exercises are part of the course, they said that this was against their religion and that they couldn't be forced to do it.

Swim classes in Germany were boycotted by Muslim girls who refused to bathe with "unbelievers" because of the "sexually explicit" bathing suits worn by those who don't follow their religion. When the German high court decided that wearing a "burkini" was sufficient enough to partake in the PE-class, they still boycotted the classes.

Not to mention the "Shariah Police" that the British had to deal with and now has made its way to Germany..

Islam is no religion, but a political ideology
A religion that advocates a political system that encompasses and manages all affairs of daily life can hardly be considered a religion. The Nazis also had some occult beliefs, but that hardly makes Nazism a religion.
As such, I fail to see how this ideology can enjoy the rights and privileges held up for exercising one's religion while its texts openly advocate a backwards, twisted ideology that teaches hatred and exclusivity.

Islam is an oppressive sect
One of the key features of what can be considered a "sect" is the fact that joining is voluntary but irreversible. The fact that Islam advocates the killing of converts from their religion is just plain off disgusting.
Then again, it seems that Mohammad murdering whoever stood in his way in the name of Islam seems to have a tradition in the Middle East.

Wherever Islam sets its roots, there is war
From Southeast Asia, to North Africa, to Russia, China, Israel, India and Europe - all the regions that border predominately Muslim countries are war-torn. Sure, we can brush that off as coincidence, or we can try to find the common denuminator.

Now these problems are just off the top of my head.

 

[simplegifts]

You may be right in the sense that some Christians are actively seeking to change legislation to suit their own ideals - then again, I guess it's normal for anyone (atheist, Buddhist, Christian or Jewish) to want to change domestic policy slightly to form a society that is more comfortable for the respective individual. I do see differences in the extent of which this is done - and I have yet to see evidence of Christians actively imposing oppressive legislation in the United States or Europe (I can't speak for elsewhere).

Didn't Paul even advocate staying out of governance altogether?

-------------------------------

Failure to self-reflect
As for Islam, I have several problems - many too much for me to formulate. I'll admit that my knowledge on the subject is limited, but I have encountered stereotypical behavior in all Muslims I know, and this has drastically changed my perception of the ideology for the negative.

For example, the omnipresent attempt to attribute all negative things to "outside forces" and the constant belief that an omnipotent Western conspiracy is responsible for all the bad that is happening in the Islamic World. From ISIS to Hamas - violent groups are either the "legitimate freedom fighters" that "have no other choice but to blow themselves up in crowded civil places" or they are "created and funded by the Jews, Israel or the United States".

Mohammad's terror and perversion
The fact that Mohammad's pedophile tendencies (he had a nine-year-old wife) and thirst for blood and death completely discredit him from being anything remotely Godly is another part.
The same goes for the fact that he genocidally executed huge numbers of unbelievers. Muslim apologetics say "well, they betrayed him" - as if that makes it right. Killing unarmed individuals is wrong and not forgiving. Also part of the reason why I don't understand how Christians can be proponents of the death penalty, but that's beyond the point.

Also the fact that Mohammad changed sides from advocating peace with "people of the book" to calling for their terror (Medinan vs Mekkan suras) once the established society didn't accept his authority also goes to shows a lack of divinity.



Condoning Terrorism and Violence
I'm appalled to see thousands of Muslims rush to the street to chant "death to the jews!" in light of the Israeli conflict - and yet not even one single condemnation of Hamas' indiscriminate rocket fire. Protest against ISIS? Against terrorism? Nope - here, the best we can hope for is some three-sentence declaration of distancing.

Demanding special treatment
We have a lot of immigrants in our city, and all seem to be getting along fine. We have Hindus, Jews, Atheists and Christians and a secular state system. Pork is served in school cafeterias and Jews will bring their own food unobjectingly - but the Muslims always make a huge deal out of it and demand that the state also cater to their needs.

In CPR classes, Muslim girls (completely veiled) refused to join in the practice of CPR because, according to them, this was "sexually explicit". When the instructor refused to pass them, saying that practical exercises are part of the course, they said that this was against their religion and that they couldn't be forced to do it.

Swim classes in Germany were boycotted by Muslim girls who refused to bathe with "unbelievers" because of the "sexually explicit" bathing suits worn by those who don't follow their religion. When the German high court decided that wearing a "burkini" was sufficient enough to partake in the PE-class, they still boycotted the classes.

Not to mention the "Shariah Police" that the British had to deal with and now has made its way to Germany..

Islam is no religion, but a political ideology
A religion that advocates a political system that encompasses and manages all affairs of daily life can hardly be considered a religion. The Nazis also had some occult beliefs, but that hardly makes Nazism a religion.
As such, I fail to see how this ideology can enjoy the rights and privileges held up for exercising one's religion while its texts openly advocate a backwards, twisted ideology that teaches hatred and exclusivity.

Islam is an oppressive sect
One of the key features of what can be considered a "sect" is the fact that joining is voluntary but irreversible. The fact that Islam advocates the killing of converts from their religion is just plain off disgusting.
Then again, it seems that Mohammad murdering whoever stood in his way in the name of Islam seems to have a tradition in the Middle East.

Wherever Islam sets its roots, there is war
From Southeast Asia, to North Africa, to Russia, China, Israel, India and Europe - all the regions that border predominately Muslim countries are war-torn. Sure, we can brush that off as coincidence, or we can try to find the common denuminator.

Now these problems are just off the top of my head.

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

The Australian National Imams Council (ANIC), as stated previously, believes that one of the main causative factor for local radicalisation in the west has been the western governments’ military involvement in the Middle East. The support of unjust, dictatorial regimes as well as unilateral military aggression based on duplicitous foreign policy positions has only aggravated the state of global fear and violence.

If the Australian government is serious about reducing the terror threat locally, then it must review its foreign policy decisions with regard to this region. It is on this basis that His Eminence, Professor Ibrahim Abu Mohamed, Grand Mufti of Australia and ANIC, opposes the government’s current decision to transport and provide weapons to the Kurdish forces in Iraq.

The decision by the government, given the complexities present in Iraq, is confounded by the ... likelihood of mission creep given the government has already foreshadowed the possibility of deploying SAS soldiers and fighter jets…

The Government will be imputed for further radicalization locally if it continues military intervention in the middle East.

If this is the case, why is every Christian not attacking Muslims in retaliation of Muslim attacks on Christians? WHY!!??!! Jesus taught otherwise.

 

[dcalling]

If this is the case, why is every Christian not attacking Muslims in retaliation of Muslim attacks on Christians? WHY!!??!! Jesus taught otherwise.

Amen Brother!

John 11:26 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"

The early Christians believed and never seeks revenge against those who prosecuted them, and yet the prevailed. One of the big prosecutors, Paul, even became a apostle.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

The Australian National Imams Council (ANIC), as stated previously, believes that one of the main causative factor for local radicalisation in the west has been the western governments’ military involvement in the Middle East. The support of unjust, dictatorial regimes as well as unilateral military aggression based on duplicitous foreign policy positions has only aggravated the state of global fear and violence.

If the Australian government is serious about reducing the terror threat locally, then it must review its foreign policy decisions with regard to this region. It is on this basis that His Eminence, Professor Ibrahim Abu Mohamed, Grand Mufti of Australia and ANIC, opposes the government’s current decision to transport and provide weapons to the Kurdish forces in Iraq.

The decision by the government, given the complexities present in Iraq, is confounded by the ... likelihood of mission creep given the government has already foreshadowed the possibility of deploying SAS soldiers and fighter jets…

The Government will be imputed for further radicalization locally if it continues military intervention in the middle East.

If this is the case, why is every Christian not attacking Muslims in retaliation of Muslim attacks on Christians? WHY!!??!! Jesus taught otherwise.

For the very same reasons not every Muslim is attacking Muslims. We also follow the teachings of Jesus(as) as he is one of the most loved Prophets.

We just do not believe he ever taught he was part of the Trinity, or that he died on the Cross.

 

[Senator Cheese]

For the very same reasons not every Muslim is attacking Muslims. We also follow the teachings of Jesus(as) as he is one of the most loved Prophets.

We just do not believe he ever taught he was part of the Trinity, or that he died on the Cross.

Woodrow, you and the other Muslims I have met on CF are of the few Muslims I know. I also want you to know that I do not intend to insult you as a person, but the OP asked what my problem with your religion is and I answered accordingly.

At least on one point I am being taught a lesson right now: moments ago, I heard that the major three Muslim organizations in Germany are organizing several rallies against extremism and Islamic State terrorism. I fully commend that.

 

[seashale76]

I object to theology of Islam which promotes hatred and subjugation of non-muslims.

^This. And to add- I also object to those particular groups that are into killing, suicide bombing, terrorism, and sharia law. Those groups all claim they are following their religion (and before anyone brings it up I do realize most Muslims in the world obviously don't agree with them or they'd be doing it too). Also- my other problem with Islam is the same problem I have with any other religion that I don't follow (which would be all of them except Christianity): I don't believe the religion to be true. If I did I'd be Muslim, now wouldn't I?

 

[WoodrowX2]

Woodrow, you and the other Muslims I have met on CF are of the few Muslims I know. I also want you to know that I do not intend to insult you as a person, but the OP asked what my problem with your religion is and I answered accordingly.

At least on one point I am being taught a lesson right now: moments ago, I heard that the major three Muslim organizations in Germany are organizing several rallies against extremism and Islamic State terrorism. I fully commend that.

No problem my Friend,

I have no issues with people for disagreeing with or disliking Islam. Far better we air our disagreements than let them fester and grow.

to open the doors of communication is a good path to understanding.

 

[WoodrowX2]

^This. And to add- I also object to those particular groups that are into killing, suicide bombing, terrorism, and sharia law. Those groups all claim they are following their religion (and before anyone brings it up I do realize most Muslims in the world obviously don't agree with them or they'd be doing it too). Also- my other problem with Islam is the same problem I have with any other religion that I don't follow (which would be all of them except Christianity): I don't believe the religion to be true. If I did I'd be Muslim, now wouldn't I?

I think if you were aware of what Sharia laws really is, you would have little disagreement with it.

It is not what the media labels as Sharia. It is a very complex legal system based upon numerous factors that include, but are not limited to Religious teaching, Opinion of those trained in Islamic Jurisprudence, National Culture, Choice of the populace and deductive reasoning.

There are 4 distinct disciplines of it. Maliki, Shafi, Hambali and Hanafi. Hanafi is the most lenient, for all practical purposes it does not have the death penalty for any crime. No one has ever been executed in a Hanafi court. It is very much based upon the will of the people and stresses equality. I find it to be very similar to the US legal system

The strictest is the Hambali, it stresses the use of the maximum punishment permitted and is not very flexible. It is only followed in Saudi and Qatar. Iran is under Jafa'ari Law and is not Sharia although usually called such.

An actual Sharia court is very similar to a Western court complete with elected Judges, Jurists, Prosecuting and Defense attorneys.

Currently. in the Islamic Nations, with the exception of Saudi and Iran, Criminal laws are under secular laws and only the civil laws are sharia,

 

[simplegifts]

For the very same reasons not every Muslim is attacking Muslims. We also follow the teachings of Jesus(as) as he is one of the most loved Prophets.

We just do not believe he ever taught he was part of the Trinity, or that he died on the Cross.

BUT Mohammad is your perfect example.

Islamic centre blasts ?traitorous? leaks
Islamic centre blasts ?traitorous? leaks
September 8, 2014 12:00AM
AN ISLAMIC centre south of Brisbane has condemned the “traitorous actions” of an insider who exposed its ties to firebrand Perth preacher Mohammed Junaid Thorne.

Boston bombers’ mosque tied to ISIS | New York Post
When it was revealed that the Boston Marathon bombers attended a Cambridge, Mass., mosque, its leaders were quick to disavow their actions.
Elder brother Tamerlan Tsarnaev’s ideology was not their own, the leaders of the Islamic Society mosque claimed. In fact, he was admonished for an extremist outburst he made during one sermon.
So, one crackpot in a congregation. Who can blame the mosque?
But what about eight — including a prominent member of ISIS?

 

[WoodrowX2]

BUT Mohammad is your perfect example.

All the Prophets are equal and to be followed.

Muhammad(saws) is the one we know the most about. But that does not mean we are blank about Jesus(as) What we do know of him is also to be followed.

 

[Rationalt]

All the Prophets are equal and to be followed.

Muhammad(saws) is the one we know the most about. But that does not mean we are blank about Jesus(as) What we do know of him is also to be followed.

Lol, kaafirs are happy eating up lot of such talk.I bet you are aware that The quran says follow muhammad and nobody else.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Lol, kaafirs are happy eating up lot of such talk.I bet you are aware that The quran says follow muhammad and nobody else.

Like here:

(The Noble Qur'an, 5:48) “To thee (Muhammad) We sent the scripture (Qur'an) in truth confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety.”

(The Noble Qur'an, 10:94) “If thou (Muhammad) are in doubt as to what We have revealed, then ask the People of the Book.”

Although if what is said contradicts the Qur'an the Qur'an takes preference. But we do not say the previous Prophets are not to be followed.