What if we have ALL been 'duped'?

[he-man]

You keep insisting that the account of Satan's fall, offered in Revelation is a 'future' event.For there to be a 'future event' involving Satan, that 'old dragon' or 'the Devil, there MUST BE a Satan, old dragon, a Devil. But to give you the opportunity to explain yourself, exactly WHEN is this, 'Satan', who will be involved with a 'future event' going to BEGIN to exist? If he is not already in existence, exactly WHEN is he going to COME INTO EXISTENCE? Blessings, MEC

What do you mean WHEN did The false prophet and the kings of the earth, and their armies come into being?
Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

her-aft'-er represents Hebrew 'achar, "hinder part," "end" (Isaiah 41:23), "the things that are to come hereafter" (Daniel 2:29, 45), 'achar, "after," "behind," "last" (Ezekiel 20:39), Greek ap' arti, (Matthew 26:64), "Hereafter ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven,"

Do you think this was a PAST event too?
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Not to mention the fact that David told you what it was
An adversary of David B.C. 1017 H7854 השׂטן śâṭân Σατανας, Σαταν΄From H7853; an opponent;- adversary, hater, accuser

1Ch 21:2 . 2Sa 24:1 Satan [an adversary] stood up against Israel, and provoked David: compare 2Sa 24:1 and he [the Lord] moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
compare 2Sa 12:11 the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee
Job also explained the meaning of how the word Σαταν is used:
Job 1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.

Job 19:21 Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.

Job 1:6-2:6 the sons of God before the LORD, and Satan [an adversary] <H7854> &#1492;&#1513;&#1474;&#1496;&#1503; s&#769;a&#770;t&#803;a&#770;n &#931;&#945;&#964;&#945;&#957;&#945;&#962;, &#931;&#945;&#964;&#945;&#957; came also with them.

2Co 12:7 a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan <G4566> Of Hebrew origin <H7854> to buffet me
[some physical malady; particular affliction [RWP] 1 verse found, 1 match
Comparison of Lexicon by YLT

Who were the False accusers do we have any Today? Luk 9:22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.

 

[rick357]

This country was NOT formed upon Christian principles. It was formed by a group of Masons who wanted FREEDOM to worship their OWN god in whatever manner they chose. They made it possible for a NATION to worship ANY gods in whatever manner they deemed fit. If anything, they formed this nation to DESTROY the TRUE God and usher in the worship of OTHER gods.

Constantine was NOT a 'Christian' in any way, shape or FORM. He was raised to be a ruthless Emperor and that is exactly what he was throughout the entire time of his being Emperor. He was a RUTHLESS murderer and his ushering in of his NEW religion was PURELY political. He didn't care a BIT about it other than his belief that it could be used to strengthen his Empire.

George Washington was a FREE MASON. While they often CLAIM to be 'Christians', if one does but a cursory study of what is KNOWN about their agenda, it is CLEAR that they are NOT followers of God or His Son. They are basically what are know as Luciferians. They believe that Lucifer is the LIGHT bringer or one who Enlightens.

Free Masons. Get it? FREE BUILDERS. Free from the bonds of the KNOWN God. Building a NEW 'world order'. And that is who FORMED America. FREE MASONS. And TRUST me folks, the fairy tales you were taught in public schools couldn't have been FURTHER from the TRUTH. They were designed by the very people that made themselves out to be HEROES instead of the ruthless manipulators they truly were. Read some of the TRUE evidence of their lives and it becomes perfectly clear that the stories school children are taught are JUST THAT: stories.

So trying to laud Constantine or Washington as being somehow DEFENDERS of the FAITH is about like putting the wolf in the sheep's den.

Blessings,

MEC

Yes if you go far enough you learn they worship lucifer who as I said is Adam...consider this with brigham youngs(who was a mason)teaching that Adam was the God of this world and the only God we should serve....spit

 

[Der Alte]

This country was NOT formed upon Christian principles. It was formed by a group of Masons who wanted FREEDOM to worship their OWN god in whatever manner they chose. They made it possible for a NATION to worship ANY gods in whatever manner they deemed fit. If anything, they formed this nation to DESTROY the TRUE God and usher in the worship of OTHER gods.

You make a lot of assertions but I don't see any evidence.

Constantine was NOT a 'Christian' in any way, shape or FORM. He was raised to be a ruthless Emperor and that is exactly what he was throughout the entire time of his being Emperor. He was a RUTHLESS murderer and his ushering in of his NEW religion was PURELY political. He didn't care a BIT about it other than his belief that it could be used to strengthen his Empire.

More accusations with no, zero, none evidence. Try reading some real history such as Eusebius and Lactantius who lived concurrent with Constantine. Both say that Constantine was a Christian. Was he perfect? Are you? Worry about the log, not the speck.

George Washington was a FREE MASON. While they often CLAIM to be 'Christians', if one does but a cursory study of what is KNOWN about their agenda, it is CLEAR that they are NOT followers of God or His Son. They are basically what are know as Luciferians. They believe that Lucifer is the LIGHT bringer or one who Enlightens.

Free Masons. Get it? FREE BUILDERS. Free from the bonds of the KNOWN God. Building a NEW 'world order'. And that is who FORMED America. FREE MASONS. And TRUST me folks, the fairy tales you were taught in public schools couldn't have been FURTHER from the TRUTH. They were designed by the very people that made themselves out to be HEROES instead of the ruthless manipulators they truly were. Read some of the TRUE evidence of their lives and it becomes perfectly clear that the stories school children are taught are JUST THAT: stories.

So trying to laud Constantine or Washington as being somehow DEFENDERS of the FAITH is about like putting the wolf in the sheep's den.

Blessings,

MEC

Evidence? Documentation? Substantiation?

 

[Jonteel]

Destination is knowing God. What is the means or transportation to said destination? I believe two things are used, first scripture, but is scripture enough?

 

[interpreter]

This country was NOT formed upon Christian principles. It was formed by a group of Masons who wanted FREEDOM to worship their OWN god in whatever manner they chose. They made it possible for a NATION to worship ANY gods in whatever manner they deemed fit. If anything, they formed this nation to DESTROY the TRUE God and usher in the worship of OTHER gods.

Constantine was NOT a 'Christian' in any way, shape or FORM. He was raised to be a ruthless Emperor and that is exactly what he was throughout the entire time of his being Emperor. He was a RUTHLESS murderer and his ushering in of his NEW religion was PURELY political. He didn't care a BIT about it other than his belief that it could be used to strengthen his Empire.

George Washington was a FREE MASON. While they often CLAIM to be 'Christians', if one does but a cursory study of what is KNOWN about their agenda, it is CLEAR that they are NOT followers of God or His Son. They are basically what are know as Luciferians. They believe that Lucifer is the LIGHT bringer or one who Enlightens.

Free Masons. Get it? FREE BUILDERS. Free from the bonds of the KNOWN God. Building a NEW 'world order'. And that is who FORMED America. FREE MASONS. And TRUST me folks, the fairy tales you were taught in public schools couldn't have been FURTHER from the TRUTH. They were designed by the very people that made themselves out to be HEROES instead of the ruthless manipulators they truly were. Read some of the TRUE evidence of their lives and it becomes perfectly clear that the stories school children are taught are JUST THAT: stories.

So trying to laud Constantine or Washington as being somehow DEFENDERS of the FAITH is about like putting the wolf in the sheep's den.

Blessings,

MEC

A Christian nation is any nation where the majority of citizens are Christians. Both Constantine and George Washington were conquerors who founded Christian super powers.

 

[mafwons]

A Christian nation is any nation where the majority of citizens are Christians. Both Constantine and George Washington were conquerors who founded Christian super powers.

Forum rules do not allow me to discuss this matter conerning Costantine, but as to the Christian superpower founded by George Washington could you elaborate. What is the name of this "christian superpower" founded by George Washington, and when did he have time what with his service in the Continetal army his work and serving two terms as president of the United States?

 

[Imagican]

You make a lot of assertions but I don't see any evidence.



More accusations with no, zero, none evidence. Try reading some real history such as Eusebius and Lactantius who lived concurrent with Constantine. Both say that Constantine was a Christian. Was he perfect? Are you? Worry about the log, not the speck.



Evidence? Documentation? Substantiation?

This isn't a thread about Constantine. If you would like the evidence you seek, open a thread on Constantine and when I have the time, I'll give you what you say doesn't exist.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

Let me offer this folks: There has NEVER BEEN a 'Christian Nation' in the history of the WORLD.

But I'll offer this: there have been Nations that USED HIS NAME.

But it's NOT about merely USING a name that makes someone what they CLAIM to be.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

he man,

ALL I offered was that the chapter concerning the "old serpent" or 'the Devil', was a recap of the past. I don't think that ANYONE would argue that Revelation is Prophecy of the future. What you seem to insist upon REFUSING to accept is that in ANY 'story' or "prophecy" or 'account' concerning the future, there are NO RULES that eliminate the introduction of past or present in it's relation to the FUTURE.

Revelation is exactly that: Revelation. It is information that is REVEALED. While the purpose of it was to explain future events, that doesn't mean that everything written in the book pertains ONLY to the future. To use the names of God and Christ are REFERENCES to the past. Christ's judgment of the 'churches' is offered in PAST tense.

And you trying to indicate that the 'old serpent', the great dragon, the Devil: Satan is somehow to be interpreted, "Kings of this world"? Now that is REALLY pushing it.

You already stated that the chapter explaining the 'war in heaven' is a future event. Indicative of admission that the Devil: Satan is GOING to exist. Now you are trying to indicate something entirely different.

As I stated before: you and I have already been through this to the point that in the past I was forced to just 'let it go'. You have somehow been able to convince yourself that the Bible is inaccurate in it's offerings. I obviously cannot convince you to accept what it offers. Under such circumstances, the prudent thing to do is just 'let it go'.

I've done what I can to try and place the Bible in it's proper perspective. You insist that the Bible is WRONG. So there really isn't anything else to discuss concerning the issue. We've spent the majority of our comments on this thread about something we've already discussed. The issue isn't whether Satan exists or not, the issue concerns the possibility that we have ALL been duped into believing something 'other than the truth'.

And so far as that subject is concerned, it is perfectly clear that ONE OF US has surely been DUPED. I offer that Satan is a 'fallen angel' and that the Bible is clear that when he fell a third of the angels in heaven were cast out with him. I call those angels DEMONS. I believe that this is utterly Biblical. And I believe that both Satan and his demons have the ability to possess those that do not resist their influence. That both Satan and his demons have the ability to actually LIVE INSIDE of their hosts. There is only ONE Satan so he doesn't even bother with insignificant people like US. He is concentrating his efforts on those that have the ability to actually ALTER the world. He uses his demons to influence the rest.

You say that we are our OWN worst enemies. That the evil that we perform is purely a product of our own desire. I say that this is an IMPOSSIBILITY. If God created us in HIS IMAGE, something other than ourselves HAS to be responsible for our FALL FROM GRACE. And it's CLEAR that for there to be a NEED to bring us BACK into His grace, (Jesus Christ), SOMETHING was responsible for our fall. If ALL God taught us was GOOD, something ELSE had to introduce EVIL. And that something else was Satan. He USES our desires and LUSTS to entice us to do that which is unseemly. Him and his demons.

And one of his most potent weapons against men is to convince them that he doesn't even exist. To lull them into a false belief that HE IS GOD. And he does this through sensuality. He appeals to the SENSES in offering people a FEEL GOOD perspective that is able to convince them HE IS GOD. And for those that don't KNOW God, they are unable to tell the difference. How could they? For Satan is able to mimic God and His Son almost to perfection. He's had a practical ETERNITY to practice.

And he man, most people couldn't care less about their 'spirituality' compared to their PLEASURE. So if Satan is able to produce this pleasure in the guise of God, most people will WILLING ALLOW THEMSELVES TO BE DUPED. If they GET WHAT THEY WANT, they will WILLINGLY be DUPED. Willingly follow false practices and understanding.

So, this will be my last post on this thread about Satan. You are pretty much 'set' in what you believe and I am CERTAINLY 'set' in what I believe and that is basically ALL we have accomplished in discussing the issue. I am an adamant believer in the Bible. You don't believe in the Bible. So we are trying to discuss something that really CAN'T be discussed. It would be like trying to discuss a book that one of us has read but the other hasn't. What could the person that hasn't read it offer to the person that HAS?

I accept the Bible AS OFFERED. You insist that it MUST be 're-interpreted' to find YOUR truth. We are looking at the issue from two entirely DIFFERENT perspectives and can ONLY end up in disagreement.

And this entire debate has accomplished the ONE thing that the thread was about: what if we've ALL been duped into a false sense of 'truth'? What if EACH that professes to be a follower doesn't even KNOW what it means to BE a follower? What if EACH of us has allowed the 'things of this world' to cloud any POTENTIAL truth that is offered through The Holy Spirit? What if EACH of us has learned to love the 'creature', (ourselves), MORE than the 'Creator'?

Oh, and of all the denominations I have studied and encountered, it would appear that the JWs and the Mormons are probably two groups that come CLOSEST to ALL believing the same thing. Not PROMOTING either one. For I think they BOTH have their issues concerning truth as well. But from what I have experienced, they are two groups that follow a SET of beliefs in the SAME manner.

All the other major denominations seem to be groups of people that MOST don't even KNOW what they believe. They merely USE common words and phrases yet have as many different beliefs as their are individuals.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[he-man]

he man,ALL I offered was that the chapter concerning the "old serpent" or 'the Devil', was a recap of the past.

You must mean like Chola Natraj,

 

[Imagican]

My premiss is sound. The Bible TELLS us that before this Earth is altered there MUST be a 'falling away' FIRST. I am a firm believer that we are in the LAST DAYS. So it ONLY stands to reason that the 'falling away' STARTED a long time ago and nearing it's completion if we are truly in the 'last days'.

And that 'falling away' will NOT be a lessening of RELIGION. It will be a 'falling away' from the TRUTH. That means that almost every man, woman and child will be led AWAY from the truth as we near the end. I believe that the end is NEAR. So I believe that ALMOST every man, woman and child has been DUPED into a false understanding.

I have offered the evidence of what has led me to believe this. The most profound single piece being: in my 53 years I have YET to find TWO people that believe in the SAME THING.

Some say that this doesn't matter. That each of us is able to have our OWN truth revealed. I say that this is an IMPOSSIBILITY so far as TRUTH is concerned. Ten people, when asked the TRUTH, CANNOT come up with TEN DIFFERENT truths. Impossible. They can SAY it's the truth, but there can ONLY BE 'one truth'. That is what makes the 'truth' the 'truth'. It is UNIVERSAL. It cannot, NOT be the truth.

As I asked previous: Which among us would willingly SELL everything we own and give the money to the poor and place our utter faith in God through Christ? That is what Christ told the 'rich man' who asked what he needed to do in order to receive what Christ spoke of. Are WE, (those that profess to be His followers), ANY DIFFERENT? Are we somehow BETTER than the 'rich man'? Less expected from us than him?

And which among us would offer our fancy leather jackets to some 'bum' in need? Give our cars to someone that needed them? Bring a bum in off the streets and clean them up?

And what about this: It is easier for a camel to squeeze through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God. Oh my. When we look at these words in TRUTH, we find that even those that would considered POOR in this country, compared to those at the time of Christ, would have been considered RICH back then.

During Christ's time there were probably people that had NEVER had more than a few pennies in their possession in their WHOLE LIVES. Yet the poor in this country have cable tv, cars, places to live, government supplied food, cell phones, etc............

So where are our hearts REALLY? What are we willing to sacrifice as we've been instructed? And each successive generation teaching their children to be bigger money grubbers than themselves. Teaching their children to become MORE a 'part of this world' than THEMSELVES. Encouraging them to EXCEL in 'worldly education'. Teaching them to live to impress others. Teaching them that their status in life is more important than God or His Son or their fellow man. Is it any WONDER we have arrived at our present state?

And look at the consequences. About half of the women in this country on some sort of medication for depression. Kids walking into schools and shooting innocent children. Leaders of 'churches' molesting children. People walking into "churches" and shooting people.

And here's a good one for you. That money in your pocket with the words, "in God we TRUST" emblazoned upon it, it is getting ready to COLLAPSE. That 'thing' that we place our trust and faith in, MONEY, the American Dollar, it is getting ready to be almost completely USELESS. When it is abandoned as the Reserve Currency, (already has been by most of the world), our dollars aren't going to be worth the paper they are printed on. Maybe THEN some will come to a proper understanding concerning WEALTH. We were NEVER meant to place our faith in WEALTH. It is fleeting and deceptive. And our pleasure should be in serving God and each other, not ourselves.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[he-man]

he man,ALL I offered was that the chapter concerning the "old serpent" or 'the Devil', was a recap of the past.

You must mean like Chola Natraj, A priceless traditional Hindu sculpture from the period of the Chola dynasty which ruled Southern India in the 9th-12th Centuries, C.E.
A Natraj or Nataraja is a traditional depiction of a six-armed Shiva dancing in a ring of fire. He bears a crescent moon on his brow, has serpents entwined around him, holds a flame in the open palm of one hand, dances on a dwarf symbolizing ignorance and beats out a rhythm on a drum. He both dances the world into creation and to destruction

Revelation is exactly that: Revelation. It is information that is REVEALED.

Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

And you trying to indicate that the 'old serpent', the great dragon, the Devil: Satan is somehow to be interpreted, "Kings of this world"? Now that is REALLY pushing it.You already stated that the chapter explaining the 'war in heaven' is a future event. Indicative of admission that the Devil: Satan is GOING to exist. Now you are trying to indicate something entirely different.

I have already explained to you who Satan represents and it is a human entity and not a "fallen angel" as you insist.

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. [/SIZE]

I've done what I can to try and place the Bible in it's proper perspective. The issue isn't whether Satan exists or not, the issue concerns the possibility that we have ALL been duped into believing something 'other than the truth'.

That IS the issue, for if you believe in a false idea "that God would allow an Angel to fall" then you have, indeed been duped into that "Other Truth".
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

I call those angels DEMONS. I believe that this is utterly Biblical. And I believe that both Satan and his demons have the ability to possess those that do not resist their influence.

The term rendered "devil" in Deut. 32,17; Psa. 106, 37, is a (shed. properly lord, Sept. and Vulg. Daemon),: an idol, since the Jew regarded it as demons that caused themselves to be worshiped by men. The belief of the Hebrews down to the Babylonian exile seems but dimly to have recognized either Satan or demons, at least as a dogmatic tenet, nor had it many occasions for them, since it treated moral evils as a properly humans act (comp. Gen. 3), and always as subjective and concrete, but regarded misfortunes according to teleological axioms, as a punishment deserved on account of sin at the hand of a righteous God, who inflicted it especially by the agency of one of his angels (2 Sam. 24,16; comp. 2 kings xix, 35), and was according looked upon as the proper author of every afflictive dis&#961;ensation

You say that we are our OWN worst enemies.

No, God says we are our own worst enemies.
Jas 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God

Luk 19:26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me..

SOMETHING was responsible for our fall. If ALL God taught us was GOOD, something ELSE had to introduce EVIL.

God told us not to eat of the fruit of good and evil, but man chose to eat it and must now suffer the consequences. Since nothing exists unless God creates it, He has supplied the evil for us to reject, or choose to accept. If there were no evil, there would be no way to test us.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these

I am an adamant believer in the Bible. What could the person that hasn't read it offer to the person that HAS?

It would behoove that person to rethink their position and to examine their own motivation for seeking and finding the truth. It may have come from a false delusion of their own selves and they have to continue in self deception or to face the fact that they, personally, are to blame and cannot pass the buck to to an imaginary idol creature.

I accept the Bible AS OFFERED. You insist that it MUST be 're-interpreted' to find YOUR truth. We are looking at the issue from two entirely DIFFERENT perspectives and can ONLY end up in disagreement.

There is not a disagreement but only failure to face the reality of what is to be worshipped because they have changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the fabricated idols more than the Creator. 1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

What if EACH of us has allowed the 'things of this world' to cloud any POTENTIAL truth that is offered through The Holy Spirit? What if EACH of us has learned to love the 'creature', (ourselves), MORE than the 'Creator'? Blessings, MEC

I would have to say they have been duped into becoming fools and Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the fabricated idols more than the Creatorthrough the lusts of their own hearts, and into believing a superhuman being devil is the nature of creeping things. Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

 

[Imagican]

John 8:

41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


Blessings,


MEC

 

[he-man]

John 8:

41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. Blessings, MEC

This exact sense of the word diabolos, namely, as embracing the utterer of false accusation, develops the force of another passage in which Jesus, after being falsely-accused by the Jews, charges them:- Jno. 8v 44-&#8220;Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye do&#8221; -that is, you adopt the character of a false accuserin calumniating me: ye, as such, are the children of this state of mind.

You, in mind, are led away by the accursed disposition of falsely-accusing: ye are the children mentally of the false-accuser, and being so, your mental perceptions manifest their parentage. And the destructive character of this falsely-accusing state of mind, of this slaying by calumny all that is excellent, of this giving false views of the character of God, is exhibited by the passage in question;

Jno. 8v 44 - &#8220;He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because truth is not in him: when he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it.&#8221; So that when the mind is in this state, truth is not present: it is banished: the mind generates lies: it murders truth. This selfish state slays the man, defacing the likeness-to-God state: and this, from the very first, when it gained the mastery.

Another passage in the Common Version in which the phrase &#8220;the devil&#8221; occurs would be beautifully expressive, truly natural, if rendered according to the proper interpretation, &#8220;false-accuser.&#8221; Paul is recommending the Ephesians to perform all
the social duties in such a way as to give no cause of complaint to any one, not even the most captious; to those anxiously looking for opportunities to charge them with offences:

Eph. 4v 27-&#8221;Neither give place to the false accuser&#8221; (tou diabolou) - that is, give no opportunity to any one who would be glad to charge you with offences against the law. And that Paul refers to a human, and not to an invisible, enemy, is proved by the context, where offences are referred to that are objects of notice by the civil magistrate before whom the false-accuser, but not the &#8220;devil,&#8221; would be happy to have the opportunity of taking the believer: &#8220;Let him that stole steal no more; but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.&#8221;

Another passage in which the word diabolos in the Common Version, rendered &#8220;the devil,&#8221; would, if rendered &#8220;false accuser,&#8221; exhibit the sense in its beautiful simplicity, is, &#8220;And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These things saith the first and the last, which was dead and is alive; I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty (but thou art rich), and the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Fear none of those thinks which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried: and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life,&#8221; Rev. 2v 8, 9, 10.

It is quite certain that the &#8220;devil,&#8221; an invisible agent, could not cast them (that is, human bodies) into prison, but a diabolos, a false-accuser, by branding them with charges before a civil magistrate, might obtain their committal: and that such a false-accuser, or such false-accusers, are human beings, is proved by the preceding verse, wherein they are described as &#8220;Jews, and are not, but are the Synagogue, or the assembly, of the adversary&#8221; (tou Satanas - the Translators have left out the tou &#8220;thee,&#8221; which is before &#8220;Satan,&#8221; which latter means adversary).

The passage, therefore, will appear in its clearness when the word diabolos is rendered according to its simple meaning. &#8220;Fear none of these things, which thou shalt suffer: behold, the false-accuser shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried.&#8221;
The Devil, A Biblical Exposition

 

[olderguy]

MEC,

When you say we're all deceived, I almost thought you were going to go into a New Age version of what the truth is. I'm glad you didn't.

I think many people are deceived, but not every single one of us. In the OT, even in the worst of times, God always kept a remnant of people for Himself. I think He still has. But for the most part, I agree with you. I think most people who call themselves Christian are not walking the walk. Maybe we only do as we get older. Maybe we only do when God has taken away from us everything we once had. I really don't know. But maybe if we walk the walk while younger, God won't have to take things away from us when we get older. All I know is I lost everything and everyone I once had and I spend most of my time, each day, contemplating God.

I hope I have finally found God, but if I have, then the things of the world are to mean even less than I used to think. At this point my only desire is for God. That means I desire my life on Earth to end. But it's also because I'm too ill to do anything anymore. But up to a few years ago, when I was still active, I sought to demonstrate the love of God to others. I failed at times, and those times stay in my memory, which gets poorer each year.

I didn't read this whole thread. The people who think MEC is 100% wrong need to look at themselves closer. Pride makes us scream I'M RIGHT. Humility makes us say, Maybe I am wrong?

 

[rick357]

When he has taken our selves from us we can finally see clearly to take the splinter out of our brothers I...because when self is crucified in him his life lives through us....be blessed brother.