Saved Only by Grace?

[MWood]

There are many verses that clearly state that we are saved by grace, not of works, that salvation is the gift of God. Yet other verses in the Bible seem to go against this... I'm really confused.

For example:
18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
1 Timothy 6: 18-19.


To me this sounds like you need to do good works to lay hold of eternal life.


Or:
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Verses from James 2



So my questions is, how much works do yo have to have with your faith in order to be justified?



I'm confused...

There is only one work that you can do that will be excepted by God! Being a good Ambassador for Jesus. Your witness for Jesus are the only works that you can do to have rewards stored up in Heaven. Read and study all the letters of the Apostle Paul. He alone explains all of this better than anyone else in the Holy Bible. Then you will be well equipted to be that good witness.

 

[Bella Vita]

There is an order it should be belief before behavior basically God changes our hearts, saves us, and this changes our fruit or works. Once we love and understand God we want to do his work and we want to be used by him for his glory.

Many of us get caught up in one or the other we get so hung up on the belief that we forget about the behavior. Or we get so caught up in the behavior we forget about the belief. You need both and in the correct order and this is what scripture is talking about.

 

[Hammster]

There is an order it should be belief before behavior basically God changes our hearts, saves us, and this changes our fruit or works. Once we love and understand God we want to do his work and we want to be used by him for his glory.

Many of us get caught up in one or the other we get so hung up on the belief that we forget about the behavior. Or we get so caught up in the behavior we forget about the belief. You need both and in the correct order and this is what scripture is talking about.

Yep.

For this reason also, since the day we heard this, we haven’t stopped praying for you. We are asking that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding, so that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to Him, bearing fruit in every good work and growing in the knowledge of God. (Colossians 1:9, 10 HCSB)

 

[P0ntifex]

Many Baptists believe that faith only is sufficient.

 

[OzSpen]

Many Baptists believe that faith only is sufficient.

So what do you believe is sufficient for salvation?

Oz

 

[P0ntifex]

So what do you believe is sufficient for salvation?

Oz

I personally believe that we are saved by faith and good works.

 

[now faith]

This passage on the debate I have always found interesting:

Revelation 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

The phrase I would not blot his name,implies their name was placed there to begin with.

As Christ said ye must be born again,unless all people start with their name in the book I could not see past the age of accountability being sinless to already have their name in the Lambs book of life.

 

[OzSpen]

I personally believe that we are saved by faith and good works.

Are you basing this on the teaching of your Roman Catholic Church? How do you respond to the content of Ephesians 2:8-9,

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God— not the result of works, so that no one may boast (NRSV).

Those two verses seem to refute your view when it states that we are saved through faith and not as the result of works. How do you respond to the content of Eph. 2:8-9?

Oz

 

[P0ntifex]

Are you basing this on the teaching of your Roman Catholic Church? How do you respond to the content of Ephesians 2:8-9,

Those two verses seem to refute your view when it states that we are saved through faith and not as the result of works. How do you respond to the content of Eph. 2:8-9?

Oz

I also believe to be saved we must be baptized.

 

[OzSpen]

I also believe to be saved we must be baptized.

That's a red herring fallacy.

You did not answer my question to you:

Those two verses [Eph 2:8-9] seem to refute your view when it states that we are saved through faith and not as the result of works. How do you respond to the content of Eph. 2:8-9?

Oz

 

[Bella Vita]

I also believe to be saved we must be baptized.

That's because you are Catholic of course you believe in those things. This is a Baptist forum and you really aren't suppose to make comments like that in here. Your purposely starting a fight.

There is a whole lot of your doctrine I disagree on, but I don't wanna fight with you do I won't go into it.

 

[P0ntifex]

Those two verses seem to refute your view when it states that we are saved through faith and not as the result of works. How do you respond to the content of Eph. 2:8-9?
Oz

You may use Ephesians 2:8-9 as evidence for faith alone, the passage actually supports the doctrine of saved by grace through faith and works.

If we closely read this verse, it actually shows we are saved by Grace.
“For by Grace you have been saved” As soon as certain Christians see the words 'through faith', they assume and interpret this means through faith alone, we are saved. Being Catholic, I actually believe in this passage, Christians have been saved by Grace through faith (not alone) that comes from God, and everyone should not boast that we are saving ourselves through good works.

Many Christians also tend to take this passage out of context, adding the 10th verse would help us understand, it reads:

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. (Ephesians 2:8-10).

In the context of the 10th verse, the passage shows that we are saved in order to perform good works. Though these are not works that end up gaining our salvation, but the works of the Holy Spirit that God performs through us, under his grace, and without these we are not justified as shown elsewhere in scripture.

 

[Rhamiel]

it is against the rules to debate against a denominations teachings in their own subform
if you want to debate you can go to General Theology

 

[Heisluv]

How are people who debate so strongly going to get along with each other in Heaven?

 

[Legionwrex]

There will be no denominations in Heaven. Only Christians.

 

[OzSpen]

How are people who debate so strongly going to get along with each other in Heaven?

When perfection reigns, it will be a doozie of a time!

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

There will be no denominations in Heaven. Only Christians.

And there'll be no Arminians, Calvinists, Dispensationalists, Covenant theologians, pre-trib, post-trib, amill, cessationists, charismatics, annihilationists, Sabbatarians, etc.

Oz