What if we have ALL been 'duped'?

[he-man]

For I am well aware of the Devil and have intimate knowledge of many of his wiles.Otherwise, how do you explain that some KILL and others DON'T? Blessings, MEC

Again, you must be jesting. I guess you can kill if you want to but those who know Christ believe God said, Exo 23:7 Keep far from a false charge, and do not kill the innocent and righteous, for I will not acquit the wicked.

Jas 1:14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Jas 1:15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers.

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[Norah63]

Just because the devil does not have a body like us doesnt mean he isnt real.
Any body that will do his bidding will pay the price, while he laughs and calls them fool.

 

[Anto9us]

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know that I am the Lord when I shall lay my vengeance upon you."

 

[Anto9us]

Thou shalt not kill

Is it ratsach or haraq ??

Does it make a difference?

 

[Imagican]

Again, you must be jesting. I guess you can kill if you want to but those who know Christ believe God said, Exo 23:7 Keep far from a false charge, and do not kill the innocent and righteous, for I will not acquit the wicked.

Jas 1:14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Jas 1:15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers.

he man, you CANNOT take this ONE line of scripture and use it to form a COMPLETE doctrine on EVIL. It is NOT the ONLY scripture in the Bible concerning the subject.

Watch how easy it is to dispel what it is your are trying to offer.

Someone embarrasses me. It makes me feel bad towards them. I may even hold a grudge against them for the rest of my life. But NEVER would I consider MURDERING them for their action. But some people DO. Some people DO end up murdering someone for embarrassing them. So what is the difference? WHY does one person react in such a manner and the REST of society DOESN'T.

From your perspective that person that DOES murder, has that LUST in their heart from their OWN accord. How is that POSSIBLE? How does ONE person have the LUST to KILL and another DOESN'T? For if it is merely a matter of what is in our hearts as SINNERS, we should ALL be murderers AT HEART.

The difference is this: each of us is TEMPTED by Satan's demons when we are at our weakest. If you are NOT in a position to defend yourself against his wiles, then you are WEAK all the time.

But the REAL difference is ENTERTAINMENT. Most people, when they are TEMPTED by Satan's demons, RESIST. Remember: resist the Devil and he will FLEE? But SOME, a MINORITY, do NOT resist but ENTERTAIN these foreign thoughts when they enter their hearts and let the DEMONS run FREE. They LET the demons influence them to start making PLANS against those that 'get in their way'.

That is why some people steal and others don't. Those that DON'T resisted the temptation from the BEGINNING and it then becomes something that they aren't even TEMPTED by. But others, upon first being tempted, succumb to the temptation and the MORE they DO NOT RESIST the MORE it becomes IMPOSSIBLE to overcome the temptation. They ENTERTAIN the DEMONS that encourage them and the MORE they DO IT the more POWER the demons have to influence them.

The Bible tells us that some have become SO complacent to their demons that their demons have the power to 'throw them into a fire', or 'throw them into water', or 'make them cut themselves with stones', or 'scare away those that attempt to cast them out'.

I have read TOO many accounts that sound EXACTLY alike to ignore. Those that say that they felt like they were standing OUTSIDE of their bodies WATCHING THEMSELVES shoot other people. And then immediately after they were back in their own bodies wonder what just happened. When asked WHY they did it, their answer is that it was like it wasn't even THEMSELVES doing it.

TOO many accounts that are precisely the SAME to simply write it off as, "they are just NUTS". For I have read too many of the accounts that were offered as honestly as possible.

IF YOU ENTERTAIN DEMONS long enough they can gain even PHYSICAL control over you. That is WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES. A man's son's demons CAST HIM INTO THE FIRE trying to kill him. Cast him into the water trying to drown him. Not MY words, he man, straight out of the Bible. DEMONS, EVIL SPIRITS.

Nothing offered in these words even INDICATED that the child was a victim of HIS OWN HEARTS DESIRE. And I would wager that it started with the child entertaining something SIMPLE like the temptation to steal or lie or simply HATE. Then GREW to the point that the demon, (or DEMONS), gained SO MUCH control over his thought process that they could actually control his PHYSICAL ACTIONS.a

Every serial killer that ever existed ALLOWED themselves to make their FIRST KILL. Where did the INFLUENCE come from? Why did they WANT to KILL? Your explanation offers NO REASON. You simply SAY that it is merely a manifestation of their OWN HEART. I don't believe that for ONE second. Something PUT that desire there. For every one of us at one time or another has hated someone enough to WANT to kill them. But MOST DON'T, (and I certainly don't EXPECT everyone to ADMIT IT).

So your premiss doesn't ADD UP when we take ALL of scripture into account. The Bible SPECIFICALLY speaks of Satan and it SPECIFICALLY speaks of DEMONS: evil spirits. Jesus cast SEVEN demons out of Mary. Why you have chosen to ignore this is beyond my comprehension.

So, the ANGER or any other EMOTION one exhibits may well be from their own HEART. But the MANNER in which they REACT to it is obviously capable of being INFLUENCED by DEMONS. If you ENTERTAIN the influence it places you in a position that is almost impossible to overcome. That is WHY we are told that we are to RESIST the Devil. For if we DON'T, we set ourselves up to be tempted to DO things that are NOT OF OUR OWN HEARTS DESIRES.

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

And if one ACCEPTS these commandments and concentrates on NOT DOING THAT WHICH IS CONTRARY, there is little ROOM for demons to apply their influence. It's when one looses TRACK of the TRUTH that they are led to follow that which is DISOBEDIENCE.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

I don't really like to go off topic, but this seems to be a major burden in this thread. So I want to offer this:

Eve did NOT eat the fruit because of a desire in her OWN heart. That desire was placed there by an entity that KNEW what WAS in her heart. What WAS in her heart was a desire to be EQUAL with Adam. But she had absolutely NO WAY of even ENTERTAINING the idea of fulfillment of her DESIRE UNTIL it was PLACED there by the SERPENT.

So the desire to EAT from the forbidden tree was NOT her OWN idea, it was PLACED there. She was TEMPTED by an OUTSIDE SOURCE.

And it is this way with us ALL. We have ALL been instructed to RESIST the Devil and he will FLEE. But the opposite is JUST AS TRUE: if we DO NOT resist the Devil he will not only NOT FLEE, but end up gaining control over us through his influence.

And the important part of this issue is this: if we REFUSE to even acknowledge the existence of Satan or his demons, we have absolutely NO ability to RESIST that which we do not even acknowledge.

No different than the time BEFORE antibiotics were discovered. Without the KNOWLEDGE of microscopic germs and such, there was NO WAY to combat them. How many MILLIONS of people DIED before men realized that just 'washing their hands' BEFORE touching an open wound would avoid the introduction of infection? And how many MORE could have been saved with the prescribing of a SIMPLE PILL?

But it's IMPOSSIBLE to defend oneself against an UNKNOWN enemy. And it is the SAME with Satan and his demons. If you refuse to acknowledge their very existence, how then are you going to resist that which you refuse to acknowledge even exists?

For we battle NOT against our OWN FLESH so much as:

Ephesians 6:12


For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

These are NOT MY WORDS. They are words of wisdom and instruction offered directly from God through His messengers. RULERS of the DARKNESS OF THIS WORLD.

So, when light is DENIED entrance into one's heart, where does the DARKNESS COME FROM? WHO is the ENEMY that would LEAD us to DARKNESS? I can assure you it is NOT our OWN HEARTS DESIRE. For desire does not manifest itself ON IT'S OWN nor does it even EXIST without some sort of INFLUENCE.

Heck, if you raised a child completely separate from all the forms of negative influence of this world, separated them from EVER seeing DEATH, they would ONLY KNOW LIFE. They wouldn't even KNOW that they could KILL someone. So that just PROVES that the DESIRE to kill someone comes from INFLUENCE. Cain didn't CONCEIVE of murder, he merely FOLLOWED the INFLUENCE. Entertained the DEMON that placed the thought into his MIND. The INFLUENCE came from SOMEWHERE and I can assure you that the image in which we were created did NOT INCLUDE MURDER.

Genesis:

3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.
4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.


So with this in mind, it is CLEAR that sin is the RESULT of NOT DOING WELL. It is what WAITS for those that DO NOT DO WELL. Sin's DESIRE is to US. To influence US. But it is OUR duty to RESIST it's DESIRE. We are to RULE OVER sin, not LET IT have an INFLUENCE ON OURSELVES.


So it becomes pretty clear that sin is NOT a 'part of us' as many seem so intent upon insisting. Sin is something OUTSIDE of us that we ALLOW IN. It's DESIRE is to RULE OVER US. But our DUTY is to rule over IT instead. We are born into 'a world that SIN RULES'. But we are not BORN into SIN as being BOUND by SIN. That is OUR CHOICE. And since the flesh is SO WEAK, we are ALL bound to fall to it's temptation, UNLESS we RESIST. The problem lies in the lack of maturity of Spirit to overcome the FLESH. We are like CHILDREN given the choice to DO what we WANT instead of what is BEST. And as ALL children WILL DO, they will choose to follow other influences and desires rather than what is BEST.


What does a DOOR DO? It separates ONE place from ANOTHER. It is a BARRIER. So the scripture is PLAIN: sin lieth at the door. Not on OUR side, but on the OTHER side. That door MUST be OPENED in order for SIN to ENTER. We must basically INVITE IT IN in order for it to have INFLUENCE over us.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[he-man]

Eve did NOT eat the fruit because of a desire in her OWN heart. That desire was placed there by an entity that KNEW what WAS in her heart. What WAS in her heart was a desire to be EQUAL with Adam. But she had absolutely NO WAY of even ENTERTAINING the idea of fulfillment of her DESIRE UNTIL it was PLACED there by the SERPENT.
MEC

He who opened the mouth of the donkey also opened the mouth of the serpent.

Num 22:23 And the ass saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way.

2Pe 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

Num 22:28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?

Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

God, sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. (Num 21:16) God, who opened the mouth of the serpent also God did SMITE our Lord Jesus.

Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Where is that serpent now? upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: Sounds like the serpent is not threatening anyone if it is crawling on the ground eating dust for that life that is terminated.

Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

Do you think Dan is/was a devil angel or a JUDGE of the people? Gen 49:16 Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel.

17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

 

[Imagican]

he man,

let me see if I am understanding what you are saying:

Are you saying that it was GOD that tempted Eve in the Garden?

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

You aren't REALLY trying to interpret these words LITERALLY? You don't REALLY believe that Dan was a LITERAL SNAKE that laid in wait to bite horses heels to make it's rider fall backwards????????

Blessings,

MEC

 

[BukiRob]

he man,

let me see if I am understanding what you are saying:

Are you saying that it was GOD that tempted Eve in the Garden?

Blessings,

MEC

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

 

[he-man]

17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.You aren't REALLY trying to interpret these words LITERALLY? You don't REALLY believe that Dan was a LITERAL SNAKE that laid in wait to bite horses heels to make it's rider fall backwards MEC

You don't REALLY believe that a LITERAL SNAKE laid in wait for Eve to bite the apple, to make her fall, DO you?

God does not tempt anyone, but He uses His own Angels to test people.

He who opened the mouth of the donkey also opened the mouth of the serpent. Num 22:23 And the ass saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand

Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Mat 8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

Job tells it as it is, that it was the Angel, by the hand of God, who afflicted him.

Job 19:21 Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.

Job 1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.

You must see that it is the things of this world and not a LITERAL devil/satan, but our own lusts that cause us to sin.

1 John 2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. (16) For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world.

 

[Imagican]

You don't REALLY believe that a LITERAL SNAKE laid in wait for Eve to bite the apple, to make her fall, DO you?

God does not tempt anyone, but He uses His own Angels to test people.

He who opened the mouth of the donkey also opened the mouth of the serpent. Num 22:23 And the ass saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand

Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Mat 8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

Job tells it as it is, that it was the Angel, by the hand of God, who afflicted him.

Job 19:21 Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.

Job 1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.

You must see that it is the things of this world and not a LITERAL devil/satan, but our own lusts that cause us to sin.

1 John 2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. (16) For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world.

first, you didn't answer my question. You quoted it, but didn't answer it.

Second. You say I MUST see that it is: the things of this world and our own LUSTS that bring about sin.

it may well be that the FRUITION of sin depends upon our lusts. But my point is that the fruition is the completion. It is certainly NOT the 'whole process'.

And I also contend that our lusts can be INFLUENCED.

I couldn't disagree MORE. Eve's lust was NOT to 'be like God', but merely to be equal with Adam. The IDEA of being "Like God" came from an OUTSIDE source that didn't even EXIST in 'the world' for from traditional beliefs of 'creation', there WAS NO WORLD YET. When we are told to separate ourselves from this world, it is not talking about the EARTH as 'the world', but the PEOPLE and their concepts.

It was the 'serpent of old', the 'dragon', Satan that introduced the IDEA to Eve. At least that is what we are offered in the Bible. I accept what we are offered in the Bible. Not only the parts that I like, but ALL of it. To one extent or another, ALL that is offered in scripture is for our edification and understanding.

What I see is you trying to combine TWO separate concepts into ONE. Yes, we ARE to avoid LOVING the things of this world. But that is not the SAME CONCEPT as that of a TEMPTER being able to influence our actions.

We are TEMPTED, not by God, for God tempts NO MAN to evil, but by the TEMPTER: Satan or his demons.

While our lusts may open up a passage way for demons to be entertained, I can assure you that there are THINGS that have been introduced into my mind and heart that are NOT MY OWN. Those thoughts or ideas were PLACED there. What I DO with those thoughts or ideas may well be dependent upon the LUSTS in my heart. But the IDEAS did NOT originate in my OWN heart or mind. For some of these IDEAS or THOUGHTS are as foreign to me as the Greek language. I know NOTHING of the GREEK language any more than I know anything about some of the thoughts and ideas that are introduced into my heart and mind.

I really hate to use the word Satan in reference to personal influence. Satan doesn't have TIME for peons like US. He is focused on those in HIGH places. Not peons like us. The concept of 'the devil made me do it' was a lie created by Satan to make us BELIEVE we are important enough for him to waste his time on us. HARDLY. He is focused on those that are able to ALTER the WORLD itself.

But he has MANY MANY MANY demons that do his bidding. And they LOVE to dwell inside of men. And they LOVE to influence men to do those things that they CANNOT. Their rebellion was limited to ONE TIME. And after that they were CAST OUT. No longer able to exert FREE WILL except THROUGH those that LET them. And even then, they are LIMITED by the amount of influence one ALLOWS them to have. But, nevertheless, they LOVE to influence men to do THEIR BIDDING. They get to EXPERIENCE it through the ones within whom they RESIDE.

Just like we are told that once Christ lives within our hearts, the THINGS that we do we, in a sense, FORCE Christ to experience. The scriptures tell us that if we fornicate or commit adultery as 'followers', we are basically FORCING Christ to endure whatever it is that we DO. For WE become a PART of each other: Ourselves and Christ.

It is NO DIFFERENT with demons. They get to experience what WE DO. For once we allow them into ourselves, they are a PART of us.

The boy that was possessed by the demon or DEMONS that threw him into the fire or water were a PART of him. That is why it was necessary for them to be CAST OUT in order to free him from their influence.

I am not offering merely my OWN interpretation. I am offering a DEEPER understanding of EXACTLY what the Bible teaches those that are willing to HEAR and accept what it offers.

He man, do me a favor, explain to me what your take on ALL that is offered in the Gospels concerning DEMONS or EVIL SPIRITS. Tell me, what is it that YOU believe they ARE or if you believe that what the Bible offers concerning demons was falsely ADDED to the Bible by the Catholic Church.

For we seem to be at a standstill on this issue. You keep offering that there is no such thing as an entity known as Satan. That would indicate that you do not BELIEVE in the existence of DEMONS either.

So how do you explain all the examples of Jesus casting out demons, all that He spoke of concerning demons and the information that He empowered the apostles to 'cast out demons' as well?

Instead of quoting random bits and pieces of scripture, I believe it would be MORE prudent if you just explained what it is that YOU believe concerning the existence of Satan and his demons. Why is the information IN the Bible concerning Satan and his demons? And if it is not TRUTH, then how is it that there are many pieces of the ancient scrolls that contain this information BEYOND our present Bibles?

Blessings,

MEC

 

[he-man]

first, you didn't answer my question. You quoted it, but didn't answer it.First 17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.You aren't REALLY trying to interpret these words LITERALLY? You don't REALLY believe that Dan was a LITERAL SNAKE that laid in wait to bite horses heels to make it's rider fall backwards MEC

And I aswered "You don't REALLY believe that a LITERAL SNAKE " laid in wait for Eve to bite the apple, to make her fall, DO you?

That means NO, that is why I gave you the example of Dan, I do not believe Dan was a Literal Snake/devil/satan/serpent, anymore than I believe that Eve was tested by a Literal Snake/devil/satan/serpent.

Second. You say I MUST see that it is: the things of this world and our own LUSTS that bring about sin.

SECOND Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

And I also contend that our lusts can be INFLUENCED.

How can our own lusts and desires be influenced by anything other than our own lusts and desires?

I couldn't disagree MORE. Eve's lust was NOT to 'be like God', but merely to be equal with Adam. The IDEA of being "Like God" came from an OUTSIDE source that didn't even EXIST in 'the world' for from traditional beliefs of 'creation', there WAS NO WORLD YET. When we are told to separate ourselves from this world, it is not talking about the EARTH as 'the world', but the PEOPLE and their concepts.

Tell me then, whom did Cain marry if there were not other people in the world?

It was the 'serpent of old', the 'dragon', Satan that introduced the IDEA to Eve. At least that is what we are offered in the Bible. I accept what we are offered in the Bible.

Then show me a scripture that says in the OT that there ever was a SATAN, as you call it. The word Satan is only used four times in the OT.

We are TEMPTED, not by God, for God tempts NO MAN to evil, but by the TEMPTER: Satan or his demons.

I thought you believed all scriptures in the Bible? Please explain why Job says that GOD tested him. Why doesn't Job say the Devil/Satan tempted himwhen he is talking about his friends?
Job 19:21 Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.

22 Why do ye persecute me as God, and are not satisfied with my flesh?

I know NOTHING of the GREEK language any more than I know anything about some of the thoughts and ideas that are introduced into my heart and mind.

You sound like Ananias. If you would only learn the "TRUTH" it can set you free" Least you fall down, and give up the ghost

Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

But he has MANY MANY MANY demons that do his bidding. Just like we are told that once Christ lives within our hearts, the THINGS that we do we, in a sense, FORCE Christ to experience.

The only thing you can force Christ to do is to slay them before me.
Luk 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

The boy that was possessed by the demon or DEMONS that threw him into the fire or water were a PART of him. That is why it was necessary for them to be CAST OUT in order to free him from their influence.

Been there, done that. The boy was an epileptic. Go get a concordance and learn some GREEK.

He man, do me a favor, explain to me what your take on ALL that is offered in the Gospels concerning DEMONS or EVIL SPIRITS. And if it is not TRUTH, then how is it that there are many pieces of the ancient scrolls that contain this information BEYOND our present Bibles?MEC

If you do not understand Koine GREEK, it is difficult for you to know what the ancient scrolls contain. The word in GREEK for Satan is "False Accuser"; anyone who opposes the plan of God. The False Accusers are those who testified and lied about "The Christ"
. They plotted to kill him to gain his inheritance and what do you think that means? Weren't they the Leaders of the people, the chief priests and scribes?

Luk 20:14But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.

Luk 22:2 And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people

Job tells it as it is, that it was the Angel, by the hand of God, who afflicted him.

Job 19:21 Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.

Job 1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.

You must open your eyes and mind and see that it is not a LITERAL devil/satan, but our own lusts that cause us to sin.

Luk 19:26For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.

 

[Imagican]

He man, do you believe we were created PERFECTLY? That Jesus Christ, through the power of His Father, created us PERFECTLY?

For that is what I believe in all sincerity. We were created in THEIR image. That being the case, if They are PERFECT, then we were created in that PERFECT IMAGE.

Do you believe that Christ, when living among the Flesh, was ENTICED by His LUSTS?

Yet the Bible tells us that He was TEMPTED by the Devil on NUMEROUS occasion. And the ONLY difference between MEN and Christ is that HE refused to be LED into TEMPTATION.

It is MY firm belief that it IS our LUSTS that open the DOOR to temptation. Satan KNOWS what is in our hearts if we LET HIM IN: (his demons). And once he KNOWS what is in our hearts, it is TOO easy for him to tempt us to ACT upon our lusts. While he may not CREATE the lust itself, he encourages us to ACT upon it by throwing temptation in our paths. OFFERING ideas of HOW to fulfill our lusts. Making our lusts become MANIFEST through the FLESH.

One may have a lust for riches in their heart. Satan recognizes this and sends his demons to cause this lust to GROW in one's heart. One day, the man sees someone drop some money on the ground and walk away. The demon, (demonS), encourage him to pick the money up and stick it in his pocket instead of giving it back to the person who dropped it. He does and has just made the FIRST step towards relinquishing his CONTROL, (ability to overcome temptation), to the demons possessing him. As time progresses, they end up being able to convince him to STEAL everything he is able. Eventually influencing him to KILL for money.

From YOUR perspective, ALL the influence came from the man's OWN heart. HOW? How do you suppose a man, who never DREAMED of stealing, one day wakes up with the IDEA? If the RIGHT thing to do is to pick the money up and hand it back to the person that dropped it, WHERE did the IDEA of KEEPING it for oneself by stealing it COME FROM?

Whether the snake or the apple in the story are literal or not, they most certainly represent a CONCEPT. And that concept is the introduction of SIN, (rebellion against God's Word), was BY an alternate SOURCE. A source DIFFERENT than God. A source capable of understanding our HEARTS and placing things in front of us, (ideas), that are contrary to the fulfillment of our TRUE purpose: LOVE.

Satan's desire is to cause the FALL of ALL men in order to destroy what God gave to His Son. Satan believed that it should have been HIM chosen to create man. And since he felt this way, he felt betrayed by God when God created His SON for this purpose. So he rebelled. And has spent ALL of his time SINCE trying to subvert EVERY MAN from the path of righteousness. He has attempted to STEAL ALL MEN away from God and His Son. And he has used ALL the angels that rebelled WITH HIM. And we have absolutely NO IDEA exactly how many that number is. OBVIOUSLY a BUNCH. For the Bible tells us that Christ cast SEVEN demons out of Mary. And that He cast THOUSANDS out of the 'man named Legion'.

So, you can choose to ignore what the Bible offers, or try and understand it. But your premiss doesn't add up in accordance to the Word. Nor does it add up according to my own personal experience. For you see, I have WITNESSED demons and I have personal experience with both EVIL and GOOD. I have been HONEST with myself and have RECOGNIZED the SOURCE of my temptations. And that ACCORDING to the Word, not in opposition to it.

God offers each of us who follow ONLY what we are able to bear. That includes TEMPTATION, and that includes UNDERSTANDING. He will NEVER allow Satan to tempt up without our being able to RESIST. And He will ONLY reveal to an individual what they are ABLE to understand. And these things are DIFFERENT with EVERY MAN. The boundaries, limits, amount, or whatever other word one choose to define HOW MUCH. How MUCH one can be tempted and still overcome. How MUCH one is able to truly understand, varies with each of us. And God KNOWS these limits.

That is WHY He has specifically chosen specific people's to do specific THINGS in throughout history. He KNOWS who can HANDLE what He places before them. He KNOWS who can overcome specific amounts of temptation. He KNOWS who can bear in understanding what He has to offer so far as duties and challenges and such.

For we battle NOT against flesh and blood, but against the POWER OF DARKNESS, TEMPTATION thrown against us from HIGH PLACES. That is WHY we are NOT to fear those capable of destroying our FLESH, but that which is able to destroy our very SOULS: Satan and his demons.

And never forget, the demons dwelling within OTHERS are often able to tempt us JUST as much or MORE than the demons dwelling within ourselves. Eve didn't seem to have TOO much problem convincing Adam to DISOBEY just as she had. We have NO story of him putting up much of a FIGHT. Which perfectly illustrates the POWER of the demons of OTHERS to influence ourselves in a way OUR OWN DEMONS often have no power to accomplish.

Look guys and gals, IT IS A WORLD WIDE CONSPIRACY. From the moment in the garden till this very day and beyond, Satan is CONSPIRING to turn EVERY human being AWAY from God through whatever means at his disposal. WHATEVER MEANS. And having DOMINION over this world, he has a LOT of MEANS.

And he-man, how do you propose to defend yourself against that which you refuse to believe exists? How would a nation defend itself against an enemy they refuse to acknowledge?

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Norah63]

There must needs be opposition.
We are not that, the adversary is. Imo.

 

[Imagican]

How about this?:

My wife and I have come to the TRUTH of Christmas and NO LONGER CELEBRATE IT. At least that what we TELL people.

Yet we STILL buy presents for our grandchildren, wrap them in paper and hand them out on Christmas morning.

SEE, we BELIEVE one thing and DO another. WE KNOW that Christmas is a pagan celebration and want NO PART of it, but we LOVE our grandchildren and are NOT willing to suffer what it would take by refusing to let THEM celebrate it.

WHY? Because the WORLD has a greater influence than the TRUTH. And which among us is TRULY willing to suffer what it would take to separate ourselves FROM IT? And I propose that anyone that is unable or unwilling to DO SO, yet CLAIMS to be a follower of Christ, has been DUPED. Satan has WON the battle for your soul. For we are COMMANDED that we MUST follow in TRUTH and Spirit. And if we find ourselves UNABLE or UNWILLING to separate ourselves FROM 'this world', then we are NOT following in TRUTH and Spirit. For we are ALSO commanded to be SEPARATE from 'this world'. We are COMMANDED NOT to place our love and faith in THINGS. We are commanded NOT to love the 'creature MORE than the Creator'. Yet LOOK at each of us from the perspective of TRUTH and the TRUTH is, we are ALL just as much a part of 'this world' as those we have been commanded to separate ourselves from.

Here's he-man trying to tell us that Satan or demons DON'T EVEN EXIST. And he seems to be utterly sincere in his offerings. But I KNOW that he is WRONG. He has been DUPED into false understanding. The Bible offers TOO much, my experiences are NOT delusions, Satan is REAL and so are his demons. I would offer this: if you TRULY believe in God, you MUST believe in His Word. And His Word STATES that Satan and demons EXIST. The Gospels are FULL of examples of Christ casting out demons. Empowering His apostles to cast them out. And the apostles PLAINLY warn us to RESIST the DEVIL and """"""""""HE""""""""""" will flee. We are not told to RESIST ourselves. But the DEVIL. And the word """""HE""""" is used to define his very nature as a TRUE ENTITY. He is a HE. The Devil is MASCULINE my NATURE.

Oh, and watch how EASILY we have been duped: There is not a single mention of a FEMALE angel in the Bible. Yet every time we see a physical representation, (graven image), of one, they are FEMALE.

How about this example: Let us pretend for one moment that "I" am a prostitute. A prostitute that practices my trade seven days a week as many hours as I can find customers. One day, it comes to me how WRONG what I am doing truly is. So I decide to only practice on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

Question: At this point, am I any LESS a prostitute? Or am I the SAME prostitute who just doesn't WORK as much as I USE TO?

It is the same with the level we have all been DUPED. We are willing to cut our the sins that don't really mean a lot to us. But hold on just as dearly as ever to the ones that we LOVE the most. We PRETEND that we believe we are followers, but take practically NO STEPS each day. We like to compare ourselves: "I'm not as BAD as HE is......". When in truth, we really ARE 'just as bad a HE is, only in our OWN choices of SINS'. We point out how obsessed someone else is with MONEY, all the while coveting their 'things'.

If that is NOT being DUPED, then maybe I am just really confused as to the meaning of the word and my understanding of God and His purpose for us is COMPLETELY askew. But I certainly don't THINK so. I BELIEVE that the understanding I offer is understanding revealed directly FROM the Holy Spirit. What say ye? Everyone else is following in TRUTH and "I am the ONLY one that has been duped"?

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

There must needs be opposition.
We are not that, the adversary is. Imo.

And I believe in this, we are in utter agreement. And it is my belief that what the Bible explains, our adversary IS SATAN. Not only OUR adversary, but Satan is an adversary of God and His Son as well. His SON moreso than God Himself.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[he-man]

He man, do you believe we were created PERFECTLY? That Jesus Christ, through the power of His Father, created us PERFECTLY?

NO

Do you believe that Christ, when living among the Flesh, was ENTICED by His LUSTS?

No, he was tested by an Angel of God.

Yet the Bible tells us that He was TEMPTED by the Devil

You are disillusioned, the Bible syas Jesus was led up by the Spirit to be tested and afterwards the Angels ministered to him Mt. 4:1, 11

From YOUR perspective, ALL the influence came from the man's OWN heart. HOW? How do you suppose a man, who never DREAMED of stealing, one day wakes up with the IDEA? If the RIGHT thing to do is to pick the money up and hand it back to the person that dropped it, WHERE did the IDEA of KEEPING it for oneself by stealing it COME FROM?

You tell me, I have no idea, I would and DID return the money and taught my kids to do the same. Who taught you?

was BY an alternate SOURCE. A source DIFFERENT than God. A source capable of understanding our HEARTS and placing things in front of us, (ideas), that are contrary to the fulfillment of our TRUE purpose: LOVE.

Again, you are adding to more than what the scriptures say.

So, you can choose to ignore what the Bible offers, or try and understand it.And he-man, how do you propose to defend yourself against that which you refuse to believe exists? How would a nation defend itself against an enemy they refuse to acknowledge? Blessings,MEC

I would invite you to sit with me.
Acts 8:30 Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked. “How can I,” he said, “unless someone explains it to me?” So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
Proverbs 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom; From His mouth come knowledge and understanding;
Proverbs 30:5 "Every word of God is pure"

 

[Imagican]

Ok he-man,

I am not quite SURE what Bible you are reading, funny how you left THIS part out. This is what MINE says and I highlighted the part you LEFT out:

Matthew 4 King James Version (KJV)

4 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.


And I don't THINK that I have to remind of those THREE temptations. And the wording SPECIFICALLY denotes: DEVIL. Three times Christ was tempted BY the DEVIL. The angles mentioned were there to MINISTER unto Him. Not TEMPT Him.


and then there is this:



11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.


A statement that plainly illustrates that AFTER the devil departed from Him, THEN angels came and ministered unto Him.


Now, PLEASE, show us WHERE in the scripture concerning Christ being tempted, there is ANY INDICATION that the 'devil' was an angel.


then, let us consider that the Bible teaches us that God WILL NOT TEMPT US TO EVIL. The Bible tells us that God CANNOT tempt us to evil. How do you propose that His angels CAN?


So NOW you are going to try and indicate that my scenario or 'story' was about ME and then indicate that YOU believe that I STOLE someone's money? Oh my. It was a STORY or an EXAMPLE. Nothing more, nothing less. But don't get me wrong, I will openly admit that I HAVE stolen things in my life. Fornicated, used drugs, drank unto drunkenness, lied, cheated, heck, in my heart, I doubt there is a sin possible that has not entered there at one time or another. I am CHIEF among sinners. And have been all my life. But I recognize that most if not ALL of it was a product of BENDING to temptation. ALLOWING temptation INTO my heart and then performing whatever thoughts and actions necessary to make it manifest through the FLESH.

But in answer to your question: My parents, like MOST, I assume, taught me what most would call 'Christian values'. And I was raised in a household where we didn't ROAM or DO as we pleased. By the time I came along my father was an Officer in the Navy. He demanded and commanded the SAME respect in his house as he did from those that worked UNDER him at work. And my mother was raised in a very STRICT Baptist home. And brought an awful lot of the same values into her home so far as her children were concerned.

But much of that had absolutely NO bearing once I was old enough to make my OWN decisions. How about YOU, your parents STILL 'babysitting YOU'? Still TEACHING you?

I have added NOTHING to scripture. I might, at times, offer that which is a CULMINATION of MANY scripture into a single concept or understanding. But that is NOT 'adding' to scripture. That is UNDERSTANDING the ENTIRETY of scripture instead of trying to form understanding or doctrine from individual LINES.

For example: I don't NEED the Bible to TELL me the 'serpent' in the garden KNEW what was in Eve's heart. For it is CLEAR that it was NECESSARY in order to KNOW what to offer in order to TEMPT her. If the 'serpent' had merely TOLD her to eat WITHOUT knowing HOW to tempt her, she would have most assuredly RESISTED and REFUSED.

So, he-man, it is CLEAR to me EXACTLY what method the 'serpent' used. The Bible is FULL of examples of Satan, the devil, that serpent of old, TEMPTING people with EXACTLY what was necessary to overcome them. And the ONLY means that would make that POSSIBLE is for Satan to have the ability to KNOW what's IN one's heart.

And let me add this for those that already KNOW it but have never truly contemplated the issue: The CLOSER you get to God the more difficult it is for Satan to tempt one to fulfillment. But being the 'slickster' that Satan is, the closer one gets and the more difficult for him to accomplish his goal, the LARGER the temptations are that he places before you. That 'impossible DREAM girl'. The 'trinket' that you have always wanted but never been able to obtain on your own. That JOB. That CAR. That MEANS to exact revenge upon. Fame, fortune, power. He has complete and utter understanding of what it means to have a pet sin. His was the desire to usurp God and BE God himself. And he UNDERSTANDS the exact mechanisms that led HIM to disobey and knows exactly how to TEMPT US in the exact same way. He KNEW what Eve wanted and offered her SO MUCH MORE she could NOT resist.

I feel compelled to readdress the SILLY notion that we ONLY DO what we are TAUGHT by our parents. Neither of my parents EVER did drugs ONCE. My dad barely drank and mom not at ALL. Yet I chose to ignore their teachings and both used drugs and drank. From YOUR perspective, I assume that bank robbers are TAUGHT that skill from their parents?????????? What we are taught throughout our lives often has LITTLE bearing upon what we DO. The Bible teaches us EXACTLY what we are to DO and NOT do, yet NO ONE is able to FOLLOW IT'S teachings. So your premiss that a person facing a situation is somehow CONFINED to what they have been TAUGHT is utterly inane. We DO what we are TEMPTED to do so far as EVIL is concerned. And what we are TAUGHT by parents, schools or life in general, or even the BIBLE or Holy Spirit itself, is often NOT ENOUGH to keep us from stumbling.

Blessings,

MEC

Now, YOU explain to US what your take is on ALL the instances where men and women came to Christ 'ASKING' Him to deliver their children from DEMONS or evil spirits. Not ANGELS, but EVIL spirits.

 

[he-man]

Ok he-man, I am not quite SURE what Bible you are reading, funny how you left THIS part out. This is what MINE says and I highlighted the part you LEFT out:

????