The books of Hebrews and Revelation prove the unchangeableness of God's Holy Law. (2)

[Stryder06]

Doesn't change his knowledge or understanding in the least.

Which makes it all the more sad.

 

[Stryder06]

One glance can tell that Stryder06 isn't using Ellen White's definition of the IJ. He's made up a new doctrine fabricated on his own. Another glance shows that he has been confronted with another Scripture he can't reconcile with the IJ, and he has dispensed with Scripture.

You enjoy talking nonsense. Continue on. You don't even understand what EGW is saying. But again, I'm not trying to convince anyone here.

It'll be such a sweet day when you're no longer mistaken about God's law and the message he conveyed through Sr White.

 

[Stryder06]

Isn't there a verse that says you shall know them by their fruits? If we can why does God have to investigate to know? Does God stand by His promises or not? Does God lie?

1st) God does stand by His promises and He doesn't lie.

2nd) The ability to discern based on fruit has been just about wholly lost among God's people. But what else can you expect when a large percentage has tossed His law to the wayside.

3rd) The IJ isn't for God's benefit because He's unsure.

 

[VictorC]

You enjoy talking nonsense. Continue on. You don't even understand what EGW is saying.

I've quoted straight from her own writings that define the IJ, and I have posted it for you to review at your convenience. The result is that you just contradicted Ellen White's constraints on the IJ, and have replaced it with something else she didn't describe.

A greater problem than this is that your use of Scripture without regard for context leaves you with a contradiction between your interpretation and God's promises to His redeemed. This doesn't even bring the doctrine you're attempting to defend into consideration. A systematic theology will form a model for a belief system and modify that model to reconcile it with everything Scripture has to say. You aren't doing this; you have a model that concludes with Scripture contradicting Scripture, and the model you have is broken at that point. This was explained to you earlier, with no resolution on your part.

But again, I'm not trying to convince anyone here.

You've called everyone and everything 'wrong' while contradicting them. When you decide that God's infallible Word is contradictory and hence wrong, the singular focus of blame comes back to point at yourself.

It'll be such a sweet day when you're no longer mistaken about God's law and the message he conveyed through Sr White.

We already know Ellen White's claim to inspiration is false, in accordance to a litmus test you introduced. I don't regard the promises of God to be wrong, and you can't seem to reconcile the IJ with them.

 

[Stryder06]

I've quoted straight from her own writings that define the IJ, and I have posted it for you to review at your convenience. The result is that you just contradicted Ellen White's constraints on the IJ, and have replaced it with something else she didn't describe.

I've had an atheist post scripture to me trying to prove that it contradicts itself. You trying to post EGW to me trying to disprove her is along the same lines.

A greater problem than this is that your use of Scripture without regard for context leaves you with a contradiction between your interpretation and God's promises to His redeemed. This doesn't even bring the doctrine you're attempting to defend into consideration. A systematic theology will form a model for a belief system and modify that model to reconcile it with everything Scripture has to say. You aren't doing this; you have a model that concludes with Scripture contradicting Scripture, and the model you have is broken at that point. This was explained to you earlier, with no resolution on your part.

Resolution has been give. It simply hasn't been accepted. There is no contradiction of scripture within my theology. I'm sorry that you can't see that, but it's not for me to open your eyes. That's the work of the Holy Spirit. I recently heard testimony of a Baptist preacher who accepted the sabbath truth after 50 or so years of dismissing it as rubbish, and saying the same things about us that you say now. The soil may be hard to till, but eventually, it'll bring forth fruit

You've called everyone and everything 'wrong' while contradicting them. When you decide that God's infallible Word is contradictory and hence wrong, the singular focus of blame comes back to point at yourself.

I've not contradicted a thing. I've just refused to play your game, and so you decided to put words in my mouth. If you're going to run with an explanation of your own devising, that's on you. I can't stop that, and I'm not going to argue. I'll simply state you're wrong, because you are.

We already know Ellen White's claim to inspiration is false, in accordance to a litmus test you introduced. I don't regard the promises of God to be wrong, and you can't seem to reconcile the IJ with them.

No test I introduced did such a thing. It is interesting however that you refuse to admit how your own doctrine stands to said test, while trying to keep the focus on Sr White, who actually does pass it. To the law and the testimony Victor. Ask yourself how the doctrines espouse stand up that test.

And I actually can reconcile the IJ with the promises of God. It all goes together. Again, if you want to understand it, you need to start with the Sanctuary, move to Daniel, and then finish up in Revelation. In between study the pattern of God's dealings with Israel; from bondage to the promise land. It's all there, and only through power of the Holy Spirit, through study and prayer will you be able to see it. The only thing that's going to continue to happen here is exactly what's been happeing for the last several years that I've been here, and that's a bunch of nothing. All this contention, never turning into anything, but a grand party for the Advesary to laugh at.

You want to get serious about it, then that's cool. But if you want to argue just for the sake of arguing, then I'm sorry but I'm not going to participate.

 

[VictorC]

Resolution has been give.

No, it hasn't. You concluded that Scripture contradicts Scripture. How you treat the IJ becomes an external affair at that point. I don't think I need to keep explaining this over and over to you.

 

[Stryder06]

No, it hasn't. You concluded that Scripture contradicts Scripture. How you treat the IJ becomes an external affair at that point. I don't think I need to keep explaining this over and over to you.

More conclusions based on you putting words in my mouth. This would be called bearing false witness. But that seems to be ok around her so long as it's towards an Adventist

I don't think I need to keep explaining this over and over to you.

 

[VictorC]

More conclusions based on you putting words in my mouth. This would be called bearing false witness. But that seems to be ok around her so long as it's towards an Adventist

I don't think I need to keep explaining this over and over to you.

So what you write is wrong, and we shouldn't be concerned about the content of your posts? Okay. I guess that works for me.

 

[Stryder06]

So what you write is wrong, and we shouldn't be concerned about the content of your posts? Okay. I guess that works for me.

You already think that what I write is wrong

It's the reason I limit my participation when speaking with you. Never goes anywhere.

 

[Stephen Kendall]

I thought I asked a very simple question. I don't see how you answered any of it.

I ask again if you're calling the Holy Law of Jesus any part of the law as found in the Pentateuch? You did refer to the 2 golden laws. I assume these 2 laws are what the whole law hangs on. Thus I think you're calling us to follow the law. Is this correct?

I also explained that when I please one I offend anther. How does this apply to loving your brothers and sisters? Are you saying those who aren't pleasing to some really aren't brothers and sisters?

If you know God, he knows you. We were introduced to God through Jesus. As far as it is in your power you live at peace with your brothers and sisters. You don't judge them, especially as to whether they are brothers and sisters. All the Law hinges on Jesus' golden two laws. It is essential that we follow them. He is saying that we must obey the Law of Love to be his. You are loving your way into Heaven and of God's approval. You forgive, you give, you provide, you pray for, you repent, you live a quiet life and the list goes on. It is a law of compassion and caring that separates you from the world. You obey a life giving law versus a judgement law that condemns. The Law makes you alive forever; it is of Christ and his commandments to us, his Gospel.

I am wondering if there aren't huge tares out there that choke big time. I find that some theologies are giant tares that confuse and choke Jesus' Gospel to us. The implications and confusions of the theology of Trinity is one. Law becomes especially confusing with such a concept about God. I have no offense when I believe in Jesus, just as God's beloved son whom shares the absolute spiritual love of his Dad within himself, by the way is what we as Christians must have in us as well. We all must dwell as one. The process is started by our recognition of Jesus, but we must finish it by following him above all. Side stepping into theological confusion which isn't needed or called for, only distracts us helps in the divisions of the churches. Yet, remember no tare can tear you apart from Jesus. I know that you and many are angry with me for what I just said here, but you must realize our place is to serve and help others, not to be known for a knowledge that we were never given, but to be know for a Gospel that we were.

 

[Stephen Kendall]

I also explained that when I please one I offend anther. How does this apply to loving your brothers and sisters?

Paul was all things to all people for the sake of evangelizing, but we can take a little more direct approach. To hold the family of God not in contempt, but in honoring and encompassing, we need to present the Gospel and live it as are in the words of Christ, not as are in theologies or human reasoning. If we then offend when we speak as Christ did and as the Holy Spirit instructs us, they are not offended of us alone, but are really offended of God. Do not irritated ones of different views, life is an opportunity to love and care for others. We don't say to our hearts that we align with God, but we instead do align with him by bending your stature below others and love them.

I believe that life is about finding love and peace in our living, in every moment possible as far as it can be from our efforts. Ego is part of human nature and easily brings us away from the will of God. Why does God not love those with their huge egos? Pretty plain to see. Why does he love those like Moses and bless them, ones with humility and compassion? Just remember that finding peace is not so much an effort of searching for it, but in keeping the peace that is given to you through the Gospel by obeying what Christ has commanded you to. Being Holy by obeying Jesus' Gospel, and nothing to do with men or their theologies, but being righteous and loving, caring, responsible and disciplined, you find the wonderful ability to love and have the peace of Jesus Christ. You become part of God's family.

Satan gets into our heads, if you open a door for him, and tries to use human reasoning as a platform for our faith. Where is faith coming from flesh anyway? Scenarios is one of Satan's favorite tools, as well as his famous saying that it is impossible to be Holy, so why try? Remember, it takes courage to be a true follower of Christ, so don't open any door for him. Look at Paul's position and ministry. I am sure it looked impossible, yet it was extremely fruitful, because he took the courage to always be with Christ no matter what. The scenario of offending some, but not others as a reason to doubt your ability to obey Christ and be known by your love for your brethren is difficult in a lot of situations. Being a Christian isn't easy, yet with Jesus' peace abiding in you, you could easily walk through fire. What is the purpose of you being careful and loving, to have fellowship and love one another? You can. More is done in trying then avoiding fellowships. I sit with all Christians and love to converse with them all. What God moves in my heart to say, I desire to speak and may well do. Yet, I am responsible for my conduct and words. I may be moved to speak, but I traverse these waters and must gently deal with life. I love to speak the things that inspire me and motivates me. My desire is to love and help (even nurture) others to Christ.

Thank you for listening.

 

[from scratch]

Paul was all things to all people for the sake of evangelizing, but we can take a little more direct approach. To hold the family of God not in contempt, but in honoring and encompassing, we need to present the Gospel and live it as are in the words of Christ, not as are in theologies or human reasoning. If we then offend when we speak as Christ did and as the Holy Spirit instructs us, they are not offended of us alone, but are really offended of God. Do not irritated ones of different views, life is an opportunity to love and care for others. We don't say to our hearts that we align with God, but we instead do align with him by bending your stature below others and love them.

I believe that life is about finding love and peace in our living, in every moment possible as far as it can be from our efforts. Ego is part of human nature and easily brings us away from the will of God. Why does God not love those with their huge egos? Pretty plain to see. Why does he love those like Moses and bless them, ones with humility and compassion? Just remember that finding peace is not so much an effort of searching for it, but in keeping the peace that is given to you through the Gospel by obeying what Christ has commanded you to. Being Holy by obeying Jesus' Gospel, and nothing to do with men or their theologies, but being righteous and loving, caring, responsible and disciplined, you find the wonderful ability to love and have the peace of Jesus Christ. You become part of God's family.

Satan gets into our heads, if you open a door for him, and tries to use human reasoning as a platform for our faith. Where is faith coming from flesh anyway? Scenarios is one of Satan's favorite tools, as well as his famous saying that it is impossible to be Holy, so why try? Remember, it takes courage to be a true follower of Christ, so don't open any door for him. Look at Paul's position and ministry. I am sure it looked impossible, yet it was extremely fruitful, because he took the courage to always be with Christ no matter what. The scenario of offending some, but not others as a reason to doubt your ability to obey Christ and be known by your love for your brethren is difficult in a lot of situations. Being a Christian isn't easy, yet with Jesus' peace abiding in you, you could easily walk through fire. What is the purpose of you being careful and loving, to have fellowship and love one another? You can. More is done in trying then avoiding fellowships. I sit with all Christians and love to converse with them all. What God moves in my heart to say, I desire to speak and may well do. Yet, I am responsible for my conduct and words. I may be moved to speak, but I traverse these waters and must gently deal with life. I love to speak the things that inspire me and motivates me. My desire is to love and help (even nurture) others to Christ.

Thank you for listening.

Ah yes I've noticed this very thing here in GT - Satan gets into our heads, if you open a door for him, and tries to use human reasoning as a platform for our faith.

As far as scenarios go I live in reality and not ideological life. The only peace I've found in relationships is withdrawal and seclusion. I've got an overbearing neighbor that is great except his constant cry that I become him. I'm very delighted in not having accepted his advice. I'd be broke and begging. I finally had to tell him not to come back.

 

[from scratch]

You enjoy talking nonsense. Continue on. You don't even understand what EGW is saying. But again, I'm not trying to convince anyone here.

It'll be such a sweet day when you're no longer mistaken about God's law and the message he conveyed through Sr White.

It would be even more wonderful if you where to fully accept God's incredible free gift. It goes by several descriptive names depending on what is actually being discussed.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Ah yes I've noticed this very thing here in GT - Satan gets into our heads, if you open a door for him, and tries to use human reasoning as a platform for our faith.

As far as scenarios go I live in reality and not ideological life. The only peace I've found in relationships is withdrawal and seclusion. I've got an overbearing neighbor that is great except his constant cry that I become him. I'm very delighted in not having accepted his advice. I'd be broke and begging. I finally had to tell him not to come back.

I think the problem is some folks don't even ascribe to human reasoning (their own) instead they blindly have faith in someone else to tell them everything they need to learn about God. As far as others wanting you to be like them it happens a lot and sometimes it is just a form of arrogance other times it is people that do not have comfortable faith finding that if they convince enough people around them what they think is truth it must be truth but when nobody wants to follow them sooner or later they abandon their faith because it profits them nothing.

 

[from scratch]

1st) God does stand by His promises and He doesn't lie.

2nd) The ability to discern based on fruit has been just about wholly lost among God's people. But what else can you expect when a large percentage has tossed His law to the wayside.

3rd) The IJ isn't for God's benefit because He's unsure.

1) Amen!!!

2) People who live under grace that love God don't practice sin. Your only real beef is the 4th commandment you don't fully observe either as has been pointed out to you by a few people.

3) Is it then for the benefit of men? Don't you live in fear wondering if you qualify through keeping the law? I've read enough testimonies of formers to know well what is going on in the SDA organization. I watched the SDA folks hatred poured out on Tall73 and Sophia7 here. So it is a very real thing.

By-the-way when will you know if you've passed the IJ and are worthy to be saved?

 

[Stryder06]

2) People who live under grace that love God don't practice sin. Your only real beef is the 4th commandment you don't fully observe either as has been pointed out to you by a few people.

People who don't keep the sabbath trying to show me that I don't keep it is like Atheists trying to prove to me from the bible that it contradicts itself.

3) Is it then for the benefit of men?

Men and unfallen beings.

Don't you live in fear wondering if you qualify through keeping the law?

Nope.

I've read enough testimonies of formers to know well what is going on in the SDA organization.

You have no idea.

I watched the SDA folks hatred poured out on Tall73 and Sophia7 here. So it is a very real thing.

There has been no hate shown, but a deep concern for a brother gone astray. Sorry that we don't just go "Oh you hopped denominations? Well that's ok".

By-the-way when will you know if you've passed the IJ and are worthy to be saved?

The IJ isn't about knowing if we're worried to be saved. You'd be much better off studying it for yourself than listening to what other people claim it is.

 

[from scratch]

People who don't keep the sabbath trying to show me that I don't keep it is like Atheists trying to prove to me from the bible that it contradicts itself.

Now that is a real cute argument. You're saying I can't understand unless I do. Then the written Word of God is worthless. The only way one can understand the Sabbath is through knowledge acquired by reading God's Word or personal instruction that agrees with God's Word. YOu know maybe one gets a code book upon becoming a sabbatarian. But then I'm not to sure about that either. You haven't been clear in what I don't know (you've been here 4 years) about the Sabbath. When asked questions you avoid any firm answers.

Men and unfallen beings.

Have you got a verse for this?

Nope.

If you say so.

You have no idea.

Oh ballyhoo too!!

There has been no hate shown, but a deep concern for a brother gone astray. Sorry that we don't just go "Oh you hopped denominations? Well that's ok".

Let's say we each see life differently. If it were love it wouldn't have been repulsive.

The IJ isn't about knowing if we're worried to be saved. You'd be much better off studying it for yourself than listening to what other people claim it is.

You're just not very convincing. I've looked at it and the Bible enough to make a permanent decision.

 

[CFTerminator]

I think the problem is some folks don't even ascribe to human reasoning (their own) instead they blindly have faith in someone else to tell them everything they need to learn about God. As far as others wanting you to be like them it happens a lot and sometimes it is just a form of arrogance other times it is people that do not have comfortable faith finding that if they convince enough people around them what they think is truth it must be truth but when nobody wants to follow them sooner or later they abandon their faith because it profits them nothing.

I was wondering if you will post a statement of your denomination's doctrines, so I can take it apart? You are a critic of SDAs who openly share our 28 Fundamental beliefs, but you never seen you post a comprehensive statement of faith?

 

[from scratch]

I was wondering if you will post a statement of your denomination's doctrines, so I can take it apart? You are a critic of SDAs who openly share our 28 Fundamental beliefs, but you never seen you post a comprehensive statement of faith?

Why not start a thread on the subject of church doctrines?

 

[Sophrosyne]

I was wondering if you will post a statement of your denomination's doctrines, so I can take it apart? You are a critic of SDAs who openly share our 28 Fundamental beliefs, but you never seen you post a comprehensive statement of faith?

I am non denominational and even though I belong to a church I don't blindly accept all is doctrinal positions either if it doesn't line up properly with scripture I reject it. Besides I am not the one starting threads demanding people follow their position like you have. I have a right to be a critic of a group whose doctrines are wrong. You seem to have your hands full already defending the rather warped doctrinal positions made by the SDA's.