The Lord's day.

[spiritandtruth2]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

I gave; you just were not looking.
I will give one here. God call the Sabbath "My holy day" Isaiah 58:13 and in many other places. Once God Himself had done that it is fitting that John or anyone else to call it "the Lord's day". If not why not.
13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
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Look and see that it is not the day of the Lord! It is the Lord's day.
Stop mixing up the issue.

The Sabbath was given to the Israelites as a Day of rest from works, but Jesus brought an end to that, so you keep arguing about something that was done away with.

We as Christian's are under a spiritual Sabbath seven days a week, so we put of the work's of the flesh every day of the year, that is the point.

Now what ever a Christian accepts is a Holy Day that's is his or her choice, but is not required under the "Law of the Christ, it's keeping the Spiritual Sabbath that is required.

Works of the flesh is not a focus true Christians should have, do you get it?

 

[from scratch]

Hebrews 4:1-10

This speaks of God's rest. God swore they couldn't enter in. Yet they observed the 7th day Sabbath rest. So how can they observe this 7th day rest and not enter into God's rest? It obviously has to be 2 different kinds of rest.

 

[from scratch]

Did not God sanctify a day? So why ignore that which God blessed and sanctify fora day that used to worship Baal?
Note also that the bible christains always met on the Sabbath.

Please provide something from the Bible that says Christians met on the Sabbath.

 

[from scratch]

I will like to see the reason John would call Sunday the Lord's day when it was always called the first day by him and everyone else.
Just in case you missed it God call the Sabbath "my holy day".

You will only find such evidence in other writings of the times. There is no verse that indicates the Sabbath is called the Lord's Day. It can be shown with the Bible the word kyriakos is used in relation to the Lord's Supper (we call communion) in 1 Cor 11:20. This kind of terminology was the common form of the day. Such is also found in a document called The Didache also know as The teaching of the 12 Apostles. Such an also be found in literature of the day. It is known that just the word kyriakos was known to indicate the day of the week Christians met for worship.

1 Cor 16 also shows Christians meeting on the first day of the week to put aside an offering into the treasury and not their own house or piggy bank. Churches had a treasury in those days. No church that I have ever heard of refuses to take and offering on the day of worship or requires its attendees to bring such on a different day.

Frogster already quoted a text that translates the first day of the week as Sunday and not one of the Sabbaths (weekly Sabbath). That text also incorrectly says in their house. The treasury wasn't in their house. Besides if they kept it in their house it would still have to be collected when Paul came. Paul had no intention going to every man's house for the collection.

I'd be very happy to pursue this farther.

 

[from scratch]

"Scratch" you would never accept such an argument from me, why do you expect that it would be accepted from you?
Please, if that is all you have you have nothing. Any honest person would tell that and I believe that you know that too.

I'm very interested in the truth. If you're putting on I'm wrong, prove it by stating the truth supported by the Bible.

 

[from scratch]

The law here is not referring to the content of the ten commandments but rather how we approach God and how we view ourselves before God. This is the whole context of Galatians. We are not to draw our approval before God through the law. If we use the law as a means to stand before God it will lead to bondage but if we use the law to define godly love then there is life.

Really? Then why is violation of the God given law sin and punishable by eternal separation? What then is purpose of keeping the law? Isn't it to appeal/please to God? Remember God is going to repulse violators with eternal separation (hell).

 

[from scratch]

To me we enter into relationship with God through Christ. Entering into this relationship with God is based on a righteousness that comes from Christ. Once we enter in we are to abide in that righteousness through a rightly related heart towards God.

1 John 3:20-22 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.

This does not mean we are perfect in obedience but we are to be perfect as it relates to our heart towards God. What I mean by this is that our desire is to be holy as God is holy but we don't always do what pleases God and when this happens our heart becomes broken and contrite. God will not despise and broken or contrite heart, 1 John 1:9. The confession of 1 John 1:9 is not to change God's heart towards us but the cleans us from all the guilt and condemnation that comes from sin. Sin hardens our heart towards God not God's heart towards us. If you know the Sabbath is the seventh day and understand what it represents and how to honor it in light of the spirit of the Law and you don't that can harden the heart over time.

Would you kindly identify the bolded black in your quote.

I think they are identified in v 23 - And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

One must be able to sort out the pronouns properly. This was a problem to me for years.

 

[from scratch]

God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; - Acts 17:24

And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; - Acts 17:26

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: - Acts 17:30

Now, please read, Exodus 20:8-11, even specifically vs. 11.

Then, if you will, read, Deuteronomy 4:5,6,7,8; Isaiah 42:6, 49:6; Matthew 5:14; 1 Kings 10:1,6,7,8,24; Ecclesiastes 12:13,14.

After considering these, please look again at Acts 17:24,26,30, and recompare to Acts 4:24, 14:15,16.

Then finally, after looking at these passages, read, Romans 7:7,9 and 1 John 3:4.

Deut 5:1-3 stops you stone cold.

And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
3 The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

 

[from scratch]

This is either being desperate or just plainly being ridiculous.
You have laid the basic for the refusal of the idea that John could mean the Sabbath because he previously called it the Seventh day.
I then made the observation that Sunday was previously called the first day, so that you are in the same position with your claim of John referring to Sunday.
I further stated that God called the Sabbath "my holy day" and you call that admittance? To what? Maco gave a list of times God called the Sabbath His day. You must deny this at all cost. What will it cost you to admit that John was in the Spirit on the Sabbath? What did it cost Paul to admit that Jesus was the son of God? Will you die?

No sir. Please read my question again. I asked why John changed from Sabbath to Lord's Day when he always referred to the 7th day as the Sabbath.

 

[from scratch]

Please! on the basic of your own argument. You have no point on John referring to Sunday. The same foundation you use to refute that John was talking about the Seventh day plainly defeats the Sunday position you hold. A blind man saw that 2 million miles away.

I asked you first for evidence of your claim. Finding none you asked me to prove mine hoping I can't. This isn't a valid defense. It is skirting the question before you and changing the issue.

 

[from scratch]

Which was John pushing in calling the seventh day "the Lord day"?

Neither because John wasn't calling the 7th day Sabbath the Lord's Day.

 

[from scratch]

Where in EGW would you find any such statement? Have I quoted EGW?
Is not the fact that God says it is "My Holy day" good enough?
God never even asked or suggested that Sunday be a day of the slightest significance and we say that it is "the Lord's day". On the other hand God says that the Sabbath is " His holy day" Consecrated to Him, Blessed and sanctified by Him, and we insist that it can not be "the Lord day".
Can no one see something wrong with that?

So where then does this idea John is referring to the Sabbath day with the phrase Lord's Day come from? It certainly is the Bible.

 

[from scratch]

You have persisted in negating the Sabbath but have not given a concrete account as to what Rev, 1:10 is. Show what it is and why.
You are obviously against the Sabbath. so show why the Sabbath could not be called "the Lord day". Note that it is not a case of supporting or denying the present validity of the Sabbath but giving reasons why John could not mean the Sabbath.

I see no concrete evidence to the contrary. It's your idea. So why don't you support it?

I don't think it's so much being against the Sabbath as it is being against the requirement to keep the law for salvation.

 

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The preblem is not getting it from another book it is relating it directly to the issue.
Quoting as he did does not state that " the Lord's day" was Sabbath or Sunday or the day of the Lord. That is the point. Show what John would have meant and stop address what Paul said without tying it in the the text in question.

I think you're asking for evidence to support something and offer no believable evidence to support your position except attacking something else. It is evident you have no evidence for your position at this point.

 

[Frenchfrye]

I have been studying Revelation chapter1 and of course came across verse 10.
I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

Here John does not explain what he means by the Lord's day but a look at the Greek shows: Kyriakos (kü-rē-ä-ko's) meaning belonging to the Lord /related to the Lord.
Most of us christians accept without question that this refers to Sunday. I was listening to Kay Arthur of Precept Ministries sometime ago and she said that it meant Sunday and that she would give the evidence for it, but I never heard her evidence.
It there any biblical support for assuming that the Lord's day is Sunday? I have seen none, not one!
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all of the disciples kept the Sabbath, Sunday entered after they all had died

 

[from scratch]

I certainly did not say nor in any way imply that the day of the Lord was a Sabbath or that the Lord was coming on a Sabbath. You need to stick to the facts. I am offended by the misrepresentation.
Take the time to understand what is being said, please!
There are three views that I have noted so far. John is taking about the day of the Lord, the Sabbath or Sunday. Which do you support if any?
With an answer I can address your position and certainly I would like you to address my position as stated, not as you may assume.

OK. It's dark and can't work outside. So I've been reviewing this thread. Don't you hate it? Indeed you haven't to this point equated the of the Lord with Lord's Day. So I owe you an apology for mixing you up with other pro sabbatarians.

But the deal is you haven't come up with any support for your idea either after 20 something pages. Why? Will a detailed supporting post be forth coming?

 

[from scratch]

I gave; you just were not looking.
I will give one here. God call the Sabbath "My holy day" Isaiah 58:13 and in many other places. Once God Himself had done that it is fitting that John or anyone else to call it "the Lord's day". If not why not.
13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Here the day is plainly called the Sabbath day. It isn't called the Lord's Day. There isn't one shred of any passage to support Lord's Day found in the Old Testament.

 

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The term is "the Lord's day" . There is no reference to the "day of the Lord as the Sabbath.

Agreed.

 

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all of the disciples kept the Sabbath, Sunday entered after they all had died

No sir. Apostles were still alive at least to 100 AD or so. John felt it was important to identify the Lord's Day and not the 7th day Sabbath he was worshipping God on. And he was still a natural blood line Jew and disciple of Jesus prior to the cross.

 

[Standing Up]

No sir. Apostles were still alive at least to 100 AD or so. John felt it was important to identify the Lord's Day and not the 7th day Sabbath he was worshipping God on. And he was still a natural blood line Jew and disciple of Jesus prior to the cross.

John wouldn't have been identifying the Lord's Day as Sunday for any reason having to do with Easter.

John observed the 3-day sequence as it floated each year from day to day.

Passover-14 of Nisan
Unleavened bread-15
First fruit-16