The books of Hebrews and Revelation prove the unchangeableness of God's Holy Law. (2)

[from scratch]

???

Ok I'll let you play that way.

 

[VictorC]

"We have God's promise to us "Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more" in the present tense, and the reason God gave us this promise seems to elude you."

Just about all this post is using straw-man arguments. I am not arguing about such things. Is it you do not want to see what I am really saying? It must then just be a platform for what you want to say.

Yes, you are arguing such things - it seems that you don't remember that what I wrote was in response to your claim that sin had to come to an end:

NO. You are making fulfilment mean something else, other than what I explained it to mean. Is all fulfilled? Sin must come to an end, it is in the Bible.

The reason we have God's promise to never remember our sin stems from the obvious reason that He knows that we still sin. And, we are going to continue in sin until we're taken out of the flesh. What I wrote wasn't a 'straw-man argument'; it soundly refuted a claim you made without Biblical support.

And, that's the way that your post continues - filled with denials of what claims you've made, and failing to understand how Scripture addresses these claims. Just look at your own responses:

Lawless deeds he does not bother to remember in those of us who are really redeemed, they are dealt with in Christ.

I have not said anything that was contrary.

I never said it would never be fulfilled. You just don't want to see the other understanding of it. It just does not pass away.

You do not want to see what is meant with fulfilled, it is not the same as passed away.

I have only confessed the gospel of Christ here, so I don't know what you trying to say.

I am nor sure what is asked. We do profit in some things now in Christ. There is more for our hope.

There is no other 'understanding' to what Jesus plainly stated: His intent to fulfill the Law and the Prophets. I even linked the definition for the Greek pleroo rendered as 'fulfill' in Matthew 5:17 for you in a much earlier post. It passed by without comment. It conveys the message of consummating or completing the Law and the Prophets, and this same thought is found in Romans 10:4 where it says "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes". The context this comes from is a wonderful contrast between righteousness by the Law and righteousness by faith: "For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame"".

I even invited you to explore the similarity between what Jesus and Paul both taught. Review my post again:

I am not saying it wasn't. I was just saying how it was in Jesus Christ. But I am not reversing the word order for the other meaning. Till heaven and earth pass away means nothing of God's word passes away first, inclusive of Law and Prophets.

Your post becomes confusing when you make comments like these, which don't reflect either what Jesus stated nor what I posted. I fully affirm the reliability of the law as a record we can draw on, just as Paul does from Romans 3:31 through much of chapter 4, where the author refers to the Law 430 years before the covenant from Mount Sinai existed to show how Abraham believed God's ability to deliver on His promises, and it was accounted to Abraham for righteousness.

But you're attaching a meaning to 'passing away' that isn't germane to this.

When a prophecy is fulfilled, that completes it (consistent with the meaning of the Greek pleroo used in Mathew 5:17). The prophecy is finished and no longer predicts an event in the future.
The same is true with the Law.
Read on...

Fulfillment, which includes the reconciliation, but that for the redeemed, is not the same meaning as termination, the old covenant giving way to the new was doing away with the shadows of the true substance, in Christ there was fulfillment of the sacrifice, the priests, and making clean that finished what there was for it in the old covenant. But this does not apply to those who are not redeemed, who remain in their sin under the consequences named in the Bible.

Refer to what I wrote in my earlier post, as you omitted the pertinent Scripture quotes:

The rite of atonement is a fulfillment of the Law that reconciles the entire congregation to God. Are you saying that this hasn't been accomplished in Jesus Christ? As Hebrews 9:15 says,
And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Our transgressions have already been redeemed from the first covenant, which was the Law. That is the primal fulfillment Jesus accomplished. He is no longer a Mediator of the first covenant, which He took away for the reason the two aren't compatible with each other: He takes away the first that He may establish the second. (Hebrews 10:9)

Once our transgressions under the first covenant have been redeemed, the pertinent Law has been completed: it is no longer able to impute sin to us, because we are no longer able to transgress the law. In effect, the law has lost its jurisdiction over God's redeemed children.

For fun sometime, compare what Jesus taught Peter according to Matthew 17:24-26 with Paul's comments in Galatians 4:1-7. Both of these passages affirms the limited jurisdiction of a given law (Jesus uses the example of the limited scope of the power to levy taxes). Both of these passages show that the law doesn't have jurisdiction over the King's children (or the Heir, in Paul's epistle). God's redemption changed how we are accounted, becoming God's adopted children, and no longer under the Law given exclusively to the children of Israel. Paul summarizes the Gospel in two verses, Galatians 4:4-5: But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

The fulness of time was the Law's fulfillment, that placed the tenure of the Law over God's adopted children in the past tense.

Instead of perceiving how Jesus Christ plainly expressed His intent to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, you've introduced a catch-22 scenario impossible to get out of: He won't fulfill anything until after the earth melts in fervent heat. Redemption becomes a mythological concept you have not acknowledged, and you refuse to answer my questions regarding how you're legally accounted as the child of.

I found this interesting claim you made elsewhere:

I am not Jewish, and do not say gentiles should become Jewish.

Now that's the ultimate straw-man: an admission that you never received the covenant Law from Mount Sinai. Your relationship is that as a Gentile estranged by the Law during its tenure, as Ephesians 2:11-16 says we were in the past tense. I provided a link for this passage; please do not ignore it again.

We aren't getting anywhere with the circular reasoning and horrible memory retention. It is tedious to the point that clarity affirms we aren't getting anywhere. I don't buy into the catch-22 you've applied to what Jesus said, and I accept what He says at face value.

 

[Stryder06]

I think the atonement for us all was completed the day of the resurrection. Read the record. During the day Jesus ascended into heaven and presented His blood to our Father and came back and allowing others to touch Him.

The sanctuary is a core piece needed to understand what is being talked about in Hebrews, and when it comes to Christ's sacrifice. Without that understanding we'll continue to be at odds here.

 

[from scratch]

The sanctuary is a core piece needed to understand what is being talked about in Hebrews, and when it comes to Christ's sacrifice. Without that understanding we'll continue to be at odds here.

Maybe some of it. I don't think 7:12 or 8:6-13 for instance does.

I think you're really talking about the sanctuary doctrine (used to be called the IJ) and not the sanctuary.

 

[Stryder06]

Maybe some of it. I don't think 7:12 or 8:6-13 for instance does.

I think you're really talking about the sanctuary doctrine (used to be called the IJ) and not the sanctuary.

I really wish you'd stop thinking I was working some type of hiden agenda. I'm am talking just about the sanctuary. If I wanted to talk about the IJ I would simply do that. The scripture says "Thy way O Lord is in the sanctuary." There's a reason why I keep saying that you should go back and study that.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I really wish you'd stop thinking I was working some type of hiden agenda. I'm am talking just about the sanctuary. If I wanted to talk about the IJ I would simply do that. The scripture says "Thy way O Lord is in the sanctuary." There's a reason why I keep saying that you should go back and study that.

Y'all need to come out of the worldly Sanctuary and into the heavenly one.

Hebrew 9:
1 It had, indeed, then (even the first tabernacle) ordinances of service, also a worldly sanctuary,
2 for a tabernacle was prepared, the first, in which was both the lamp-stand, and the table, and the bread of the presence -- which is called `Holy;'
3 and after the second vail a tabernacle that is called `Holy of holies,'



.

 

[from scratch]

I really wish you'd stop thinking I was working some type of hiden agenda. I'm am talking just about the sanctuary. If I wanted to talk about the IJ I would simply do that. The scripture says "Thy way O Lord is in the sanctuary." There's a reason why I keep saying that you should go back and study that.

And what version are you using. I searched several and didn't find your quote. I notice you also didn't give a verse reference. Why?

 

[Stryder06]

And what version are you using. I searched several and didn't find your quote. I notice you also didn't give a verse reference. Why?

It's Psalms 77:13

And I messed up, it's "O God" not "O Lord"

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It's Psalms 77:13

And I messed up, it's "O God" not "O Lord"

Yepperz.
It is "Elohiym", not "YAHWEH"


13 Thy ways, O Elohiym, are holy.
What El' is so great as our Elohiym?http://www.biblestudytools.com/psalms/passage.aspx?q=psalms+77:13-14#cr-descriptionAnchor-1

430 'elohiym el-o-heem' plural of 433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God;
occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative:--angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.


.

 

[Rev Randy]

I really wish you'd stop thinking I was working some type of hiden agenda. I'm am talking just about the sanctuary. If I wanted to talk about the IJ I would simply do that. The scripture says "Thy way O Lord is in the sanctuary." There's a reason why I keep saying that you should go back and study that.

Your agenda is not hidden. You are open and clear about your agenda.

 

[Leuko Petra]

So sorry to inform you Moses doesn't agree with you according to Deut 5. In the NT Paul and James both say the Ten commandments are the law.

Please re-read what was stated, thank you:

Yes, the Ten Commandments are the Moral Law of God.

What was stated is that the Ten Commandments are not the 'Old Covenant'. The Old Covenant is found in Exodus 19 and Hebrews references it directly.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7752117-49/#post63984011

You have an incorrect assumption in thinking that the Ten Commandments = the Old Covenant when they do not.

Please read Deuteronomy 5 more closely. See:

"The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. " Deuteronomy 5:2

...but when was it made? See Exodus 19:

I agree that God commanded Israel to "perform" the Ten Commandments, based upon their covenant that Israel had already made with God in Exodus 19, with Moses being the mediator between God and Israel, please see Exodus 19:3-8, etc

Moses goes up as Mediator to speak upon the behalf of Israel to God:

"And Moses went up unto God, ..." Exodus 19:3

God then speaks unto Moses and declares unto Moses what Moses shall say unto them, he [Moses] being the Mediator, the go between for the making of a Covenant:

"... and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;" Exodus 19:3

God gives evidence of His power to be able to perform His side of the covenant He is about to make with Israel, which was not made with any of their fathers beforehand [Hebrews 8:9]:

"Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and [how] I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself." Exodus 19:4

God then speaks what Israel is to do in their side of the covenant agreement:

"Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth [is] mine:" Exodus 19:5

"And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel." Exodus 19:6

What words? The words given in Exodus 19:4-6.

God said [basically], If they obey the voice of the LORD, then He will fulfill His promises to them and make them a "peculiar [purchased] people" unto Himself.

Moses, as Mediator between God and Israel, then takes those words unto the Leaders , the Elders, of Israel, the ones with the power of the covenant making:

"And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him." Exodus 19:7

Then the people all answer together, in their half of the covenant agreement,

"And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. ..." Exodus 19:8

Therefore, God said, "If...then..."

The peoples Israel said, "All that the LORD hath spoken [past tense] we will do."

Notice, that they said that they would keep their half of the covenant, and without any assistance from God. They said, "We will do." But did they? Obviously not, and not even for very long... golden calf incident.

However, Moses, again as Mediator, takes the "promise" of the people Israel, to fulfill their side of the covenant agreement, back unto God.

"... And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD. " Exodus 19:8

That is the "Old Covenant". Based upon the faulty promises [Hebrews 8:8, "finding fault with them"] of the people Israel. God's promises never fail.

All of that was even 3 days [Exodus 19:9-17] before the awesome events upon Mt. Sinai in God speaking and writing His Ten Commandments.

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the LORD." Exodus 19:9

Did God need Moses to Mediate between God and man when God spoke the Ten Commandments aloud with His own voice, from Heaven to all the peoples Israel? or was Moses already at the base of the mountain with the peoples, which when hearing the voice of God for themselves [Exodus 20:22] feared for their very existences [Exodus 20:18-19]...?

God said, that He would write "My Laws", the very same Ten Commandments into the heart. Old Covenant was made with faulty promsies by the peoples Israel, New Covenant is made with/upon God's never failing promises.

What are these "My Laws"? Scripture declares them... even in the same Book of Jeremiah and elsewhere. Let us see this, if any are interested.

...

Now, if all would please consider this specific point again, for it was not directly responded to [shortened; substitute supposed equative, "The Ten Commandments, the Old Covenant" for "law"], but instead other texts along the same lines as the others were cited [and we may come to these in a moment],

"Do we then make void the [the Old Covenant] through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the [The Old Covenant]. Romans 3:31"

...now please re-read Romans 3:31 using your own substitution... and see if it makes any sense at all. I also want you to read Romans 9:4 and see ther clear delineation:

Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises; Romans 9:4

Notice, "the covenants" [plural] and [in addition to] the "giving of the law", a totally distinct thing from "the covenants" made with any peoples.

 

[from scratch]

It's Psalms 77:13

And I messed up, it's "O God" not "O Lord"

Thanks. Is there a version that says O Lord?

 

[from scratch]

Please re-read what was stated, thank you:

Yes, the Ten Commandments are the Moral Law of God.

What was stated is that the Ten Commandments are not the 'Old Covenant'. The Old Covenant is found in Exodus 19 and Hebrews references it directly.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7752117-49/#post63984011

You have an incorrect assumption in thinking that the Ten Commandments = the Old Covenant when they do not.

Please read Deuteronomy 5 more closely. See:

"The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. " Deuteronomy 5:2

...but when was it made? See Exodus 19:

I agree that God commanded Israel to "perform" the Ten Commandments, based upon their covenant that Israel had already made with God in Exodus 19, with Moses being the mediator between God and Israel, please see Exodus 19:3-8, etc

Moses goes up as Mediator to speak upon the behalf of Israel to God:

"And Moses went up unto God, ..." Exodus 19:3

God then speaks unto Moses and declares unto Moses what Moses shall say unto them, he [Moses] being the Mediator, the go between for the making of a Covenant:

"... and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;" Exodus 19:3

God gives evidence of His power to be able to perform His side of the covenant He is about to make with Israel, which was not made with any of their fathers beforehand [Hebrews 8:9]:

"Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and [how] I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself." Exodus 19:4

God then speaks what Israel is to do in their side of the covenant agreement:

"Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth [is] mine:" Exodus 19:5

"And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel." Exodus 19:6

What words? The words given in Exodus 19:4-6.

God said [basically], If they obey the voice of the LORD, then He will fulfill His promises to them and make them a "peculiar [purchased] people" unto Himself.

Moses, as Mediator between God and Israel, then takes those words unto the Leaders , the Elders, of Israel, the ones with the power of the covenant making:

"And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him." Exodus 19:7

Then the people all answer together, in their half of the covenant agreement,

"And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. ..." Exodus 19:8

Therefore, God said, "If...then..."

The peoples Israel said, "All that the LORD hath spoken [past tense] we will do."

Notice, that they said that they would keep their half of the covenant, and without any assistance from God. They said, "We will do." But did they? Obviously not, and not even for very long... golden calf incident.

However, Moses, again as Mediator, takes the "promise" of the people Israel, to fulfill their side of the covenant agreement, back unto God.

"... And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD. " Exodus 19:8

That is the "Old Covenant". Based upon the faulty promises [Hebrews 8:8, "finding fault with them"] of the people Israel. God's promises never fail.

All of that was even 3 days [Exodus 19:9-17] before the awesome events upon Mt. Sinai in God speaking and writing His Ten Commandments.

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the LORD." Exodus 19:9

Did God need Moses to Mediate between God and man when God spoke the Ten Commandments aloud with His own voice, from Heaven to all the peoples Israel? or was Moses already at the base of the mountain with the peoples, which when hearing the voice of God for themselves [Exodus 20:22] feared for their very existences [Exodus 20:18-19]...?

God said, that He would write "My Laws", the very same Ten Commandments into the heart. Old Covenant was made with faulty promsies by the peoples Israel, New Covenant is made with/upon God's never failing promises.

What are these "My Laws"? Scripture declares them... even in the same Book of Jeremiah and elsewhere. Let us see this, if any are interested.

...

Now, if all would please consider this specific point again, for it was not directly responded to [shortened; substitute supposed equative, "The Ten Commandments, the Old Covenant" for "law"], but instead other texts along the same lines as the others were cited [and we may come to these in a moment],

"Do we then make void the [the Old Covenant] through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the [The Old Covenant]. Romans 3:31"

...now please re-read Romans 3:31 using your own substitution... and see if it makes any sense at all. I also want you to read Romans 9:4 and see ther clear delineation:

Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises; Romans 9:4

Notice, "the covenants" [plural] and [in addition to] the "giving of the law", a totally distinct thing from "the covenants" made with any peoples.

It does seem to say by the English that is past tense. That is God had spoken. The definition says "to speak." So I do wonder upon reading more than verse 8 if it really doesn't mean all the Lord (God) says we will do. It seems to me that you imply God had finished speaking. I just can't buy that upon reading verse 9 alone.

Deut repeats the covenant made at Horeb. This includes the Ten Commandments.

Did you miss or ignore that semi-colon in Roman 9:4? I would hold with the rules of English that makes it a list or two different groups of people. Why this occurs in English I'll never understand unless it is a short cut way to say something. So few people understand English. If that semi-colon weren't there I'd say you have a point.

It does say adoption which says to me non-Jews (Israeli) are included in the group of covenants. Which covenant includes the adopted? Only the New Covenant the way I read the Bible. See Eph 2.

What substitution would you suggest is the one I'd make in Rom 3:31? Are you trying to say the Christian is obligated to the law? No way!!!! Not according to Jer 31, Heb 8 or the historical record of Acts.

 

[Leuko Petra]

...Are you trying to say the Christian is obligated to the law? No way!!!! Not according to Jer 31, Heb 8 or the historical record of Acts.

Brother, God's New Covenant is that by His promises that He would write the Very Moral Law, The Ten Commandments, upon the heart of man, restoring him [us] to the image of God...

...The scripture clearly states "My Law", speaking of God's very Law, the Ten Commandments.

Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no. Exodus 16:4

Now therefore, O LORD God of Israel, keep with thy servant David my father that which thou hast promised him, saying, There shall not fail thee a man in my sight to sit upon the throne of Israel; yet so that thy children take heed to their way to walk in my law, as thou hast walked before me. 2 Chronicles 6:16

[[Maschil of Asaph.]] Give ear, O my people, [to] my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth. Psalms 78:1

If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; Psalms 89:30

My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments Proverbs 3:1

For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law. Proverbs 4:2

Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye. Proverbs 7:2

Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart [is] my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings. Isaiah 51:7

Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, [even] the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it. Jeremiah 6:19

And the LORD saith, Because they have forsaken my law which I set before them, and have not obeyed my voice, neither walked therein; Jeremiah 9:13

Then shalt thou say unto them, Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the LORD, and have walked after other gods, and have served them, and have worshipped them, and have forsaken me, and have not kept my law; Jeremiah 16:11

And thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD; If ye will not hearken to me, to walk in my law which I have set before you, Jeremiah 26:4

But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jeremiah 31:33

They are not humbled [even] unto this day, neither have they feared, nor walked in my law, nor in my statutes, that I set before you and before your fathers. Jeremiah 44:10

Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed [difference] between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them. Exekiel 22:26

[Set] the trumpet to thy mouth. [He shall come] as an eagle against the house of the LORD, because they have transgressed my covenant, and trespassed against my law. Hosea 8:1

I have written to him the great things of my law, [but] they were counted as a strange thing. Hosea 8:12

Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Genesis 26:5

And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? Exodus 16:28

And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; [and] they shall judge it according to my judgments: and they shall keep my laws and my statutes in all mine assemblies; and they shall hallow my sabbaths. Exekiel 44:24

For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israelafter those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: Hebrews 8:10

This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; Hebrews 10:16

...even as it is cited in the book of Hebrews:

For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Hebrews 8:8

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. Hebrews 8:9

For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: Hebrews 8:10

And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. Hebrews 8:11

For the other parts of Hebrews 8, see also Psalms 25:7; Isaiah 43:25; Hebrews 10:16-17.

This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; Hebrews 10:16

Who is the "them"? It is "the house of Israel" and "the house of Judah".

And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Hebrews 10:17

Who is the "their"? See above... and for remembrance, there is still the books of record... we still have a Great High Priest ministering, completing that which was begun so long ago

Come to understand...

Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. Deuteronomy 10:16

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. Deuteronomy 30:6

Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench [it], because of the evil of your doings. Jeremiah 4:4

 

[robinvanpersie]

Brother, God's New Covenant is that by His promises that He would write the Very Moral Law, The Ten Commandments, upon the heart of man, restoring him [us] to the image of God...

...The scripture clearly states "My Law", speaking of God's very Law, the Ten Commandments.

Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no. Exodus 16:4

Now therefore, O LORD God of Israel, keep with thy servant David my father that which thou hast promised him, saying, There shall not fail thee a man in my sight to sit upon the throne of Israel; yet so that thy children take heed to their way to walk in my law, as thou hast walked before me. 2 Chronicles 6:16

[[Maschil of Asaph.]] Give ear, O my people, [to] my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth. Psalms 78:1

If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; Psalms 89:30

My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments Proverbs 3:1

For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law. Proverbs 4:2

Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye. Proverbs 7:2

Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart [is] my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings. Isaiah 51:7

Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, [even] the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it. Jeremiah 6:19

And the LORD saith, Because they have forsaken my law which I set before them, and have not obeyed my voice, neither walked therein; Jeremiah 9:13

Then shalt thou say unto them, Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the LORD, and have walked after other gods, and have served them, and have worshipped them, and have forsaken me, and have not kept my law; Jeremiah 16:11

And thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD; If ye will not hearken to me, to walk in my law which I have set before you, Jeremiah 26:4

But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jeremiah 31:33

They are not humbled [even] unto this day, neither have they feared, nor walked in my law, nor in my statutes, that I set before you and before your fathers. Jeremiah 44:10

Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed [difference] between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them. Exekiel 22:26

[Set] the trumpet to thy mouth. [He shall come] as an eagle against the house of the LORD, because they have transgressed my covenant, and trespassed against my law. Hosea 8:1

I have written to him the great things of my law, [but] they were counted as a strange thing. Hosea 8:12

Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Genesis 26:5

And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? Exodus 16:28

And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; [and] they shall judge it according to my judgments: and they shall keep my laws and my statutes in all mine assemblies; and they shall hallow my sabbaths. Exekiel 44:24

For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israelafter those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: Hebrews 8:10

This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; Hebrews 10:16

...even as it is cited in the book of Hebrews:

For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Hebrews 8:8

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. Hebrews 8:9

For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: Hebrews 8:10

And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. Hebrews 8:11

For the other parts of Hebrews 8, see also Psalms 25:7; Isaiah 43:25; Hebrews 10:16-17.

This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; Hebrews 10:16

Who is the "them"? It is "the house of Israel" and "the house of Judah".

And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Hebrews 10:17

Who is the "their"? See above... and for remembrance, there is still the books of record... we still have a Great High Priest ministering, completing that which was begun so long ago

Come to understand...

Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. Deuteronomy 10:16

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. Deuteronomy 30:6

Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench [it], because of the evil of your doings. Jeremiah 4:4

Brilliant.

I find it interesting that many boast Jeremiah 31 or Hebrews 8 without realizing that "My law" in verse 33 is the same "Law of God" throughout the "Old Testament".

 

[Stryder06]

Your agenda is not hidden. You are open and clear about your agenda.

Not sure if that was a compliment or not

 

[Stryder06]

Thanks. Is there a version that says O Lord?

"O Lord" is how I paraphrase it when repeating it to myself. That's why I said i messed up.

 

[Stephen Kendall]

Ah yes I've noticed this very thing here in GT - Satan gets into our heads, if you open a door for him, and tries to use human reasoning as a platform for our faith.

As far as scenarios go I live in reality and not ideological life. The only peace I've found in relationships is withdrawal and seclusion. I've got an overbearing neighbor that is great except his constant cry that I become him. I'm very delighted in not having accepted his advice. I'd be broke and begging. I finally had to tell him not to come back.

Good that you didn't become your neighbor. The Gospel isn't about following the leader, but about being yourself. The relationships of Christians that are truly Christian, is with their Father as they are to him, unique and quite varied. I would never want you to be like me, but I would like you to be yourself and abundantly, even free of evil, able to do your own thing, be it not enslaving you into shame or wrong. My thinking is not one for others. I am way too thorough and complicated to wish such a burden on others. My nature makes it hard for me to work at times. I force myself to be simpler and just get the job done. When I tried to figure out, for my next mission trip, what I really believed in in Christianity, it took about a year to figure out Trinity alone (I definitely don't believe in it). There are many persons who do, so why would I want them to change. Their faith is personal and between them and their Father. Each day on Earth is filled with learning and growing while enjoying the comfort of knowing and trusting in my Father. The one blessing for me, the over complicated guy, is that when you believe in something it was from doing your homework (all of it). There is sort of a peace knowing that you gave it your all to discover what you believe in. I don't care to debate, for God has accepted others that believe quite differently than myself.

The power of hope and belief is the game changer in being able to discipline ourselves, but that hope and belief has to have been cemented in permanent sincere commitment. I would suggest doing your homework. The reason that I am a follower of Christ is that I seem to have born that way, however I resisted this for many years. I don't know what doubt is, but I do know what running away is. I have heard people speak about there being no God for the reason that evil happens everywhere, but the way that I see it is that the making of a pie has to go through many changes. The apples are killed and cooked, but that is how its done. To make faith to me takes the sufferings and evils of the world with endurance holding fast to the only love and light that can exist in these circumstances, and yet to live in peace through it all. Followers of Christ do make it through without sinning and losing their faith (if they truly have heard Jesus and followed him). There are many Anti-Christians who claim Christ. They mislead people about what being a follower of Christ is. Yet, no one is perfect. I should not go on a witch hunt to condemn weak or false Christians, instead I should truly be a follower of Christ and obey him.

I wish you only a full life and the great strength of God's hope and pathway through Jesus. Be honest with yourself, just be sure that you do your homework and be quite sincere in your efforts (by the way, college instructors were wary of me in their classes, one told me to teach the class myself since I seem to know more than him (one of the by-products of doing your homework completely)). I found it best not to correct an instructor, just don't listen to them too closely.

Doing your homework is simply checking it out before accepting it. You should excel in your faith, if you have developed sincere commitments instead of just believing whatever you are told.

 

[from scratch]

Brother, God's New Covenant is that by His promises that He would write the Very Moral Law, The Ten Commandments, upon the heart of man, restoring him [us] to the image of God...

...The scripture clearly states "My Law", speaking of God's very Law, the Ten Commandments.

Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no. Exodus 16:4

Now therefore, O LORD God of Israel, keep with thy servant David my father that which thou hast promised him, saying, There shall not fail thee a man in my sight to sit upon the throne of Israel; yet so that thy children take heed to their way to walk in my law, as thou hast walked before me. 2 Chronicles 6:16

[[Maschil of Asaph.]] Give ear, O my people, [to] my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth. Psalms 78:1

If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; Psalms 89:30

My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments Proverbs 3:1

For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law. Proverbs 4:2

Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye. Proverbs 7:2

Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart [is] my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings. Isaiah 51:7

Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, [even] the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it. Jeremiah 6:19

And the LORD saith, Because they have forsaken my law which I set before them, and have not obeyed my voice, neither walked therein; Jeremiah 9:13

Then shalt thou say unto them, Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the LORD, and have walked after other gods, and have served them, and have worshipped them, and have forsaken me, and have not kept my law; Jeremiah 16:11

And thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD; If ye will not hearken to me, to walk in my law which I have set before you, Jeremiah 26:4

But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jeremiah 31:33

They are not humbled [even] unto this day, neither have they feared, nor walked in my law, nor in my statutes, that I set before you and before your fathers. Jeremiah 44:10

Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed [difference] between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them. Exekiel 22:26

[Set] the trumpet to thy mouth. [He shall come] as an eagle against the house of the LORD, because they have transgressed my covenant, and trespassed against my law. Hosea 8:1

I have written to him the great things of my law, [but] they were counted as a strange thing. Hosea 8:12

Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Genesis 26:5

And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? Exodus 16:28

And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; [and] they shall judge it according to my judgments: and they shall keep my laws and my statutes in all mine assemblies; and they shall hallow my sabbaths. Exekiel 44:24

For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israelafter those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: Hebrews 8:10

This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; Hebrews 10:16

...even as it is cited in the book of Hebrews:

For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Hebrews 8:8

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. Hebrews 8:9

For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: Hebrews 8:10

And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. Hebrews 8:11

For the other parts of Hebrews 8, see also Psalms 25:7; Isaiah 43:25; Hebrews 10:16-17.

This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; Hebrews 10:16

Who is the "them"? It is "the house of Israel" and "the house of Judah".

And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Hebrews 10:17

Who is the "their"? See above... and for remembrance, there is still the books of record... we still have a Great High Priest ministering, completing that which was begun so long ago

Come to understand...

Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. Deuteronomy 10:16

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. Deuteronomy 30:6

Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench [it], because of the evil of your doings. Jeremiah 4:4

My you're windy. Do you live in Chicago?

Unfortunately for your position the Christian aren't obligated to the covenant made with Israel.

I'd sure appreciate it if you'd quit calling me brother. It is obvious we're not and you won't ever soften me up by trying to use this term of endearment.

 

[from scratch]

Brilliant.

I find it interesting that many boast Jeremiah 31 or Hebrews 8 without realizing that "My law" in verse 33 is the same "Law of God" throughout the "Old Testament".

Then what is the law found in verse 31 and 32?