The black community

[KitKatMatt]

Yes I do.

1. People should be promiscuous as possible, and only homosexual polygamous marriages should be allowed.

2. Every marriage must be required to end in a divorce within 10 years.

3. People should spend all of their money and go into debt so deep, the government has to bail them out.

Do those sound better to you?

You have a very warped view of the world, me thinks...

 

[Lollerskates]

Holy [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]! Do you have any sources that blacks do this at a significantly greater rate than any other ethnicity, or are you just pulling this bigoted comments out of your racist backside?!

And they lived happily ever after?

lol

 

[Cearbhall]

Black people just so happen to experience certain social problems at a higher level than the general population.

How to fix these problems

1. Sexual activity should only in monogamous opposite sex marriage between two Christians.

2. There should be no separation or divorce.

3. People can budget their money better.



This will virtually eliminate the problems of fatherless and poverty.

And how do monogamous same-sex marriages contribute to these social problems?

 

[Ken-1122]

To me, the reason why there are so many specific words for race relations highlights the complexities of the issue as a whole. To paint everyone who behaves/converses ignorantly, prejudiced, or bigoted - and is part of the "race in power" - as a racist. It is highly dismissive, and blanketed to say, so much so that everyone calls each other a racist (White to Black, Black to Latino, Latino to Black, Asian to Latino, etc.) If sociological stipulations aren't applied, the word loses the real deep-rooted hurtful and damaging meaning - its original meaning.

It also means the Ku Klux Klan is not a racist organization because they have no political power.

Ken

 

[Lollerskates]

So, to reiterate, racism is not only about getting a government check, or political power. It is about power period. It is about substantiating your prejudice in a way that represents your position in a power(ful) role. It is not just being able to jail someone of a different race, or killing someone of a different race - because killing someone of the opposite race is just murder if the killing is not a representation of substantiating a prejudice. This is very simple, but is often missed.

So, a group that is able to 1) organize nationally, 2) base the organization on the idea that their particular race is superior to any other race, and 3) uses violence, fear and even legislative power to substantiate this idea makes the organization a racist group.

The KKK is both racist in the most basic dictionary form of the word, and they are sociologically racist. I think it is a little disingenuous to use the KKK as a talking point on [non]racism because they have no "perceived" political power (when in fact, they actually do.) It is especially ignorant when someone responds like this, without understanding what you are responding to - or without actually reading/comprehending it. Sociological stipulations... that is plural: political power... that is [a] singular [stipulation]. Ho hum...

 

[Ken-1122]

The KKK is both racist in the most basic dictionary form of the word, and they are sociologically racist. I think it is a little disingenuous to use the KKK as a talking point on [non]racism because they have no "perceived" political power (when in fact, they actually do.)

I don't know which Country you are from but in the USA the Klu Klux Klan is probably the most hated organizations in this country. For any person attempting to run for a political office; if it were found out that they were a member of the Klan or even had the backing and support of the klan, that would be a surefire recipt for defeat. The Klan no longer have any political power in the USA.

Ken

 

[Lollerskates]

Ku Klux Klan members in United States politics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Texas Officers Fired for Membership in KKK - ABC News

Nebraska Police Officer Fired Over Assocation With KKK-Linked Group | JONATHAN TURLEY

KKK says more cops are Klan members - Orlando Sentinel

German Police Kept Jobs Despite Ku Klux Klan Involvement - SPIEGEL ONLINE (International.)

New KKK cell uncovered in Germany — RT News (International.)

Former KKK leader, mayoral candidate speaks | News | Winter Haven-Lake Wales News

Paul Grant Rogers (June 4, 1921 – October 13, 2008) was an American lawyer and politician from the U.S. state of Florida. A Democrat, Rogers served in the U.S. House of Representatives as the member from Florida's 11th congressional district. He was chairman of Research!America from 1996 to 2005

- Wikipedia (Link here; He was The Grand Dragon - highest rank.)

Robert Byrd: KKK Says Late Senator 'Wasn't A Klansman Long Enough To Get His Sheet Broke In' (Robert Byrd - Longest democratic senator term in office; died while in office, despite his KKK past. I wonder what kind of policy he oversaw.)


See, finding things out after the fact is more damaging than the luxury of "a surefire recipe for defeat." How much of their influence has been in law, police behavior, educational benefits, taxes, drug problems,etc. The clan has plenty of political, economical, legislative and financial power. The ones listed are just the ones that had been caught/found out. If this many had these positions of political, legislative, judicial, or financial power for this long, how many others are in these positions and the public does not know about it?

And, once again, political power is not the only sociological stipulation for determining racism. It just happens to be the most prominent and overt stipulation.

 

[Lollerskates]

Many people in history have forged grand acts of evil simply by convincing people that this evil doesn't exist, or has lost progress - when in fact the public's rejection of said evil(s) work to substantiate, perfect, and hasten these grand acts.

"Only the small secrets need to be protected. The big ones are kept secret by public incredulity" -Marshall Mcluhan

Ignorance is bliss for the men who depend on it to execute their grand plans of evil, disunity or crime.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

(Sorry about the huge picture.)

As in saying that it's not ok to have kids when you're a teen, or to walk out on your kids.

Holy [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]! Do you have any sources that blacks do this at a significantly greater rate than any other ethnicity, or are you just pulling this bigoted comments out of your racist backside?!

This self-righteous indignation is getting boring...

I_Eat_Pie may not have any sources, but I do: although they dropped significantly during the 1990s, in the USA teen pregnancy rates are highest among blacks (although sometimes Hispanics have the highest rate).

(via childtrends.org)​

Similarly black children in the US are the most likely to grow up without a father: as of 2011, 67% of black children live in single-parents households compared with 25% of whites (datacenter.kidscount.org). In fact there are more black children growing up in single-parent households today than there were in the 1960s.

And before you ask - no, nobody is saying that black people are doing badly because they are black. Nobody is claiming racial inferiority is the culprit here.

Now if you think it's racist to point this out and try to address the cause, fine - but the majority of black people are well aware of these problems and are trying to do something about it. It's usually the white users who seem to think they're battling racism by pretending these problems do not exist.

See, finding things out after the fact is more damaging than the luxury of "a surefire recipe for defeat." How much of their influence has been in law, police behavior, educational benefits, taxes, drug problems,etc. The clan has plenty of political, economical, legislative and financial power. The ones listed are just the ones that had been caught/found out. If this many had these positions of political, legislative, judicial, or financial power for this long, how many others are in these positions and the public does not know about it?

And, once again, political power is not the only sociological stipulation for determining racism. It just happens to be the most prominent and overt stipulation.

Forgive me if I've misunderstood your post, but I highly doubt that black people today are being kept down by the Klan.

For one thing, the Klan hate Jews just as much (if not more) than they hate blacks, yet Jewish Americans are among the most successful in the US. If the Klan are somehow intentionally keeping black people from becoming successful, why not the Jews? For another, the social problems black people face are also apparent in other countries such as the UK and France, where the Klan has never had any real influence.

Blaming the Klan or other white supremacist organizations for the problems black people face may have worked 50 years ago, but it does not work today.

 

[Lollerskates]

Forgive me if I've misunderstood your post, but I highly doubt that black people today are being kept down by the Klan.

You have grossly misunderstood my post, unfortunately. The whole exchange leading up to what you are citing had nothing to do with the klan keeping black people down. The insinuation of such was never there.

It also means the Ku Klux Klan is not a racist organization because they have no political power.

Ken

It started here: the strawman argument was that I was (erroneously) asserting that political power is the only socioeconomic qualifier for racism. So, I replied with this:

So, to reiterate, racism is not only about getting a government check, or political power. It is about power period. It is about substantiating your prejudice in a way that represents your position in a power(ful) role. It is not just being able to jail someone of a different race, or killing someone of a different race - because killing someone of the opposite race is just murder if the killing is not a representation of substantiating a prejudice. This is very simple, but is often missed.

So, a group that is able to 1) organize nationally, 2) base the organization on the idea that their particular race is superior to any other race, and 3) uses violence, fear and even legislative power to substantiate this idea makes the organization a racist group.

The KKK is both racist in the most basic dictionary form of the word, and they are sociologically racist. I think it is a little disingenuous to use the KKK as a talking point on [non]racism because they have no "perceived" political power (when in fact, they actually do.) It is especially ignorant when someone responds like this, without understanding what you are responding to - or without actually reading/comprehending it. Sociological stipulations... that is plural: political power... that is [a] singular [stipulation]. Ho hum...

Of course, that was not nearly clear enough, so this comment surfaced:

I don't know which Country you are from but in the USA the Klu Klux Klan is probably the most hated organizations in this country. For any person attempting to run for a political office; if it were found out that they were a member of the Klan or even had the backing and support of the klan, that would be a surefire recipt for defeat. The Klan no longer have any political power in the USA.

Ken

Which, to me, begged the question of how someone could so willingly ignore the incorrect information in a post, especially given the person is insinuating that their residence is the States. Nevertheless, I gave the poster a laundry list of KKK members who have worked as cops, lawyers, senators, presidents, etc. - since his argument was that the "very aware and always socially and politically cognizant American majority" would never allow such a person to run for office. But, of course, it happened scores of times, and it is still happening. I also replied with this:

See, finding things out after the fact is more damaging than the luxury of "a surefire recipe for defeat." How much of their influence has been in law, police behavior, educational benefits, taxes, drug problems,etc. The clan has plenty of political, economical, legislative and financial power. The ones listed are just the ones that had been caught/found out. If this many had these positions of political, legislative, judicial, or financial power for this long, how many others are in these positions and the public does not know about it?

And, once again, political power is not the only sociological stipulation for determining racism. It just happens to be the most prominent and overt stipulation.

We only know of these people because of people diligently working to find this information; there are still possibly as many working in political positions of which we are unaware. Moreover, since the replier stated rather emptily that "The Klan no longer have any political power in the USA," I decided to post this:

Many people in history have forged grand acts of evil simply by convincing people that this evil doesn't exist, or has lost progress - when in fact the public's rejection of said evil(s) work to substantiate, perfect, and hasten these grand acts.

"Only the small secrets need to be protected. The big ones are kept secret by public incredulity" -Marshall Mcluhan

Ignorance is bliss for the men who depend on it to execute their grand plans of evil, disunity or crime.

to highlight the folly in a statement that would dismiss the KKK political power in the USA, when it has reached internationally - and, there are still political figures being fired or called out for having ties with the KKK not even 3 years ago. Again, those that we know of are just the ones we have found information concerning their involment with KKK. There may still be just as many we don't know of with ties to the KKK working in political, social, economic, financial, educational, and judicial positions of power.

Now, with ALL of that said, where is there even an insinuation that this exchange had anything to do with me saying the KKK is keeping black people down? If I have to put in this much work into explaining what I thought was quite clear - and rather verbose (to ensure clarity,) then I think there are some deeper problems than what is being spoken about in this thread.

For one thing, the Klan hate Jews just as much (if not more) than they hate blacks, yet Jewish Americans are among the most successful in the US. If the Klan are somehow intentionally keeping black people from becoming successful, why not the Jews? For another, the social problems black people face are also apparent in other countries such as the UK and France, where the Klan has never had any real influence.

I know this was part of the quote that got a very long response, but I don't think you can compare Jewish success to Black success in any fair way. Do you really think that a people that the States believes are the chosen people (Jews) of God are on an even playing field with the people that have been believed to be an inferior, beastly race good for nothing more than property to be bought, sold, bred and raped whenever (Blacks?) Many people still feel this way, otherwise we wouldn't have the endless Trayvon threads, and the silly race threads - let alone a prison system that is legal slavery - and just so happens to have a huge population of blacks within their walls (because, of course, blacks just commit more crime: its science .)

PLEASE tell me that naivete oozing from your post is a joke. I am not even trying to be insulting - I am serious this is scary. Israel has whole countries wanting to nuke them, yet they are on par (if not better off) with the U.S. - especially since we give them everything: money, weapons, technology, soldiers for contracts, aid - and, their citizens are pretty much guaranteed access to this country. Let me know where you are coming from, so I can prevent carpel tunnel syndrome onset if need be.

And, if you are using a very vanilla example of situations people go through in other countries to somehow equate it to what blacks go through in the States...

First of all, are you Black? Secondly, if you aren't Black, how could you possibly know what it is like to wake up in a country that, for example, thinks your entire race is so flawed that it is the anthropological duty of people who feel they are in a better situation to "fix" you, or at least dialogue on how Blacks can be helped? And, if you are Black, you need to really be Black - not "I'm 1/32 Black because my grandmother's cousin thrice removed was 1/4 Black" type of stuff. No Antebellum American "One-drop rule" Black. You need to look Black, so that you know what it is like to see people follow you in stores, so that your features can be the highlight of every primate-related ignorant joke. You need to have skin like a Black person, so you know what it is like to truly be profiled because of the color of your skin - not just suspicion, but being profiled to the point that you are denied service, access to public areas, harassed by cops, or even murdered. You need to know what it is like to wake up every day and have an anxiety and uncertainty about your life in the country of your residence that many White people in America have the luxury of not experiencing. If you aren't Black, or don't even look Black (with aforementioned features and such,) I respectfully ask that you don't comment on the "plight of the life of a Black person" ANYWHERE in the world - because you would be at a severe empathic, sympathetic, and intellectual disadvantage. You cant just throw out the same hackneyed and regurgitated statistics parroted on the media about "Black crack babies, drugs, and prisons," read a few Toni Morrison books, or Maya Angelou poetry, and figure "I understand black problems in America enough to where I can actually talk about how to 'help' them."

Blaming the Klan or other white supremacist organizations for the problems black people face may have worked 50 years ago, but it does not work today.

This was already stated in an above reply... a very lengthy one. You completely missed the point. Completely. And, how do you know the problems Black people faced 50 years ago, and if this nonexistent "blame game" on the KKK worked 50 years ago? Again, are you Black? Did you have Black relatives who went through this time period? Were you alive 50 years ago, and Black?



It isn't required of you to state your race, but I sure hope you are White - or even Indian, Asian: something other than Black - and this is just a classic case of general ignorance and lack of knowledge (and I mean that in the most sincere, non-abusive way.) Because if you are, in fact, Black then there are other issues going on that reach to the core.

 

[AceHero]

The so called black leaders in this country don't seem to be doing anything.

I'm pretty sure they're actually black.

He's talking about when people wear hoodies on at night and cover their faces, it gives people the impression that they're gonna commit a crime.

I wore hoodies for four years in college, and not once was I shot dead.

Yes, it is. Calling it racist isn´t questioning his good intentions. It just refers to his preconceptions that the issues he´s pointing out are somewhat linked to skin-colour.
Since neither is the issue exclusive to the "black community", nor can the "black community" be reduced to these issues, the thread title gives it away:
He is neither taking a look at the issue (regardless of his racial consideration) and works from there, nor is he taking a look at the "black community" (without reducing it to the issue) and works from there.
He has a priori linked the issue and "the black community" - which reliably prevents him from an unbiased search for the causes of the issue.

He is essentially looking for us to give him the answer he wants to hear.

My family is full of 15+ year police officers on the beat, military officers, medical practitioners, chefs, teachers and engineers/scientists. I am a physicist - graduated from an Ivy. I have plenty of uncles and cousins that have served in the US armed forces. My lineage is a combo of Grand Andamanese, [Asian] Indian, and West Indie. Naturally, all of that aforementioned matters not because my skin is dark brown. Yet, my family highlights how "black" people are not statistics paraded on the 10:00 news. And, we (my parents, grandparents, uncles/aunts, cousins, etc.) are not exceptions to the "rule." You just don't hear much about these type of minority accomplishments.

Kinda like how when missing girls or women become nationwide news stories, they tend to be white.

I could recommend to you a couple of books. Both of these were written by white women in the late 60s:

"Soul Sister," by Grace Halsell. Halsell was born and raised in Alabama. She used drugs to turn her skin black and lived as a black woman for a year, six months in Harlem, NY, and six months in her own home town in Alabama. Interestingly, even though she has some more physically frightening experiences in the south, she saw racism in the north as a more difficult foe to tackle, if because it was more pervasive, more institutional, more endemic, and more amorphous.

The other is "Education of a WASP," by Lois Mark Stalvey. Stalvey writes of her experiences with northern neighborhood and school system racism, beginning when as a rather naive suburban housewife, she tried to help a black schoolteacher move to her own neighborhood.

Also: Black Like Me.

 

[Lollerskates]

Kinda like how when missing girls or women become nationwide news stories, they tend to be white.

What do you mean (I really don't know)?

 

[Gadarene]

What do you mean (I really don't know)?

Missing White Woman Syndrome.

Missing white woman syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

People go missing all the time - not least non-white women. But when it's a white girl who's gone missing HOLY CRAP HOLD THE FRONT PAGE AND SEVERAL OTHER PAGES AS WELL.

 

[Lollerskates]

Missing White Woman Syndrome.

Missing white woman syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

People go missing all the time - not least non-white women. But when it's a white girl who's gone missing HOLY CRAP HOLD THE FRONT PAGE AND SEVERAL OTHER PAGES AS WELL.

Thank you very much for that piece of information. Wow haha it surely postdates my sociology years in university; it is still quite funny (in a very shocking way) to see a phrase had been applied to this phenomenon that most all minorities in the States recognized.

 

[Gadarene]

Thank you very much for that piece of information. Wow haha it surely postdates my sociology years in university; it is still quite funny (in a very shocking way) to see a phrase had been applied to this phenomenon that most all minorities in the States recognized.

At least someone is acknowledging it (better late than never, I guess) but yeah, must be pretty crummy to be on the receiving end of it.

 

[Ken-1122]

Ku Klux Klan members in United States politics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Texas Officers Fired for Membership in KKK - ABC News

Nebraska Police Officer Fired Over Assocation With KKK-Linked Group | JONATHAN TURLEY

KKK says more cops are Klan members - Orlando Sentinel

German Police Kept Jobs Despite Ku Klux Klan Involvement - SPIEGEL ONLINE (International.)

New KKK cell uncovered in Germany — RT News (International.)

Former KKK leader, mayoral candidate speaks | News | Winter Haven-Lake Wales News

- Wikipedia (Link here; He was The Grand Dragon - highest rank.)

Robert Byrd: KKK Says Late Senator 'Wasn't A Klansman Long Enough To Get His Sheet Broke In' (Robert Byrd - Longest democratic senator term in office; died while in office, despite his KKK past. I wonder what kind of policy he oversaw.)


See, finding things out after the fact is more damaging than the luxury of "a surefire recipe for defeat." How much of their influence has been in law, police behavior, educational benefits, taxes, drug problems,etc. The clan has plenty of political, economical, legislative and financial power. The ones listed are just the ones that had been caught/found out. If this many had these positions of political, legislative, judicial, or financial power for this long, how many others are in these positions and the public does not know about it?

People who are secretly members of the Klan may get into power, but the organization itself doesn’t have political power. The reason those people kept their Klan ties secret is because they knew if anyone found out their careers would be in jeopardy

And, once again, political power is not the only sociological stipulation for determining racism. It just happens to be the most prominent and overt stipulation.

Anybody can hate, anybody can be a racist. Political power is not necessary. An attempt to change the definition of words to support an agenda (or what-ever reason) isn't making your point.

Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

It started here: the strawman argument was that I was (erroneously) asserting that political power is the only socioeconomic qualifier for racism. So, I replied with this:

I never said anything like that. I said you were (erroneously) asserting that political power is necessary to be a recist. Anybody can be a racist, power is not necessary. Go back and read what I wrote.

Ken

 

[bibleblevr]

O'Reilly Smacks Down Obama's Race Speech: President Has 'No Clue' How To Combat 'Gangsta Culture' - YouTube

Best ever video! O'Reilly needs to be sainted for that! AMEN

 

[Lollerskates]

People who are secretly members of the Klan may get into power, but the organization itself doesn’t have political power. The reason those people kept their Klan ties secret is because they knew if anyone found out their careers would be in jeopardy

You keep making empty statements. These people that were Klan members (secretively) had political power by definition. The Klan does not have an office building, or central intelligence compound where they are required to be to execute their racism. Do you know what agents are, or contractors? Sure you do; they are hired hands of the U.S. government trained to complete tasks either remotely, or domestically. KKK may convene at a central place, but their sphere of influence is not limited to one single location. You think the longest office-held senator - who happened to have ties with the KKK - would not influence legislation based on his prejudices? You don't think spreading various Klan members through out political offices, executive branches, judicial houses, and financial entities actually means they have no [political] power? Their members are literally infiltrated almost all avenues of power in this country, and overseas.

So, your "recipe for defeat" in terms of the luxury of masses to get information on anyone's background in things like the KKK is moot. Moreover, to think that the masses would be spoon-fed damaging information like a politian's ties to the KKK (when people spend plenty of money burying this material) is asinine.

Anybody can hate, anybody can be a racist. Political power is not necessary. An attempt to change the definition of words to support an agenda (or what-ever reason) isn't making your point.

Ken

Anybody cannot be racist - this is what people understand. Racism is a structure. It is quasi-tangible, because the institutions in which it resides. Prejudice is an abstraction - like feelings of hate. Saying "anybody can be racist" is ignorant of the superlative designation of the term. You wouldn't replace the word "older" for "oldest" right? Why are you replacing prejudice with racism? Saying anyone is racist is an excuse that (in my experience) tends to be a way to alleviate the sting of "white guilt" by being able to equate all other people with a word that described the imperialim, rape, beating, lynching, torturing, breeding, culture-erasing, sinister of their forefathers. White people that understand that they are not racist do not have to hide behind veneers of ignorance, privilege, and guilt - whilst at the same time trying to "help" other races, claiming the best interest at heart.

People "in power" that I have met, who are not racist, tend to be people that can crack a good racial joke (in good taste,) ask candid yet controversial questions without believing they have superior insight on the race in question, and listen. And, as I have said before: I would take a southern racist that will call me a n*gger to my face, rather than people that try to hide their prejudice or racism behind overly intellectualized theses. I just respect people much more who own their prejudice or racism, and don't try to spew circumlocution to distract from their positions.

 

[Lollerskates]

It also means the Ku Klux Klan is not a racist organization because they have no political power.

Ken

It started here: the strawman argument was that I was (erroneously) asserting that political power is the only socioeconomic qualifier for racism. So, I replied with this:

I never said anything like that. I said you were (erroneously) asserting that political power is necessary to be a recist. Anybody can be a racist, power is not necessary. Go back and read what I wrote.

Ken

Well, what other ways can racism occur? You haven't responded to any of the many ways someone can be a racist - besides political power. See, I never said political power is the only qualifier for racism.

So, to reiterate, racism is not only about getting a government check, or political power. It is about power period. It is about substantiating your prejudice in a way that represents your position in a power(ful) role. It is not just being able to jail someone of a different race, or killing someone of a different race - because killing someone of the opposite race is just murder if the killing is not a representation of substantiating a prejudice. This is very simple, but is often missed.

And, you even use a strawman to try and substantiate your facetious reply:

It also means the Ku Klux Klan is not a racist organization because they have no political power.

Now, the bold completely ignores all of the other ways someone could be racist - even if it was true that the KKK has no political power. So, I did read your post; obviously you continue to misread my posts because you seem to cling onto "political" racism, and what qualifies it. Racism is multi-faceted. You saying power has nothing to do with racism is ignorant of the many scholars that have studied these very paradigms in race relations, and would disagree with you vehemently. Oh, and of course the minorities that have to live with it and understand it throughout their lives.

If you want to call Black/Latino/Asian/Indian/Middle Eastern/etc. people doing/saying mean things to white people racism, then please do so on your own accord. But, if you plan on bringing your reasoning and argument on why "everyone" can be a racist to an institute of higher learning - especially sociology - then prepared for intense scoffing, and possible ridicule.