The Lord's day.

[maco]

I will like to see the reason John would call Sunday the Lord's day when it was always called the first day by him and everyone else.
Just in case you missed it God call the Sabbath "my holy day".

Sweet!

 

[Elder 111]

No. You are under a strong delusion. All days are days the Lord has made. The 7th day Sabbath is a day the Lord set apart, and it is a special day, binding in the covenant with Israel (adopted as a tradition or custom for all to gather in one place such as a synagogue, only during the Babylonian captivity, never before, but nowhere commanded).

It is NEVER called "the Lord's day" anywhere in the scriptures and certainly in none of the ones you have posted...this is eisegesis not exegesis. The first day, the day of the resurrection of Christ, became known as the Lord's day and was taught to be such, by the Apostles (who I believe know better than you) to all those they appointed as leaders in the churches they founded.

This is bore out by the fact that no matter where there was a local church and no matter which Apostle founded it, they all taught the same doctrine, and all who write tell us that the day of the resurrection is the Lord's day...a first or eighth day following the 7th day Sabbath (not replacing it) and "Sunday" or the day of the sun, has NOTHING to do with it (that it merely coincidental since Rome ruled the empire and called it that). But I am always confused by modern Sabbaterians in this regard, if Sabbath keeping be so important to you, why do you violate the Torah regarding it?

Paul

Where did you find this claim that the apostles call Sunday the Lord's day? No one has made that claim.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by from scratch

I'd love to see Elder 111's reason John suddenly calls the Sabbath the Lord's Day while everywhere else when he talks about the 7th day Sabbath he uses the word Sabbath.
​

I will like to see the reason John would call Sunday the Lord's day when it was always called the first day by him and everyone else.
Just in case you missed it God call the Sabbath "my holy day".

Did Jesus or Paul ever refer to that? I can't recall.............

http://www.christianforums.com/t7607243/
How and why we keep the Sabbath holy...

Just a different perspective to consider...

“Contrary to the claims of some today, Christians are not required to worship on the Sabbath day. It, like the other Old Covenant holy days Paul mentions, is not binding under the New Covenant. There is convincing evidence for that in Scripture.

First, the Sabbath was the sign to Israel of the Old Covenant (Ex. 31:16-17; Neh. 9:14; Ezek. 20:12).

Exodus 31:16-17 The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.'"

Nehemiah 9:14 You made known to them your holy Sabbath and gave them commands, decrees and laws through your servant Moses.

Ezekiel 20:12 Also I gave them (the Israelites) my Sabbaths as a sign between us, so they would know that I the LORD made them holy.

Because we are now under the New Covenant (Heb. 8), we are no longer required to keep the sign of the Old Covenant.

Second, the New Testament nowhere commands Christians to observe the Sabbath.

Third, in our only glimpse of an early church worship service in the New Testament, we find the church meeting on Sunday, the first day of the week (Acts 20:7).

Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.

Fourth, we find no hint in the Old Testament that God expected the Gentile nations to observe the Sabbath, nor are they ever condemned for failing to do so. That is certainly strange if He expected all peoples to observe the Sabbath.

Fifth, there is no evidence of anyone’s keeping the Sabbath before the time of Moses, nor are there any commands to keep the Sabbath before the giving of the law at Mount Sinai.

Sixth, the Jerusalem Council did not impose Sabbath keeping on the Gentile believers (Acts 15) .

Seventh, Paul warned the Gentiles about many different sins in his epistles, but never about breaking the Sabbath.

Eighth, Paul rebuked the Galatians for thinking God expected them to observe special days (including the Sabbath) (Gal. 4:10-11).

Gal. 4:10-11 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

Col. 2:16-17 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. (Sabbath day is singular; according to Greek scholars the KJV incorrectly translated it as plural in “an effort to transliterate the Aramaic sabbathah.” -A. T. Robertson, noted Greek scholar, and eminent Baptist scholar and professor). These (including the Sabbath) are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Ninth, Paul taught that keeping the Sabbath was a matter of Christian liberty (Rom. 14:5).

Romans 14:5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

Tenth, the early church fathers, from Ignatius to Augustine, taught that the Old Testament Sabbath had been abolished and that the first day of the week (Sunday) was the day when Christians should meet for worship. That disproves the claim of some that Sunday worship was not instituted until the fourth century.
- John MacArthur, Colossians & Philemon New Testament Commentary

Comments to support #10 can be included upon request

God bless,

H.

.

 

[maco]

when the galatians started to observe the jewish calendar, that had sabby, Paul said he wasted his time on them...the foolish galatians that got duped by the false teachers, getting them under sabbath. 4:10-11.

Read the context...

These people Paul was talking to were without God and were worshiping things that were not gods and practicing all kinds of pagan things and days but then they came to God but then decided to turn back to all those same pagan things.

Galatians 4:8-11 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods. But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.

Paul is not calling the Sabbath these days they were practicing prior to coming to God and then turning back to them. I would like to say it was probably Christmas, Easter, 40 days of Lent, Halloween and so on but I can't prove it but it would fit with mainline church today.

 

[Elder 111]

Here is the new covenant in action.

Notice how the Pharisees were drawing principles of (stoning) from the Old Covenant. Then notice how Jesus applies the grace of the New Covenant (no condemnation) but then also notice how Jesus says, "Go, and sin no more".

John 8:1-11 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?” This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear. So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?” She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”

If this broken woman were to sin again she would be face to face with this verse.

Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more.

Isn't God good? He is trying to make us like His Son without killing us.

So God was bad in the OT and good in the NT? Sabbath was bad, so it was removed from the NT?
Explain!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Frogster

do i get stoned for gathering sticks on it, like the guy in numbers 15, the law was one, numerous verse show that...do we keep sabby the right way, or do we select just what laws we want?

where does it say no stoning for the offense?
​

Originally Posted by maco

Here is the new covenant in action.

Notice how the Pharisees were drawing principles of (stoning) from the Old Covenant. Then notice how Jesus applies the grace of the New Covenant (no condemnation) but then also notice how Jesus says, "Go, and sin no more".

​

So God was bad in the OT and good in the NT? Sabbath was bad, so it was removed from the NT?
Explain!

How was it removed in the NT/NC



.

 

[from scratch]

Sweet!

Yes sir it is sweet to refuse to answer a question and introduce something else. This is an admittance John isn't calling the 7th day Sabbath the Lord's day. Every time John talks about the 7th day he calls it the Sabbath. So why the change?

 

[from scratch]

Where did you find this claim that the apostles call Sunday the Lord's day? No one has made that claim.

In the Bible it is Rev 1:10 unless you can provide a reason John has switched terms in reference to the 7th day.

 

[Elder 111]

Can someone explain to me, why it is that the Lord call the Sabbath "My holy day", "My Sabbath", "My holy Sabbath" a "Sabbath to the Lord", and still it is impossible for it to be called the "the Lord's day". I will like this explained.
Normally if something is claimed by someone it is OK to say that it is their. The house of John. John's house. "My holy Sabbath day blessed and sanctified by Me, God. Then term "the Lord's day" would be fitting to so describe that day. If not why not?

 

[from scratch]

Read the context...

These people Paul was talking to were without God and were worshiping things that were not gods and practicing all kinds of pagan things and days but then they came to God but then decided to turn back to all those same pagan things.

Galatians 4:8-11 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods. But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.

Paul is not calling the Sabbath these days they were practicing prior to coming to God and then turning back to them. I would like to say it was probably Christmas, Easter, 40 days of Lent, Halloween and so on but I can't prove it but it would fit with mainline church today.

Paul isn't addressing pagan practices. It is common knowledge the problem in the early church is the Jewish proselytizers. It is the reason for the Jerusalem council. The evidence this is the problem is also addressed very pointedly in chapters 3 and 5.

 

[from scratch]

So God was bad in the OT and good in the NT? Sabbath was bad, so it was removed from the NT?
Explain!

No it wasn't removed from the NT. There is no evidence it ever was a part of the NT.

Jeremiah says the New Covenant isn't according to the then current covenant.

 

[Elder 111]

In the Bible it is Rev 1:10 unless you can provide a reason John has switched terms in reference to the 7th day.

"Scratch" you would never accept such an argument from me, why do you expect that it would be accepted from you?
Please, if that is all you have you have nothing. Any honest person would tell that and I believe that you know that too.

 

[from scratch]

Can someone explain to me, why it is that the Lord call the Sabbath "My holy day", "My Sabbath", "My holy Sabbath" a "Sabbath to the Lord", and still it is impossible for it to be called the "the Lord's day". I will like this explained.
Normally if something is claimed by someone it is OK to say that it is their. The house of John. John's house. "My holy Sabbath day blessed and sanctified by Me, God. Then term "the Lord's day" would be fitting to so describe that day. If not why not?

You're free to call it anything you wish. The Bible however never refers to the 7th day Sabbath as the Lord's day. You still can't or won't provide any reason why John changes names if indeed he's referring to the 7th day Sabbath.

 

[from scratch]

"Scratch" you would never accept such an argument from me, why do you expect that it would be accepted from you?
Please, if that is all you have you have nothing. Any honest person would tell that and I believe that you know that too.

You must be desperate. I've never seen any thing remotely supporting your borrowed idea. I'm wondering why this is. I think you're obfuscating/skirting the issue. I asked first. So quit stalling.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Can someone explain to me, why it is that the Lord call the Sabbath "My holy day", "My Sabbath", "My holy Sabbath" a "Sabbath to the Lord", and still it is impossible for it to be called the "the Lord's day". I will like this explained.
Normally if something is claimed by someone it is OK to say that it is their. The house of John. John's house. "My holy Sabbath day blessed and sanctified by Me, God.
Then term "the Lord's day" would be fitting to so describe that day. If not why not?

Was the Passover considered a type of sabbath?
That is when Josephus says Titus encompassed Jerusalem.
Just curious

Matt 24:19
"Woe yet to those in belly having and to those suckling in those the days! 20 Be ye praying yet that no may be becoming the flight of ye of winter neither a Sabbath/sabbatw <4521>"

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

*snip*


The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.
At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival and the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers...........




.

 

[maco]

Was the Passover considered a type of sabbath?
That is when Josephus says Titus encompassed Jerusalem.
Just curious

Matt 24:19
"Woe yet to those in belly having and to those suckling in those the days! 20 Be ye praying yet that no may be becoming the flight of ye of winter neither a Sabbath/sabbatw <4521>"

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

*snip*


The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.
At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival and the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers..........

.

Read lev. 23 the Passover was not a sabbath.

 

[pshun2404]

Where did you find this claim that the apostles call Sunday the Lord's day? No one has made that claim.

I never said this. I said they TAUGHT the day Christ rose from the dead (which was a first day, irregardless of Rome calling it Sunday) "the Lord's day".

 

[Frogster]

Here is the new covenant in action.

Notice how the Pharisees were drawing principles of (stoning) from the Old Covenant. Then notice how Jesus applies the grace of the New Covenant (no condemnation) but then also notice how Jesus says, "Go, and sin no more".

John 8:1-11 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, they said to Him, &#8220;Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?&#8221; This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear. So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, &#8220;He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.&#8221; And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, &#8220;Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?&#8221; She said, &#8220;No one, Lord.&#8221; And Jesus said to her, &#8220;Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.&#8221;

If this broken woman were to sin again she would be face to face with this verse.

Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more.

Isn't God good? He is trying to make us like His Son without killing us.

so, do i get stoned for picking up sticks? Stop fusing covenants, and please answer my qustion, you can't just pick-n- choose...are you abolishing the old cov, as you try to bind people to an old cov law? Wha?

Here is text, you're wrong..and paaaleeesee, he was talking about sin, and flesh, not some jewish ceremony in Rom 5:20! lol!


Heb 2:2 For since the message declared by angels proved to be reliable, and every transgression or disobedience received a just retribution,


Heb 10:28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

Do I sin if i do not keep sabbath? Yes or no?

Soooo..if I continually work on Sabby, knowing the law, am I in sin? yes or no?
Would the woman still be commiting adultery if she did that again?

Is Jesus not following the law, according to the verses above?

What do I do, keep some laws, do like some sda folk, pick food laws, ignore retribution laws, keep sabby, ignore feasts, but????

 

[Frogster]

So God was bad in the OT and good in the NT? Sabbath was bad, so it was removed from the NT?
Explain!

col 2:16, the doctrinal death blow to sabby folk.....

 

[Frogster]

Read the context...

These people Paul was talking to were without God and were worshiping things that were not gods and practicing all kinds of pagan things and days but then they came to God but then decided to turn back to all those same pagan things.

Galatians 4:8-11 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods. But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.

Paul is not calling the Sabbath these days they were practicing prior to coming to God and then turning back to them. I would like to say it was probably Christmas, Easter, 40 days of Lent, Halloween and so on but I can't prove it but it would fit with mainline church today.

no way, the judaizers wer pushing law, look at the direction they were headed in...


4:21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law?


Gal 5:3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.

prove this post wrong...were they headed in 2 directions, paganism and judaism??